Snowale:
You are just trying so hard to make dentistry look as important as medicine. Even though you know how they treats you. you are giving me details about how they allowed a dentist to lead the association in 2007, that you claim belongs to you both. Giving me details about how some dentist were allowed to held fellowships of a college of surgeons, that you claim belongs to you both. Don't you know how you sound

You said I should Google what you don't know, bring the law that says only medical doctors or those under MDCN can be called Doctors. forget about dentistry, Because I was also like pharmacy in the past, it's just that they've been allowed to dine with the doctors, now they are her online making mouth, just because they were given the opportunity. if you read publications and you are current, you will find out that they are looking for ways to dump you guys, so it's will be only them.

Some even say, ophthalmologist would soon join you guys, just like abroad, and when they join willing you tell me they can't also be called Doctors.

Pharm.D is a new thing, and very soon, everyone would know that there are pharmacist doctors, just like dentist can can also be called Doctors.

I believe you're ignorant. Opthalmologists are not the same as optometrists. Opthalmology is the field I have in mind, to specialize in after MBBS. It's a branch of medicine. Pharm.D should be used outside the hospital. It's not bad, but it should not be used inside the hospital. They don't consult, diagnose, treat and manage diseases.

Despite the mad rush for a professional doctorate in pharmacy, nursing and medical laboratory science, Medicine and Dentistry have not changed their first degree. It's still MBBS and BDS respectively. That shows they are comfortable with what they have, and it serves them everywhere. So, it's low self esteem and the mad rush to bear doctors that pushed you people to change degrees. After all, in Britain from where Nigeria copied its education curricula, pharmacy is still B.Pharm.

I argue based on facts; since you have continued to mention ophthalmology in place of optometry, I believe all you wrote earlier are good for the trash can.

Dentistry is as important as medicine. Without oral pathologists, an oral cancer patient may not know he or she has it, and the earlier it's diagnosed, the higher the chance of survival. Ameloblastoma is another disease disfiguring people's faces in Africa, and without a maxillofacial surgeon to operate on it, the quality of life of that person will be hampered. Noma (cancrum oris) is a flesh-eating disease ravaging Northerners, and without maxillofacial surgeons and plastic surgeons, it'll permanently disfigure and disable them. Diseases of the oral cavity can spread to the blood and kill the patient. So, dentistry is as important as medicine. I've been in the two, and I know their importance. Dentists called prosthodontists also replace lost parts of the face due to surgery, by printing a 3D image of that person's face. Cleft lip and palate disfigures children's faces in Africa, and it's the job of maxillofacial surgeons to surgically correct it, and give the person a new lease of life.

A lady lawyer poured encomiums on Prof. Obuekwe (a consultant maxillofacial surgeon) at UBTH on how God used him to reconstruct her extremely damaged face caused by an accident, and that people looking at her beautiful face today might not know it underwent a lot of surgeries by Prof. Obuekwe. So, dentistry is as good as medicine. My experience revealed it to me too. Every course is good too.

mannyiyke:
I believe you're ignorant. Opthalmologists are not the same as optometrists. Opthalmology is the field I have in mind, to specialize in after MBBS. It's a branch of medicine. Pharm.D should be used outside the hospital. It's not bad, but it should not be used inside the hospital. They don't consult, diagnose, treat and manage diseases.

Despite the mad rush for a professional doctorate in pharmacy, nursing and medical laboratory science, Medicine and Dentistry have not changed their first degree. It's still MBBS and BDS respectively. That shows they are comfortable with what they have, and it serves them everywhere. So, it's low self esteem and the mad rush to bear doctors that pushed you people to change degrees. After all, in Britain from where Nigeria copied its education curricula, pharmacy is still B.Pharm.

I argue based on facts; since you have continued to mention ophthalmology in place of optometry, I believe all you wrote earlier are good for the trash can.

Dentistry is as important as medicine. Without oral pathologists, an oral cancer patient may not know he or she has it, and the earlier it's diagnosed, the higher the chance of survival. Ameloblastoma is another disease disfiguring people's faces in Africa, and without a maxillofacial surgeon to operate on it, the quality of life of that person will be hampered. Noma (cancrum oris) is a flesh-eating disease ravaging Northerners, and without maxillofacial surgeons and plastic surgeons, it'll permanently disfigure and disable them. Diseases of the oral cavity can spread to the blood and kill the patient. So, dentistry is as important as medicine. I've been in the two, and I know their importance. Dentists called prosthodontists also replace lost parts of the face due to surgery, by printing a 3D image of that person's face. Cleft lip and palate disfigures children's faces in Africa, and it's the job of maxillofacial surgeons to surgically correct it, and give the person a new lease of life.

A lady lawyer poured encomiums on Prof. Obuekwe (a consultant maxillofacial surgeon) at UBTH on how God used him to reconstruct her extremely damaged face caused by an accident, and that people looking at her beautiful face today might not know it underwent a lot of surgeries by Prof. Obuekwe. So, dentistry is as good as medicine. My experience revealed it to me too. Every course is good too.

I meant optometrist. They are also doctors, just like dentists. They both treat patients, they also diagnose, and manage diseases. Abroad, they are allowed to consult just like dentists.

Dentistry wasn't an academic doctorate degree from the start, just like pharmacy. Now we can call graduates of both doctors. Even some countries abroad don't awards doctorate to dental graduates.

You are giving instsinsof where a dentist did his job, he was praised. Pharmacist, Nurses, scientists have also been praised for what the did right.

He carried out his surgery and it was successful, then what's the big deal, he did his job well

Oboy e dn do for una oh

@Manny, because Those in Health Sciences Except Physiotherapy do not Offer All Basic Medical Science Courses Doesn't Mean They don't offer them in other Schools.

All Medical Courses Offer Same throughout...

Last Last, e dn do abeg.

Snowale:
I meant optometrist. They are also doctors, just like dentists. They both treat patients, they also diagnose, and manage diseases. Abroad, they are allowed to consult just like dentists.

Dentistry wasn't an academic doctorate degree from the start, just like pharmacy. Now we can call graduates of both doctors. Even some countries abroad don't awards doctorate to dental graduates.

You are giving instsinsof where a dentist did his job, he was praised. Pharmacist, Nurses, scientists have also been praised for what the did right.

He carried out his surgery and it was successful, then what's the big deal, he did his job well

And which country doesn't award the doctor title to dental surgeons? The last time I checked, that happened in England, where only physicians were called doctors, and all surgeons were not called doctors (a surgeon bears Mr. or Ms.). But that's not the case anymore. In England today, all surgeons bear the doctor title. Understand what you read before you speculate.
U would never see Doctor of MBBS or Doctor of BDS in a certificate, but they are called doctors by virtue of their practice. That's the difference.
And stop using the term "academic doctorate" indiscriminately. There is a difference between a doctor title and an academic doctorate title.
Do u know that all surgeons were once barbers? And do u know that dentist were also barbers? (Google about "barber surgeons", I am not talking about hair cutters here). Read your medical history.
The fact remains that dental surgery is a branch of general medicine, just like ophthalmology (not optometry like u wrongly insinuated). They are their own bosses when it comes to conditions concerning the oral and maxilofacial region. You can't say the same about Pharm and other Allied health sciences.
Over the years, dental surgeons all over the world have worked very hard in developing and expanding the profession. They have made tremendous strides in the medical field, that's why dentistry has been developing rapidly over the years. And that's what has earned them the respect in the medical world today. The above is what makes "dentistry" unique.

Snowale:
I meant optometrist. They are also doctors, just like dentists. They both treat patients, they also diagnose, and manage diseases. Abroad, they are allowed to consult just like dentists.

Dentistry wasn't an academic doctorate degree from the start, just like pharmacy. Now we can call graduates of both doctors. Even some countries abroad don't awards doctorate to dental graduates.

You are giving instsinsof where a dentist did his job, he was praised. Pharmacist, Nurses, scientists have also been praised for what the did right.

He carried out his surgery and it was successful, then what's the big deal, he did his job well

They treat minor eye diseases. In Britain, they're not that recognized, and they don't consult in Britain, and it's not a professional doctorate degree programme there. In America, they're given doctorate of optometry (OD). They don't do surgery too like maxillofacial surgeons and some other dentists do, and they don't function as pathologists or radiologists like some dentists do. There are also consultant oral radiologists who function like general radiologists. You can google it. So, optometrists' job roles are limited.

In Nigeria here, they don't have a separate department in the hospital, and are regarded as technicians by ophthalmologists. In fact, they make caricature of them when they call themselves doctors. On the contrary, dentists are appointed as CMDs and also head clinical services in the hospital, whether in Nigeria or abroad. Dr Gary Parker is still the chief medical officer of MercyShip Hospital. Prof. Foluso Owotade (a consultant maxillofacial surgeon) was the former CMAC of Obafemi Awolowo University Teaching Hospital, and when the CMD completed his tenure, he became an acting CMD. In fact, medical doctors call dentists their colleagues and they collaborate in surgery like maxillofacial surgeons, ENT and plastic surgeons normally do.

Dentists have always been addressed as doctors even with BDS. They didn't beg for a professional doctorate like you people in Nigeria, yet they are recognized as doctors. Dentistry has nothing to do with a professional doctorate, even though America and Canada award DMD and DDS.

Check India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, China, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Saudi Arabia and other Asian and Middle East countries as well as Africa, dentists are awarded BDS and addressed as doctors. In all these places, they address pharmacists as non-doctors. You can google it. Even in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, maxillofacial surgeons go deeper by becoming head and neck cancer surgeons like otorhinolaryngologists, after a fellowship of 2 years in oncosurgery. On the contrary, pharmacists want to be called doctors by force.

Snowale:
Like I said, it is not common. Most government and private hospitals use the general labs and don't have any oral pathology lab. Don't be surprised, some government hospitals has no dentistry department.
Even most of those that have the labs usually shuts it down. The whole unilag teaching hospital has just 4 oral pathologist, I'm not saying there is none. I'm saying you should tell me what really happens in most hospitals, they are few, and most of those pathologist studied abroad. I don't want to tell you about my personal experience because of security reasons.

There is general histopathology department in all teaching hospitals.

Have you checked how many general pathologists the whole LUTH has too? Go and make your findings. General pathologists are not good at diagnosing oral and maxillofacial lesions. One American oral cancer survivor, Eva Graysale, advised people to go to oral pathologists, that she was misdiagnosed by a general pathologist, and when she went back to an oral pathologist, it turned out that it was actually an oral squamous carcinoma (oral cancer). Anybody can make a mistake, but an oral pathologist in training sees more oral biopsy samples than a general pathologist. An oral pathologist in training also sees few samples from other parts of the body as he or she rotates through general pathology. So, now that more oral pathologists have been trained, hospitals have stopped using general pathologists for oral histopathology tests, because of the likely incorrect results. I'm a medical student. So, I'm not against general pathologists. Even in Britain, oral pathologists worked in some general pathology laboratories seeing some samples that came from other parts of the body, but they were stopped immediately general pathologists were employed. So, it's a similar scenario here. * * There's no tertiary government hospital that doesn't have a dental department. Those patients in the rural areas are referred to teaching hospitals, general hospitals and federal medical centres. * *. Most government hospitals have oral pathology laboratories. In the event that they don't have it, oral pathologists are employed in the general pathology laboratory. * * Nobody shuts down an oral pathology laboratory. Diseases of the oral cavity are much more than dental diseases. People suffer from a lot of oral diseases. Salivary gland diseases such as sialoadenitis, etc, skin diseases on the oral and maxillofacial region are there, different types of oral cancer may be there, benign tumors may be there too, and some of these are frequent complaints coupled with dental diseases. ENT surgeons and private hospitals also send their oral biopsy samples to oral pathology laboratory.

Maid007:

And which country doesn't award the doctor title to dental surgeons? The last time I checked, that happened in England, where only physicians were called doctors, and all surgeons were not called doctors (a surgeon bears Mr. or Ms.). But that's not the case anymore. In England today, all surgeons bear the doctor title. Understand what you read before you speculate.
U would never see Doctor of MBBS or Doctor of BDS in a certificate, but they are called doctors by virtue of their practice. That's the difference.
And stop using the term "academic doctorate" indiscriminately. There is a difference between a doctor title and an academic doctorate title.
Do u know that all surgeons were once barbers? And do u know that dentist were also barbers? (Google about "barber surgeons", I am not talking about hair cutters here). Read your medical history.
The fact remains that dental surgery is a branch of general medicine, just like ophthalmology (not optometry like u wrongly insinuated). They are their own bosses when it comes to conditions concerning the oral and maxilofacial region. You can't say the same about Pharm and other Allied health sciences.
Over the years, dental surgeons all over the world have worked very hard in developing and expanding the profession. They have made tremendous strides in the medical field, that's why dentistry has been developing rapidly over the years. And that's what has earned them the respect in the medical world today. The above is what makes "dentistry" unique.

Dentistry is just like pharmacy, Graduates from your department were not awarded Doctors initially. Even till now it hasn't be approved in some countries, like India, dentistry is a 4 years course, + 1 year internship. Not even up to B.pharm. and other countries, pharm.D hasn't being approved in some countries also.

Over the years, Pharmacists also strived to make it as prestigious as it is today. DDS might be older than Pharm.D, but put this in mind, pharmacist are spreading their boundaries faster than you think, it's not only Dentistry that is developing. And very soon, they will get more than the respect they get today.

Dental surgery will always be a branch of medicine, and pharmacy will never be. It's has branches also. And as time goes on, you will know that Pharm.D isn't what we are chasing, we are chasing something bigger. Dentist are now CMD's, Pharmcist Doctors are also becoming CMDs and many more. You can't tell me that ordinary dentistry is broader than pharmacist, All most all you do can be done by medical doctors, and in some countries, medical doctors does it all.

mannyiyke:
They treat minor eye diseases. In Britain, they're not that recognized, and they don't consult in Britain, and it's not a professional doctorate degree programme there. In America, they're given doctorate of optometry (OD). They don't do surgery too like maxillofacial surgeons and some other dentists do, and they don't function as pathologists or radiologists like some dentists do. There are also consultant oral radiologists who function like general radiologists. You can google it. So, optometrists' job roles are limited.

In Nigeria here, they don't have a separate department in the hospital, and are regarded as technicians by ophthalmologists. In fact, they make caricature of them when they call themselves doctors. On the contrary, dentists are appointed as CMDs and also head clinical services in the hospital, whether in Nigeria or abroad. Dr Gary Parker is still the chief medical officer of MercyShip Hospital. Prof. Foluso Owotade (a consultant maxillofacial surgeon) was the former CMAC of Obafemi Awolowo University Teaching Hospital, and when the CMD completed his tenure, he became an acting CMD. In fact, medical doctors call dentists their colleagues and they collaborate in surgery like maxillofacial surgeons, ENT and plastic surgeons normally do.

Dentists have always been addressed as doctors even with BDS. They didn't beg for a professional doctorate like you people in Nigeria, yet they are recognized as doctors. Dentistry has nothing to do with a professional doctorate, even though America and Canada award DMD and DDS.

Check India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, China, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Saudi Arabia and other Asian and Middle East countries as well as Africa, dentists are awarded BDS and addressed as doctors. In all these places, they address pharmacists as non-doctors. You can google it. Even in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, maxillofacial surgeons go deeper by becoming head and neck cancer surgeons like otorhinolaryngologists, after a fellowship of 2 years in oncosurgery. On the contrary, pharmacists want to be called doctors by force.

They treat minor eye diseases It's only in nigeria optometrist are not allowed to do surgery. https://www.aoa.org/about-the-aoa/what-is-a-doctor-of-optometry, after reading it, come back her to tell me if optometrist does surgeries in other countries or not.
Even in many hospitals in Nigeria, optometrist and ophthamologies should always be present in all eye surgeries. OD is a new program, unliju dentistry and as time goes on they will dominate and spread their boundaries, in some countries OD doctor does some facial surgeries. They are fighting for the right, and trust me they got OD, and very soon they will get more than that. In the past also, Dentist were like them, but now they can now make mouth. Optometrist jobs are limited in Nigeria

OD is new in Nigeria. We know they are being intimated and sidelined, the got their OD, and they will get more Soo , just like Dentistry and pharmcy. In US. They have their sepesepa department, and they are headed by Doctors of optometrist, it's very rear to see an ophthalmologists head the department.
Chech out the Optometry department of Boston's Children Hospital, and see their clinical director is a Doctor of optometry. Amy Roan Moy, OD, FAAO.
No ophthalmologist works in the department, all their doctors are OD doctors. we know how lawless Nigeria is, and as time goes one, I know Nigeria will develop, and you would be silenced.

Like I said, DDS is older than OD, you don't just expect an OD that just graduated to be the CMD. And Also, Dentists we helped, they were accepted into the game, and still most CMDs are medical doctors. Abroad there are CMDs that are pharmacist, because they have consultant pharmacist. Prof. Joanne Hirshfield, Dr. Jeffrey C. Delafuente and many others. They head colleges of medicine and pharmacy. Nigeria is developing, evil people are doing their best to stop others from improvement, and Nigeria would develop someday.

Dentist fought for doctors, and many countries abroad now take DDS.
Also, Pharmcist also fought for doctors, and many countries abroad now take pharm.D. pharm.D in Nigeria is more than 10 years. And around the world, it's more than 20 years. Pharmacist Doctors has attained great feats abroad, and they are now consultants, CMDs and Medical directors. And they are still striving hard. Nurses Abroad are now doing surgeries, and some countries are now doing DON, Doctors of Nursing, they can be consultants. Nigeria follows they Western countries because they are more developed, but when it comes to health, the medical doctors would not like only thenselves dominates the hospital.

Snowale:
Dentistry is just like pharmacy, Graduates from your department were not awarded Doctors initially. Even till now it hasn't be approved in some countries, like India, dentistry is a 4 years course, + 1 year internship. Not even up to B.pharm. and other countries, pharm.D hasn't being approved in some countries also.

Over the years, Pharmacists also strived to make it as prestigious as it is today. DDS might be older than Pharm.D, but put this in mind, pharmacist are spreading their boundaries faster than you think, it's not only Dentistry that is developing. And very soon, they will get more than the respect they get today.

Dental surgery will always be a branch of medicine, and pharmacy will never be. It's has branches also. And as time goes on, you will know that Pharm.D isn't what we are chasing, we are chasing something bigger. Dentist are now CMD's, Pharmcist Doctors are also becoming CMDs and many more. You can't tell me that ordinary dentistry is broader than pharmacist, All most all you do can be done by medical doctors, and in some countries, medical doctors does it all.

Wait, did u even read what I wrote up there? And all u could come up with is this?
I asked u a question, in which country is a dentist not a doctor? You didn't answer that...Just to clear the air, dentists have always been a doctors by virtue of their practice (since inception), we didn't need to add the Dr. title.
I gave u a lot of educational materials up there, and u couldn't even comprehend? It's a shame.
I now understand that u don't read to understand, you just read to reply.
I laughed when u talked about broadness. Dentistry is broader than you think.
One more thing, in which country is a pharmacist the chief medical director? Or is there now a different meaning to the acronym "CMD" that I don't know of? Name one country and the name of the person.
If u can't answer the above questions, go and sleep. I have seen how you argue, it's wack.

mannyiyke:
Have you checked how many general pathologists the whole LUTH has too? Go and make your findings. General pathologists are not good at diagnosing oral and maxillofacial lesions. One American oral cancer survivor, Eva Graysale, advised people to go to oral pathologists, that she was misdiagnosed by a general pathologist, and when she went back to an oral pathologist, it turned out that it was actually an oral squamous carcinoma (oral cancer). Anybody can make a mistake, but an oral pathologist in training sees more oral biopsy samples than a general pathologist. An oral pathologist in training also sees few samples from other parts of the body as he or she rotates through general pathology. So, now that more oral pathologists have been trained, hospitals have stopped using general pathologists for oral histopathology tests, because of the likely incorrect results. I'm a medical student. So, I'm not against general pathologists. Even in Britain, oral pathologists worked in some general pathology laboratories seeing some samples that came from other parts of the body, but they were stopped immediately general pathologists were employed. So, it's a similar scenario here. * * There's no tertiary government hospital that doesn't have a dental department. Those patients in the rural areas are referred to teaching hospitals, general hospitals and federal medical centres. * *. Most government hospitals have oral pathology laboratories. In the event that they don't have it, oral pathologists are employed in the general pathology laboratory. * * Nobody shuts down an oral pathology laboratory. Diseases of the oral cavity are much more than dental diseases. People suffer from a lot of oral diseases. Salivary gland diseases such as sialoadenitis, etc, skin diseases on the oral and maxillofacial region are there, different types of oral cancer may be there, benign tumors may be there too, and some of these are frequent complaints coupled with dental diseases. ENT surgeons and private hospitals also send their oral biopsy samples to oral pathology laboratory.

LUTH has more than 16 general pathologist. Now you say they are not good at diagnosing it, I'm saying they do it in Nigeria and Abroad. I thought you said they don't do it. You said someone advised people with oral cancer to visit oral pathology, because she was misdiagnosed diagnosed by a general pathologist, meaning in most instances a general pathologist does the work, in Nigeria also. The general doctors might misdiagnose, no one is above mistake, a dentist might also misdiagnose.

Like I said, most government hospitals don't even have your department. I wasn't only talking about tertiary health care. Most primary and secondary don't even have your department, talkless pathology labs. Oral pathologist can't be substituted with a general pathologist. Stop deceiving yourself, they do most of your works.

ENT surgeons sent their biopsy samples to general histopathology labs. And private oral pathology labs can only be owned by a scientist, scientists are the professional for such jobs

Snowale:
I meant optometrist. They are also doctors, just like dentists. They both treat patients, they also diagnose, and manage diseases. Abroad, they are allowed to consult just like dentists.

Dentistry wasn't an academic doctorate degree from the start, just like pharmacy. Now we can call graduates of both doctors. Even some countries abroad don't awards doctorate to dental graduates.

You are giving instsinsof where a dentist did his job, he was praised. Pharmacist, Nurses, scientists have also been praised for what the did right.

He carried out his surgery and it was successful, then what's the big deal, he did his job well

Lol @ur last statement.
"He did his job well" is when you perform a common (routine) procedure.
"He did his job well" is when u dispense the correct drug that had already been prescribed.
"He did his job well" is when u have a successful production of the same paracetamol you produced yesterday.
But when doctors perform a major complicated medical or surgical breakthrough, they get applauded for it.
The sweat is the glory, bro.

Look, pharmacy is a great profession. And I like and respect it. Stop making me to have to bring out the bad side of it, pls.
Even though what I am saying here is the truth, I have friends in Pharm department and my conscience wouldn't allow me to spill this truth to their faces. So, just chill, face your work and make impacts. Enjoy.

Maid007:

Lol @ur last statement.
"He did his job well" is when you perform a common (routine) procedure.
"He did his job well" is when u dispense the correct drug that had already been prescribed.
"He did his job well" is when u have a successful production of the same paracetamol you produced yesterday.
But when doctors perform a major complicated medical or surgical breakthrough, they get applauded for it.
The sweat is the glory, bro.

Look, pharmacy is a great profession. And I like and respect it. Stop making me to have to bring out the bad side of it, pls.
Even though what I am saying here is the truth, I have friends in Pharm department and my conscience wouldn't allow me to spill this truth to their faces. So, just chill, face your work and make impacts. Enjoy.

spill the bad side what!!! Or just spill out your Ignorance.

When they make mistake during surgeries, they keep shut, they don't broadcast it. But, by the time they luckily carry out God's plans on their patients, they broadcast it, if he was taught to do it and it was successful, then what's the big deal, why not celebrate it once and stop, why broadcasting it to intimidate other. We won't hear about those that died in there hands out of their mistake, the only one we hear is the few ones they got right.

All courses have bad sides. some are worse. Pharmacy is a very noble profession.

Snowale:
LUTH has more than 16 general pathologist. Now you say they are not good at diagnosing it, I'm saying they do it in Nigeria and Abroad. I thought you said they don't do it. You said someone advised people with oral cancer to visit oral pathology, because she was misdiagnosed diagnosed by a general pathologist, meaning in most instances a general pathologist does the work, in Nigeria also. The general doctors might misdiagnose, no one is above mistake, a dentist might also misdiagnose.

Like I said, most government hospitals don't even have your department. I wasn't only talking about tertiary health care. Most primary and secondary don't even have your department, talkless pathology labs. Oral pathologist can't be substituted with a general pathologist. Stop deceiving yourself, they do most of your works.

ENT surgeons sent their biopsy samples to general histopathology labs. And private oral pathology labs can only be owned by a scientist, scientists are the professional for such jobs

Pathology laboratory, whether, it's oral or general pathology, is not under the jurisdiction of medical laboratory science. It's under the charge of doctors and dentists who are pathologists. They have the right to set up pathology labs. There's no private general or oral pathology laboratory in Nigeria. They're all owned by government or private hospitals. And in every big government or private hospital in Nigeria, there must be a general or oral pathology laboratory. Your problem is that you're ignorant. For your information, I'm not a dental student; I'm a medical student. Every secondary government hospital has a dental clinic. General hospitals are secondary healthcare facility, and all of them have fully functional dental departments, but may not have oral pathology laboratory because of underfunding. Also, general hospitals do not have general pathology laboratory. It's only tertiary government hospitals like teaching hospitals and federal medical centres that have general and oral pathology laboratories. Go and make your finding and stop confusing yourself. Besides, 16 general pathologists compared to 4 oral pathologists are very poor in number. Give me the links where you saw 16 general pathologists and 4 oral pathologists working at LUTH. They're in charge of other parts of the body other than mouth and maxillofacial region. ENT Surgeons also send their biopsy samples to oral pathologists. You're not in the same system, and you don't know better than I do. They also send to general pathologists who subspecialized in head and neck pathology. See the link: https://www.ada.org/sitecore/content/home-ada/publications/ada-news/2013-archive/august/early-detection-advocate-cites-oral-pathologists-as-essential-to-precancer-diagnosis . I couldn't paragraph my comment because my battery is running down.

Snowale:
LUTH has more than 16 general pathologist. Now you say they are not good at diagnosing it, I'm saying they do it in Nigeria and Abroad. I thought you said they don't do it. You said someone advised people with oral cancer to visit oral pathology, because she was misdiagnosed diagnosed by a general pathologist, meaning in most instances a general pathologist does the work, in Nigeria also. The general doctors might misdiagnose, no one is above mistake, a dentist might also misdiagnose.

Like I said, most government hospitals don't even have your department. I wasn't only talking about tertiary health care. Most primary and secondary don't even have your department, talkless pathology labs. Oral pathologist can't be substituted with a general pathologist. Stop deceiving yourself, they do most of your works.

ENT surgeons sent their biopsy samples to general histopathology labs. And private oral pathology labs can only be owned by a scientist, scientists are the professional for such jobs

Medical laboratory scientists are employed in oral pathology laboratories where an oral pathologist is the one in charge. Medical laboratory scientists are not pathologists. So, they don't regulate pathology laboratories.

Snowale:
spill the bad side what!!! Or just spill out your Ignorance.

When they make mistake during surgeries, they keep shut, they don't broadcast it. But, by the time they luckily carry out God's plans on their patients, they broadcast it, if he was taught to do it and it was successful, then what's the big deal, why not celebrate it once and stop, why broadcasting it to intimidate other. We won't hear about those that died in there hands out of their mistake, the only one we hear is the few ones they got right.

All courses have bad sides. some are worse. Pharmacy is a very noble profession.

Funny. It ain't no one's fault if u or anyone feels intimidated, bro. Doctors work hard to make sure that the patient gets the best treatment he can get. And the more the number of life a doctor is able to impact positively, the more fulfilled a doctor feels. If a patient dies in the course of treatment, it wasn't the doctor's intent. I give u facts, but what I get from u are mare sentiments. I thought u could come up with something better.
@ ur last statement, nobody is dragging that with u.
Just don't spew what ain't true, just to make a point.

Maid007:

Wait, did u even read what I wrote up there? And all u could come up with is this?
I asked u a question, in which country is a dentist not a doctor? You didn't answer that...Just to clear the air, dentists have always been a doctors by virtue of their practice (since inception), we didn't need to add the Dr. title.
I gave u a lot of educational materials up there, and u couldn't even comprehend? It's a shame.
I now understand that u don't read to understand, you just read to reply.
I laughed when u talked about broadness. Dentistry is broader than you think.
One more thing, in which country is a pharmacist the chief medical director? Or is there now a different meaning to the acronym "CMD" that I don't know of? Name one country and the name of the person.
If u can't answer the above questions, go and sleep. I have seen how you argue, it's wack.

@ Snowale
I believe u are pretending not to have seen this, right? Next time, say what you know and leave what you don't know. Stop embarrassing ur self.

mannyiyke:
Pathology laboratory, whether, it's oral or general pathology, is not under the jurisdiction of medical laboratory science. It's under the charge of doctors and dentists who are pathologists. They have the right to set up pathology labs. There's no private general or oral pathology laboratory in Nigeria. They're all owned by government or private hospitals. And in every big government or private hospital in Nigeria, there must be a general or oral pathology laboratory. Your problem is that you're ignorant. For your information, I'm not a dental student; I'm a medical student. Every secondary government hospital has a dental clinic. General hospitals are secondary healthcare facility, and all of them have fully functional dental departments, but may not have oral pathology laboratory because of underfunding. Also, general hospitals do not have general pathology laboratory. It's only tertiary government hospitals like teaching hospitals and federal medical centres that have general and oral pathology laboratories. Go and make your finding and stop confusing yourself. Besides, 16 general pathologists compared to 4 oral pathologists are very poor in number. Give me the links where you saw 16 general pathologists and 4 oral pathologists working at LUTH. They're in charge of other parts of the body other than mouth and maxillofacial region. ENT Surgeons also send their biopsy samples to oral pathologists. You're not in the same system, and you don't know better than I do. They also send to general pathologists who subspecialized in head and neck pathology. See the link: https://www.ada.org/sitecore/content/home-ada/publications/ada-news/2013-archive/august/early-detection-advocate-cites-oral-pathologists-as-essential-to-precancer-diagnosis . I couldn't paragraph my comment because my battery is running down.

I have come to a conclusion that the guy is not ready to learn. Smh

Maid007:

Wait, did u even read what I wrote up there? And all u could come up with is this?
I asked u a question, in which country is a dentist not a doctor? You didn't answer that...Just to clear the air, dentists have always been a doctors by virtue of their practice (since inception), we didn't need to add the Dr. title.
I gave u a lot of educational materials up there, and u couldn't even comprehend? It's a shame.
I now understand that u don't read to understand, you just read to reply.
I laughed when u talked about broadness. Dentistry is broader than you think.
One more thing, in which country is a pharmacist the chief medical director? Or is there now a different meaning to the acronym "CMD" that I don't know of? Name one country and the name of the person.
If u can't answer the above questions, go and sleep. I have seen how you argue, it's wack.

In the whole UK, dentist are not called Doctors. You can search about it, some countries call dentists doctors, while others does not(only medical doctors and PhDs are referred to doctors).

Search B.Dent at Trinity college Dublin, you think it's all universities and countries in the world that accept D.Dent or DDS, many schools still offer B.Dent and not D.Dent, some other use B.Dsc. B.Dsc. search bachelor of dental Science or dental health science at University of Griffith check out Laura Waldie, and bachelor in dental Science in the university of Queensland., https://www.wits.ac.za/course-finder/undergraduate/health/dental-science/, that's university of witwatersrand, Johannesburg, chec out about their BDsc, eventhough Pharmacy and Dentistry hasn't been accepted in all university, soon it would be like vet and medicine. Pharm.D is a new department and it will take years for the all schools around the globe to follow the trend, D.Dent or DDS is very old, and many schools and have countries accepted it, but not totally all, I also believe every universities will also follow the trend soon. It's still a 5 years course in some schools from the strart just like Pharmacy. Optometry is also a 5 years course in many countries also, but as time goes on every countries world follow the trend.

Dentistry will always be a branch of medicine and will never be as broad as medicine and pharmacy. Everything you do must be related to a small portion of the body. You have just 5 main sub-departments, because you are a department yourselves. Any other sub-departments apart from this 5 are just micro departments that is more on paper than in real life.

And the last thing, if you think only human medicine graduates can become a medical director of an health care everywhere in the world because it's common in Nigeria, then you are not current. Pharm.D is a new program, and very soon, we would fight for CMD, now there are commissioner of health that are not medical doctors, abroad it's very common. With the new pharm.D and OD, be expecting good things coming from JOHESU, we will fight for more power. Check David Pryor of Atens-Limestone hospital, who is a Pharmacist, Check Stephanie Bloom of Chilton medical care and atlantic health system, Amy Price, A nurse, of Coosa valley medical center who is the Second in command, the CPO and CNO, the first in command is the CEO, Glenn C. Sisk who isn't a medical doctor. If you want me to continue I can, Abroad Pharmacist, optometrist, Nurses and other health care professionals are becoming medical director of hospitals and clinics. You think every country is like Nigeria, I believe Nigeria is changing, gradually all this things would change.

Maid007:

@ Snowale
I believe u are pretending not to have seen this, right? Next time, say what you know and leave what you don't know. Stop embarrassing ur self.

I've seen it and I've replied, please before asking me any question, get data and search it yourself.

Maid007:

Funny. It ain't no one's fault if u or anyone feels intimidated, bro. Doctors work hard to make sure that the patient gets the best treatment he can get. And the more the number of life a doctor is able to impact positively, the more fulfilled a doctor feels. If a patient dies in the course of treatment, it wasn't the doctor's intent. I give u facts, but what I get from u are mare sentiments. I thought u could come up with something better.
@ ur last statement, nobody is dragging that with u.
Just don't spew what ain't true, just to make a point.

I said what you said, you said pharmcy has bad sides, why not spew out your Ignorance. Read you statement and tell me the fact you gave. I'm telling you about where I work. Not where my friend works as you claim, and not about where I've been to.

mannyiyke:
Medical laboratory scientists are employed in oral pathology laboratories where an oral pathologist is the one in charge. Medical laboratory scientists are not pathologists. So, they don't regulate pathology laboratories.

the med lab bodies regulated all medical laboratories in the country, including all histopathology labs, this thing is online. because someone is a pathologist in histopathology lab or Haematology lab, doesn't mean he can own a lab or be the HOD in such labs, check it yourself.

mannyiyke:
Pathology laboratory, whether, it's oral or general pathology, is not under the jurisdiction of medical laboratory science. It's under the charge of doctors and dentists who are pathologists. They have the right to set up pathology labs. There's no private general or oral pathology laboratory in Nigeria. They're all owned by government or private hospitals. And in every big government or private hospital in Nigeria, there must be a general or oral pathology laboratory. Your problem is that you're ignorant. For your information, I'm not a dental student; I'm a medical student. Every secondary government hospital has a dental clinic. General hospitals are secondary healthcare facility, and all of them have fully functional dental departments, but may not have oral pathology laboratory because of underfunding. Also, general hospitals do not have general pathology laboratory. It's only tertiary government hospitals like teaching hospitals and federal medical centres that have general and oral pathology laboratories. Go and make your finding and stop confusing yourself. Besides, 16 general pathologists compared to 4 oral pathologists are very poor in number. Give me the links where you saw 16 general pathologists and 4 oral pathologists working at LUTH. They're in charge of other parts of the body other than mouth and maxillofacial region. ENT Surgeons also send their biopsy samples to oral pathologists. You're not in the same system, and you don't know better than I do. They also send to general pathologists who subspecialized in head and neck pathology. See the link: https://www.ada.org/sitecore/content/home-ada/publications/ada-news/2013-archive/august/early-detection-advocate-cites-oral-pathologists-as-essential-to-precancer-diagnosis . I couldn't paragraph my comment because my battery is running down.

To inspect regulate and accredit Medical Laboratories(Public and Private)and
To perform such other functions as may be conferred on it by the Act.

http://web.mlscn.gov.ng/index.php/mlscn-mandate/ I give you fact with evidence, I just don't argue based on what I heard.

All med labs are regulated by mlscn. Only a scientist can head these labs and own own it.

https://nationalhospital.gov.ng/department-services/dental-department/ check the National hospital Abuja, If it has oral pathology department. And if general pathologist does their work or not

http://www.uduth.org.ng/index.php?p=laboratoriesheck
Check UDUTH, a tertiary health care, if it has oral pathology department, if oral biopsies are sent to the invincible lab or histopathology lab

Snowale:
To inspect regulate and accredit Medical Laboratories(Public and Private)and
To perform such other functions as may be conferred on it by the Act.

http://web.mlscn.gov.ng/index.php/mlscn-mandate/ I give you fact with evidence, I just don't argue based on what I heard.

All med labs are regulated by mlscn. Only a scientist can head these labs and own own it.

https://nationalhospital.gov.ng/department-services/dental-department/ check the National hospital Abuja, If it has oral pathology department. And if general pathologist does their work or not

http://www.uduth.org.ng/index.php?p=laboratoriesheck
Check UDUTH, a tertiary health care, if it has oral pathology department, if oral biopsies are sent to the invincible lab or histopathology lab

The MLSCN Act you quoted states that MLSCN regulates the practice of Medical laboratory science in Nigeria, not laboratory medicine. Oral and general pathologies are branches of dentistry and medicine respectively.

Pathology is not a medical laboratory science. And Medical laboratory scientists are not pathologists.

Only three (3) professions own pathology: Human Medicine, Dentistry and Veterinary Medicine. If you go back to the oral pathology laboratory of the University of Port Harcourt Teaching Hospital I showed you, you'll discover that a medical laboratory scientist was employed in that oral pathology laboratory, and he's answerable to the oral pathologist who is the head. You can see that it's the oral pathologist that heads the oral pathology laboratory, while the medical laboratory scientist employed there serves as a technologist. You can still go back and check it. For one to be a pathologist (be it oral, general or veterinary), he or she must pass through residency and be certified as a consultant.

Laboratory medicine isn't the same as Medical laboratory science. So, pathology is under laboratory medicine, not medical laboratory science, and it's MDCN (Medical and Dental Council of Nigeria) that accredits any pathology laboratory, while MLSCN accredits laboratories that bear medical laboratory science.

Moreover, medical laboratory scientists are just technical heads, while pathologists are the main heads. This is because medical laboratory scientists serve as technologists to pathologists who are the main practitioners of laboratory medicine.

National Hospital Abuja has an oral pathology laboratory. Oral diagnosis unit was written there. Oral diagnosis unit means oral pathology and oral medicine unit. You're just ignorant. Ask yourself what is diagnosis? It also has a dental technology laboratory. Somebody I know who is a dental technology student did her industrial attachment there. Besides, some of those people listed there are no longer working there. So, the information is not current. For example, Dr. A.A. Olaitan is now a professor and the current Dean of Dental School, Lagos State University. He was the former President of National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria I talked about earlier. He left there a long time ago. About two other consultants on that list are not working there again, and the resident doctors listed there are all consultants now. So, the department has witnessed a lot of changes not written there.

UDUTH has Dental and Maxillofacial Department comprising oral pathology, oral and Maxillofacial Surgery and other branches of dentistry. Dr. Ramat Oyebunmi Braimah works there.

Just last year, the NUC accredited the Usmanu Dan Fodio University to start dentistry. NUC wouldn't have accredited UDUSOK to start dentistry if UDUTH didn't have adequate dental centre in which oral maxillofacial unit, oral pathology unit, etc are well equipped.

I'm still waiting for the links where you saw that 16 and 4 general and oral pathologists respectively work in LUTH.

Snowale:
the med lab bodies regulated all medical laboratories in the country, including all histopathology labs, this thing is online. because someone is a pathologist in histopathology lab or Haematology lab, doesn't mean he can own a lab or be the HOD in such labs, check it yourself.

You lack facts. Didn't you see that it's oral pathologists that head that oral pathology laboratory of the University of Port Harcourt Teaching Hospital, while a medical laboratory scientist serves as a technologist there? Go to teaching hospitals and ask them who are the main (clinical) heads of medical laboratory science departments there. It's even the medical laboratory scientists that will show you the medical doctors who are the heads. A medical laboratory scientist is just a technical head.

Laboratory medicine (or pathology specifically) supersedes medical laboratory science. Histopathology, haematology, chemical pathology, clinical microbiology and immunology are all branches of pathology or laboratory medicine, not medical laboratory science.


Medical laboratory scientists are technologists. That's why their head is called a technical head, while medical doctors are the clinical heads. They used to bear medical laboratory technologists before.

Maid007:

I have come to a conclusion that the guy is not ready to learn. Smh

You're the one that's not ready to learn. I'm in the system. A pharmacy student cannot tell me (a medical student) what's obtainable in medicine and dentistry. You lack facts. You're ignorant of the practice of medicine and dentistry.

Snowale:
LUTH has more than 16 general pathologist. Now you say they are not good at diagnosing it, I'm saying they do it in Nigeria and Abroad. I thought you said they don't do it. You said someone advised people with oral cancer to visit oral pathology, because she was misdiagnosed diagnosed by a general pathologist, meaning in most instances a general pathologist does the work, in Nigeria also. The general doctors might misdiagnose, no one is above mistake, a dentist might also misdiagnose.

Like I said, most government hospitals don't even have your department. I wasn't only talking about tertiary health care. Most primary and secondary don't even have your department, talkless pathology labs. Oral pathologist can't be substituted with a general pathologist. Stop deceiving yourself, they do most of your works.

ENT surgeons sent their biopsy samples to general histopathology labs. And private oral pathology labs can only be owned by a scientist, scientists are the professional for such jobs

I didn't say that general pathologists don't read and interpret oral biopsy slides. I said that they're not good at it. They're mainly trained to read and interpret biopsy samples from other parts of the body. However, there are general pathologists who subspecialized as head and neck pathologists. But in the strict sense, oral pathologists are the main pathologists duly qualified to read and interpret oral biopsy slides, because he or she sees numerous oral biopsy samples more than general pathologists, and experience is the best teacher.

If a general pathologist does the work of an oral pathologist, why then did the Nigerian Army sponsor a dentist who is a lieutenant colonel to do a residency in oral pathology at UNTH Enugu? Stop saying what you're not sure of. Medicine needs accuracy, not guess work. That's why oral pathologists are trained to read and interpret oral biopsy slides, so as to avoid incorrect diagnoses.

Every secondary healthcare facility in Nigeria has a dental clinic. Let me ask you: have you seen neurosurgery, neurology, ophthalmology, obstetrics and gynaecology, paediatrics, urology, etc in primary tier government hospitals in Nigeria? They don't have those departments there. It's just a general medical practitioner that works there, and refers difficult cases to secondary and tertiary tier hospitals. Even neurology, neurosurgery, urology, and most times Opthalmology departments are not found in secondary tier hospitals. They're mainly domiciled in tertiary tier hospitals. On the contrary, all the general hospitals in Nigeria (which are secondary tier government hospitals) have dental clinics. It's then advanced in tertiary tier hospitals.

General pathologists are seriously involved in other parts of the body, and are not conversant with the oral and maxillofacial region. They do autopsy, receive samples from paediatrics, urology, O and G, neurosurgery, neurology, general surgery etc. So, it's not even wise to allow them to touch the oral region, to avoid confusion and misdiagnosis.

It's still the National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria and the West African Medical College which regulate postgraduate medical education, that thought it wise to have both of them. So, you don't know better than they do.

A medical laboratory scientist is not a pathologist, and therefore, he or she cannot own a pathology lab. And no medical laboratory scientist knows how to read and interpret biopsy slides or even interpret radiographs. Making histopathology laboratory test diagnosis is much more than that. The pathologist has to combine medical history, radiographs, etc, with the reading and interpretation of biopsy slides. These guide him or her to deliver an accurate diagnosis. So, it's ignorant of you to think that. They're only employed as technologists in pathology laboratories.

Snowale:
They treat minor eye diseases It's only in nigeria optometrist are not allowed to do surgery. https://www.aoa.org/about-the-aoa/what-is-a-doctor-of-optometry, after reading it, come back her to tell me if optometrist does surgeries in other countries or not.
Even in many hospitals in Nigeria, optometrist and ophthamologies should always be present in all eye surgeries. OD is a new program, unliju dentistry and as time goes on they will dominate and spread their boundaries, in some countries OD doctor does some facial surgeries. They are fighting for the right, and trust me they got OD, and very soon they will get more than that. In the past also, Dentist were like them, but now they can now make mouth. Optometrist jobs are limited in Nigeria

OD is new in Nigeria. We know they are being intimated and sidelined, the got their OD, and they will get more Soo , just like Dentistry and pharmcy. In US. They have their sepesepa department, and they are headed by Doctors of optometrist, it's very rear to see an ophthalmologists head the department.
Chech out the Optometry department of Boston's Children Hospital, and see their clinical director is a Doctor of optometry. Amy Roan Moy, OD, FAAO.
No ophthalmologist works in the department, all their doctors are OD doctors. we know how lawless Nigeria is, and as time goes one, I know Nigeria will develop, and you would be silenced.

Like I said, DDS is older than OD, you don't just expect an OD that just graduated to be the CMD. And Also, Dentists we helped, they were accepted into the game, and still most CMDs are medical doctors. Abroad there are CMDs that are pharmacist, because they have consultant pharmacist. Prof. Joanne Hirshfield, Dr. Jeffrey C. Delafuente and many others. They head colleges of medicine and pharmacy. Nigeria is developing, evil people are doing their best to stop others from improvement, and Nigeria would develop someday.

Dentist fought for doctors, and many countries abroad now take DDS.
Also, Pharmcist also fought for doctors, and many countries abroad now take pharm.D. pharm.D in Nigeria is more than 10 years. And around the world, it's more than 20 years. Pharmacist Doctors has attained great feats abroad, and they are now consultants, CMDs and Medical directors. And they are still striving hard. Nurses Abroad are now doing surgeries, and some countries are now doing DON, Doctors of Nursing, they can be consultants. Nigeria follows they Western countries because they are more developed, but when it comes to health, the medical doctors would not like only thenselves dominates the hospital.

Name certain surgeries optometrists do in America, and the links to who did those surgeries. Name facial surgeries optometrists have even done. Don't just rely on what they wrote on their website. They just tried to market their profession. It's a marketing strategy. Optometrists are only permitted in few states in the US to use laser. It's not really a big thing. What have optometrists got to do with facial surgery? I'll be glad if you post the names of those optometrists who had done facial surgery before and when they did it, please.


Optometrists don't come to theatres during eye surgery. Can you give me the link? In the past, dentists were not like optometrists. You lied. Dentistry is a branch of medicine just like paediatrics and surgery. Since 1974, the late Obong of Calabar, Prof. Elijah Henshaw (a dentist) became the registrar of Nigeria Medical Council and the Secretary of National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria. Dentists were not up to 10 in Nigeria in 1974, yet he held those enviable posts. So, you lied. Let me ask you: if dentistry was like optometry in the past, why then do dentists belong to the same Royal College of Surgeons of England, Edinburgh, Scotland and Ireland as surgeons? Why does it train dentists and award fellowships to them when they become consultants?

We saw the two oral pathologists who are fellows of the International College of Surgeons (FICS); why was it awarded to them if it's only in Nigeria that dentistry rubs shoulders with medicine? Go and learn how to lie; you've not mastered it.

Anyone can be a hospital administrator abroad, especially degree holders in public administration. However, that optometrist is not a clinical director in that hospital. I can only believe it if you give me the link to it.

No matter how you twist facts, Optometry is not recognized in Nigeria, Britain, and other European countries and they don't do surgeries.

Since you lied that dentistry was treated like optometry before, why then are dentists accorded the same privileges as medical doctors in other African countries, Asia, Middle East, etc? Google and see. So, guy, stop twisting facts.

Consultant pharmacists are not the same as consultant doctors and dentists. No post is called CMD abroad. It's called a hospital administrator, and they're mainly people who studied public administration.


No pharmacist has ever been made a chief medical officer abroad. It's strictly for medical doctors and dentists. Chief medical officer is the same as CMAC or head of clinical services in Nigeria. And I told you earlier that Dr Gary Parker (a dentist) is still the chief medical officer of MercyShip hospital. So, if dentistry was accommodated in Nigeria, why is Dr Gary Parker (a dentist) in charge of the clinical services in a very big hospital like that?


Abroad, anyone can be a hospital administrator, not a chief medical officer which is the same as head of clinical services. Only medical doctors and dentists are given that role.


If dentists fought for the doctor title in Nigeria, did Indian, Japanese, Israeli, Chinese, Bangladeshi, Saudi Arabian, and African dentists fight to be called doctors? You don't know how to lie; just go and learn it more. Tell me who else in the health sector carries out surgery other medical doctors and dentists? Google ameloblastoma and who surgically removes it. Stop embarrassing yourself with concocted lies.

Give me the links where those people you mentioned headed colleges of medicine. DDS is not the reason dentists bear doctors. India is recognized in medicine. Dentists there are awarded BDS and are called doctors. Some of them who specialized in Maxillofacial surgery in India are head and neck cancer surgeons with the same privileges as their medical doctor colleagues there. Give me the link where dentists fought for doctor. If dentists had fought for the doctor title, their degree in Nigeria would have been changed to DDS. But it's still the same BDS. On the contrary, pharmacists left B.Pharm they still bear in Britain from where Nigeria copied its education curricula, to start bearing Pharm.D, the American model.


Pharmacists abroad are not chief medical officers. They can be hospital administrators insofar as they have a diploma in administration. CMDs here are not called CMDs in America and Europe. So, African medical laws are different. In Africa, only medical doctors and dentists have the exclusive right to become CMDs.


Nurses are allowed to sew up wounds and minor surgical-like operations. It's not a genuine surgery. The exception was in a Central African State where nurses were trained as junior medical officers by doctors to carry out minor surgeries due to lack of doctors.

Pharmacy consultancy doesn't convey the same meaning as Medical and dental consultancy. They're pharmacists in old people's homes, and other places. It doesn't mean more than that. British universities don't offer those professional doctorate degrees adopted by your profession. It's of no use bearing big names that don't reflect the kind of work you do.

Pharmacists in Nigeria cannot think of how to pressure the government to improve technology and also increase funding for them so that they can master the science of drug production. Roughly 98 percent of the drugs consumed in Nigeria are imported, yet they want to bear doctors in hospitals. This shows that you're all interested in names without being productive. It's inferiority complex. Let your work speak for you, not unnecessary titles!


Note: I attached the testimony that lady gave about Prof. Ozoemene Obuekwe and other Nigerian doctors. Obuekwe is an oral and maxillofacial surgeon at UBTH. Maxillofacial surgery is a branch of Dentistry. So, Nigeria medical doctors and dentists are doing well. I would have deleted her name, but you might say that I concocted it, and that it's a lie. You can google more about Prof. Obuekwe. He's also an expert surgeon in cleft lip and palate and ameloblastoma surgery.

Snowale:


OD is new in Nigeria. We know they are being intimated and sidelined, the got their OD, and they will get more Soo , just like Dentistry and pharmcy. In US. They have their sepesepa department, and they are headed by Doctors of optometrist, it's very rear to see an ophthalmologists head the department.
Chech out the Optometry department of Boston's Children Hospital, and see their clinical director is a Doctor of optometry. Amy Roan Moy, OD, FAAO.
No ophthalmologist works in the department, all their doctors are OD doctors. we know how lawless Nigeria is, and as time goes one, I know Nigeria will develop, and you would be silenced.

Like I said, DDS is older than OD, you don't just expect an OD that just graduated to be the CMD. And Also, Dentists we helped, they were accepted into the game, and still most CMDs are medical doctors. Abroad there are CMDs that are pharmacist, because they have consultant pharmacist. Prof. Joanne Hirshfield, Dr. Jeffrey C. Delafuente and many others. They head colleges of medicine and pharmacy. Nigeria is developing, evil people are doing their best to stop others from improvement, and Nigeria would develop someday. l.

Amy Roan Moy is not a clinical director. She's a director of health center network of New England College of Optometry. It's a college of optometry. So, she has full right there. She's not a clinical director of a hospital. She was a director of Optometry (not a clinical director) of optometry for 15 years at Martha Elliot Health Centre, affiliated with Boston Children's Hospital. She wasn't a director in Boston Children's Hospital directly as you erroneously said. There are directors of pharmacy, Medical laboratory science, physiotherapy, radiography and nursing in Nigeria. So, it's an ordinary director. Clinical director means that the person is in charge of a hospital or a clinic or that he or she is a head of clinical services in a hospital or clinic. She was none of the above. However, she can also be a clinical director in an optometry clinic like the Nigerian optometrists, but she may not be a clinical director of a hospital. Why should an ophthalmologist leave his department to work in an optometry department? It's demeaning for such an ophthalmologist. Besides, it doesn't change the fact that optometry doesn't have a department in Nigerian hospitals.

Moreover, those pharmacists you mentioned don't head colleges of medicine. They can only head colleges of pharmacy.

Snowale:
You are not only lying, you are also ignorant. Check out NMA, since origination. Tell me just 2 or 3 president that is a dentist. And also MDCN, tell me 3 or 4 that is a dentist, the same for MDCAN. Better stop deceiving youself. This people are planipla to through you out. I read publications about it. You just name the very few, when we both know that some teaching hospital have never been lead by a dentist. All you do is to talk about the very few that got there through politics.

Even if all teaching hospitals have your department, general pathologist are mostly the one doing the work, only ui dentistry department has its own private lab, most others relies on general pathologists' reports. This is my personal experience.

Now that they joined you guys with then, you are now as superior as they are. Dentistry will always be a small branck of medicine weather you like it or not. And you are lucky they help you guys, now you can claim to be doctors like them, and pharmacist are not, just don't forget not all good things lasts.

When optometrist joins NMA and MDCN, you can carry you barner and protest that they are not doctors, they didn't do anatomy

Presidency of NMA is by politics. So, if you can convince people, you'll be voted for. For instance, Dr Paul Ugbodaga (a dentist) and a medical doctor contested for the chairmanship of NMA, Edo Branch. Ugbodaga was and is still very popular and influential, and he won. No urologist, ophthalmologist, paediatrician, neurologist, neurosurgeon, or ENT Surgeon has held presidency of NMA or MDCN. However, two dentists have become registrars of MDCN. They're Dr T.A.B. Sanusi (who is the current registrar) and Prof. Elijah Henshaw (the late Obong of Calabar). Then, two dentists held the president and secretary of National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria. They're Prof. Abayomi Olaitan and Prof. Elijah Henshaw respectively. Olaitan also became a vice president before becoming a president. Two dentists were also president of National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria long before Olaitan became it. I'll take time to search for their names because they're very old people and I've forgotten their names. I think the other one is Dr Jeboda. Even medical doctors who were CMDs got there via politics. Moreover, MDCN and National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria are more powerful and statutorily empowered than NMA.

As for MDCAN, many dental consultants have held it as I was told. Besides, I'm no longer a dental student to remember all these things. I'm a medical student now. I got to know these ones within the little period I studied dentistry. You should have asked yourself: how many branches of medicine have held those positions you mentioned? Some branches of medicine have not had a shot at any of those posts. In National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria and West African Medical College, dentistry, paediatrics, general surgery, urology, etc are called branches of medicine and are named faculties. So, dentistry fared well if you check other faculties of medicine too.

UI's oral pathology laboratory is not a private laboratory. Lagos, UBTH, UNTH Enugu, UPTH, etc, have public oral pathology laboratories too. Stop confusing yourself. Optometry has nothing to do with medicine and dentistry, let alone joining NMA and MDCN. Stop living in fantasy.

Snowale:
seriously, you need enlightenment. You are comparing patent store with pharmaceutical industry, are you telling me all the over 115 pharmaceutical industries in Nigeria, with different branches all over the country are just there doing notheno, they don't produce drugs. How would any Nigerian say no pharmaceutical industry in Nigeria produces drugs, chai. What you say was pharm tech., Most graduates in pharmacist sees better opportunity, they can work in pharmaceutical industries, the can work in hospitals, they can work in various government agency, that's why you don't easily see them in shops selling drugs, because we have lots of opportunities. Only few end up doing it, and still they make it in life.

Hmmmmm, set up a small clinic with just stethoscope and sphygmomanoneter. LOL. I laugh in Yoruba. You expect people to pay you for checking their heart beat and checking their blood pressure, even bigger privates hospital do shut down, some sack all nurses and doctors, just to employ those that will accept smaller salaries. Even consultants in government hospitals that have more than just stethoscope, in nigeria, who pays anything like consultation fees, because he prescribed a drug or directed me for lab test, I will pay money. It's better you quickly go to market with you rope and rent a shop, and expect people to pay you. A pharmacy is far more easier to set up compare to an hospital. You can search it yourself.

MBBS and BDS are given assistant lecturers, and pharm.d also. This is a new lecturer I know, he has only his pharm.D. and even radiography department in my school, most of their lectures don't have PDGE or masters. Talk with fact and sense please.

Many pharmacist are in pharmaceutical industry. You don't even know pharmaceutical industries in Nigeria are more than 100. Most drugs are not imported, for God sake, why can't you just check your paracetamols. Why must you show the world how ignorant you are.

Pharmacist may start from sales rep, as the lowest and as the move on, they are promoted, till they get to the point where they collect millions monthly

Name ten drugs each of the indigenous ones produces. Give me their links too. Name up to 12 Nigerian pharmacists in charge of production there, and the innumerable ones you claimed were employed there.

The real pharmacists producing the few drugs they can produce are foreign or foreign-trained pharmacists. 98 percent of Nigerian-trained pharmacists are quacks. I still maintain that 90 percent of drugs used in Nigeria are imported. How many pharmacists were employed? Give me the link. How many pharmacists own pharmaceutical shops?

Without those pharmaceutical shops mostly owned by businessmen who passed through apprenticeship, Nigerian-trained pharmacists cannot feed. Medical sales reps jobs should be for those who read marketing, not for pharmacists.

Name those assistant lecturers of pharmacy employed directly after first degree and give me the links to verify it. Pharmaceutical shops are different from patent medicine shops.

So, you don't know that thermometer, stethoscope and sphygmomanometer check vital signs, and the doctor will then extract medical history of the patients during clerking, and then decide the type of test to order. Medical science laboratories are even the ones coming to beg doctors to refer their patients to them for medical test and that they'll pay them percentages. You forgot that the patient will buy cards first. The doctor can order for x-rays elsewhere or refer the patient to teaching hospitals.

mannyiyke:
The MLSCN Act you quoted states that MLSCN regulates the practice of Medical laboratory science in Nigeria, not laboratory medicine. Oral and general pathologies are branches of dentistry and medicine respectively.

Pathology is not a medical laboratory science. And Medical laboratory scientists are not pathologists.

Only three (3) professions own pathology: Human Medicine, Dentistry and Veterinary Medicine. If you go back to the oral pathology laboratory of the University of Port Harcourt Teaching Hospital I showed you, you'll discover that a medical laboratory scientist was employed in that oral pathology laboratory, and he's answerable to the oral pathologist who is the head. You can see that it's the oral pathologist that heads the oral pathology laboratory, while the medical laboratory scientist employed there serves as a technologist. You can still go back and check it. For one to be a pathologist (be it oral, general or veterinary), he or she must pass through residency and be certified as a consultant.

Laboratory medicine isn't the same as Medical laboratory science. So, pathology is under laboratory medicine, not medical laboratory science, and it's MDCN (Medical and Dental Council of Nigeria) that accredits any pathology laboratory, while MLSCN accredits laboratories that bear medical laboratory science.

Moreover, medical laboratory scientists are just technical heads, while pathologists are the main heads. This is because medical laboratory scientists serve as technologists to pathologists who are the main practitioners of laboratory medicine.

National Hospital Abuja has an oral pathology laboratory. Oral diagnosis unit was written there. Oral diagnosis unit means oral pathology and oral medicine unit. You're just ignorant. Ask yourself what is diagnosis? It also has a dental technology laboratory. Somebody I know who is a dental technology student did her industrial attachment there. Besides, some of those people listed there are no longer working there. So, the information is not current. For example, Dr. A.A. Olaitan is now a professor and the current Dean of Dental School, Lagos State University. He was the former President of National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria I talked about earlier. He left there a long time ago. About two other consultants on that list are not working there again, and the resident doctors listed there are all consultants now. So, the department has witnessed a lot of changes not written there.

UDUTH has Dental and Maxillofacial Department comprising oral pathology, oral and Maxillofacial Surgery and other branches of dentistry. Dr. Ramat Oyebunmi Braimah works there.

Just last year, the NUC accredited the Usmanu Dan Fodio University to start dentistry. NUC wouldn't have accredited UDUSOK to start dentistry if UDUTH didn't have adequate dental centre in which oral maxillofacial unit, oral pathology unit, etc are well equipped.

I'm still waiting for the links where you saw that 16 and 4 general and oral pathologists respectively work in LUTH.

Firstly, I never said medical laboratory Science, I sent you the link, check it yourself.http://web.mlscn.gov.ng/index.php/mlscn-mandate/, they regulates all medical laboratories.

Just the 2012, the consultant pathologist if your acclaoacc became 2, just 2. And in 2015, the residency program of the hospital started with a few dentists. Who have been doing the work before? General pathologist, and I will still say it again, in many hospitals, general pathologists does the job.

The law was passed 2015, all pathology laboratories, should be headed by a medical laboratory Scientists. So anything 2016 and below you will find out 90% of all labs in all hospitals are headed by a medical laboratory Scientists.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ng.linkedin.com/in/onengiyeofori-ibama-b418a649&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwil7a7kgIjqAhXEzKQKHeoGABkQFjAEegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0tWXKwpWZJ87nBo9oe8_zZ
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ng.linkedin.com/in/maudlyn-imoh-90a32b160&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwil7a7kgIjqAhXEzKQKHeoGABkQFjAFegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0VxQ85yXar1h8TWAwWExlv

https://ni.linkedin.com/in/henry-aisagbonhi-bmls-mph-ghpcert-56176382

I sent you link of Uduth to check yourself if they have one, please if you can't give evidence for your claim, forget it. I'm not interested with what's in your head, I'm interested with what really happens

Snowale:

Firstly, I never said medical laboratory Science, I sent you the link, check it yourself.http://web.mlscn.gov.ng/index.php/mlscn-mandate/, they regulates all medical laboratories.

Just the 2012, the consultant pathologist if your acclaoacc became 2, just 2. And in 2015, the residency program of the hospital started with a few dentists. Who have been doing the work before? General pathologist, and I will still say it again, in many hospitals, general pathologists does the job.

The law was passed 2015, all pathology laboratories, should be headed by a medical laboratory Scientists. So anything 2016 and below you will find out 90% of all labs in all hospitals are headed by a medical laboratory Scientists.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ng.linkedin.com/in/onengiyeofori-ibama-b418a649&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwil7a7kgIjqAhXEzKQKHeoGABkQFjAEegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0tWXKwpWZJ87nBo9oe8_zZ
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ng.linkedin.com/in/maudlyn-imoh-90a32b160&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwil7a7kgIjqAhXEzKQKHeoGABkQFjAFegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0VxQ85yXar1h8TWAwWExlv

They don't regulate all the laboratories. I knew the information before you sent it. Pathology laboratories are not the same as medical laboratory science laboratories. That has been the bone of contention for long. They're not pathologists.

The dental department didn't treat pathology cases then; they would refer them to states or hospitals that have oral pathology. After all, general hospitals in Lagos do refer people to LUTH, whether it's medical or dental case.