₦airaland Forum

achorladey:
After all no be person wey die them dey resurrect? Dem dey RESURRECT person WEY DEY ALIVE?

Let me get your position clearly on this rapture warever ... Do you believe in bodily catching away of believers to heaven ?

Peacefullove:
Let me get your position clearly on this rapture warever ... Do you believe in bodily catching away of believers to heaven ?

1 Thessalonians 4: 13-17 is contained in the scriptures. Read it.

achorladey:
1 Thessalonians 4: 13-17 is contained in the scriptures. Read it.

I do. But there are varied interpretation , I just want to know which is yours.

Issue 1:

OK. Verse 15 says the living will not precede the dead, . I.e all the dead in Christ will be raised before the living ones.
Some due to this pause reason that it shows the living will have to wait to die too or why can't They all be caught at the same time to finalize the point .. while others think the pause doesn't matter .

Issue 2 from that verse u gave :

Is 1Thess associated with first resurrection ??

Jozzy4:
It's a fact . Show me Rapture in the Bible ?

Am sorry to ask. Do you have any evidence of what your saying?

Peacefullove:
I do. But there are varied interpretation , I just want to know which is yours.

Issue 1:

OK. Verse 15 says the living will not precede the dead, . I.e all the dead in Christ will be raised before the living ones.
Some due to this pause reason that it shows the living will have to wait to die too or why can't They all be caught at the same time to finalize the point .. while others think the pause doesn't matter .

Issue 2 from that verse u gave :

Is 1Thess associated with first resurrection ??

My coming to the thread was not to discuss the VARIED INTERPRETATION most of them FALLS into BORDERLINE SPEC SPEC SPECULATION. Some will tell you the Word RAPTURE don't exist in the scriptures. So? Some will tell and say nothing like RAPTURE but there own explanation of it is not different from those who believe an USE RAPTURE. Assumptions and speculation abound everywhere.

Concerning this...........
Is 1Thess associated with first resurrection ?

CLARIFY the FIRST in front of the RESURRECTION

achorladey:
My coming to the thread was not to discuss the VARIED INTERPRETATION most of them FALLS into BORDERLINE SPEC SPEC SPECULATION. Some will tell you the Word RAPTURE don't exist in the scriptures. So? Some will tell and say nothing like RAPTURE but there own explanation of it is not different from those who believe an USE RAPTURE. Assumptions and speculation abound everywhere.

You have better understanding, then tell it .. You can't really condemn what you have no knowledge about ?

Concerning this...........
Is 1Thess associated with first resurrection ?

CLARIFY the FIRST in front of the RESURRECTION

There are two resurrection according to the holy book , so I just want to know where 1Thess 4:15-17 belong.

Peacefullove:
You have better understanding, then tell it .. You can't really condemn what you have no knowledge about ?



There are two resurrection according to the holy book , so I just want to know where 1Thess 4:15-17 belong.

Oga, I have given what my view on it already, citing 1 Thessalonians 4 : 13 - 17 is part of knowledge just go through the COGNITIVE DOMAIN you will understand.

Don't forget you SAID VARIED INTERPRETATION and I added based on BORDERLINE SPECULATION. The thing remaining is to extend the FRONTIERS of the VARIED INTERPRETATION or BORDERLINE SPECULATION.


Peacefullove: There are two resurrection according to the holy book , so I just want to know where 1Thess 4:15-17 belong.

Achorladey: This made me laugh with your FIRST RESURRECTION earlier. I believe you know what you are DOING. Jesus said John 5:28,29. I will leave it at that.

achorladey:
Oga, I have given what my view on it already, citing 1 Thessalonians 4 : 13 - 17 is part of knowledge just go through the COGNITIVE DOMAIN you will understand.

Don't forget you SAID VARIED INTERPRETATION and I added based on BORDERLINE SPECULATION. The thing remaining is to extend the FRONTIERS of the VARIED INTERPRETATION or BORDERLINE SPECULATION.

You didn't give any view, Okay tell us why the Living would not precede the dead ? That point keep ringing a bell. Why everyone are not caught away together the same time if truly the living go there alive ?

So your view

Peacefullove: There are two resurrection according to the holy book , so I just want to know where 1Thess 4:15-17 belong.

Achorladey: This made me laugh with your FIRST RESURRECTION earlier. I believe you know what you are DOING. Jesus said John 5:28,29. I will leave it at that.

John 5:28,29 is about first resurrection ?

Or are you trying to say am wrong that the holy book teach two ressurection ?

Peacefullove:
You didn't give any view, Okay tell us why the Living would not precede the dead ? That point keep ringing a bell. Why everyone are not caught away together the same time if truly the living go there alive ?

So your view



John 5:28,29 is about first resurrection ?

Or are you trying to say am wrong that the holy book teach two ressurection ?

Did you SEE your "IF"? I said I believe you know what you are DOING. I will CITE John 5:28,29 once more JESUS SAID............


Peacefullove: Or are you trying to say am wrong that the holy book teach two ressurection ?

Achorladey: LOOK UP you will see it clearly JESUS SAID...............

achorladey:
Did you SEE your "IF"? I said I believe you know what you are DOING. I will CITE John 5:28,29 once more JESUS SAID............

The " If " neccesary to provoke thoughts on the point raised. Why are the living not in anyway gonna precede the dead ? What occur during the period of waiting ?

Peacefullove: Or are you trying to say am wrong that the holy book teach two ressurection ?

Achorladey: LOOK UP you will see it clearly JESUS SAID...............

Good u didn't deny holy book taught two resurrection.
Is John 5:28,29 the first or second ?

Peacefullove:
The " If " neccesary to provoke thoughts on the point raised. Why are the living not in anyway gonna precede the dead ? What occur during the period of waiting ?



Good u didn't deny holy book taught two resurrection.
Is John 5:28,29 the first or second ?

Pacefullove: The " If " neccesary to provoke thoughts on the point raised. Why are the living not in anyway gonna precede the dead ? What occur during the period of waiting ?

Achorladey: So that I CAN MERRY GO ROUND with YOU based on PROVOKED ASSUMPTION THOUGHTS and SPECULATION RAISED abi?



Peacefullove: Good u didn't deny holy book taught two resurrection. Is John 5:28,29 the first or second?

Achorladey: You still don't get it I GUESS? Read it again the SEPARATION is there.

Peacefullove:
Let me get your position clearly on this rapture warever ... Do you believe in bodily catching away of believers to heaven ?

This guy is just one of the five brothers of that rich man in Jesus' illustration! Luke 16:19-31

All he wants is the little drop of water to cool his spiritual thirst! Luke 16:24

He goes to the Kingdom Halls for worship, but he's not pleased with the simplicity of God's arrangement just like the Pharisees and Saddusees got irritated at God's arrangement when they found out that there is no other option than becoming followers of Jesus.

So he's hooked up in his own pride and ego, but now trying to justify himself with arguments against the same organization that he has known all his life!

So whenever you're discussing with him, he feels this soothing relief from his spiritual torment but when you refuse to chat with him, he suffers agony within.

That's why Jehovah's organization told us not to have anything to do with such persons, THEY ARE THE APOSTATES!

achorladey:
Pacefullove: The " If " neccesary to provoke thoughts on the point raised. Why are the living not in anyway gonna precede the dead ? What occur during the period of waiting ?

Achorladey: So that I CAN MERRY GO ROUND with YOU based on PROVOKED ASSUMPTION THOUGHTS and SPECULATION RAISED abi?

Until you can explain that point. There is no speculation yet . cos its impossible to criticize what you have no knowledge about.
A point was raised in the verse the living won't precede the dead . your views ?

Peacefullove: Good u didn't deny holy book taught two resurrection. Is John 5:28,29 the first or second?

Achorladey: You still don't get it I GUESS? Read it again the SEPARATION is there.

Young man, Young man, am NOT A FOOL .




" Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, " John 5:28


He said The Hour will come when those in the grave will come out. The word " Hour " shows the entire dead people in this context are coming out are THE SAmE HOUR. This is not separated, it either this entire context belong to first or second ! , so which ?

Peacefullove:
Until you can explain that point. There is no speculation yet . cos its impossible to criticize what you have no knowledge about.
A point was raised in the verse the living won't precede the dead . your views ?



Young man, Young man, am NOT A FOOL .




" Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, " John 5:28


He said The Hour will come when those in the grave will come out. The word " Hour " shows the entire dead people in this context are coming out are THE SAmE HOUR. This is not separated, it either this entire context belong to first or second ! , so which ?

Peacefullove: Until you can explain that point.

Achorladey: okay

Peacefullove: There is no speculation yet.

Achorladey: okay

Peacefullove: cos its impossible to criticize what you have no knowledge about.

Achorladey: What knowledge are you TALKING ABOUT?

Peacefullove: A point was raised in the verse the living won't precede the dead your views ?

Achorladey: Oga what is here to explain?


Peaceful love: Young man, Young man, am NOT A FOOL .

Achorladey: I haven't call you ONE.



Peacefullove: "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, " John 5:28

Achorladey: Yes

Peacefullove: He said The Hour will come when those in the grave will come out. The word " Hour " shows the entire dead people in this context are coming out are THE SAME HOUR. This is not separated, it either this entire context belong to first or second !

Achorladey: How many RESURRECTION did you SEEK FOR? How many RESURRECTION is in the ACCOUNT CITED? Verse 29 Jesus SAID...........

achorladey:
Peacefullove: Until you can explain that point.

Achorladey: okay

Peacefullove: There is no speculation yet.

Achorladey: okay

Peacefullove: cos its impossible to criticize what you have no knowledge about.

Achorladey: What knowledge are you TALKING ABOUT?

Peacefullove: A point was raised in the verse the living won't precede the dead your views ?

Achorladey: Oga what is here to explain?

Why are the dead caught away first ? While the living are waiting , are they expected to die too ?

Peaceful love: Young man, Young man, am NOT A FOOL .

Achorladey: I haven't call you ONE.



Peacefullove: "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, " John 5:28

Achorladey: Yes

Peacefullove: He said The Hour will come when those in the grave will come out. The word " Hour " shows the entire dead people in this context are coming out at THE SAME HOUR . This is not separated, it either this entire context belong to first or second !

Achorladey: How many RESURRECTION did you SEEK FOR? How many RESURRECTION is in the ACCOUNT CITED? Verse 29 Jesus SAID...........

Jesus said and you didn't see the red
Read the Red, Same hour means at the same time ( Not different timing) . This group belong to a single ressurection class, first or second ?

Peacefullove:
Why are the dead caught away first ? While the living are waiting , are they expected to die too ?


Jesus said and you didn't see the red
Read the Red, Same hour means at the same time ( Not different timing) . This group belong to a single ressurection class, first or second ?

Peacefullove: Why are the dead caught away first?

Achorladey: You are now talking, which answer do you want me to give YOU PROVOKED THOUGHTS ASSUMPTION or SPECULATION RAISED. I can just simply tell it is what the Lord himself had arranged so why should go about FEEDING you with ASSUMPTIONS and SPECULATION.


Peacefullove: While the living are waiting, are they expected to die too?

Achorladey: I Thessalonians 4: 13-17 is there with the answer.


Pecefullove: Jesus said and you didn't see the red

Achorladey: I saw it that is why I showed you VERSE 29 read it

Peacefullove: Read the Red, Same hour means at the same time ( Not different timing) . This group belong to a single ressurection class, first or second?

Achorladey: You are making me laugh with YOUR FIRST and SECOND palaver. Two types of RESURRECTION was asked I supplied you John 5:28,29. You are NOW TRYING to FUSE it INTO ONE RESURRECTION by saying it belongs to SINGLE RESURRECTION CLASS. Are people that are RIGHTEOUS and UNRIGHTEOUS in the SAME CLASS?

achorladey:
Peacefullove: Why are the dead caught away first?

Achorladey: You are now talking, which answer do you want me to give YOU PROVOKED THOUGHTS ASSUMPTION or SPECULATION RAISED. I can just simply tell it is what the Lord himself had arranged so why should go about FEEDING you with ASSUMPTIONS and SPECULATION.


Peacefullove: While the living are waiting, are they expected to die too?

Achorladey: I Thessalonians 4: 13-17 is there with the answer.

The point here is evidence prove 1Thesalonians 4:13-17 was a reference to first resurrection , It became a clear fact that those living were also expected to die FAVORING THE DELAY . which you term arrangement

Pecefullove: Jesus said and you didn't see the red

Achorladey: I saw it that is why I showed you VERSE 29 read it

Peacefullove: Read the Red, Same hour means at the same time ( Not different timing) . This group belong to a single ressurection class, first or second?

Achorladey: You are making me laugh with YOUR FIRST and SECOND palaver. Two types of RESURRECTION was asked I supplied you John 5:28,29. You are NOW TRYING to FUSE it INTO ONE RESURRECTION by saying it belongs to SINGLE RESURRECTION CLASS. Are people that are RIGHTEOUS and UNRIGHTEOUS in the SAME CLASS?

That's not two types of ressurection. That some would face judgment and consequently second death proved its not .

Consider this , for first ressurection anyone who have a part cannot experience second death at all . but at John 5:28,29 those who came out or experience that ressurection in that verse will still get to face The second death , ( see also Rev 20:13,14 associated with the same context. ). So apart from timing that's different , the context does not support first ressurection.

Peacefullove:
The point here is evidence prove 1Thesalonians 4:13-17 was a reference to first resurrection , It became a clear fact that those living were also expected to die FAVORING THE DELAY . which you term arrangement



That's not two types of ressurection. That some would face judgment and consequently second death proved its not .

Consider this , for first ressurection anyone who have a part cannot experience second death at all . but at John 5:28,29 those who came out or experience that ressurection in that verse will still get to face The second death , ( see also Rev 20:13,14 associated with the same context. ). So apart from timing that's different , the context does not support first ressurection.

Peacefullove: The point here is evidence prove 1 Thesalonians 4:13-17 was a reference to first resurrection,

Achorladey: Evidence for FIRST RESURRECTION you say? Very fine waiting for EVIDENCE for the SECOND RESURRECTION.




Peacefullove: It became a clear fact that those living were also expected to die FAVORING THE DELAY.

Achorladey: Interesting, so how do we go about the WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN I didn't SEE "EXPECTED TO DIE" here in the 1 Thessalonians under consideration here. Please show the CLEAR FACT.


Peacefullove: which you term arrangement

Achorladey: What the Lord want to do. YES


Peacefullove: That's not two types of ressurection. That some would face judgment and consequently second death proved its not.

Achorladey: So what is the SECOND RESURRECTION?

Peacefullove: Consider this , for first ressurection anyone who have a part cannot experience second death at all . but at John 5:28,29 those who came out or experience that ressurection in that verse will still get to face The second death , ( see also Rev 20:13,14 associated with the same context. ). So apart from timing that's different , the context does not support first ressurection.

Achorladey: SECOND RESURRECTION is what is REQUIRED NOW with EVIDENCE.

achorladey:
Peacefullove: The point here is evidence prove 1 Thesalonians 4:13-17 was a reference to first resurrection,

Achorladey: Evidence for FIRST RESURRECTION you say? Very fine waiting for EVIDENCE for the SECOND RESURRECTION.

Second ressurection - John 5:28,29 some who experience this ressurection will face second death. This doesnt happen in first ressurection.

Peacefullove: It became a clear fact that those living were also expected to die FAVORING THE DELAY.

Achorladey: Interesting, so how do we go about the WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN I didn't SEE "EXPECTED TO DIE" here in the 1 Thessalonians under consideration here. Please show the CLEAR FACT.


Peacefullove: which you term arrangement

Achorladey: What the Lord want to do. YES

You agree 1Thess is first ressurection . it follows that anyone who will rule with Jesus will have to die. Which bring about the DELAY for the living

Your Bible said Its anyone experiencing first ressurection that get to rule with Jesus.

Peacefullove: That's not two types of ressurection. That some would face judgment and consequently second death proved its not.

Achorladey: So what is the SECOND RESURRECTION?

Peacefullove: Consider this , for first ressurection anyone who have a part cannot experience second death at all . but at John 5:28,29 those who came out or experience that ressurection in that verse will still get to face The second death , ( see also Rev 20:13,14 associated with the same context. ). So apart from timing that's different , the context does not support first ressurection.

Achorladey: Simple SECOND RESURRECTION is what is REQUIRED NOW with EVIDENCE.

Answered.

Princewell2012:
Am sorry to ask.

Do you have any evidence of what your saying?

Now I am getting a sense of why you said you took a hiatus from the Religion forum Nairaland and why I should expedite my response to your 3 questions of interest. I have started on it and hopefully you should my response before bedtime tonight. The Spirit of Truth, clearly is something worth having as a Teacher, Ally and Confidant

Jozzy4, without doubt, correctly and clearly, right from the Page 1 start word go, had said that, there is nothing like RAPTURE and to go read the Bible to know there isnt. I'll further chip in that even the word RAPTURE is AWOL in the bible. Princewell2012, you'll never find the word RAPTURE written up anywhere in the Bible

Peacefullove:
Second ressurection - John 5:28,29 some who experience this ressurection will face second death. This doesnt happen in first ressurection.


You agree 1Thess is first ressurection . it follows that anyone who will rule with Jesus will have to die. Which bring about the DELAY for the living

Your Bible said Its anyone experiencing first ressurection that get to rule with Jesus.



Answered.

Have followed your posts on NL. Like the way you do handle points . let me add that 1Corinthians 15 describe first ressurection as ressurection as a Spirit being and a ressurection to immortality , for anyone to claim A ressurection involving unrighteous people is a first ressurection is delusion of the highest order . so unrighteous people will be raised to immortality or what ?

Peacefullove:
Second ressurection - John 5:28,29 some who experience this ressurection will face second death. This doesnt happen in first ressurection.


You agree 1Thess is first ressurection . it follows that anyone who will rule with Jesus will have to die. Which bring about the DELAY for the living

Your Bible said Its anyone experiencing first ressurection that get to rule with Jesus.



Answered.

Peacefullove: Second ressurection - John 5:28,29 some who experience this ressurection will face second death. This doesnt happen in first ressurection.

Achorladey: I just LOOK, I don't know WHEN SECOND DEATH is SYNONYMOUS with SECOND RESURRECTION. That is what I can make up with whatever you POSTED up there.

Peacefullove: You agree 1Thess is first ressurection . it follows that anyone who will rule with Jesus will have to die. Which bring about the DELAY for the living

Achorladey: the WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN didn't say they WILL HAVE TO DIE or states EXPECTED to die. SPECULATION and ASSUMPTIONS begin to PROP UP.

Peacefullove: Your Bible said Its anyone experiencing first ressurection that get to rule with Jesus.

Achorladey: Even if you are NOT a Christian you see the BIBLE as an AUTHORITY in this matter the reason you seek my knowledge concerning what is being DISCUSSED. Inside the FIRST RESURRECTION you posit in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 states WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN and NOT your EXPECTED TO DIE PALAVER. So your "Your Bible said Its anyone experiencing first ressurection that get to rule with Jesus" many other on the same THREAD stated SAME. The MERRY GO ROUND is in PLACE

Peacefullove: Answered


Achorladey: Really?

achorladey:
Peacefullove: Second ressurection - John 5:28,29 some who experience this ressurection will face second death. This doesnt happen in first ressurection.

Achorladey: I just LOOK, I don't know WHEN SECOND DEATH is SYNONYMOUS with SECOND RESURRECTION. That is what I can make up with whatever you POSTED up there.

You need to calm down a bit. I repeat Once a person have a part in first ressurection , they cannot experience second death. But at John 5:28,29 we find many of those ressurected there facing judgement of second death. THIS WONT HAPPEN IF IT WERE FIRST RESSURECTION.

Get it now. So its the second ressurection not first. The evidence lies in the fact that many who have a part in it are still liable to second death.

Peacefullove: You agree 1Thess is first ressurection . it follows that anyone who will rule with Jesus will have to die. Which bring about the DELAY for the living

Achorladey: the WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN didn't say they WILL HAVE TO DIE or states EXPECTED to die. SPECULATION and ASSUMPTIONS begin to PROP UP.

Peacefullove: Your Bible said Its anyone experiencing first ressurection that get to rule with Jesus.

Achorladey: Even if you are NOT a Christian you see the BIBLE as an AUTHORITY in this matter the reason you seek my knowledge concerning what is being DISCUSSED. Inside the FIRST RESURRECTION you posit in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 states WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN and NOT your EXPECTED TO DIE PALAVER. So your "Your Bible said Its anyone experiencing first ressurection that get to rule with Jesus" many other on the same THREAD stated SAME. The MERRY GO ROUND is in PLACE

Peacefullove: Answered


Achorladey: Really?

Merry go round ? So is your Bible contradicting itself when it says Ruling as King and Priest with Jesus for 1000 years is for those having a part in the first ressurection? The wording of that Thessalonians didn't remove the fact that death must occur if so there won't have been any need to raise the dead first , all will be packed at once.

I need to know if your bible was contradicting itself or its your own knowledge forming wall here

CAPTIVATOR:
Have followed your posts on NL. Like the way you do handle points . let me add that 1Corinthians 15 describe first ressurection as ressurection as a Spirit being and a ressurection to immortality , for anyone to claim A ressurection involving unrighteous people is a first ressurection is delusion of the highest order . so unrighteous people will be raised to immortality or what ?

This should explain why it's partakers according to the holy book cannot experience second death .

Peacefullove:
You need to calm down a bit. I repeat Once a person have a part in first ressurection , they cannot experience second death. But at John 5:28,29 we find many of those ressurected there facing judgement of second death. THIS WONT HAPPEN IF IT WERE FIRST RESSURECTION.

Get it now. So its the second ressurection not first. The evidence lies in the fact that many who have a part in it are still liable to second death.





Merry go round ? So is your Bible contradicting itself when it says Ruling as King and Priest with Jesus for 1000 years is for those having a part in the first ressurection? The wording of that Thessalonians didn't remove the fact that death must occur if so there won't have been any need to raise the dead first , all will be packed at once.

I need to know if your bible was contradicting itself or its your own knowledge forming wall here

Peacefullove: You need to calm down a bit. I repeat Once a person have a part in first ressurection , they cannot experience second death.

Achorladey: okay


Peacefullove: But at John 5:28,29 we find many of those ressurected there facing judgement of second death. THIS WONT HAPPEN IF IT WERE FIRST RESSURECTION.

Achorladey: What I seek earlier with EVIDENCE is what is THE SECOND RESURRECTION. I have showed you two type of RESURRECTION as recorded in John 5:28,29 you said CLEARLY its SINGLE CLASS RESURRECTION. You went ahead to ask FIRST OR SECOND? That's why I have BEEN LOOKING at YOU to tell me your SECOND RESURRECTION with evidence.

Peacefullove: Get it now. So its the SECOND ressurection not FIRST.

Achorladey: You mean when Jesus states in John 5: 28,29 he was TALKING about the SECOND RESURRECTION. Did I get you correct?


Peacefullove: The evidence lies in the fact that many who have a part in it are still liable to second death.

Achorladey: interesting, never knew Jesus was TALKING about the SECOND RESURRECTION here. Will I say another ASSUMPTIONS, SPECULATION or DIMENSION into the WHOLE SCENARIO here.

Peacefullove: Merry go round ?

Achorladey: My Merry go round here means going with YOU into CIRCLES of ASSUMPTIONS, SPECULATION and the latest entry DIMENSION(with John 5:28,29 being SEEN as second RESURRECTION and not the FIRST.


Peacefullove: So is your Bible contradicting itself when it says Ruling as King and Priest with Jesus for 1000 years is for those having a part in the first ressurection?

Achorladey: I haven't said so.

Peacefullove: The wording of that Thessalonians DIDN'T REMOVE the fact that DEATH MUST occur if so there won't have been any need to raise the dead first , all will be packed at once.

Achorladey: the WE WHICH WE ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN LIKEWISE didn't look like a STATEMENT that SAYS DEATH must OCCUR. The reason I said its the LORD arrangement.

Pecefullove: I need to know if your bible was contradicting itself or its your own knowledge forming wall here

Achorladey: I will repeat, I haven't said ANYTHING about the bible contradicting itself and my knowledge is NOT the OBSTACLE here, I told you from the START about BORDERLINE SPECULATION, ASSUMPTIONS what you called VARIED INTERPRETATION

achorladey:
Peacefullove: You need to calm down a bit. I repeat Once a person have a part in first ressurection , they cannot experience second death.

Achorladey: okay


Peacefullove: But at John 5:28,29 we find many of those ressurected there facing judgement of second death. THIS WONT HAPPEN IF IT WERE FIRST RESSURECTION.

Achorladey: What I seek earlier with EVIDENCE is what is THE SECOND RESURRECTION. I have showed you two type of RESURRECTION as recorded in John 5:28,29 you said CLEARLY its SINGLE CLASS RESURRECTION. You went ahead to ask FIRST OR SECOND? That's why I have BEEN LOOKING at YOU to tell me your SECOND RESURRECTION with evidence.

Okay here is John 5:28,29

New American Standard Bible

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,

and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Point 1: All are raised at the same time . ( making them belong to same category ) First means before Others.

Point number 2. The designation ressurection of life and ressurection of judgement is about their Deeds after been ressurected NOT deeds before they die . So for a long time to pass before this classification is done shows they all belong to a single ressurection class.

In lay mans term all of those mentioned at John 5:28,29 are raised same hour and after a specific period of time labelled for life or judgement.

Point 3 : That the people in this ressurection could be labelled as deserving of judgement of second death proved further this ressurection wasn't first. In first, second death cannot over power you.

Peacefullove: Get it now. So its the SECOND ressurection not FIRST.

Achorladey: You mean when Jesus states in John 5: 28,29 he was TALKING about the SECOND RESURRECTION. Did I get you correct?

Yes.

And the evidence lies in the Fact that anyone having a part in the first ressurection cannot experience second death , Agree ?


That's not what's happening at John. 5:28,29 . if it were first ressurection none of those raised can be raised to judgement of second death.

Peacefullove: The evidence lies in the fact that many who have a part in it are still liable to second death.

Achorladey: interesting, never knew Jesus was TALKING about the SECOND RESURRECTION here. Will I say another ASSUMPTIONS, SPECULATION or DIMENSION into the WHOLE SCENARIO here.

No, you can't that's DELUSION. Why ? Because the proof exist that anyone that have a part in first ressurection cannot in anyway experience judgement of second death .


Do you agree John 5;28,29 describe a ressurection where a person can still experience second death ?

Peacefullove: Merry go round ?

Achorladey: My Merry go round here means going with YOU into CIRCLES of ASSUMPTIONS, SPECULATION and the latest entry DIMENSION(with John 5:28,29 being SEEN as second RESURRECTION and not the FIRST.

" Happy and greatly blessed are those who are included in this first raising of the dead. The second death has no power over them; they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they will rule with him for a thousand years. " Revelation 20:6


" Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them , but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. " Revelation 20:6

This is why your John 5:28,29 wasn't a reference to first ressurection. No merry go round exist except delusion

Peacefullove: So is your Bible contradicting itself when it says Ruling as King and Priest with Jesus for 1000 years is for those having a part in the first ressurection?

Achorladey: I haven't said so.

Peacefullove: The wording of that Thessalonians DIDN'T REMOVE the fact that DEATH MUST occur if so there won't have been any need to raise the dead first , all will be packed at once.

Achorladey: the WE WHICH WE ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN LIKEWISE didn't look like a STATEMENT that SAYS DEATH must OCCUR. The reason I said its the LORD arrangement.

Pecefullove: I need to know if your bible was contradicting itself or its your own knowledge forming wall here


Achorladey: I will repeat, I haven't said ANYTHING about the bible contradicting itself and my knowledge is NOT the OBSTACLE here, I told you from the START about BORDERLINE SPECULATION, ASSUMPTIONS what you called VARIED INTERPRETATION

The below is why You may also be on the speculation desk.

"If we patiently endure pain, we shall also share His Kingship; " 2Tim 2:12 Weymouth


This goal is open to only those who experience the first or earlier ressurection, Do you agree ?

MuttleyLaff:
Now I am getting a sense of why you said you took a hiatus from the Religion forum Nairaland and why I should expedite my response to your 3 questions of interest. I have started on it and hopefully you should my response before bedtime tonight. The Spirit of Truth, clearly is something worth having as a Teacher, Ally and Confidant

Jozzy4, without doubt, correctly and clearly, right from the Page 1 start word go, had said that, there is nothing like RAPTURE and to go read the Bible to know there isnt. I'll further chip in that even the word RAPTURE is AWOL in the bible. Princewell2012, you'll never find the word RAPTURE written up anywhere in the Bible

Thank so much. Am expecting your responce.

Princewell2012:
Thank so much. Am expecting your responce.

I am sorry for the delay. Body nobi wood. I had an early lie yesterday. Currently doing catching up. Will asap get back to you. My profound and sincere apologies

Maximus69:
This guy is just one of the five brothers of that rich man in Jesus' illustration! Luke 16:19-31

All he wants is the little drop of water to cool his spiritual thirst! Luke 16:24

He goes to the Kingdom Halls for worship, but he's not pleased with the simplicity of God's arrangement just like the Pharisees and Saddusees got irritated at God's arrangement when they found out that there is no other option than becoming followers of Jesus.

So he's hooked up in his own pride and ego, but now trying to justify himself with arguments against the same organization that he has known all his life!

So whenever you're discussing with him, he feels this soothing relief from his spiritual torment but when you refuse to chat with him, he suffers agony within.

That's why Jehovah's organization told us not to have anything to do with such persons, THEY ARE THE APOSTATES!

It's no LONGER ATHEIST but APOSTATE. hahahahahaha.

John 4 13,14 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I JESUS CHRIST not Maximus69) give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I ( JESUS CHRIST not Maximus69) give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to ETERNAL LIFE.”

Olorun a yo wa ooooo you never hear am before abi?

Never knew peacefullove is a JW like you. I dey enjoy my discussion ooooo with him. Don't use your APOSTATE palaver disturb where this is headed. Last last something must be gained here. If not SPECULATION, ASSUMPTION or the FRONTIER of the VARIED EXPLANATION widened.

Peacefullove:
Okay here is John 5:28,29

New American Standard Bible

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,

and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Point 1: All are raised at the same time . ( making them belong to same category ) First means before Others.

Point number 2. The designation ressurection of life and ressurection of judgement is about their Deeds after been ressurected NOT deeds before they die . So for a long time to pass before this classification is done shows they all belong to a single ressurection class.

In lay mans term all of those mentioned at John 5:28,29 are raised same hour and after a specific period of time labelled for life or judgement.

Point 3 : That the people in this ressurection could be labelled as deserving of judgement of second death proved further this ressurection wasn't first. In first, second death cannot over power you.



Yes.

And the evidence lies in the Fact that anyone having a part in the first ressurection cannot experience second death , Agree ?


That's not what's happening at John. 5:28,29 . if it were first ressurection none of those raised can be raised to judgement of second death.




No, you can't that's DELUSION. Why ? Because the proof exist that anyone that have a part in first ressurection cannot in anyway experience judgement of second death .


Do you agree John 5;28,29 describe a ressurection where a person can still experience second death ?




" Happy and greatly blessed are those who are included in this first raising of the dead. The second death has no power over them; they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they will rule with him for a thousand years. " Revelation 20:6


" Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them , but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. " Revelation 20:6

This is why your John 5:28,29 wasn't a reference to first ressurection. No merry go round exist except delusion



The below is why You may also be on the speculation desk.

"If we patiently endure pain, we shall also share His Kingship; " 2Tim 2:12 Weymouth


This goal is open to only those who experience the first or earlier ressurection, Do you agree ?

I have linked all your EXPLANATION before this latest post of YOURS before this time and I can see the pattern in place.

From what I could get then and this post up there, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 and Revelation 20:6 go together. Is that correct? And to a large extent The Thessalonians account is a description of the FIRST RESURRECTION.

Am I correct to view your explanation that way?

John 5 28,29 stands SEPARATELY as SECOND RESSURECTION.

Should I view your EXPLANATION this way?


When the discussion started Initially, the TYPE OF RESURRECTION was ASKED, You still REMEMBER? The reason I cited John 5 28,29.

Then I pointed out the RIGHTEOUS and UNRIGHTEOUS.

So while you are LOOKING at FIRST and SECOND RESSURECTION, I am looking at RIGHTEOUS and UNRIGHTEOUS.

Where am I headed with all this..........

FIRST RESURRECTION...............RIGHTEOUS PEOPLE and by extension according to Revelation 20:6 those that will rule with Christ I believe that is correct from your point of view?

SECOND RESSURECTION.................... going by John 5 28,29 RIGHTEOUS and UNRIGHTEOUS PEOPLE. Is that what you place before me?

Or

GENERAL RESURRECTION of PEOPLE NOT CLASSIFIED who are GIVEN a SECOND CHANCE and will later be CLASSIFIED as RIGHTEOUS and UNRIGHTEOUS according to their DEEDS

Or

UNRIGHTEOUS PEOPLE whose SLATE whipped CLEAN but will later be CLASSIFIED as RIGHTEOUS and UNRIGHTEOUS according to their DEEDS after a long period of time has passed.

Peacefullove: The below is why You may also be on the speculation desk.

"If we patiently endure pain, we shall also share His Kingship; " 2Tim 2:12 Weymouth


Achorladey: Is this an EXPLANATION for WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN by using PATIENTLY ENDURE PAIN?

I still don't see EXPECTED TO DIE here too.

Jozzy4:
There is nothing like RAPTURE. Read your Bible

God bless you.

Righteousness89:
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Awake