₦airaland Forum

OpinionCounts:
We are talking about subsidy and the absurd comparison the president gave in that regards...

You don't cherry pick comparisons...if you must compare us with saudi, then go all out to do a holistic comparison because things do not happen in isolation...

You can't tell me Saudi is paying more than me and then you forget they are living way above me in all ramifications of the word "living".

Even with the subsidy in place, we still have enough money in this country to give the citizens a decent and basic good life which is presently a dream to over 160million people out of 200million, if only the incurable lowlifes in the helms of affairs will stop looting..

You hinge everything on subsidy, that is where I fault your argument....you make it look like without subsidy removal Nigerians have no reason to expect basic infrastructural development...

It is only in this country where a man goes from having only 2million naira in his account to having 2trillion in his account in less than 4years just because he became a politician or senior government personality, yet we cry we don't have money for basic development...

My dear, like I told you earlier, with the present crop of misfits we have as leaders, if you like, give Nigeria all the money in Saudi, come back to the country after 5years, you will see nothing on ground to show for it...

I repeat, Nigeria as a country has enough money to be living a standard of life way way above the slum where we are today even with the subsidy in place.

So, if subsides go, there would be enough income to build more refinereis which means more jobs, more investment, and eventually lower prices.

It also has knock on effects on the economy. A profitable oil sector means improved production of gas, and improved power by extension. We could indirectly have lower power prices and lower electricity bills long term

Better energy supplliles means more jobs, less dependence on imported fuel, and more money flowing in

And it means also we save trillions that would have been used on sussides..which can be spent on education, railways, etc etc.


Plus one more thing....you want good leadership. Well, it starts with you demanding that your councillor, your local government chairman and your state governor does the right thing. As well as Bhari in Aso Roack. And it starts with you joining a party, and running for office and making things better. Not sitting down on Nairaland.

lazypenguin2000:
Yes, Nigeria spends millions on refinery maintenance

And they don't work because they are owned by government.

Meaning that the staff and management still get their money whether the refineries work or not because it does not matter

No, it's more than that and you have to admit it. The reason why it doesn't work is that the money is only spent on the paper, not on the refineries itself. Corruption!

Whereas if nnpc was privatised, and the subsidy went, they would be forced to work for their money. The profits earned from fuel price increase would be invested in making the refineries run well, because under privatisation, if they don't work, they would collapse financially.

That's why subsidy has to go. To incentivize increased production

Subsidy can go, subsidy can remain, I don't actually care much. But subsidy that will go out of the hand of 200 million people and end up in the hands of the few people? No way!

And by the way I don't work for government, nor do I work in the oil sector. I don't even back PDP or APC, and have never voted for either party. I started supporting subsidy removal since 2012, and my reading and thinking about the matter since then has only solidified my conviction.

Have been following the subsidy matter since the 90s and until 2012 backed subsides staying.

We're discussing economy and governance here, not politics. That's why I wouldn't bring APC/PDP stuff in, but you sounded like a pro govt. Not because you are pro subsidy removal but you wouldn't admit the bigger problem. And that's what will happen to the money saved from subsidy removal. I'm a card carrying member of APC, Buhari alone with his integrity is not enough. Our ranking in the Global Transparency index is getting worse, not improving. We can't be singing more money for the corrupt governments all the time. Government too has responsibilities to her citizens too, not just roads and rails

lazypenguin2000:
So, if subsides go, there would be enough income to build more refinereis which means more jobs, more investment, and eventually lower prices.

It also has knock on effects on the economy. A profitable oil sector means improved production of gas, and improved power by extension. We could indirectly have lower power prices and lower electricity bills long term

Better energy supplliles means more jobs, less dependence on imported fuel, and more money flowing in

And it means also we save trillions that would have been used on sussides..which can be spent on education, railways, etc etc.


Plus one more thing....you want good leadership. Well, it starts with you demanding that your councillor, your local government chairman and your state governor does the right thing. As well as Bhari in Aso Roack. And it starts with you joining a party, and running for office and making things better. Not sitting down on Nairaland.

*Plus one more thing...you forgot the most important which is, me educating folks like you on what good governance truly is, and the importance of good leaders above just more money, which is what I have been trying my best all morning to do with you. And it is very myopic and irrational of you to address someone you know nothing of who he is, as someone who is just sitting on nairaland, it tells a lot about your level of thinking.

And for your information, councillors, local government chairmen, governors, president are all called leaders...so when I say we have bad leaders, I don't know how your mind classified that, it's not my fault.

lazypenguin2000:
Subsides money are already being diverted into the pockets of a few.

Because under subsidy it is not profitable to sell fuel at government prices, the big men either lie about fuel imported or smuggle fuel to neighborhood countries and still earn their profit

Whereas if we removed subsidy...in return for high prices, we get more refineries, since the rich would want their hands in the pie,more production and eventually competition brings down the prices

Privatise Nnpc, and things get better

And the trillions saved can go into infrastructure, health, education, railways and nlc would be able to argue successfully for an increase in the minimum wage.

And there would be more jobs.

I'm done with you, thanks. More money to your government with thieves and crooks as managers

OpinionCounts:
*Plus one more thing...you forgot the most important which is, me educating folks like you on what good governance truly is, and the importance of good leaders above just more money, which is what I have been trying my best all morning to do with you. And it is very myopic and irrational of you to address someone you know nothing of who he is, as someone who is just sitting on nairaland, it tells a lot about your level of thinking.

And you should not have called me a supporter of bad governance. AND a host of other insults you gave me.I don't back bad governance, I back subsdy removal because the long term effects benefit everyone.

Subsdises are bad for the economy.

Anyway, I know where youu are coming from. In 2006, I was like you....even as late as 2011. It was when i read and started thinking...that I saw the light.

maasoap:
I'm done with you, thanks. More money to your government with thieves and crooks as managers

Have a good day, sir.

maasoap:
No, it's more than that and you have to admit it. The reason why it doesn't work is that the money is only spent on the paper, not on the refineries itself. Corruption!

And the reason why there is corruption is because there is no incentive to make the refienres profitable. So, it is better to colelct money for work not done...ince whatever you do, the cash will flow in.

Subsidy can go, subsidy can remain, I don't actually care much. But subsidy that will go out of the hand of 200 million people and end up in the hands of the few people? No way!

That's why demcoracy is hard work. aYou are suppsoed to act as a monitoring spirit on your government. We are losing enough cash from subsidy as it is

We're discussing economy and governance here, not politics. That's why I wouldn't bring APC/PDP stuff in, but you sounded like a pro govt. Not because you are pro subsidy removal but you wouldn't admit the bigger problem. And that's what will happen to the money saved from subsidy removal. I'm a card carrying member of APC, Buhari alone with his integrity is not enough. Our ranking in the Global Transparency index is getting worse, not improving. We can't be singing more money for the corrupt governments all the time. Government too has responsibilities to her citizens too, not just roads and rails

I'M pro-subsidy removal, not progoverment, thank you very much

You dont want sbsides gone because you fear the increase in prices it brings.

For me, that is a temporary thing. Once the production of fuel incrases at home as a result of subsidy removal since it is now profitable to prduce fuel at home.....prices will fall of their own accord.

Anyway, good morning.

lazypenguin2000:
And you should not have called me a supporter of bad governance. AND a host of other insults you gave me.I don't back bad governance, I back subsdy removal because the long term effects benefit everyone.

Subsdises are bad for the economy.

Anyway, I know where youu are coming from. In 2006, I was like you....even as late as 2011. It was when i read and started thinking...that I saw the light.

There you go again, "you Know where I'm coming from"? ....in 2006, you where like me?

Dude, you don't even know me! let alone to know what I'm like.

Don't you think you are making a lot of uninformed generalizations?

Who gave u the figures of cost of production of Petroleum products? We don't produce but we spend billions of naira maintaining the refineries. What do you have to say about that? We still maintain the office of the Minister of Petroleum, who happens to be the president. There is no money, but our darling daddy still receives the same salary as a sitting president and a retired officer.
Abeg, just for once be honest: was that the promises they made to Nigerians? Were you not that same person walking by the side of buhari during the ojota protest? My guy, leave that thing. No support evil. People are suffering. With people receiving less than #30k a month, if u support this move of government, please forgive me to say this, please "You are also evil".
In years to come, you won't forgive urself.

lazypenguin2000:
OPEC is weak. They accouunt for less thhan 1/3rd of oil prduction. They even have to negotiate with non members before they can brng doenn prices.

Plius we don't have functional refinereis becuse we refinne fuel unprofitably in Nigeria.

We wnt fuel to be refied at 165 naira (NNPC figures) and sell at N145 or N87 even, and we just pay the oil industry the difference? No profit. That's why the refinereis are not working because there is no incentive to make them work

If we removed sbsides, sure fuel would cost 300 naira, but NNPC would be incentivied to repair and fix the refienreis because they would now have the prfits too do so. Plus more investors would come in, and the over 50 licences issued to build private refinereis tht hve not beeen taken up would be used...

Because it is now prfitable to refine fuel

lazypenguin2000:
And the reason why there is corruption is because there is no incentive to make the refienres profitable. So, it is better to colelct money for work not done...ince whatever you do, the cash will flow in.




That's why demcoracy is hard work. aYou are suppsoed to act as a monitoring spirit on your government. We are losing enough cash from subsidy as it is





I'M pro-subsidy removal, not progoverment, thank you very much

[s] You dont want sbsides gone because you fear the increase in prices it brings. [/s]

For me, that is a temporary thing. Once the production of fuel incrases at home as a result of subsidy removal since it is now profitable to prduce fuel at home..... prices will fall of their own accord.

Anyway, good morning.

You have confused me with someone else. I will say it again, subsidy can go or remain, I don't care. My fear is not about astronomical increase in price of goods and services but what happens to the money saved from the subsidy removal. It goes directly into the pockets of the few managers inform of embezzlement, diversion and looting.

And no price of goods or services ever comes down in Nigeria, let's stop deceiving ourselves.
I quoted you again because your deduction about me was wrong

Matrixoba:
Who gave u the figures of cost of production of Petroleum products? We don't produce but we spend billions of naira maintaining the refineries. What do you have to say about that? We still maintain the office of the Minister of Petroleum, who happens to be the president. There is no money, but our darling daddy still receives the same salary as a sitting president and a retired officer.
Abeg, just for once be honest: was that the promises they made to Nigerians? Were you not that same person walking by the side of buhari during the ojota protest? My guy, leave that thing. No support evil. People are suffering. With people receiving less than #30k a month, if u support this move of government, please forgive me to say this, please "You are also evil".
In years to come, you won't forgive urself.

If we paid subsides on GSM...we won't have had the vibrant telecoms sector we have now.

My problem with subsides is the price control inherent therein. Prie coontrols prevents companies from being industrious, and makes them rely on free government money

Whereas with deregulation, coomppanies will make enough of a profit to spend on better refinereis, more refinereis, more jobs, and eventually prices fall by competiton.

I fail to see how that makes me evil

If you were running a business selling shoes, and government forces you to sell the shoes at a cost of N10000 below what you bought them for, would you have the money to increase stock, pay staff, and expand your business?

That's hoow we have been treatng the oil sector, and that is why we hhave all thoe sharp practices you mention. It is because it isn't profitable to refine in Nigeria.

If it was, all those refienery maintenance money would be spent on maintaining the refinereis....not on other things.

And thanks for calling me evil by the way.

OpinionCounts:
There you go again, "you Know where I'm coming from"? ....in 2006, you where like me?

Dude, you don't even know me! let alone to know what I'm like.

Don't you think you are making a lot of uninformed generalizations?

You are doing the same to me as welll.

Good morning.

maasoap:
You have confused me with someone else. I will say it again, subsidy can go or remain, I don't care. My fear is not about astronomical increase in price of goods and services but what happens to the money saved from the subsidy removal. It goes directly into the pockets of the few managers inform of embezzlement, diversion and looting.

And no price of goods or services ever comes down in Nigeria, let's stop deceiving ourselves.
I quoted you again because your deduction about me was wrong

So was yours. You callled me a government supporter...when I am not.

I just know a good deal when i see one.

Good morning. Nice talking wth you. I get some sharpening discussion.

Plus, one more thing. In my heart, I am a socialist. I would love it if i was in charge of this country. Fuel would sell at N20 PER LITERR, and power would sell at N10 PER KWH.

But it would mean havng to take more loans to do so. And eventully the economy would collapse.

lazypenguin2000:
So was yours. You callled me a government supporter...when I am not.

I just know a good deal when i see one.

Because you deliberately refused to address our main concern which is corruption. You did that on purpose, why?

Good morning. Nice talking wth you. I get some sharpening discussion.

Plus, one more thing. In my heart, I am a socialist. I would love it if i was in charge of this country. Fuel would sell at N20 PER LITERR, and power would sell at N10 PER KWH.

But it would mean havng to take more loans to do so. And eventully the economy would collapse.

The country will not collapse because you sell fuel at N20 per litre and electricity at N10 per unit but will collapse if you don't address what put us in this situation in the first place. Nigeria government can sell fuel at N500 per litre and electricity at N200 per unit, the economy will still collapse if we don't find a better way to stop the mega looting of our common resources

maasoap:
Because you deliberately refused to address our main concern which is corruption. You did that on purpose, why?



The country will not collapse because you sell fuel at N20 per litre and electricity at N10 per unit but will collapse if you don't address what put us in this situation in the first place. Nigeria government can sell fuel at N500 per litre and electricity at N200 per unit, the economy will still collapse if we don't find a better way to stop the mega looting of our common resources

You thnk badly of me beause you don't understand my point.

Good morning.

lazypenguin2000:
Ten to twenty years from now, Nigeria would be prosperous and successful, easch and every region would stand on its own, then we can safely talk restructuring without worrying about war.

eyaaaa! All i will say is that 10 to 20 years from now, you will realise that idealism and pragmatism/ reality esp as far as naija is concerned, aren't birds of a feather.

Take it to the bank, as long as we collectively refuse to admit that things aren't right and we keep recycling these calamities as leaders, una go hope till Jesus comes back. Nigeria will not get better! 60 years no traction, it is now in 10 to 20 years that meaningful movt will happen. Yinmu.

Gilbertase:
eyaaaa! All i will say is that 10 to 20 years from now, you will realise that idealism and pragmatism/ reality esp as far as naija is concerned, aren't birds of a feather.

Take it to the bank, as long as we collectively refuse to admit that things aren't right and we keep recycling these calamities as leaders, una go hope till Jesus comes back. Nigeria will not get better! 60 years no traction, it is now in 10 to 20 years that meaningful movt will happen. Yinmu.

Actually i agree with you

The leaders have to go. All of them. We need new blood (Like you, you couuld be the next new thing we are looking for)

I also agree subsides have to go to make our oil industry more profitable, and to use the subsidy savings to make our education, health and other sectors work, and to stop taking loans.

Mattressdoctor:

You get to compare the oil prices between Nigeria and Saudi Arabia but forgo the comparism of other things in Nigeria to Saudi Arabia.
Funny.
I am still the matterress doctor.

You dey mind the oponu, Saudi Arabia minimum wage is 3000saudi riyad, which is 305k naira, the mumu thinks we don't have certificate like their dullard Messiah

lazypenguin2000:
Actually i agree with you

The leaders have to go. All of them. We need new blood (Like you, you couuld be the next new thing we are looking for)

I also agree subsides have to go to make our oil industry more profitable, and to use the subsidy savings to make our education, health and other sectors work, and to stop taking loans.

Total overhaul

SmartPolician:
Who wrote that speech for this clueless man?

That person doesn't like him one bit

I see the idiot Lai Mohammed hand writing in the speech

That speech is really dumb, didn't they read it through before presenting it?

Believe the politicians at your peril. How do other countries use in operating their functional refineries? Why maintain a refinery that you know is not working and can never be functional? What happens to building refineries across the country promised in 2015? Do you know that the money expended on the maintenance of the refineries since 2015 is enough to build more than 3 refineries that are operational? What we lack is integrity. Even if it sells for N500 per litre, the system will not improve. We have the resources to sell petrol lower than N100. Just visit any of the politicians and see the frivolous life they are living at our detriment. I met a politician's daughter in Austria some years ago. I knew since then that greed is our problem. They are greedy. Do not defend them because they do not mean well for you. They are the ones who will tell you that subsidies is a crime. They are also the ones having the companies receiving the subsidies. Abeg, leave those guys and focus in improving yourself.
By the way, apologies. I do not meant that you are evil. Best wishes.

lazypenguin2000:
If we paid subsides on GSM...we won't have had the vibrant telecoms sector we have now.

My problem with subsides is the price control inherent therein. Prie coontrols prevents companies from being industrious, and makes them rely on free government money

Whereas with deregulation, coomppanies will make enough of a profit to spend on better refinereis, more refinereis, more jobs, and eventually prices fall by competiton.

I fail to see how that makes me evil

If you were running a business selling shoes, and government forces you to sell the shoes at a cost of N10000 below what you bought them for, would you have the money to increase stock, pay staff, and expand your business?

That's hoow we have been treatng the oil sector, and that is why we hhave all thoe sharp practices you mention. It is because it isn't profitable to refine in Nigeria.

If it was, all those refienery maintenance money would be spent on maintaining the refinereis....not on other things.

And thanks for calling me evil by the way.

Matrixoba:
Believe the politicians at your peril. How do other countries use in operating their functional refineries? Why maintain a refinery that you know is not working and can never be functional? What happens to building refineries across the country promised in 2015? Do you know that the money expended on the maintenance of the refineries since 2015 is enough to build more than 3 refineries that are operational? What we lack is integrity. Even if it sells for N500 per litre, the system will not improve. We have the resources to sell petrol lower than N100. Just visit any of the politicians and see the frivolous life they are living at our detriment. I met a politician's daughter in Austria some years ago. I knew since then that greed is our problem. They are greedy. Do not defend them because they do not mean well for you. They are the ones who will tell you that subsidies is a crime. They are also the ones having the companies receiving the subsidies. Abeg, leave those guys and focus in improving yourself.
By the way, apologies. I do not meant that you are evil. Best wishes.

Under a participatory democracy your job is to monitor the politicians to see if they do their job right.

If everyone did that, there won't be as much looitng as there is.

I am not defending them, I am defending the idea of a prosperous society via capitalism.

Good afternoon.Apology accepted .

Obidon1:
Buhari have finished us

has finished!!!

i could remember some years ago this president is crying for power but,the power had been given to him now see was he had turned Nigeria to now

Two different places God help us all

themanderon:
.

There is no money but there is just enough for them to loot and stash away in foreign lands? Please don't allow them to fool you. Ask yourself how come we built 4 refineries when our income from oil was small but when our income became astronomical we have not added a single extra refinery? Why where the refineries deliberately grounded and left to rot despite the billions spent on maintaining them? Do you know how much NNPC is generating?
Please don't allow these devils we have as leaders deceive you. No government in Nigeria has ever had the interest of people at heart. They are only good at pilfering and making laws that justify their criminality.

Do you know that Nigeria income from oil in 1980 is far more than today? If nothing else the value of $1 of that era will buy you what $20 will get you today.

No to then talk of population issues.

maasoap:
I'm done with you, thanks. More money to your government with thieves and crooks as managers

The economic principle of subsidy removal is sound.

The issue of corruption with respect to the saved money is a TOTALLY SEPERATE MATTER, which as Nigerians we have to solve.

Unfortunately it won't get solved because we are docile. Only George Floyd and a few other blacks were killed and America that has everything erupted!!

Politicians RAPE us violently daily, yet we do nothing and continue to hail them, looking for our own corrupt deals from them.

SmartPolician:
Come and beat me.

The union leaders are far knowledgeable than you are.
Fuel subsidy has to go so that some unscrupulous elements won't be gaming the system.
That's what Goodluck Jonathan did a long time ago, but some senseless Nigerians kicked against it.
Besides, markets react to such pay rises.
Grow up!

Expired arguments...
You sound like am the only one affected by Buhari clueless sailing. I buy expensive fuel. you buy expensive fuel. it's paining me, it's paining you. booooooo!
I go to market, I buy a bag of rice for 30k. you buy a bag of rice for 30k. oinnnnn!
To get foreign exchange, u change 500 naira for one dollar. I do the same. e dey pain you, e dey pain me.
whether you blame Jonathan or I suggest Buhari isn't doing enough, e dey bite all of us. uhuuuuuuu!
We all die here. And maybe,vi even feed better than you. Buhari is going nowhere. we all die here.. hahahaha

I love your analogy. It is completely correct �.
Many thanks. Best regards.

Under a participatory democracy your job is to monitor the politicians to see if they do their job right.

If everyone did that, there won't be as much looitng as there is.

I am not defending them, I am defending the idea of a prosperous society via capitalism.

Good afternoon.Apology accepted .

Idiots

If ever read a word of this their foolish reply, then am an idiot too

Fraudulent sell outs.

Clowns

Kingrefreshed:
My own be say anyday I jam Buhari for junction I most commot em teeth.

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