Kabe1 you've done well by analysing the risk factors in Nigeria Defence and Security.
Nigeria needs more helicopters for this kind of conflict we are facing More Mi-17 like 6 units more and tactical helos like the bell helicopter, and our remaining mi-35.
I think Nigeria needs the jf-17 for regional dominance , like we can strike terrorist wherever they are as far as Niger Mali border which we don't have the range, for now.
We should provide for more Signals Intelligence Aircraft and EW.

JohnEagle96:
Kabe1 you've done well by analysing the risk factors in Nigeria Defence and Security.
Nigeria needs more helicopters for this kind of conflict we are facing More Mi-17 like 6 units more and tactical helos like the bell helicopter, and our remaining mi-35.
I think Nigeria needs the jf-17 for regional dominance , like we can strike terrorist wherever they are as far as Niger Mali border which we don't have the range, for now.
We should provide for more Signals Intelligence Aircraft and EW.

The Bell 412 is a fantastic helo, but we have the A109 which plays the exact same role as the Bell 412 in service. As much as I like the 412, I'll say me go for at minimum 10 more units of MI-17, 7 more units of MI-35M before the Bell 412.

Imagine the number of soldiers the MI-17 can carry.

We don't have the range for now, but remember that NAF fighter jets have operated from bases in Niger republic.

When we went to Mali our Fighter jets were based in Niger republic, when we went to Gambia, our jets were based in Senegal. So we really have options.

We need a 4+ generation aircraft, that's why I recommend we upgrade our F-7 jets, while we properly access our options.

I don't think the JF-17 is good enough for Nigeria.

kabe1:


The Bell 412 is a fantastic helo, but we have the A109 which plays the exact same role as the Bell 412 in service. As much as I like the 412, I'll say me go for at minimum 10 more units of MI-17, 7 more units of MI-35M before the Bell 412.

Imagine the number of soldiers the MI-17 can carry.

We don't have the range for now, but remember that NAF fighter jets have operated from bases in Niger republic.

When we went to Mali our Fighter jets were based in Niger republic, when we went to Gambia, our jets were based in Senegal. So we really have options.

We need a 4+ generation aircraft, that's why I recommend we upgrade our F-7 jets, while we properly access our options.

I don't think the JF-17 is good enough for Nigeria.

7 of our F7Ni have been sent to china for overhaul and upgrade according to CAS

kabe1:
After so many years of waiting, the JF-17 Thunder multirole 4th Gen fighter jet is coming to Nigeria.

Here are my thoughts on the purchase.


The JF-17 is a capable modern fighter jet, comparable in capabilities to the Gripen C/D version currently in service in South-Africa.

The JF-17 is a modern Chinese plane which is also produced in Pakistan by PAC. It is an all weather, day & night 4th Gen platform which has the capability to deliver almost all modern Chinese built air munitions, including dumb/ free fall bombs.

The fighter jet features an open design, so in theory can carry Western avionics, Chinese and Russian avionics as per customer requirements.

It has a top speed of mach 1.6, the jet features very modern EW systems, it can carrying targeting pods, air refueling capabilities and has 7 hard points.

It is powered by a single RD-93 (MIG-29 engine) delivering 19,000 lbf with after burner.

A good jet.

However, the JF-17 is a tad too late for a country like Nigeria.

The JF-17 does not provide the Nigerian Air Force with capabilities the service doesn't currently have. The threats Nigeria currently faces are asymmetrical in nature, Low Intensity Conflict.

For these threats we have Alpha Jets ( some upgraded with modern avionics), L-39, F-7NI, Super Tucanos and UCAVs.

So getting a JF-17 Block II which doesn't really add any special capability to our current inventory might not be the best decision.

Where Nigeria has a significant shortfall is in Air Policing, Air Defence, Air to Air combat.

In this area, the Nigerian Air Force only has F-7NI jets, a 3.5 Gen, MIG-21 derivative.

The JF-17 clearly outclasses the F-7NI, but in the age of the F-35, SU-57, SU-35 and Rafale, both jets (JF-17 and F-7NI) are dinosaurs of a by gone era.

Perhaps, this explains the decision why the Nigerian Air Force is getting only 3 units of the JF-17.

It also might explain the reason why the service is not in a hurry to get them.

Perhaps the Nigerian Air Force currently has eyes set on the JF-17 Block III, but then, apart from a lone prototype, the JF-17 Block III doesn't exist.

Even if the JF-17 Block III exists, it needs to reach FOC ( full operating capability) with it's country of origin before it can be considered for export.

It would have been much better if Nigeria invested the cash used in sourcing the JF-17 on additional MI-17 (12 units) and completed the order of MI-35M, while we upgraded the F-7NI's in service.


In my opinion the NAF should have waited for sometime, then procured the MIG-29M from Russia, perhaps 18 units.

The JF-17 is a capable 4th Gen jet, but I question the jet's relevance in the air battles of today.

comparable in a sense that it's also a single engine light multi role fighter..... That's where the comparison stops

Exclusive: Inside the secret world of US commandos in Africa

Investigation reveals the scale of operations of America’s elite combat troops in Africa

United States Special Operations forces (SOF) — including Navy SEALs, Army Green Berets and Marine Corps Raiders — are the US military’s most highly trained soldiers, specialising in counterterrorism, counter-insurgency, and “direct action” combat raids, among other missions. Their operations are shrouded in secrecy.

Although US commandos operate on the African continent with the agreement of host governments, ordinary Africans are rarely told about the full extent of US activities — nor offered a say in how and why Americans operate in their countries. Even basic information, like the sweep and scope of deployments by elite US troops and clandestine combat by American commandos on the continent, is mostly unreported across Africa.

But a Mail & Guardian investigation can, for the first time, reveal where US special operators have been active on the African continent — and offer exclusive details about low-profile missions that have been largely kept under wraps.

In 2019, US Special Operations forces were deployed in 22 African countries: Algeria, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Cape Verde, Chad, Côte D’Ivoire, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Ghana, Kenya, Libya, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritania, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Somalia, Tanzania and Tunisia.

This accounts for a significant proportion of US Special Operations forces’ global activity: more than 14% of US commandos deployed overseas in 2019 were sent to Africa, the largest percentage of any region in the world except for the greater Middle East.

These figures come from information provided to the M&G by the US military’s Special Operations Command and Africa Command (AFRICOM).

http://atavist.mg.co.za/inside-the-secret-world-of-us-commandos-in-africa

jln115:
comparable in a sense that it's also a single engine light multi role fighter..... That's where the comparison stops

That's a debate we will have another day, perhaps when the jets arrive in Nigeria.

South-African military police

kabe1:
Armed thieves stealing from a South-African soldier in uniform, in broad day light.

Pretoria, South-Africa

Actually, those are police arresting a soldier who ran from a roadblock.

Tunisia to buy F-135 engines... for some reason...

kabe1:


That's a debate we will have another day, perhaps when the jets arrive in Nigeria.

There is no debate.........The Gripen has outclassed fighters like Rafale, F16, F15, Typhoon ect ect in exercises like Red Flag.....

jln115:
There is no debate.........The Gripen has outclassed fighters like Rafale, F16, F15, Typhoon ect ect in exercises like Red Flag.....

Lurker4Long:
Some free advice: if you're looking for bad news in SA, there's enough in the reputable media.
There really is no need to trawl through racist white supremacist websites, which twist facts and lie.

Amen

kabe1:

Just facts mate google if you don't believe me

For those who might be interested in the JF-17 Block 1 comparison to the Gripen C/D

Lurker4Long:
Some free advice: if you're looking for bad news in SA, there's enough in the reputable media.
There really is no need to trawl through racist white supremacist websites, which twist facts and lie.

If I wanted to post bad news in RSA I know where to look. Stop whinning and crying all the time.

Luckily for us the days of 'monkey equipment' are over with the death of the USSR! This are deliberately downgraded export grade models despite what catalogs and field tests proclaim. Rmbr Saddams T-72s? They were locally made from Polish kits with inferior armour and suffered accordingly confronting M1 AIs.

Export variants of Soviet military equipment were versions of Soviet military equipment (armored vehicles, airplanes, missiles) of significantly inferior capability to the original designs and intended only for export.[1] Monkey model was the unofficial designation given by the Soviet Military to such variants. The monkey model was exported with the same or a similar designation as the original Soviet design but in fact it lacked many of the advanced or expensive features of the original.

Monkey-model weaponry was used mainly by non-communist Soviet allies, such as Egypt, Iraq and Syria. Eastern Bloc states such as the Warsaw Pact countries and other Communist allies such as Cuba and Vietnam generally used fully capable versions of Soviet weaponry, although poorer states often used earlier generations of weapons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_variants_of_Soviet_military_equipment

Serious buyers like Algeria wouldn't have suffered such swindling,though. The death of communism has also shown the need to fully meet sales agreements including after sales,an area which traditonally Russia neglects as the late much lamented nemesis8u detailed during the IAF dealings with the former over Su 30 production.

The West still practices an unofficial version of this practice:rarely will they supply equivalent models to non Anglo Zionist nations. Look at the Pakistanis and how they suffered downgraded avionics suites with their F 16s.

kabe1:
For those who might be interested in the JF-17 Block 1 comparison to the Gripen C/D

couple things........firstly the your comparison you got from a blog got the Gripen G-load wrong.........its +9/ -4 not +8.5 / -3 ...........secondly the take off distance for the JF17 is incorrect its over 600m not 450m

Also other things not mentioned:

The Gripens :
Much superior RCS
Much superior HMD
Much superior avionics
Much superior EW suite
Much Superior Wing loading
Much Superior Manoeuvrability
Much Superior climb rate
Much superior Radar
ect ect ect

WVR: the gripen is thee best fighter in the world, it has the highest sustained and instantaneous turn rate of any fighter, a G load of +9/-4 which is more than any fighter , AoA which is higher than that of any fighter

BVR: gripen C/D has the lowest RCS of any non Stealth Fighter, the PS/05a mk3/4 can detect a 0.4/0.1m2 target at 120km, its armed with thee most deadly BVRAAM in the world namely the Meteor!

Raaven:


yes fighting against your own population insurgency is not easy , conventionnal army strategy and equipments are useless . even mighty US struggled to stop taliban in afghanistan or insurgency in Irak .

for algeria terrorism and insurgency in 90's beguining 2000's. it was a dirty war . 150.000 to 200.000 killed . beside rising rural militias to fight for there towns , the infiltration of terrorist groups by the secret services, there is even reports about secret service agents committing atrocious crimes against population disguised to discredit islamists.

and to finish , the final blow came from politics with Charter for Peace and National Reconciliation , that bring closure to the Algerian Civil War by offering an amnesty for most violence committed in it. a lot of insurgent , terrorists laid down their arms and returned to civilian life. also an economic strategy to develop poor regions where terrorists were recruting there people . after that, only the hard core of terrorists remained, and it had become easier to crush them after .

What was the role of France in all this?

kabe1:
Nigerian made self propelled artillery systems.

Or better categorized as Nigerian modified artillery systems, all based on the 105mm artillery.

A good start! The 2nd truck though lacks the clearance to be anything but strictly road bound.

Raaven:


most modern jets cost thousand dollars per hour to fly .

it cost 44.000 dollars per hour to fly for an F35 they are trying to reduce it to 25.000 dollars for 2025 but according to some source it will be difficult .
https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/05/02/one-of-the-f-35s-cost-goals-may-be-unattainable/

for exemple the flight cost per hour for the sukhoi 35 is also expznsiv around 36.000 dollars per hour .
a rafale around 28.000 dollars per hour

for cost per flight hour , the price is not only for the fuel but also consumable supplies , operation and maintenance , system improvements , unit level manpower needed, depreciation ...

and for the F35 with all the new technology on it, difficulties getting spare parts , its not supprising to be more expensiv . for exemple an F35 pilot helmet alone cost $400,000

Precisement! This is why Uganda's remaining Sues are stuck on the tarmac. A reliable source says they haven't flown regularly since 2017 with the flyguys making do with simtime. That's why I smile at all the wishlist posts: Su 35s/57s/Rafales etc,etc.

kabe1:


The Bell 412 is a fantastic helo, but we have the A109 which plays the exact same role as the Bell 412 in service. As much as I like the 412, I'll say me go for at minimum 10 more units of MI-17, 7 more units of MI-35M before the Bell 412.

Imagine the number of soldiers the MI-17 can carry.

We don't have the range for now, but remember that NAF fighter jets have operated from bases in Niger republic.

When we went to Mali our Fighter jets were based in Niger republic, when we went to Gambia, our jets were based in Senegal. So we really have options.

We need a 4+ generation aircraft, that's why I recommend we upgrade our F-7 jets, while we properly access our options.

I don't think the JF-17 is good enough for Nigeria.

The jf 17 might not be good enough but it's still better then an upgraded F-7n

Why is no one looking at China j16 and j20

marvin906:



The jf 17 might not be good enough but it's still better then an upgraded F-7n

You fly a Jet for 30 - 40 years after you buy it.

It's not usually a rushed decision, you need to make the right choice.

I don't think in 2021 that the JF-17 is the right choice for the air force for the next 30 - 40 years.

marvin906:
Why is no one looking at China j16 and j20

They are not currently for export.

The J-10 might be available though.

kabe1:


You fly a Jet for 30 - 40 years after you buy it.

It's not usually a rushed decision, you need to make the right choice.

I don't think in 2021 that the JF-17 is the right choice for the air force for the next 30 - 40 years.

Not disputing that fact..
For NAf not buy more of it means they aren't really that interested it..
Saying they should go for the su 30 is a little bit far fetched the best option is the mig

kabe1:

They are not currently for export.
The J-10 might be available though.

The j10 is useless is not even multirole

marvin906:



The j10 is useless is not even multirole

Lol, what!!!!!

kabe1:

Lol, what!!!!!

I meant is not a deep strike aircraft so no need

marvin906:


I meant is not a deep strike aircraft so no need

I agree with this, however it's a 4+ generation aircraft, especially the J-10C.

In fact the JF-17 borrowed quite a lot of it's capabilities from the J-10.

SDB3 update anybody?

kabe1:

leave the guy alone, according to him, Egypt cannot defeat SA in war because the later has got link za an EW system.

If you mention jf17, he loses control like he was paid to fight Indians battle