And by that I mean the most difficult to understand of the lects which occupy the intermediate position between nuclear Igbo and Ekpeye (Ika, Ukwuani, Ikwerre and the Izzi-Ezza-Mgbo-Ikwo cluster of northern Ebonyi).

Most divergent Igbo dialect rather. A language is a full fledged language of its own, unlike another. Dialects are versions of the same language mutually intelligible or non intelligible to their speakers.

To me, I’d say Ekpeye is the most divergent away from other igbo dialects. A quick look at the Ekpeye dictionary would reveal a ton of words different from other Igbo dialects. The Izzi-Ikwo cluster might not be as bad because their words are mostly the same as other Igbo dialects, just their different pronunciation that makes the lect hard to understand initially. Maybe next would core Ikwerre dialect. Not the one spoken in PH and environs that’s more centralized. The one spoken in their interior villages.

bigfrancis21:
Most divergent Igbo dialect rather. A language is a full fledged language of its own, unlike another. Dialects are versions of the same language mutually intelligible or non intelligible to their speakers.

To me, I’d say Ekpeye is the most divergent away from other igbo dialects. A quick look at the Ekpeye dictionary would reveal a ton of words different from other Igbo dialects. The Izzi-Ikwo cluster might not be as bad because their words are mostly the same as other Igbo dialects, just their different pronunciation that makes the lect hard to understand initially. Maybe next would core Ikwerre dialect. Not the one spoken in PH and environs that’s more centralized. The one spoken in their interior villages.

I discounted Ekpeye because even linguistic experts believe it’s a standalone Igboid language.

Ikwerre has an awful lot of distinct dialects for something that’s a mere dialect itself. It’s hard to measure here what constitutes a closely related Igboid language and a mere complex Igbo dialect. That’s why I initially put language in quotation marks.

The difference between a language and dialect is arbitrarily based on socio-politics. There is no universal criteria to distinguish between the two. As such, linguists have opt to say that all languages are in fact just dialects (or, to avoid all socio-political implications, lects). Everyone speaks a dialect. Whether your dialect is counted as a language is ultimately arbitrary and subjective.

Probz, to answer your question. The Igbo languages sit on a continuum. As such, there isn't one that is "most divergent". The only exception to this it seems is Ekpeye. Ekpeye also is part of the continuum. It just shows more consistent divergence than other lects. However, you seem to not want to include Ekpeye. So with that, we can say that divergence can definitely be arbitrary.

Determining which is "most divergent" would depend heavily on who you ask. It would depend on their (positive or negative) views with respect to other Igbo groups and depend on their primary lect, and even how exposed they may be to other lects.

But, if I am to answer the question personally, for myself, I might say Abakaliki. Granted, someone from Abakaliki equally said the same to me about Ngwa, even though I believe there should be other lects that rank higher than Ngwa as far as divergence.

ChinenyeN:
The difference between a language and dialect is arbitrarily based on socio-politics. There is no universal criteria to distinguish between the two. As such, linguists have opt to say that all languages are in fact just dialects (or, to avoid all socio-political implications, lects). Everyone speaks a dialect. Whether your dialect is counted as a language is ultimately arbitrary and subjective.

Probz, to answer your question. The Igbo languages sit on a continuum. As such, there isn't one that is "most divergent". The only exception to this it seems is Ekpeye. Ekpeye also is part of the continuum. It just shows more consistent divergence than other lects. However, you seem to not want to include Ekpeye. So with that, we can say that divergence can definitely be arbitrary.

Determining which is "most divergent" would depend heavily on who you ask. It would depend on their (positive or negative) views with respect to other Igbo groups and depend on their primary lect, and even how exposed they may be to other lects.

But, if I am to answer the question personally, for myself, I might say Abakaliki. Granted, someone from Abakaliki equally said the same to me about Ngwa, even though I believe there should be other lects that rank higher than Ngwa as far as divergence.

And how do you feel about the Izzi-Ezza-Mgbo-Ikwo cluster in general?

Probz, I feel that that dialect and cultural region has been severely neglected by modern Igbo people, especially those who are strong proponents of a homogeneous Igbo culture and language.

I also feel that they get treated rather unfairly. I would not blame them if they opted to dissociate as non-Igbo. There is enough cultural and linguistic leverage for them to do so.

I also personally believe that their lect is amazing, despite the fact that I don't understand it when it's spoken to me. I can only say this after the fact, because I managed to get my hand on a morphology, syntax and grammar book about the cluster. Their morphology and grammar is divergent in some key ways (particularly that of Izii), but that opens up the possibility for other modes of speech to expand Igbo linguistic expression if we so choose.

ChinenyeN:
Probz, I feel that that dialect and cultural region has been severely neglected by modern Igbo people, especially those who are strong proponents of a homogeneous Igbo culture and language.

I also feel that they get treated rather unfairly. I would not blame them if they opted to dissociate as non-Igbo. There is enough cultural and linguistic leverage for them to do so.

I also personally believe that their lect is amazing, despite the fact that I don't understand it when it's spoken to me. I can only say this after the fact, because I managed to get my hand on a morphology, syntax and grammar book about the cluster. Their morphology and grammar is divergent in some key ways (particularly that of Izii), but that opens up the possibility for other modes of speech to expand Igbo linguistic expression if we so choose.

Ditto. The more colourful and distinct cultures and lects found in Abia and Ebonyi are a lot more interesting than the monolithic Anambra-Enugu township-generic Imo baseline we use as a yardstick for Igbo cultural markers. I say that as someone from Anambra.

Aside from the conservation of certain bizarre features found in Abakaliki no other Igbo clans do better at preserving certain cultural features (aka Igbo men rightfully wearing wrappers and not jeans for traditional functions) than the Abia-Ebonyi cluster. That’s probably at least in part because the Igbo sub-groups found in those two states tend to be a lot more tangible and distinct than a lot of northern Igbo subgroups (aka the so-called Wawa clan of Enugu - culturally there’s not much divergence between them and general northern Igbo).

River State igbo dialect,xcluding ndoni.
Mostly from the ekpeye.

Chibossboi:
River State igbo dialect,xcluding ndoni.
Mostly from the ekpeye.

List out the Rivers Igbo dialect?

ChinenyeN:
Probz, I feel that that dialect and cultural region has been severely neglected by modern Igbo people, especially those who are strong proponents of a homogeneous Igbo culture and language.

I also feel that they get treated rather unfairly. I would not blame them if they opted to dissociate as non-Igbo. There is enough cultural and linguistic leverage for them to do so.

I also personally believe that their lect is amazing, despite the fact that I don't understand it when it's spoken to me. I can only say this after the fact, because I managed to get my hand on a morphology, syntax and grammar book about the cluster. Their morphology and grammar is divergent in some key ways (particularly that of Izii), but that opens up the possibility for other modes of speech to expand Igbo linguistic expression if we so choose.

Am working on expanding the vocabulary of standard Ìgbò and am looking towards the izii cluster... Do you know how I can get a PDF version of their dialectal vocabulary?

cheruv:

Am working on expanding the vocabulary of standard Ìgbò and am looking towards the izii cluster... Do you know how I can get a PDF version of their dialectal vocabulary?

Hehe. You're trying to succeed where the SPILC failed ehn kwa? That's quite the endeavor, but I wish you the best of luck in that. To aid you on this, I know I had in my possession a non-searchable PDF of their language and grammar. Give me some time to look for it and I'll share it with you.

ChinenyeN:
The difference between a language and dialect is arbitrarily based on socio-politics. There is no universal criteria to distinguish between the two. As such, linguists have opt to say that all languages are in fact just dialects (or, to avoid all socio-political implications, lects). Everyone speaks a dialect. Whether your dialect is counted as a language is ultimately arbitrary and subjective.

Probz, to answer your question. The Igbo languages sit on a continuum. As such, there isn't one that is "most divergent". The only exception to this it seems is Ekpeye. Ekpeye also is part of the continuum. It just shows more consistent divergence than other lects. However, you seem to not want to include Ekpeye. So with that, we can say that divergence can definitely be arbitrary.

Determining which is "most divergent" would depend heavily on who you ask. It would depend on their (positive or negative) views with respect to other Igbo groups and depend on their primary lect, and even how exposed they may be to other lects.

But, if I am to answer the question personally, for myself, I might say Abakaliki. Granted, someone from Abakaliki equally said the same to me about Ngwa, even though I believe there should be other lects that rank higher than Ngwa as far as divergence.

I had a brief talk with someone under a YouTube video and the same points you made was what I made, languages are inherently political and what constitutes a stand alone language is not understood and based solely on politics.

I think in general if a dialect is unintelligible to those in the same group of languages then it is a different language under the same group, ekpeye is a different language under the igboid group of languages as it is simply unintelligible to most Igbo. Whether or not it can be considered too divergent depends on if you still consider it a dialect or a different language.

ChinenyeN:


Hehe. You're trying to succeed where the SPILC failed ehn kwa? That's quite the endeavor, but I wish you the best of luck in that. To aid you on this, I know I had in my possession a non-searchable PDF of their language and grammar. Give me some time to look for it and I'll share it with you.

SPILC had alot of defects... So it's not surprising it failed.
I've already worked out a model for use of Chinese characters in writing Ìgbò.. taking into account the verbs, prefixes, suffixes and other lexical aspects that are prone to being ignored and I can tell you it came out just fine.
Ìgbò has alot of palindromic words but I've noticed that the Eastern dialects tend to have less occurance of such.
孩母 如 它 在....

cheruv:
SPILC had alot of defects... So it's not surprising it failed.

While I certainly agree that the SPILC more or less created a weak product (Izugbe), I have to admit that they achieved what they set out to do. So technically, it's not a failure. They created a new standard, and it has been in place for forty years now. So it was a success. It is a lacking standard, yes, but that is actually by design. Where I consider it a failure is the effect it ultimately had. It led to a stall. Izugbe isn't being developed further, and on top of that, Igbo people are foolishly using Izugbe to consequently stall the various native lects.

cheruv:
I've already worked out a model for use of Chinese characters in writing Ìgbò.. taking into account the verbs, prefixes, suffixes and other lexical aspects that are prone to being ignored and I can tell you it came out just fine.
Ìgbò has alot of palindromic words but I've noticed that the Eastern dialects tend to have less occurance of such.
孩母 如 它 在....

I'd be interested in hearing more. But have you heard of the Neo-Nsibidi project?

Here's a link to the Izi PDF. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IVa3DolLbiSB9Ud5szcZbWpotLEo7ybj/view?usp=drivesdk

Daverytimes:
I had a brief talk with someone under a YouTube video and the same points you made was what I made, languages are inherently political and what constitutes a stand alone language is not understood and based solely on politics.

I think in general if a dialect is unintelligible to those in the same group of languages then it is a different language under the same group, ekpeye is a different language under the igboid group of languages as it is simply unintelligible to most Igbo. Whether or not it can be considered too divergent depends on if you still consider it a dialect or a different language.

Exactly.