₦airaland Forum

petra1:
Firstly Abraham was the vessel God chose bring about salvation for man kind . And God entrusted Him with his oracle which he taught his family .

Genesis 18:19 (AMPC)
19 For I have known (chosen, acknowledged) him [as My own], so that he may teach and command his children and the sons of his house after him to keep the way of the Lord and to do what is just and righteous, so that the Lord may bring Abraham what He has promised him.

You can now know how Jacob his grandson got to know about tithing . That’s by the way .
We are the seed If Abraham . Abraham did not tithe under the law neither did he tithe to be justified . He is the father of faith “ who’s faith we follow” his life was by faith . So you see from the day of Abraham tithing has been instituted on the earth along with offering , worship , prayer in the worship of God .

Christians are Abraham seed





Maybe you can dig into other historic materials like writings of Josephus etc



Let’s know your finding .

Unfortunately, no records of believers tithing in the early church from "Antiquity of the Jews" written by Josephus, or Foxe's Book of Martyrs (can't remember the author)...

And yes as for Job, as a non-Jew...he had no agreement with God that his prosperity or security of his fortune was contingent on whether he tithed. That's the point I've been making here. Job was prosperous without having to tithe...well unless you have scriptural evidence to prove otherwise.

MightySparrow:
Tithe?

Matthew 25 vs 31- 40. That is the giving that we are still called to, only now it is the giving that gets one into heaven.

Notice there are no pastors or any of that sort specified. And certainly no church organizations.

Kobojunkie:
Matthew 25 vs 31- 40. That is the giving that we are still called to, only now it is the giving that gets one into heaven.

Notice there are no pastors or any of that sort specified. And certainly no church organizations.

is tithing from man or God?

MightySparrow:
is tithing from man or God?

the one practiced in the world-churches today was created entirely by men...it has absolutely nothing to do with God in design and specification.. nothing

Kobojunkie:
the one practiced in the world-churches today was created entirely by men...it has absolutely nothing to do with God.

Your answers are not always straight to the point. anyways Abraham that started tithing, was he commanded?

MightySparrow:
Your answers are not always straight to the point. anyways Abraham that started tithing, was he commanded?

Abraham never started tithing. That is a lie.

Abraham went to war with more thAn 300 of his men. On their way back, likely exhausted but victorious, they were met by a King who offered them bread and wine. In appreciation, Abraham gave the man 10% of what they had acquired from the war. And that was the end of that.

How can you say that Abraham started tithing from that story? How do you compare tithing as defined by God to that?

UgoFly:
TITHING AS REGARDS Malachi.3: 8-10
First to understand the Bible & to interpret & apply it for today's Christians we must know the DIFFERENCES Btw OLD & NEW TESTAMENT
We must know dat d Bible is divided into 3 dispensations The Patriarchal, The Mosiac & The Christian Dispensations. We must also know what's written for the Jews, Gentiles & the Church.
1. The Patriarchal age is the age of the fathers frm Abraham to Moses.
2. The Mosaic age is from Moses to Christ
3. The Christian age is from Christ's death on the cross to the His second coming
God dealt with the people in a very peculiar ways e.g. in the Patriarchal age there was no 10 commandments, in Mosaic age God gave them 10 Commandments & ceremonial laws to be obeyed. The Christian age brought in Grace & Truth
The law was our school master to bring us into CHRIST but now faith has come through Christ we are no longer under the school master. (Gal. 3:22-24).
We're not justified by law (Gal.5:4). Christ is the end of the law. (Rom.10:1-4).
If we're to practice the Old Testament doctrine together with the New Testament there will be lots of confusion as we will be required according to Leviticus 20 to stone to death fornicators, adulterers, witches, wizards, stoning to death a rebellious son Deuteronomy (21:18-21), practice several burnt offerings & sin offerings of different kinds, stone to death those who work Saturday (Sabbath day). (Numbers 15:32-36).
If a girl loses her virginity she must be stoned to death to death also (Deut 22:13-21)
Women during their monthly period will be forbidden to come to church & so many more old testament practices. But we know that Christ have nailed all these practices & laws to the cross ( Col. 2:14-16, Rom.10:4)
WHAT IS TITHE? Tithes is a practice of paying "one- tenth" of one's income or possession according to the Old Testament
ORIGIN OF TITHES. The first time the word tithe ever appeared in the Bible is in the Book of Genesis where Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek the priest of Salem. Note that Abraham paid tithes as a reciprocal gestures in appreciation/ response to Melchizedek giving food & wine to Abraham's servants on his way back from war. (Gen.14:8, 18-20). Abraham did not pay tithes to Melchizedek from his personal possessions but from spoils of war that he brought back when he went to rescue Lot his brother. (Gen. 14: 21-2 There was no law compelling Abraham to pay tithes to Melchizedek, he did it freely Abraham DID NOT PAY TITHES AS A CONTINUOUS MONTHLY OR YEARLY RITUAL, but it was a one-time event.
TITHES BECOMES LAW IN ISRAEL.
Tithes became a law in the land of Israel when the children of Israel got to the Promised Land of Cannan. God divided the land to eleven out of the twelve tribes of Israel. But to the tribe of of Levi God didn't give any portion of land, rather God gave them the tithes of which rightly belong to God, because of the services he gave them to perform in the Temple of Tabernacle (Lev. 27:30, Numb. 18:20-24) e.g the tribe of Judah where Christ came from are tithe payers, because they collected their own share of the land of Cannan & God Commanded them to pay to their brother Levi- Aaron & his descendants (Jos.15:1-5, Neh.13:12).
WHOM DID GOD COMMAND TO PAY TITHES & TO WHOM?
God told all the Nations of Israel to pay Tithes from the land he gave Num. 18:20-21). (Mal. 1:1-2, 3:7-12). We must understand that the laws of the Old Covenant & the laws of TITHES in particular wasn't given to any other tribe in the world but to Israel as a Nation (Deut. 5:1-3)
The Israelites were Commanded to pay tithe to the tribe of Levi only No other tribe in the whole world including Jesus Christ & Judah his tribe has any scriptural right to collect tithes ( Heb. 7:5, 13), rather Judah the tribe Jesus came from were tithes payers & not tithes collectors (Neh. 13:12)
FROM WHAT PROCEEDS DID GOD COMMANDS THAT TITHES BE PAID?.
Many Pastors who are tithes collectors says tithes must be paid from salaries & business profits but the Bible clearly states where tithes proceeds are to be paid.
Tithes were commanded to be paid from FARM PRODUCE of the Israelites be it ANIMALS or CROPS ( Deut. 14:22 Lev. 27:30-31). In which case God has already provided them farm lands (Jos.15:1-3). So there's no excuse for any
Israelite saying "I can't pay Tithes" or "I don't hv a land to farm".
WAS TITHE TO BE PAID WITH MONEY OR FARM PRODUCE ONLY?. God Commanded that money shouldn't be used for tithes payment but FARM PRODUCE ONLY. This is stated clearly & expressly. (Deut. 14:22-26).
God knows that money was a good medium of exchange but commanded that if all you have to
to bring your tithes(FARM PRODUCE) from a far distance to where God has put his name then you Have to sell the farm product for money but when you get to d place you have to turn the money into farm produce again & eat before the Lord (Deut.14:22-26)
HOW MANY TYPES OF TITHES ARE THERE?
God actually gave commandments to Israel to pay specific tithe for specific purposes
1. Annual or yearly tithe to be given to take care of the Levites- Aaron & other priests officiating in the Tabernacle (Num. 18:20-24)
2. Tithes every 3 years to be given for the general populace of Levites, widows, orphans, strangers & the poor (Deut. 14:22-29).
3. The priests were also commanded by God to pay tithe of tithes to God, that is the priests are to pay tithes to God from the tithes the Israelites have paid to them. (Num. 18:26-29). Note the tithes which the priests will give to God must be offered as "HEAVE OFFERING" not money offering.
DOES THE BIBLE COMMANDS TODAY'S CHRISTIANS TO PAY TITHES?.
We can clearly see from the Bible that Judaism is different from Christianity. The New Covenant is superior & better than the Old Covenant with DOES THE BIBLE COMMANDS TODAY'S CHRISTIANS TO PAY TITHES?.
We can clearly see from the Bible that Judaism is different from Christianity. The New Covenant is superior & better than the Old Covenant with better promises. Heb. 8: 6-7, 2 Cor. 3:6-16).
Bible says if the Old Covenant was perfect enough there wouldn't have been need for the New Covenant.(Heb. 8: 7-13). The Old Testament & all it stands for were mere SHADOW of things to come but the New Testament is the real image. Heb.(10:1).
Tithes & all Old Testament Practices & Doctrines have been abolished (Heb. 8:13)
(Heb.10:9) (2 Cor. 3:6-16) (Col. 2 : 14-17).
(Heb. 8: 7-13). The Old Testament & all it stands for were mere SHADOW of things to come but the New Testament is the real image. Heb.(10:1).
Tithes & all Old Testament Practices & Doctrines have been abolished (Heb. 8:13)
(Heb.10:9) (2 Cor. 3:6-16) (Col. 2 : 14-17).
Christians are not commanded to pay tithes today but to give a free will offerings as they are blessed. No levying of any kind. Give what you have.
BUT JESUS SAID HE DID NOT COME TO DESTROY THE LAW & THE PROPHETS.
This statement must be well understood not taken in isolation & out of context. Luke clarifies this issue better. (Lk.24: 45-49). In effect Jesus was not saying that he came to destroy nor re-establish the law but to "FULFILL" all that were written about him in the law of Moses, in the Prophets & in the Psalm. And Jesus Indeed has fulfilled all the prophecies concerning him, including his birth, death, burial, resurrection & ascension as prophesied.
Again in Matt. 23:23 Jesus rebuked the Scribes & Pharisees & he said woe unto them & called them hypocrites for over-emphasizing the payment of tithes at the expense of the weighter matters of the law: mercy, judgement & righteousness.
Jesus was NOT in this instance recommending tithe payment for his disciples & the New Testament Christians He was rightly addressing the Jews who were given the law he wouldn't have said woe & called his disciples hypocrites. At that time Christ will or Testament wasn't yet in full force. Christ will & Testament became fully in force & enforceable after his death on the cross because there can be no testament except the testator dies. Wills can only be enforceable after he who wrote the wills dies. (Heb. 9:15-23).
So at Christ's death on the cross the law of tithe & other Old Testament practices ceased to be effective. In effect CHRIST became the only standard of faith for Christians today & no longer the Old Testament. (2 Cor. 3:6-14)

You know what baffles me? There is no record of Jesus receiving a tithe or even any of the apostles..

movingclouds:
You know what baffles me? There is no record of Jesus receiving a tithe or even any of the apostles..

Tithing was defined for the Old Covenant for the people of Israel or maybe I should say the Kingdom of Israel since it was a part of God's constitution with His people, Israel. Yes, the agreement was that God would be there King and the Old Covenant designed as constitution of the land/kingdom.

The New Covenant is the constitution God has for His new people(children of God) and the Kingdom of Heaven.

Kobojunkie:
Abraham never started tithing. That is a lie.

Abraham went to war with more thAn 300 of his men. On their way back, likely exhausted but victorious, they were met by a King who offered them bread and wine. In appreciation, Abraham gave the man 10% of what they had acquired from the war. And that was the end of that.

How can you say that Abraham started tithing from that story? How do you compare tithing as defined by God to that?

please could you explain how and when it started?

MightySparrow:
please could you explain how and when it started?

God brought the Israelites out of Egypt, and then proclaiming He would be their God(King) and they would be His people. As King, He set about to put together His nations constitution and the tithing law was part of fhe tax/welfare system He put in place to ensure none went hungry in the land, and that the Levites who had no inheritance in the new land He promised Abraham(by His design of course) were taken care of.

Kobojunkie:
God brought the Israelites out of Egypt, and then proclaiming He would be their God(King) and they would be His people. As King, He set about to put together His nations constitution and the tithing law was part of fhe tax/welfare system He put in place to ensure none went hungry in the land, and that the Levites who had no inheritance in the new land He promised Abraham(by His design of course) were taken care of.

consider heb 7: 5 - 9

MightySparrow:
consider heb 7: 5 - 9

What about it?

Kobojunkie:
What about it?

Read

MightySparrow:
Read

i did

Kobojunkie:
i did

your deduction?

MightySparrow:
your deduction?

Paul's argument there was directed directed at the Jewish Christians so He knew best how He wanted to reach them as far as getting them to abandon the Old Covenant and fully embracing the new Covenant that Jesus Christ came with for them instead.

Kobojunkie:
Paul's argument there was directed directed at the Jewish Christians so He knew best how He wanted to reach them as far as getting them to abandon the Old Covenant and fully embracing the new Covenant that Jesus Christ came with for them instead.

Is that a honest deduction from the text?

MightySparrow:
Is that a honest deduction from the text?

If you have particular questions to ask, feel free.

What I gave you is what I came away with after reading Paul's entire argument made to the Hebrew Christians and applies even to the verses you selected.

As seeds of Abraham we should be into animal sacrifices too.

jmoore:
Never knew you were an atheist.

Something must be fundamentally wrong with most Bible schools. I wonder how their curriculum looks like.

Their curricula are probably tailored towards brainwashing rather than propagating the word of God.

petra1:
But I just showed you the scripture . So you’re sayings the epistles are not Gods word

The epistles are God's words? Are you joking? How can the epistles be "God's words" when God sent His Word to teach you what you need to know of His word, and He, the word of God told you that He ONLY will be your own Teacher... no one else can be your teacher?

The epistles are the words of people like you and me who happen to have become followers of Jesus Christ before us. The only Truth we follow is that which comes out of the Mouth of God. Every other might as well be a liar until we are able to VERIFY what is said by God's own mouth.

petra1:
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The scripture never discouraged vows . It discourages foolish vows . The issue about vows is to pay it .

Matthew 5:33-37. How do you explain what Christ is saying there?

MightySparrow:
is tithing from man or God?

The command for animal sacrifice: is it from man or from God?

MightySparrow:
Your answers are not always straight to the point. anyways Abraham that started tithing, was he commanded?

He wasn't. That was why he was recorded as doing it once, and from war booty and not his substance.

HedwigesMaduro:
He wasn't. That was why he was recorded as doing it once, and from war booty and not his substance.

He melchizedek how many times? it should be noticed that many things that later became part of the law were already being practiced. some by the nations around then, e.g. covenant making, prayer, buying and selling, worship, altars, marriage, law of inheritance.

HedwigesMaduro:
The command for animal sacrifice: is it from man or from God?

The first man to offer animals to God was Abel and there is no record that he was commanded. His family had been ousted from Eden his descendants were looking for a way back to God and in the time of Seth people started to call (pray) on God and not until the time of Noah, seventh generation from Adam, that God first called on man with specific instructions. Please study Genesis.

MightySparrow:
The first man to offer animals to God was Abel and there is no record that he was commanded. His family had been ousted from Eden his descendants were looking for a way back to God and in the time of Seth people started to call (pray) on God and not until the time of Noah, seventh generation from Adam, that God first called on man with specific instructions. Please study Genesis.

So, was Abraham commanded to give tithes? Bottom line: what's your point?

HedwigesMaduro:
So, was Abraham commanded to give tithes? Bottom line: what's your point?

No he became a reference point from which extrapolations are drawn as abel and people who called on God. Heb. 7: 1 - 10

MightySparrow:
it should be noticed that many things that later became part of the law were already being practiced. some by the nations around then, e.g. covenant making, prayer, buying and selling, worship, altars, marriage, law of inheritance.

You have to understand that the very Old Covenant was in fact the constitution that God created for the nation of Israel. Yes, God's agreement was that He be the King over the people of Israel. And He created that constitution for His rule over Isreal/descendants of Jacob, an everlasting agreement.

So yes, most of the concepts contained were not suggested to have been invented at the point that God included them in His constitution. There were other nations with their own constitutions as well. What is of importance is the fact that the one that God defined is the one those who believe in God ought to be interested in learning of and focusing in on.

MightySparrow:
He melchizedek how many times?

Abraham's one time payment of a 10% tip, after Melchizedek had fed him, and probably his men as well, with Bread and wine, on their way back from war, mind you, had nothing to do with any law in practice at the time.
Note also that the 10% tip was paid to Melchizedek after, not before the food and wine

MightySparrow:
The first man to offer animals to God was Abel and there is no record that he was commanded. His family had been ousted from Eden his descendants were looking for a way back to God and in the time of Seth people started to call (pray) on God and not until the time of Noah, seventh generation from Adam, that God first called on man with specific instructions. Please study Genesis.

Good. Various nations and peoples of the time had their own cultures and laws in place apart from the nation of Israel.

However, in the old Covenant that God made with His Nation of Israel(God's constitution) includes commands the sacrificing of animals to God.

Kobojunkie:
You have to understand that the very Old Covenant was in fact the constitution that God created for the nation of Israel. Yes, God's agreement was that He be the King over the people of Israel. And He created that constitution for His rule over Isreal/descendants of Jacob, an everlasting agreement.

So yes, most of the concepts contained were not suggested to have been invented at the point that God included them in His constitution. There were other nations with their own constitutions as well. What is of importance is the fact that the one that God defined is the one those who believe in God ought to be interested in learning of and focusing in on.

Thrash, stuff for dustbin