₦airaland Forum

stanliwise:
Then they would use other form of dating.

Yeah!
Anything to avoid doubt on the story that billions of years ago, NOTHING exploded but created EVERYTHING.

Pelecius:
Yeah!
Anything to avoid doubt on the story that billions of years ago, NOTHING exploded but created EVERYTHING.

If you have any proof against Big Bang we scientist are glad to welcome it. If not why no wait until you have one. Big Bang is still a theory as physicist are still studying and trying to understand the event.

Vyzz:
Bro


Don't u think that if God was almighty..... We (Man) wouldn't have the slightest understanding of anything he does

GOD IS ALMIGHTY AND HE IS BEYOND OUR IMAGINATION.
'
NO ONE KNOWS GOD
NO RELIGION CAN PROOF GOD'S AUTHENTICITY


THE IDEA OF GOD IN YOUR IMAGINATION DOES NOT EXIST!!!!!!!

HitSong:
Most people are not saying that there is no God!
IT'S JUST THAT THE GOD IN YOUR BIBLE IS DEFINITELY NOT THE TRUE GOD AND THE ALMIGHTY.

ALMIGHTY GOD CAN NOT BE ALL-GOOD ( REAL GOD SHOULD BE GOOD AND EVIL)

ALMIGHTY GOD CAN NOT ALWAYS BE IN CONSTANT BATTLE WITH THE DEVIL (SOMETHING HE CREATED) SINCE THE ALMIGHTY GOD HAS THE POWER TO DO ANYTHING.

ALMIGHTY IS NOT A VAMPIRE OR A CANNIBAL THAT HE WOULD REQUIRE THE BLOOD OF AN INNOCENT MAN FOR ATONEMENT.


THE CHRISTAIN GOD IS A FALSE GOD.

Sir, if you would love to objectively review some arguments against your claims, I will be pleased to send you a link where you can read something different from what you know and weigh the arguments therein with an unbiased lens.

Pelecius:
Yes. Paleontology is part of historical science which is an origin science. It attempts to use the discovery of the fossil of an animal to construct a story about that animal and it's interaction in it's environment.

Now, you said Science is an Antonym of Christianity (I laugh WUHANically) but Science is not an Antonym of Theism. Work

Let's see the logic

1. Theism is a believe in (and existence) a Deity
2. Christian believe in existence of God (Deity)

Conclusion: (I'm sure you can complete it)

Now, checking your logic

1. Science is not an antonym of Theism
2. Christianity is theistic

Conclusion: (I'll leave it to you again)

Lol you are dishonest. That's like equating Islam to Christianity. Keep laughing Coronavirus-ally. Science is not antithetical to theism. But it's definitely antithetical to Christianity.
Theism is "I believe in God".
Christianity is "I believe in the Christian god who impregnated Mary and ordered for women to be raped and children to be killed"

The Christian god that makes claims that cannot be backed up historically by people. The one that promised to save his people by miracles but can't do anything but relies on doctors and scientists to solve the problem.

Now you think about that. I am just laughing and that your weak dishonest attempt. What a fail.

Pelecius:
Sir, if you would love to objectively review some arguments against your claims, I will be pleased to send you a link where you can read something different from what you know and weigh the arguments therein with an unbiased lens.

I am open for anything you want to share.
That's the submission of my opinion there based on the fact that THERE ARE MANY RELIGIONS AND RELIGIOUS BOOKS AND NO RELIGION CAN PROOF OR USE IT'S OWN RELIGIOUS REFERENCES TO DISPROVE ANOTHER. MORESO, PEOPLE DONT USUALLY CHOOSE THEIR RELIGION...

D4donnn:
I doff my hat for , you , you're literally the smartest person I know on this forum

You are funny, smartest keee.....Abeg oooooo...

HitSong:
GOD IS ALMIGHTY AND HE IS BEYOND OUR IMAGINATION.
'
NO ONE KNOWS GOD
NO RELIGION CAN PROOF GOD'S AUTHENTICITY


THE IDEA OF GOD IN YOUR IMAGINATION DOES NOT EXIST!!!!!!!

Exactly....

If God is almighty and beyond our imagination.... We can't comprehend anything about him...


So we can't ask why he did something he should have done the other or easier way...


We can't say he doesn't exist because we say he let something bad happened...



The ought is Las Las.


He may or may not exist but



If this believe keeps people going and strong.... Then why not let it continue.....

stanliwise:
If you have any proof against Big Bang we scientist are glad to welcome it. If not why no wait until you have one. Big Bang is still a theory as physicist are still studying and trying to understand the event.

Sir, the truth is that the theory is dead from its inception, just like the General Theory of Evolution.
It's funny that you said if there's any proof against it, "we scientists are glad to welcome it". First of all, Science is not limited to Atheist only. In fact, Christians were instrumental to founding of modern Science.
Secondly, if a Scientist provides evidence (and which they've been doing) against big bang, it would be rejected especially if the evidence tends to give credibility to what I'll call Creation Science.
These quotes from Evolutionists should give hint into why my claim is true

"We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfil many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door." (Professor Richard Lewontin)

Another from Dr. Stephen Gould says

"Our ways of learning about the world are strongly influenced by the social preconceptions and biased modes of thinking that each scientist must apply to any problem. The stereotype of a fully rational and objective ‘scientific method’, with individual scientists as logical (and interchangeable) robots is self-serving mythology."

The last quote shows again that there's bias in what folks shout "Science! Science!

Vyzz:
Exactly....

If God is almighty and beyond our imagination.... We can't comprehend anything about him...


So we can't ask why he did something he should have done the other or easier way...


We can't say he doesn't exist because we say he let something bad happened...



The ought is Las Las.


He may or may not exist but



If this believe keeps people going and strong.... Then why not let it continue.....

Christianity is keeping Europeans, their descents and others whom they could convince or brainwash strong
Buddhism is keeping the Chinese and their neighbors strong
Hinduism is keeping the Indian and their friends strong
Islam is keeping the Arabs and their friends strong...

WHICH OF THESE RELIGIONS IS THE PATH TO SALVATION OR THE ''TRUE'' GOD?

Pelecius:
Sir, the truth is that the theory is dead from its inception, just like the General Theory of Evolution.
It's funny that you said if there's any proof against it, "we scientists are glad to welcome it". First of all, Science is not limited to Atheist only. In fact, Christians were instrumental to founding of modern Science.
Secondly, if a Scientist provides evidence (and which they've been doing) against big bang, it would be rejected especially if the evidence tends to give credibility to what I'll call Creation Science.
These quotes from Evolutionists should give hint into why my claim is true

"We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfil many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door." (Professor Richard Lewontin)

Another from Dr. Stephen Gould says

"Our ways of learning about the world are strongly influenced by the social preconceptions and biased modes of thinking that each scientist must apply to any problem. The stereotype of a fully rational and objective ‘scientific method’, with individual scientists as logical (and interchangeable) robots is self-serving mythology."

The last quote shows again that there's bias in what folks shout "Science! Science!

I am also a Christian. Big Bang theory doesn’t negate God existence. Big Bang theory didn’t negate God created the earth. Remember Bible didn’t give us any explanation of the Universe and it’s theory and wisdom are for people of the earth. Science is the study of the physical world and observing it principle to reach a conclusion. Science is different from scientists. A scientist can due to his knowledge of science stop worshipping God. Science can’t be blamed, we can only say he was naive. God is the God of science. As so I am is son through Christ, I am also a scientist.

Buliwyf:
Lol you are dishonest. That's like equating Islam to Christianity. Keep laughing Coronavirus-ally. Science is not antithetical to theism. But it's definitely antithetical to Christianity.
Theism is "I believe in God".
Christianity is "I believe in the Christian god who impregnated Mary and ordered for women to be raped and children to be killed"

The Christian god that makes claims that cannot be backed up historically by people. The one that promised to save his people by miracles but can't do anything but relies on doctors and scientists to solve the problem.

Now you think about that. I am just laughing and that your weak dishonest attempt. What a fail.

Since you've decided to resort to adhominem, I won't say further again.

Peace be until you

HitSong:
I am open for anything you want to share.
That's the submission of my opinion there based on the fact that THERE ARE MANY RELIGIONS AND RELIGIOUS BOOKS AND NO RELIGION CAN PROOF OR USE IT'S OWN RELIGIOUS REFERENCES TO DISPROVE ANOTHER. MORESO, PEOPLE DONT USUALLY CHOOSE THEIR RELIGION...

I understand you sir.
Please, this is the link

https://creation.com/why-death-suffering#_Recommended_reading

You'll find links to other articles in the article for background understanding or more explanation of some concepts.

I hope you'll weigh the arguments with an open mind as you said.

Thank you sir

Pelecius:
I understand you sir.
Please, this is the link

https://creation.com/why-death-suffering#_Recommended_reading

You'll find links to other articles in the article for background understanding or more explanation of some concepts.

I hope you'll weigh the arguments with an open mind as you said.

Thank you sir

I have not opened it but I'm suspecting something...
Are you a Jehovah's witness?

stanliwise:
I am also a Christian. Big Bang theory doesn’t negate God existence. Big Bang theory didn’t negate God created the earth. Remember Bible didn’t give us any explanation of the Universe and it’s theory and wisdom are for people of the earth. Science is the study of the physical world and observing it principle to reach a conclusion. Science is different from scientists. A scientist can due to his knowledge of science stop worshipping God. Science can’t be blamed, we can only say he was naive. God is the God of science. As so I am is son through Christ, I am also a scientist.

Thank you for you humble response sir. I'm glad you know that Science does not negative God and that it works because of the idea that the universe operates according to some set laws (which only make sense if there's a law giver just as computers works because there's a program - instruction giver)

I use to be in the camp of Big Bang before I got to know that it is not coherent with my beliefs as shown by arguments from another Christian Organization (Creation Ministries International that run creation.com website) and of course, they gave an alternative which make sense to me
I would love that you check the site and go through their (more than 10,000) articles on different fields and discipline of Science and Technology. If you are still convinced with big bang, so be it and if you see their arguments to be better, it's still to the glory of God.
As they do say, it doesn't affect one's salvation. It just a thing of what ground is one standing to be able to give a good answer to questions about one's faith

Thank you sir

Pelecius:
Since you've decided to resort to adhominem, I won't say further again.

Peace be until you

Where's the ad hominem? That I pointed out the fact that you are dishonest and tried to twist things to equate theism to Christianity? Or that I called out Christianity for what it is: a lie. LMAO

Bye bye. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

HitSong:
I have not opened it but I'm suspecting something...
Are you a Jehovah's witness?

Smiles...

I'm not Sir.
I'm just a guy who was burdened with the issue of God and began looking for answers with an open mind, following the evidence wherever it leads

But why did you ask sir?

Pelecius:
I understand you sir.
Please, this is the link

https://creation.com/why-death-suffering#_Recommended_reading

You'll find links to other articles in the article for background understanding or more explanation of some concepts.

I hope you'll weigh the arguments with an open mind as you said.

Thank you sir

From your book,

The big picture is that Adam’s sin is the reason for all the death in the world. A consistent biblical answer points out that death is an intruder, so it is not part of God’s original creation, but is ultimately due to man’s sin...

That is absolutely ridiculous.
This claim DEFINITELY suggests that your God is not omniscience.

How can a God, who has all the knowledge, knows the beginning and end not know that some plans would change?
Why did he create the devil in the first place?
Why did he create the ridiculous tree.

All these nonsense are fictions created by early theologians.

Don't get me wrong though, I believe in the ALMIGHTY GOD but many of the stories about him in your Bible are very ridiculous.

HOW CAN YOUR GOD ALWAYS CONTINUE TO BE IN BATTLE WITH THE DEVIL (HIS CREATION)
AND yet, you people claim that he has power to do anything and everything,..

FuckTheWorld:
From your book,


That is absolutely ridiculous.
This claim DEFINITELY suggests that your God is not omniscience.

How can a God, who has all the knowledge, knows the beginning and end not know that some plans would change?
Why did he create the devil in the first place?
Why did he create the ridiculous tree.

All these nonsense are fictions created by early theologians.

Don't get me wrong though, I believe in the ALMIGHTY GOD but many of the stories about him in your Bible are very ridiculous.

HOW CAN YOUR GOD ALWAYS CONTINUE TO BE IN BATTLE WITH THE DEVIL (HIS CREATION)
AND yet, you people claim that he has power to do anything and everything,..

Just ignore that guy. He was strutting about the thread like he has some special knowledge that no one else has only to be sharing links from one of the most ridiculous sites and groups on the internet. He thinks no one has read them before lol.

FuckTheWorld:
From your book,


That is absolutely ridiculous.
This claim DEFINITELY suggests that your God is not omniscience.

How can a God, who has all the knowledge, knows the beginning and end not know that some plans would change?
Why did he create the devil in the first place?
Why did he create the ridiculous tree.

All these nonsense are fictions created by early theologians.

Don't get me wrong though, I believe in the ALMIGHTY GOD but many of the stories about him in your Bible are very ridiculous.

HOW CAN YOUR GOD ALWAYS CONTINUE TO BE IN BATTLE WITH THE DEVIL (HIS CREATION)
AND yet, you people claim that he has power to do anything and everything,..

You are right to ask these questions but as you read further and read related articles, you should get answers to them.
It's a voluminous book. If you read to find what you have in mind, you may spot them easily while ignoring plausible explanations for them.

Again, I want to believe that you'll read more to get more information from the other side of the debate (if you want to)

Vyzz:
Atheist say there is no God.... That the Bible isn't proof enough to make them believe there is a supreme being called GOD.....







How would they want theist to believe ịn this with little proof.....?


Modified:

First of all, u guys quoting me are annoying... U can prove ur point without insults.. My comment isn't insulting...

I didn't say I was either an atheist or a theist here... But both of them have what the hold as evidence that what the believe exist... So u can't call the other dumb because u think u are wiser...


At the end of the day which would be a very long day

You might be wrong

Better not to speak and be assumed to be foolish than speaking and removing all doubt

Pelecius:
Sure!
Before I even talk about it, I think you should know that the Bible in itself passes all criteria used to determine a historical documents than any historic source of antiquity.

Now, the field of archeology helped in confirming not just historical sites mentioned in the Bible, but even some of the events which happened in them.

Alright then, give me a verified source that can back up the event where Joshua "allegedly stopped the Sun and the moon" so the Israelites can win the war... Oya I'm waiting.

virago:
Better not to speak and be assumed to be foolish than speaking and removing all doubt

Exactly sis

Pelecius:
Thank you for you humble response sir. I'm glad you know that Science does not negative God and that it works because of the idea that the universe operates according to some set laws (which only make sense if there's a law giver just as computers works because there's a program - instruction giver)

I use to be in the camp of Big Bang before I got to know that it is not coherent with my beliefs as shown by arguments from another Christian Organization (Creation Ministries International that run creation.com website) and of course, they gave an alternative which make sense to me
I would love that you check the site and go through their (more than 10,000) articles on different fields and discipline of Science and Technology. If you are still convinced with big bang, so be it and if you see their arguments to be better, it's still to the glory of God.
As they do say, it doesn't affect one's salvation. It just a thing of what ground is one standing to be able to give a good answer to questions about one's faith

Thank you sir

Thanks for your warm response. I will check out the website

jasent:
When will this people stop disturbing us with this nonsense of millions of years?when was the earth created biko?

Calm down brother, you have a lot more to learn, when you do, you will be ashamed to ever ask such questions. Happy learning.

This thread just shows we are light years behind the Western world

Some guys are just myopic in their reasoning.They think the world revolves around them.

Centuries ago,the earth was believed to be the center of the universe,...“so called witches” were burnt to death in England, bubonic plague wrecked havoc on the human specie,cholera killed more people than any war combined,...all these and many more happened but with the help of science,man was able to conquer all

We Nigerians need to nurture the reading culture and quest for knowledge (not just Dy dx,1+1 knowledge) and stop behaving as if we know it all.

FACT: NASA confirmed the existence of UFOs this year....some set of people will still argue blindly about this...

kingxsamz:
Alright then, give me a verified source that can back up the event where Joshua "allegedly stopped the Sun and the moon" so the Israelites can win the war... Oya I'm waiting.

Sir, this your question is actually funny to me. I said already that the Bible passes all criteria for historical materials than any other materials of antiquity.
What do I mean, other materials found in that talked about event of the past are easily taken to be authentic even when most are written some hundreds of years after the event.
The fact that we can't find independent source that talks about an event in the Bible does not rule out those events. Why? We don't know if they are and didn't survive. Also if there are not, the Bible itself is a good historical source and it's not expected to have every of its event recorded by another source. This is ancient stuff where writing is scarce and where events are passed down orally.

So I can't give you any source from that time (though the passage itself said that event can also be found in the writings of Jasher - whose work may not survive) but it'll be great if we use same standard that we use for secular historical docs for the Bible. Doing that consistently will not leave grounds for any attack on it.

I hope you're not offended Sir

Pelecius:
Sir, this your question is actually funny to me. I said already that the Bible passes all criteria for historical materials than any other materials of antiquity.
What do I mean, other materials found in that talked about event of the past are easily taken to be authentic even when most are written some hundreds of years after the event.
The fact that we can't find independent source that talks about an event in the Bible does not rule out those events. Why? We don't know if they are and didn't survive. Also if there are not, the Bible itself is a good historical source and it's not expected to have every of its event recorded by another source. This is ancient stuff where writing is scarce and where events are passed down orally.

So I can't give you any source from that time (though the passage itself said that event can also be found in the writings of Jasher - whose work may not survive) but it'll be great if we use same standard that we use for secular historical docs for the Bible. Doing that consistently will not leave grounds for any attack on it.

I hope you're not offended Sir

The fact that you can't find any independent source which can verify the events in the bible clearly tells you that it's all fiction. Stories written by men who didn't understand how the world works.
Please explain how the Sun and Moon can be stopped. As if they revolve around the earth.
Besides, we have recorded history that goes way back before the alleged birth of the fictional christ.
And the bible is not an historical source, pull your head out of your ass.
Sorry if that came out rude.

Eife:


If only we could time travel, that way we will know more than we do now

The only way is to contact Aliens 1.5m light years away who are still making video of earth with light and then initiate a transfer of the data to earth with a speed faster than light. That way, we will be watching this Dinosaurs live.... Lol.

kingxsamz:

The fact that you can't find any independent source which can verify the events in the bible clearly tells you that it's all fiction. Stories written by men who didn't understand how the world works.
Please explain how the Sun and Moon can be stopped. As if they revolve around the earth.
Besides, we have recorded history that goes way back before the alleged birth of the fictional christ.
And the bible is not an historical source, pull your head out of your ass.
Sorry if that came out rude.

Smiles
There's no point trying to make you see what you've refused to see.
Your first statement should mean that every other historical materials of antiquity should be regarded as fiction because they all fail your test of finding independent source to verify them.I believe that will be laughable in the face of real scholarship.
The second paragraph is a fallacy of arguing from silence. The text never said that those bodies rotate or revolve round the earth. It only said they remained and didn't 'go down' (a common usage even up till this moment. Just like sunrise or sunset which is used by many, though not technically correct). A powerful God who created the universe and set them to operate according to fixed laws can suspend the earth's rotation. But this will be hard for those denying miracles anyway.
You said 'we have history...' Why should we trust them if they fail your own test? Why the double standard? Why the unnecessary attack on the Bible when other sources don't even match up to your very own standard?

That the Bible is not a historical source is your wishful thinking and opinion. I already stated that it passes all the criteria used for accessing historical materials more than any other of antiquity. If you are not OK with it, bring up your better criteria that should work for ALL historical sources.

Smiles... I don't have any problem with your choice of words. I understand better and I've been admonished to give my answers ...with meekness and reverence (1 Pet 3:15)

kingxsamz:

The fact that you can't find any independent source which can verify the events in the bible clearly tells you that it's all fiction. Stories written by men who didn't understand how the world works.
Please explain how the Sun and Moon can be stopped. As if they revolve around the earth.
Besides, we have recorded history that goes way back before the alleged birth of the fictional christ.
And the bible is not an historical source, pull your head out of your ass.
Sorry if that came out rude.

Ask him about if the story of Esther has any historical backing, he will be dancing around with a condescending answer and telling you to read 1000 links. When we know the history of Persia well and there no such thing recorded. Even Jews in Israel couldn't find proof for the exodus and story of Moses but Pelecius wants you to believe the bible is historically accurate.

Even the bible contradicts itself in how events occurs and the numbers stated in there. Between Kings and Chronicles there are so many contradictions that will make you laugh your ass off.

Just save your breath with people like that.

Buliwyf:
Ask him about if the story of Esther has any historical backing, he will be dancing around with a condescending answer and telling you to read 1000 links. When we know the history of Persia well and there no such thing recorded. Even Jews in Israel couldn't find proof for the exodus and story of Moses but Pelecius wants you to believe the bible is historically accurate.

Even the bible contradicts itself in how events occurs and the numbers stated in there. Between Kings and Chronicles there are so many contradictions that will make you laugh your ass off.

Just save your breath with people like that.

I've stopped replying the guy, can't waste my time quoting him.
He should ask himself why events in the bible are only found in the bible and nowhere else.