Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It - Christianity Etc (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 6:36am On Jan 31, 2021*. Modified: 12:27am On Feb 01, 2021 |
Eviana:Thank you for the response. I really appreciate. Kindly ignore the naysayer. Responding to him/her will only lend credibility to the pile of trash he/she spews out on this forum. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 6:39am On Jan 31, 2021 |
Eviana:I understand your passion from your posts. They are genuine. I know. But the truth is that I get confused many time cos I believe action speaks louder than voice. Your actions many times say contrary to your words. Anyway, I want you not to think I hate you or i am attacking you. No. Look deeply into my posts, and you will see that "war" and "violence" are what I am guarding against. And I must be neutral. Of course, a believer knows some things are right, but to not incite war, there are better approaches. Also, timing is another factor. Is the time right? Is God sending me to be plain and blunt? And many things one must check. Doing the right thing at the wrong time is not even accepted before God. The lead of the Holy Spirit is more important. Have you ever written back or responded to a post/email out of annoyance without allowing God to lead you? I have, and I regretted it. Well, if you love my country, then, you must be willing to go deep into "dark" side of it. One of the dark sides is Fulani heardmen issue. What you read online are results of long years of unaddressed dark issues. And you just keep reading bla bla bla bla online. You willl never get the real truth. Nigeria is like a chess game. There is something God has for you in this nation. Only you can know if you do the perfect will of God. And I am sure God has strategically positioned people to help you, but perhaps you are not leveraging on them all well. You need to look back and make adjustment if this is the case. The root of Nigeria was in 1914. When you are able to study this particular year successfully, then, you will be moved to read what happened prior to this time to get what happened this year. Then, you move on and get to 1960. And then it gets excited and terrible - On 6 July 1967, a bomb exploded. It was the peak of it. And the bomb was so destructive. BOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!! What happened? It was too late. Nigeria is a shadow of herself till date cos of the year 1914. I cry alone cos of Nigeria in my closet many times. In my own opinion, a God ordained unity was destroyed and a man made unity was set up out of man's selfishness. But a good story is coming put of it soon. Just like how the messiah came out of a manger, something good is coming out of Nigeria. I know it. And it is why God has put such passion in people like you. I can imagine the many millions out there with a strong passion for Nigeria. You just cannot ignore the work of smart Nigerians abroad. Not possible. And one begins to wonder why is Nigeria in a mess. And funny, the whole world knows that the day Nigeria lifts herself up again, the whole of Africa is rising up with her. Everyone knows this truth. They have tried all northern Africans, and failed. They even tried South Africa, and they failed. They tried Ghana and failed to. They have soon realised that there is something special about Nigeria. No one can help her, but her people. Will Nigerians ever understand this? Meanwhile, we need to check time bombs like this useless OP. I have realised God has not sent me to release more than this to you or to anyone in this forum at this particular time. I want to continue, but I am a sensitive man. I pray again, you make yourself available and able to receive the truths you have been looking for cos I dont see that patience and sensitivity in you yet to receive it all. And only those who are ready can really understand NIGERIA. God blessed! |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 6:47am On Jan 31, 2021 |
iyambz:I can see you are sent from the bottom of hell pretending to be a sheep among wolves. Listen to me, I will find you. Yaba left is your home. Mark my words. Your disease will be diagnosed, and we will go online to ask Nigerians to help raise fund to treat your ma.dness. Nigerians I know are generous. They will donate. We do not want WAR again. If you want war, pack your load and leave Nigeria. I will treat your "f.......k up". I promise you. Mark my words. A wolf in the clothing of sheep you are. That coconut head of yours, this toddler will continue hitting hard till you receive sense. You will learn how to pass your messages across without instigating trouble. Do you hear me? You will learn to calm yourself and not form over "spiri kon ko". Thank God you are not one of those who work with mods with other fake accounts and they start deleting posts to cover their own mess. I will tackle you till you receive sense; else, las las.....Yaba Left awaits you. I promise you. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Eviana(f): 7:24pm On Jan 31, 2021 |
iyambz:Just to be impartial and also give a suggestion, the bolded words could be omitted also. I have "0" control over anyone, so you choose what you want to do. Sometimes the hardest thing to practice is temperance (self-control) and not retaliate or avenge oneself. You know, not behave in the same manner that reflects one's opponent. Christianity, in this case, has to be practical. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Eviana(f): 7:47pm On Jan 31, 2021*. Modified: 8:16pm On Jan 31, 2021 |
PeaceLoveJoy:Praying for you sir..... Yes, I love my birth country. Yes, I now love my bi-cultural genes. Yes, I have a burden for this my "other" country. Yes, I am praying for this my "other" country. Yes, I respect the office of the president. Yes, I am praying for my former president. Yes, I am praying for my newly elected president and vice-president. Yes, I do not agree with everything that Iyambz has written... which is why I conversed with him in a civil manner..& vice-versa. Yes, he may have some problems with my denomination..which he is free to have. I have written enough comments, created enough threads, posted enough videos and left enough book quotations for anyone wanting to know my denomination. See, this isn't about showcasing a denomination for clout.... If I were afraid of what people thought of me, my denomination or my walk with Christ, I most definitely would not have continued being a member on this forum for 4 years...as tumultuous as it has been. Christianity is about Jesus Christ first and foremost...and everything else comes gradually. Iyambz is completely free to create a thread on my denomination if he wants to. That's his God-given right to do. I will not explode if he decides to take issue with my denomination anymore than I do when other religions attack Christianity...(which is the theme of the Religion section). What I have always done and will continue to do is post a question or comment if needs be. From the 2-3 threads that I have read from him thus far, those led me to believe that he is striving to serve Christ. Sure he and I disagree on some of hid approaches and will probably (in the future) on some doctrines, but what I won't do is condemn him or think that he was trying to start a religious war. If he is insincere or false, then God will ultimately deal with him. Sir, my apologies for saying that you were briefly defending me... I get it...you were NOT doing so. I will say it again: you were NOT defending me. You also DO NOT know me....and do NOT want to know me....for the record. I'll let these be my last words with you in order to not continue down this path. I have "0" desire to argue or debate anything.... May you surrender to the Lord... He's still patiently waiting. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 8:20pm On Jan 31, 2021 |
Eviana:Exactly, you should not have jumped into his defence because you dont understand the culture here. I have read where people told you religion is delicate in Nigeria, but you are not ready to listen to anyone. I am still going to reply your last comment. You should not jump into what you do not understand.i doubt it if you have ever visited Nigeria, yet you talk and write authoritatively like you know all here. I am sure you will be bold and stand like a warrior to defend the US when I talk without knowledge about your nation. Of course, i know how Americans are. They will say it boldly that one is not American. Madam, you have not been to Nigeria, and what you know is what you read here only. So, try to relax and do not let this kind of person use you for his agenda. So, listen and follow your own advice: there is a time to be silent. In this case, you need to zip your mouth because you do not understand the issue here. Stop making the man use you. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 9:57pm On Jan 31, 2021*. Modified: 5:05am On Feb 01, 2021 |
Eviana:I have read this statement many times, and it seems you dish it out to whoever you don't agree with. Well, I think you need to start focusing on your nation. The US has got so much now that you have so much to pray for there. I am praying for the US. And God will answer our (Nigerians) prayers. I will not tell you lies, I am not praying for you cos this is not what my inner man has told me to do. My inner man has just told me to say the truth and move on. I will sow the seed, and allow God to water it. Therefore, like I told you earlier: I do not know you, and I have no desire to know you. Just read the truth and work on it. That's all. I hope you pray for yourself. Yes, I love my birth country.You arent bi-cltural. You are pure American. In fact, you prefer calling yourself "black american" instead of African American - so says your profile here. I have noticed it. Also, there is nothing Nigerian presently in you. If you are a true Nigerian, I will know. How can you be a true Nigerian and be tribalistic. You allow what you read here to cloud your judgement. You allow people like this OP to unconsciously push you into the tribalistic war going on. Listen to me. I am first a Nigerian before I will mention my tribe. In fact, I dont do it. But I read in your profile - Black American Born & Igbo Woman . Not African American, and not Nigerian, but Igbo. I think you should just join the Ipob and join tje Biafra movement. But I think you dont understand these issues. You do not. You allow what you read online cloud your judgement. I advise you to visit your root if you truly are Nigerian. You are first a Nigerian, before you are Igbo. You will not carry an Igbo passport but a Nigerian passport. And it will never be written on it if you are igbo or not. You have not even visited but already calling yourself Igbo. Lol. OMG! I think you need to re educate yourself. I have said enough about this, and I do not want to know you. Period.. Yes, I respect the office of the president.Since it is ONLY the US passport you carry, you need to focus your prayer there more. There is a big problem you need to focus on. And its Biden. Well, I have no problem about it because I accept everyone for who the person is. But hmmm....we know we are dealing with principalities and powers. Every nation has got a problem the devil has thrown against her. Nigeria is religious war. And it is why you should exercise patience. I am not against preaching the truth, but the truth that will cause war is what I am against. There are ways to address issues like those. Fulani heardmen is also part of it. More of political than religious. These people know the only way they can cause trouble is to turn it to religious war. So, it is why we need to kill any religious provoking utterances fast. You dont know cos you are not Nigerian. You may be through one of your parents, but the real you is not Nigerian. You need to visit to really have full understanding. If not, just caution yourself and do not let what you read cloud your judgement and make you react unwisely. What religious issue like herdsman to us is what homosexuality is to you. Do you talk freely about it? Do you argue it publicly? But you want to talk bold about religious issue here to do what? To cause war? I have read your threads and I noticed the man called Mr Doug Batchelor. Click the link and listen to his video about homos. I can feel how he was so careful not to offend anyone. And he also said somewhere in the video that we have "free will". This is the man you have flooded his video in your thread. http://arthurandteresabeem..com/2012/05/doug-batchelor-and-homosexuality.html?m=1 So, why is this man not going about inciting strong words about the issue daily in the name of saying the truth? Why did he choose his words with wisdom? And is he always attacking homosexuals? Of course if he wants to, he knows he dear not do it continuously, consistently and confrontationally. Now, you even have a president who is ready to promote it. So, why dont you also join the protest and March to White house to shout you dont want homosexuals and that they are going to hell. Carry placards and start shouting they are doomed for hell fire. Go on do it because you need to say the truth. Go on.. I have read where you said you.dont talk about politics and your siblings respect it. Why? Because you know it is sensitive. And here we are. You have been told many times which i have read that most issues here are political, but the vehicle used is religion to cause trouble, yet, you do not want to understand it. Why must a Christian confront moslims? For what? To choke it down their throats that Jesus is the savior? Did Jesus send you to do that? He said that his disciples preach to them once and if they rejected them, they leave the town and make sure they remove the dust of the town from their scandals. Meaning, do not revisit the issue. Allow God to do his work. You have said yours. You have so much to pray about your nation. Is it justified for the so called good people to go to the Capitol and do the rubbish they did? Those are the so called good people. Lol. Did Jesus send them? I doubt it. You need to re-focus on interceeding for the glory of Leadership to not leave your nation instead of meddling with what you dont understand in Nigeria. Your nation has become a laughing doll that Iran laughed her to scorn. The US has no moral right to even try to correct any nation again. I think you focus on this more. If you know you are drawn to Nigeria, then, visit this nation. And God will reveal more to you. Like I wrote earlier, I dont know you, and I dont want to know you. What my inner man says I tell you is what I am dropping here without any apology.. [s]Yes, I do not agree with everything that Iyambz has written... which is why I conversed with him in a civil manner..& vice-versa. [/s]Better you had stayed silent. You talking is making him hide behind you. He knows he is wrong, but he needs the support of people. And he is using you. About your denomination, I didnt mean you are afraid. I was just saying that this terrible OP will attack you. Well, you may respond well, but I am saying that it is uncalled for. And he will definitely do it again and again. He is free to write rubbish, and I am equally free to knock his coconut head everytime he writes them. Simple as ABC. That's his God-given right to do.Of course, I do not expect you to explode. But do not let him use you to promote religious war here. That's all. From the 2-3 threads that I have read from him thus far, those led me to believe that he is striving to serve Christ.You won't condemn him because you also agree Catholic is a "dangerous" denomination? But just the cat part you disagree with. Listen, stop it. Dont promote religious war here. You should focus on homosexuality in the US than causing religious war here. Go and sort out the challenges of your nation first and leave Nigeria alone. After all, you have not stepped your feet here. God forbid Nigeria should burn down, it will not affect you so much. You will just cry "what a pity". And life goes on for you. This is the only country I have. I am.not interested in relocating to any nation. Sir, my apologies for saying that you were briefly defending me...Exactly! I do not know you. And I do not want to know you. I have no desire to defend you. I am just a free writer. Enjoy my posts and learn from them the way I enjoy yours and learn from them. Actually, you wrote some good stuff. Mehn! Thanks very much. I love reading, and I must say, you are good sometimes. Just that I expect you to explain your videos and then relate them to this present situation we are in. Your copy and paste is too much. I'll let these be my last words with you in order to not continue down this path.How can I argue with someone I have no desire to know? I said I do not know you, and I do not want to know you. If you post and I feel like making comments, it is a free world, and vice versa..still I dont want to know you. My message is a clear as ABC. [s]May you surrender to the Lord...You arent God and you arent a judge to know who has surrendered and who has not. And it is non of your business. This is the attitude in you I have noticed. What if you have not surrendered to Him yourself? Remove the dirt from your eyes first before you remove from others. I cannot judge you if you have or not. I advise you again, focus on your nation. Remove the dirt from your eyes first. Your nation has a huge problem. Gone are the days Americans always feel they have the right to poke nose into the affairs of others. And it has become the attitude of most of her citizens. Always making authoritative statements. Go amd check your salvation first before making statements like you are a mini god. All I can wish you is good luck.
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| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Eviana(f): 11:04pm On Jan 31, 2021*. Modified: 11:29pm On Jan 31, 2021 |
PeaceLoveJoy:Ok....thank you for releasing this statement of anger and for viewing some videos by Pastor Doug also. Please also check out Pro. Walter Veith & Dwayne Lemon. God bless- P.S. Ok....no more conversation between us. Please kindly skip over or ignore any posts/threads I may make in order for you to NOT explode like this....mercy. I pray daily for my nation--the U.S. and will continue to pray for my other nation-Nigeria. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 10:54pm On Feb 01, 2021 |
DappaD:(1 John 5:7 kjv) “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by DappaD: 12:15am On Feb 02, 2021 |
iyambz:Go and research more on “Comma Johannine” if you want to understand the truth behind the rendering of that verse. Other reliable Bible translations have cleared up the confusion already. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 6:29am On Feb 02, 2021 |
DappaD:When you don't believe that Jesus is God, why else will you agree with the KJV Bible nor the verse. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 9:32am On Feb 02, 2021 |
DappaD:I looked into it, and it is talking about omission of comas, and I got hooked. It is saying something special, and I want to know. At times, when I see new stuff, I just beat my head why I didnt see them earlier. Bro, in a short sentence, what are you saying so as I am looking deep, I can take note of your position. What exactly is the conclusion of Comma Johannine? Saying what exactly? Personally, I don't rely only KJV again. The story behind the version is political, and there are stunts King James performed. He was not even a Christian. A beg, leave that guy alone, and let us read your thought. Not saying I have accepted your position, but kindly drop your thought in details. Just ignore that guy. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 9:39am On Feb 02, 2021 |
DappaD:Ok. You gave a reference - Comma Johannine for Trinity that I have asked you questions above. Nice! Please, could you state your position on hellfire? And kindly give references to support your position again here. If you have evidences about your position on Trinity, kindly drop them too. Not arguing with you. I just want to get facts from you. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by DappaD: 10:35am On Feb 02, 2021*. Modified: 11:01am On Feb 02, 2021 |
PeaceLoveJoy: PeaceLoveJoy:Good morning. I’ll like to state my position first that I’m one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. As for the “Comma Johannine” issue, it’s already well documented that the words “the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” that appear in the KJV translation of 1John 5:7-8 do not appear in the original Greek manuscripts. Erasmus[a 16th century Dutch scholar] corrected the errors that were spuriously added in the Latin Vulgate that’s why the Roman Catholic Church pressured him to include it in his translation. Those spurious words have been used for so long to purport the Trinity doctrine but that’s already old news that has been debunked severally. The Bible clearly states that the God of the Bible has a name—Jehovah. Exodus 6:3, Psalm 83:18, Isaiah 12:2 So rather than talking about a three-faced god, the Bible asserts that Jehovah is one God. Deuteronomy 6:4, Galatians 3:20 Now, Jehovah has several spirit sons[angels], including Gabriel [Job 38:7, Daniel 7:10] But one especially stands out as being God’s only begotten Son[John 3:16] by virtue of him being the first creature ever made by God—Jesus Christ. Colossians 1:15-16 Jesus and his Father, Jehovah enjoy a very close relationship. Matthew 11:27, John 17:5 That’s why the qualities of his Father such as humility, compassion, love[2Samuel 22:36, Psalm 103:8] rubbed off on him to the point that he could say that anyone who had seen him had already seen the Father. John 14:9 Even while on earth, Jesus admitted to having a God[Matthew 6:9, Mark 10:18, John 20:17] He also acknowledged that he was not on the same level with his God and Father[John 14:28, Philippians 2:6] Jesus’ disciples addressed him properly as the Son of God[Matthew 16:16, John 20:31] so the identity of Jesus Christ is not hidden or a mystery. After returning to heaven, we still see that Jesus continues subject to his God and Father, Jehovah because according to Psalm 110:1 and Acts 2:34-35, Jehovah commanded Jesus to sit down at his right hand and exercise patience for the appointed time of the nations to be fulfilled. Luke 21:24 Also in Revelation 3:12,21, there is also a clear distinction made between God and Jesus. The latter kept on calling Jehovah, “My God” “My Father” because he knew that his authority was given to him by Jehovah. Matthew 28:18, Philippians 2:9-11, Hebrews 1:8 The Trinity doctrine was fabricated and forged so that the name of the true God—Jehovah would become hidden. An essential part of someone’s salvation is acknowledging Jehovah’s name. Joel 2:32, Romans 10:13 Hence by inventing the Trinity doctrine[worthless tradition], the Catholic Church put many in line for destruction, not salvation. Matthew 23:13, Mark 7:13 And so, according to Jesus’ words recorded at John 17:3, everlasting life[salvation] depends on knowing the difference between the true God Jehovah and his Son whom God sent. Compare John 6:38 Now concerning the doctrine of “hellfire”, please note that several major and minor religions also have this doctrine e.g. Islam, Buddhism etc The Catholic Church adopted this false teaching from the pagan worshipers around them and even went as far as including purgatory and Limbo. This false teaching was used for centuries by the Catholic Church to have a cause for extorting, maiming and even killing innocent men, women and children who did not subscribe to their beliefs. If you think I’m making all of these up, please go and read up about the Inquisition and the crusades[so-called holy wars]. On the other hand, the Bible doesn’t teach of such an abhorrent thing as a “hellfire”. I know, you might want to go and quote Scriptures such as Matthew 5:22, Mark 9:48, Luke 16:19-31 but bear in mind that those Scriptures have nothing to do with a fiery place of torment as the Luke 16 account is a parable with a hidden meaning and the other two contain the word “Gehenna” which was a place outside Jerusalem where rubbish was burnt and dead criminals who didn’t deserve a proper burial were incinerated. Jesus could not have been referring to a place of everlasting torment for two solid reasons: 1. The idea alone of burning someone alive in fire disgusts Jehovah. Jeremiah 7:31 It was also partly for this reason that God exterminated the Canaanites, because those pagan worshipers burnt their children alive in fire. Deuteronomy 12:31 So why would God go around his own standards and burn sinners[who made it their choice not to serve him] forever in fire? 2. Mark 9:48 parallels the inspired words of an ancient Hebrew prophet, Isaiah. The bodies of those going to Gehenna, as has been previously stated, were dead bodies, not live ones. That’s the reason why Isaiah 66:24 says that it is the corpses/carcasses of wicked men who will be thrown into the fire and not people who are alive. The words “hell”, “hellfire” and “lake of fire” mean totally different things and are usually interchanged. The first one “hell” is often rendered “pit” in the Old Testament, but the actual rendering is meant to be “Sheol” in Hebrew, “Hades” in Greek and “Grave” in modern English which means the common grave of mankind and depicts a state/condition of inactivity/unconsciousness. Ecclesiastes 9:10 The second one as has been said was fabricated. The translator of the KJV felt at liberty to replace “Gehenna” with “hellfire” so as to scare people and unfortunately other translators followed suit. But they don’t know the harm they were bringing to themselves. Revelation 22:18-19 The third one “lake of fire” symbolizes the “second death” which means total destruction/annihilation, a death from which there can no be hope of resurrection and not everlasting torment. Revelation 21:8 Interestingly, Revelation 20:14 says that “hell” will be thrown into the “lake of fire”. Does that mean “hell” would literally suffer and burn? Or does it not rather mean that “hell” which is actually “Grave” would become nonexistent in order for people not to die anymore? Compare Revelation 21:3-4 Know today, that Jehovah wants all to serve him from their hearts and out of love for him[Matthew 22:37-40] and not out of morbid fear, since God himself is the embodiment of love. 1John 4:8 |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 1:56pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
DappaD:Ok. I'm not judging you, and will not attack any other denomination. Likewise, there is no need to attack catholic. I know olden days politics caused serious confusion. I also know some people deliberately deceived others for their selfish interest. No need to call names, or point fingers. We learn, and we move one. As for the “Comma Johannine” issue, it’s already well documented that the words “the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” that appear in the KJV translation of 1John 5:7-8 do not appear in the original Greek manuscripts. Erasmus[a 16th century Dutch scholar] corrected the errors that were spuriously added in the Latin Vulgate that’s why the Roman Catholic Church pressured him to include it in his translation.You referred to this verse: 1st John 5:7-8 KJV - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. NIV For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. Amplified For there are three witnesses: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three are in agreement [their testimony is perfectly consistent]. To read more about Johannine Comma: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannine_Comma Well, my opinion is that the Johannine comma has strong valid points. And for other versions to remove the underlined phrase in KJV, there are evidences it was deliberately added to the verse. However, it doesnt still nullify the fact there may be Trinity, as you still need to clarify some other issues, and I am sure pro Trinitiny have so much to say. I will highlight some points and ask questions, and I hope more people can help out. Cc: Eviana and Iyambz, and any other person reading this and interested in giving out facts, I will appreciate your input. I scolded Iyambz cos he was not doing a good job by just attacking catholic. Please, leave catholic aside and let us face the subject. Rather than criticizing the denomination, criticize this point without making reference to the church at all. Focus on Trinity here. Prove your points one by one. I apologize for coming forcefully on you, but you got the dose of what you were giving Catholics. Criticize the substance or teaching, and not the organisation. The Bible clearly states that the God of the Bible has a name—Jehovah.Hmmmmm I will quote just one here, but after checking the other two above, I got same result. And I will tell you what I detected. Let us use Exodus 6:3: KJV: And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. Note: Jehovah, mentioned NIV: I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the Lord I did not make myself fully known to them. Note:Jehovah, not mentioned AMP: I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob (Israel) as God Almighty [El Shaddai], but by My name, Lord , I did not make Myself known to them [in acts and great miracles]. Note: Jehovah, not mentioned Same with the other references you quoted. Here is the interesting question. Question: You wrote catholic included trinity in KJV and it has been nullified by other versions and have been adjusted. It is funny that only the same King James included Jehovah, and others omitted it. Can we conclude that KJV included many things which were not supposed to be in the Bible? If you say catholic did it for trinity, did the same catholic decide to unify the name of God as Jehovah in KJV? For what purpose? Is catholic supporting Jehovah witness here? Or Jehovah witness playing smart here? I'm confused. Could you explain why other versions you praised and relied on excluded JEHOVAH? Bro, I am not debating with you ooo. These are facts I saw here. And I need clarification. That's all. Cos it seems both Catholic and Jehovah Witness contradict each other here, and both playing different rhythms from the same version. But it seems you used King James when it suits your argument, and discarded it when it doesnt. Kindly clarify sir. So rather than talking about a three-faced god, the Bible asserts that Jehovah is one God.Let us use Deut 6.4 here: KJV Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord NIV: Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Amp: “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one [the only God]! Note: No mention of Jehovah in all the 3 versions. Lord is God, and one You have not proved beyond reasonable doubt His ONLY name is JEHOVAH. The King James you condemned that Catholic used to promote TRINITY is the only version which called Him JEHOVAH in the verses you used. Amplified even called Him specifically ElShaddail. Am I making sense to you? I agreed with you there are strong evidences which suggest God, son, and H.S were added to I john 5: 7-8, but the same version which added that verse is the same which used JEHOVAH in all other verses you quoted to support Jehovah is the only name for God. To use Lord is one God to support your JEHOVAH claim, you must established it beyond reasonable doubt that Jehovah is the only name of God. Then, we can proceed. Indont get it. Are you saying He is not Elshaddai? Also, since you accepted KJV to support your position about non existence of Trinity but acceptance of JEHOVAH as the only name to show he is the only one God, it means that I must have to consider the fact that pro Trinity's case needs to be heard. The same reason you adopted JEHOVAH, I must say I am forced to listen to them and see why TRINITY is added by King James. I know the politics of those days was tough and strong. And the inclusion must have a reason. It doesnt mean I have accepted Trinity is in existence or not based on the points here so far. So, over to any pro Trinity who can help us out. Now, Jehovah has several spirit sons[angels], including Gabriel [Job 38:7, Daniel 7:10]Everything here makes sense. I read all the Bible verses, but there is one which stands out I need clarification on. Col 1.15-16. Only NIV used the term "All was created through him". The other two said "all things were created by him" and KJV went further to say "not only by him and for him also. Nothing further to say here other than it is not distinctly clear. I know you have tried to nullify Trinity. But these topic is not distinctly clear. Jesus and his Father, Jehovah enjoy a very close relationship. Matthew 11:27, John 17:5We can go on and on. These things are not clear. I will not say the contradictions and incompetence on the part of God, but my point has always been that many things have been altered. This is why science will NEVER agree with many things in Bible. You can see how I am asking many questions. King James was not even a Christian. How the other versions came about are all subjected to one or two criticisms. While we search the truth, we must equip ourselves with history. Not just take one for word what anyone says. Even Paul asks us to search deep what we are taught. History is an invaluable tool which has unraveled many lies. My point is this: I want to know the truth, and if it's too clumsy, I will stay on the safe side. The Trinity doctrine was fabricated and forged so that the name of the true God—Jehovah would become hidden. An essential part of someone’s salvation is acknowledging Jehovah’s name. Joel 2:32, Romans 10:13But the same catholic you accused via King James Version is the only version which recognises the name JEHOVAH in all your references to support this. Or am I missing anything? And so, according to Jesus’ words recorded at John 17:3, everlasting life[salvation] depends on knowing the difference between the true God Jehovah and his Son whom God sent. Compare John 6:38I have looked at your points sir, and you can see the questions highlighted up for you. To pro Trinity: I want know, 1. What exactly is Trinity? 2. Are there: 1 God, 1 Son=Jesus, 1 Holy Spirit? 3. Or is there 1 person who manifests in three dimensions? 4. If 2 above is it, are you saying though there are 3 personalities (not sure if personalities is the right word, or maybe beings but the three are equal). If not, what exactly? 5. If 4 above is correct, what do you mean by this equality? How do you explain it. Please, explain with references and kindly put everything together in simple language we understand. Feel free to use your king James version but explain in modern language. Say it in plain terms what you believe. I am sure many versions and interpretations will come out. Please, go on. Help me out here. I am reading I will still ask my questions about Hell. This is the part one of my questions, and soon, I will make response to the hell issue. Eviana, Iyambz, and others. Over to you. Thank you. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 4:23pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
DappaD:It is quite true there are strong evidences which suggest the catholic church has played some dangerous roles in the olden days. Not withstanding, I am focused on the real topic here which is hell fire instead of the Inquisition which is a subject on it's own. Inquisition is filled with messes and unbelievable occurrences which shouldn't happen. On the other hand, the Bible doesn’t teach of such an abhorrent thing as a “hellfire”. I know, you might want to go and quote Scriptures such as Matthew 5:22, Mark 9:48, Luke 16:19-31 but bear in mind that those Scriptures have nothing to do with a fiery place of torment as the Luke 16 account is a parable with a hidden meaning and the other two contain the word “Gehenna” which was a place outside Jerusalem where rubbish was burnt and dead criminals who didn’t deserve a proper burial were incinerated.Sorry for breaking your paragraph here, but I think this is a vital point I want to look into distinctly. If Matthew 5:22, Mark 9:48, Luke 16:19-31 arent talking about fiery place of torment, could you give the true interpretation? When you nullify a general believe, it is necessary to give the truth. Why is Luke 16 included in the Bible even it's a parable. Perhaps to deceive us? I'm trying to understand why you think a parable is not an evidence to take. Why not? I want to ask, even that JEHOVAH is used by KJV, does it mean that is an acceptable proof? Even if it's not recorded as a parable, the question is still how does it make sense to the ordinary man or to the whole world who does not believe what you hear every Sunday? I mean, I must see evidences beyond reasonable doubts that truly what is said there is real truth in it. Now, as a fellow Christian, I will want you tell me why that parable is included in the Bible. For what reason? Then, if you say it is not a relevant evidence, then what is it? Do you really even believe in Jesus and His words? If its JEHOVAH that is said to say the parable, would it have changed your opinion? To me, this is the position it seems you accept more - that if you do not see Jehovah, you do not think it is true. I'm not judging yet, but trying to understand what exactly you believe or you don't. But where does the word Jehovah comes from? From heaven? What is the origin? Have you bothered to check? Are you saying the parables of Jesus are not worthy enough as evidences? Or are you even saying Jesus is a confused person to have voiced out that parable? Or are you saying He said rubbish? I do not get you at all. What are you saying exactly? Jesus could not have been referring to a place of everlasting torment for two solid reasons:Well, let me borrow from atheists argument. They always argue God killed many people. Do you agree God killed with water in the days of Noah? So, if he killed in the days of Noah, what is special about not capable of killing again. Kill is kill. Also the verse you referred to, I have studied it and it dealt with sacrifices of burnt offering by pagans. It's not punishment. What I understand there was that God detested it cos it was a form of paganism. The subject of the goodness of God is another topic. I just think it is a strong point to use here to really ask you the significance of Rainbow in the Bible. What is Rainbow to you? 2. Mark 9:48 parallels the inspired words of an ancient Hebrew prophet, Isaiah.Here is Mark 9:48 where ‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’ To me, there is no relationship between what is here and your explanation. You mentioned carcasses. So, what can you say about the worms that do not die? My opinion is that it is an assumption you have been taught. I understand this is your believe, but it is hard to take it. It is an assumption you may find hard to prove. If you can prove it, go on. The words “hell”, “hellfire” and “lake of fire” mean totally different things and are usually interchanged.Well, I appreciate all, but it is so hard to accept all your words. Though, it doesnt mean I have accepted there is hell. I am just trying to make sense of your argument. But proving the symbols does not still prove there is no hell. Pro existence of hell, kindly let me read from you. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 4:34pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
I will create a new thread on trinity later this evening. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by DappaD: 5:22pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
@PeaceLoveJoy Go and search about your Church’s history nobody is forging anything. That’s what the Vatican have tried to hide for years in their secret vaults. Unfortunately for them, the history books do not lie. The translators of the KJV and the others took it upon themselves to remove God’s personal name[JEHOVAH] and replaced it with Lord/Adonai. They thought what they were doing was right, meanwhile they were only blindly following Jewish tradition. Exodus 3:15&Isaiah 42:8 states that YHWH[Hebrew] i.e. JEHOVAH[English] is God’s name forever and anyone who tries to stamp it out is only being mischievous. So do not bring up the whole “Lord” issue because it simply means “Master” or “Owner” and is not the personal name of God. “El-Shaddai” simply means “God Almighty” and not the name of God. Genesis 17:1, Revelation 15:3 The “Trinity” doctrine is a mystery as you guys always say, so when you try to explain it you’ll only put yourself in more trouble. After all I’ve encountered many as in many of your kind who have their own versions and definitions about this “Trinity”. Concerning the destruction of all forms of life in Noah’s day and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, God’s Word the Bible makes it clear that the ungodly men underwent everlasting destruction/annihilation. They did not suffer in any “hellfire” after they were destroyed. 2Peter 2:5-6, Jude 7 Go and look at Isaiah 66:24, the carcasses of wicked men are thrown into the fire. Not living humans. I’m not the one who said it. It parallels Mark 9:48 because Jesus drew his words from that Bible verse. The Pharisees in Luke 16 were listening to Jesus Christ[Luke 16:14] these self righteous men saw the common Jew as nothing and they expected the Messiah to align with them, but when he didn’t, they often sneered, abused and maligned he and his works, so Jesus said that a significant change was going to occur between the self righteous persons and the common man in Judea[Luke 16:16] and that’s what set the pace for the parable that Jesus told in Luke 16:19-31. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 6:09pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
iyambz:Why dont you put it here also? And then put it in your new thread. It just keeps the communication going on here. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 6:22pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
PeaceLoveJoy:It's Long. I have already posted it. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 6:36pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
Trinity (1 John 5:7 kjv) "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." >(Deut 6:4) One God >(John 6:27) God the Father >(John 20:26-28) God the Son >(Acts 5:3-4) God the Spirit All these verses show the trinity. The word trinity is not in the Bible, but that doesn’t mean there is no trinity. 1. Man is a trinity: (1 Thess 5:23 kjv) – “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Man has 3 different parts. This means God has 3 different parts also. 2. Godhead (Acts 17:29; Rom 1:20; Col 2:9 kjv): These verses show that Godhead was mentioned. Godhead means God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. 3. Picture of trinity (The Sun): a. Light ray: Can be seen but cannot be felt. (Jesus Christ). b. Heat ray: You can feel it, but cannot see it (Holy Spirit). c. Actinic ray: Can’t be seen nor felt (The Father). 4. God mentioned as plural: a. (Gen 1:26 kjv) “Let us make man.” b. (Gen 3:22 kjv) God referred to Himself as “Us.” c. (Gen 11:6-7 kjv) “Let us go down” (reference to the tower of Babel). d. (Matt 13:14-15 kjv) Jesus referred to Himself as “Us.” 5. Distinction of Trinity: The Father, Son, and Spirit are one God, but not the same person. (John 14:28 kjv) – God the Son exalts the Father. (John 16:13-14 kjv) – God the Spirit exalts the Son. This is why you don’t pray to the Holy Spirit, you should pray to the Father and Son only. The Holy Spirit doesn’t brag on himself, He only brags on Jesus (1 John 4:1-3, 10-15; 5:9-13 kjv). 6. Basis of the Trinity: a. Baptism (Matt 28:19 kjv). This verse shows there is God the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost. b. Benediction (2 Cor 113:14 kjv). c. New Birth (Salvation) (John 3:5 kjv). d. Prayer (Rom 15:30 kjv). e. Salvation (1 Pet 1:2 kjv). 7. Trinity acting in unity: a. (i). In creation (Gen 1:3 kjv). (ii). In (John 1:1,3 kjv) The word became flesh which is Jesus Christ (spoken word). (iii). In (Gen 1:2 kjv) the Spirit of God was involved in creation. b. Incarnation (virgin birth of Jesus). (i). God gave His only Son (John 3:16 kjv). (ii). Jesus was involved because He was born (Luke 2:11 kjv). (iii). Holy Ghost was involved in the incarnation (Luke 1:35 kjv). He went inside Mary. c. Redemption (Heb 9:14 kjv). (i) God purge our conscience. (ii). Blood of Jesus washed out our sins. (iii). The blood of Christ was able to cleanse us of our sins through the Holy Spirit. d. Salvation: (i). (Luke 15:22 kjv) The Father (prodigal son). (ii). (Luke 15:4 kjv) Jesus (Shepherd). (iii). (Eph 1:13 kjv) The Holy Spirit sealed us. This is a great verse on “once saved always saved.” e. Communion: i. (Eph 2:18 kjv) We talk to God the Father. ii. (2 Cor 5:19 kjv) Jesus made it possible for us to have access to the Father; to communion with God the Father. iii. (Eph 2:18 kjv) Holy Spirit gives us the access to talk to God the Father. f. Prayer: (John 16:23 kjv) God the Father and Son. (Rom 8:26 kjv) The Holy Spirit. g. In Glory: (i) (1 Cor 15:24) The Father (Millennium). (ii). (Phil 3:21 kjv) The Son (He will change our body). (iii). (Rev 22:17 kjv) The Holy Spirit giving us invitation to glory. h. Regeneration. (i). (Luke 10:20 kjv) The Father wrote our name in Heaven (the book of life). (ii). (Eph 1:7 kjv) Jesus blood wash away our sin and gave us a new birth. (iii). (John 3:3,5,6 kjv) The Holy Spirit regenerated us (The spiritual birth; born again). 8. Attributes of God in Trinity: a. Eternal: 1. (Psa 90:2 kjv) The Father. 2. (Rev 1:8 kjv) The Son. (vss 17&18 show it was Jesus Christ). 3. (Heb 9:14 kjv) God the Spirit. Eternal Spirit. b. Omnipotent: 1. (1 Pet 1:5 kjv) God the Father. 2. (2 Cor 12:9 kjv) The Son has all the power. 3. (Rom 15:19 kjv) The Spirit has all the power. c. Omniscience: 1. (Jer 17:10 kjv) The Father. 2. (Rev 2:23 kjv) The Son. (Rev 1:18 shows that it was Jesus that was talking). 3. (1 Cor 2:11 kjv) The Holy Spirit looks at the heart of men. d. Omnipresence: 1. (Jer 23:24 kjv) The Father. 2. (Matt 18:20 kjv) The Son. 3. (Psa 139:7 kjv) The Holy Spirit. e. His Holiness: 1. (Rev 15:4 kjv) The Father. 2. (Acts 3:14 kjv) The Son. 3. (Luke 1:15 kjv) The Spirit. f. Truth: 1. (John 7:28 kjv) The Father. 2. (Rev 3:7 kjv) The Son. 3. (1 John 5:6 kjv) The Holy Spirit. g. Benevolent: 1. (Rom 2:4 kjv) The Father 2. (Eph 5:25 kjv) The Son) 3. (Neh 9:20 kjv) The Holy Spirit. h. Communion: 1. (1 John 1:3 kjv) The Father. 2. (1 John 1:3 kjv) The Son. 3. (2 Cor 13:14 kjv) The Holy Spirit. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Eviana(f): 6:52pm On Feb 02, 2021*. Modified: 7:10pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
You know, it takes a sincere, humble and Godly person to acknowledge his/her mistakes and offer an apology to people he/she has offended. A Godly person does not pick and choose who to apologize to either when multiple people are involved. While I won't say that I know your motives for apologizing to him, I see you gave one to Iyambz only... Makes me question if I was set-up. Although I did not receive an apology at all, I forgive your behavior towards me PeaceLoveJoy. I did nothing to receive the unleashing of an unbridled furor such as what was done to me on yesterday. Yes, I could have kept quiet but I choose not to. Witchcraft is not only rebellion, but also the blood-thirsty, insatiable desire to control a person's thoughts, moves and actions. For those of you who are unaware, there are different categories for those who identify with the Nigerian descent: 1) Nigerian-Americans (those 1st generation children born in America with both parents being Nigerian immigrants. 2) African-Americans (those black people who were born in America--yet have lineage or ties to the continent of Africa It was/is a "politically correct" term.... 3). Black or White American/African (any child born in America who has (1) birth parent of America and (1) birth parent of Africa who immigrated to the states. I would fit in category (3). I guess Peacelovejoy was in my parents' matrimonial bed when I was conceived? I identified myself as "Igbo" because I simply am 50 percent. It has "0" to do with tribalism. You sir, who falsely accused me, want me to be ashamed of my direct descent and hide it. However, I will not. I really am appalled at the behavior of some Nigerians and the treatment I have received on this site over a period of years. Makes me believe that the world renowned reputation that Nigeria has, is well-earned. However, I know that it is NOT every single Nigerian who behaves in this manner. I was set up yet again, however I will never as long as God gives me breath, deny who I am. I love the Lord...no matter what may come. As I was praying this morning, for this my other country Nigeria.....(including Nairaland and my prayer list of folks here in the religion section, you, PeaceLoveJoy, weighed heavily on my mind. I cried heavily as I thought back to your verbal monstrosity of an attack (unprovoked) on my character, once again was unleashed. It has been almost 1 year sir....1 year....which you know...you absolutely & definitely know. I know..."you don't know me".... That's your story and you are gonna go to your grave with it. Rest assured that God knows ok? I am frightened for you cause you are riding such a thin line.. My heart bleeds for you cause you are paralyzed and trapped... All I can do is continually pray that Jesus has mercy on your soul and that you will choose Him before probation is up for you. We never know when we will breathe our last breath.... It is your soul that I care about...that's all. I'm gonna preach Jesus to all...for it is He who gives peace. You invited me on this thread to start shredding the KJV bible and cease any talk on Catholicism. I will not shred the KJV. I have already spoken on the subject matter of the thread. I wrote from a sincere heart...my mind will not change from that. You villanized me cause I wouldn't villanize the OP to your satisfaction....although I suggested something to him. Honestly, I must forgive you..and love you cause right now you are bound tightly. I will say no more to you. I know you will be vindictive towards me as is your modus operandi. However I give you to the Lord sir. I stand by Isaiah 54:17 (KJV). You hate me, but I am compelled to pray for and love you. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 7:20pm On Feb 02, 2021*. Modified: 8:22pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
DappaD:No doubt history helps. I believe so much in history; however, we are objective here. We are discussing trinity and hell here as the subjects instead of looking at broad subjects about catholic which will definitely lead into a huge thing and that I am guarding against. Rather than attack a personality or organisation, let us address the subjects of discussion. I will rather not dive into the Inquisition and the crusades to buttress anything here because it is broad. It will just attack the catholic church and I also agree that the catholic church did really harm. But we can't say the church has not done anything good too. And overall, can we say the church is good or evil? I do not want to get involved in that. We have picked two topics: trinity and the existence of hell, let us focus on these. [s]The translators of the KJV and the others took it upon themselves to remove God’s personal name[JEHOVAH] and replaced it with Lord/Adonai. [/s] They thought what they were doing was right, meanwhile they were only blindly following Jewish tradition.No, you are twisting it again. Return and read my response. You are trying to push forward your position without reading my previous responses. Bro, you need to be open minded. You did not address any of my questions at all. Bro....bro...bro... KJV is the only version which use JEHOVAH. BRO...bro...bro...do you get this again? And the same KJV which used Jehovah is the same only version which is guilty of Johnenine Comma. Do you get this? King James did not replace it. If you say KJV is wrong with Johnenie Comma, it is also wrong using Jehovah since it is the main version which uses it. Do you really get my argument here? You need to start saying the genesis of JEHOVAH for us to accept it. Where does it come from? Did the Bible say so? Prove it bro. Do not just say it. Exodus 3:15&Isaiah 42:8 states that YHWH[Hebrew] i.e. JEHOVAH[English] is God’s name forever and anyone who tries to stamp it out is only being mischievous. So do not bring up the whole “Lord” issue because it simply means “Master” or “Owner” and is not the personal name of God. “El-Shaddai” simply means “God Almighty” and not the name of God.You are the one stressing the definition of YHWH as Jehovah. What is the proof? You are just saying it. All these verses does not have Jehovah there. So, how did your Jehovah get there? Where is the proof? Prove it bro. Do not just say it. It looks like what was just a believe in. Where is the proof? How is JEHOVAH the english version of YHWH? Who made it so? How? Also, what is the real evidence Elshddai is not his name. The way Jehovah appeared is how Elshaddai appeared in different versions. Why donyoy stress it is Jehovah? Who? The way Jehovah appeared is how LORD appeared. Sox how come you are stressing Jehovah? The “Trinity” doctrine is a mystery as you guys always say, so when you try to explain it you’ll only put yourself in more trouble. After all I’ve encountered many as in many of your kind who have their own versions and definitions about this “Trinity”.I agree with you here. Saying it's a mystery is impossible to accept. And this is where it gets funny. When one says something is mystery and unexplainable, then why force it down the throat of others? Lol. It means a level of "revelation" is needed to understand it. I dont want to debate if there is a level of revelation or not, but that it is unexplainable is enough reason to not beat ones chest about it. This is why matured Christians do not debate or argue. It is just a subject which is beyond the ordinary. Even Paul said he was not allowed to say some things, so there is no point to even fight over it. This is my point. And it applies to you too. You have not shown the source of Jehovah you are using. You are just saying it. Perhaps, I need a level of revelation too to get it. It is strange to me that you cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt but you are defending it like what? Lol. That I should use your level of faith to get the revelation? Bless you bro if you believe it just like that. It is why the Bible talks about it: Blessed are those bla bla bla bla. Blessed are you bro for believing in Jehovah as the ONLY name of God. But it doesnt still make sense to the ordinary man how you arrived at this. And you have failed to show us beyond reasonable doubt. Do I crucify you? Nope. This is your faith and position. Bless the LORD. Simple. Concerning the destruction of all forms of life in Noah’s day and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, God’s Word the Bible makes it clear that the ungodly men underwent everlasting destruction/annihilation. They did not suffer in any “hellfire” after they were destroyed. 2Peter 2:5-6, Jude 7In short, do you believe God destroyed the world? If yes, then your previous bible references have been knocked out that it is destable before God that people should perish by fire. Are you now saying what you dispute is suffering in everlasting fire? If yes, this should be the focus. So, do you agree there is something about fire? What it is should be our next focus. Mayne you are not the right person to explain it further cos this is where your level of revelation ends. And you allow another person to explain further, while you also start questioning the revelation of the person like me. Or am.I not making sense? Bro, I like separating facts. I do not mix up arguments cos this is what people do, and before you know what next, it turns to useless attacks, they become the laughing dolls in the society. Lol. Go and look at Isaiah 66:24, the carcasses of wicked men are thrown into the fire. Not living humans. I’m not the one who said it. It parallels Mark 9:48 because Jesus drew his words from that Bible verse.Sure, I agree with you that Isaiah talked about carcass, but the subject here is everlasting fire or ordinary fire. In the same Isaiah and Mark, everlasting worms and fire are mentioned. What can you say about it? I think it is a different subject to start talking about if it's their carcass or not, but there is fire. So, what is the fire for? I'm just trying to get you. And if pro hell fire can also prove that it is not carcass, but whatever is said here, I will look into if again. But for now, there is fire. Is the fire hell or not? God destroyed the world with water one time, and there are seems to be evidences from the word that fire is the next. What are you saying? Do you want to explain further? Or do you want another person with higher level of revelation to continue? The Pharisees in Luke 16 were listening to Jesus Christ[Luke 16:14] these self righteous men saw the common Jew as nothing and they expected the Messiah to align with them, but when he didn’t, they often sneered, abused and maligned he and his works, so Jesus said that a significant change was going to occur between the self righteous persons and the common man in Judea[Luke 16:16] and that’s what set the pace for the parable that Jesus told in Luke 16:19-31.And he had to use the parable of hell for this? Hmmmm! I will have to think this your explanation through very well. Though, it sounded so vague. Honestly, it doesnt make much sense. Sorry. But let me think it through again. I doubt I can make much sense to this. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 7:23pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
iyambz:Thanks. I will look at it. Now, I can discuss with you. Lol. Please, give me time to look at what you have written. I don't just make comments, i try to get my facts right first. Thank you once again. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by DappaD: 7:33pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
@PeaceLoveJoy, whatever rocks your boat. Carry on. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Eviana(f): 7:40pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
Eviana: |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by charsola: 8:08pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
I can see someone here need to take his drugs, obviously the person is running mental quote author=Eviana post=98396579]MODIFIED (I missed the "cat" part). DISCLAIMER: I do believe that evil forces exist and folks get mixed up into witchcaft, the occult etc....has to exist since there is "good" and "evil". However, I'm not gonna agree with the "break-down" of the word --especially the "cat" part. That is bordering on superstition...associating animals with evil...or human beings which I don't subscribe to. While the word "cult" may be quite harsh or offensive, what the OP listed about the church is factual and accurate. There are characteristics that "cults" must have in order to be deemed one....and sometimes we label falsely...not saying that the OP is right or wrong in his use of the word. What the OP should offer is hope and an alternative. Labeling something "false" or negative, yet not providing an alternative really doesn't accomplish much. My particular denomination (imperfect as it is right now) has been labeled a "cult" since its inception... and made me somewhat nervous at first...and with a few doubts before I eventually knew that I was to get baptized into it as a young adult. But I also wasn't basing my feelings on biblical "facts", but rather "hear-say". So I understand the problems that come with trying to "de-program" a person's belief (whether sincere or in ignorance). However, many of the doctrines of the Catholic church, do not line up with the Lord God's biblical instructions for living and worshiping Him. In fact, many of her doctrines are almost the exact opposite of the Bible. The church's ruthless and dogmatic history is extremely problematic also. I say this with love and no harshness; but the truth has to be told. Perhaps (and I don't fully know because I am not in the head of the person who wrote this) the OP is listing these things as issues to look at for sincere Christians who sense the Holy Spirit gently speaking to them....showing them errors that may affect their spiritual lives. Showing them a path that leads to all truth....and to a genuine relationship with Christ. Get to know Him. The problem is the papal "institution" itself...not so much the sincere, Christians who are worshipping the Lord with all of their heart that identify with the denomination...and don't know anything different. Tradition can be a "beast" sometimes. A few people on this section need to see this thread...[/quote] |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Eviana(f): 8:15pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
charsola:I am confused. You quoted all of my words. Who exactly are you referring to? I don't relate well to cowardice in any shape or form. I like direct talk. Thank you |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 8:21pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
(Exo 34:14 kjv) "For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:" |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by YouAreFinished: 8:58pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
dumahi:This small thing,see the way you're foaming . I'm certain you also go about denigrating other people's faith ![]() |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 10:23pm On Feb 02, 2021 |
iyambz:Dearest sir, I agree with DappaD that the evidence is overwhelming that there is a strong reason to accept this verse was tampered with. And king James and the catholic refused to make a note there until scholars bursted their bubbles. The original version is: For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 1 John 5:7-8 NIV Here is King James: For there are three that bear record in heaven, [s] the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. [/s] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 1 John 5:7-8 KJV I am not just saying it, I agree with the arguement of DappaD when he mentioned Johannine Comma. I made further research, and I arrived at this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannine_Comma Take note that this verse is the basis for the disagreement between Catholic and the protestants. Please, read the wikipedia link above, and check on the references. I am still digesting the facts there. Mehn! So overwhelming. The catholic church you are criticizing is the same who added what you have just used as your strongest defence. And it is the same verse you used as your intro. Your intro should be your strongest defence, but you served right into his hand. Nonetheless, I will not over rule your other evidences. Let us read on. >(Deut 6:4) One GodVery funny you used this verse again. This was exactly what I was telling DappaD. He actually used this verse after saying Jehovah is God. Can you see you are using same here. But what I told him is that he needs to first state clearly God is JEHOVAH only. I like that you use this verse also. You can see my point. >(John 6:27) God the FatherI checked this. Most versions use the phrase God the Father . Jesus was the one quoted here. We may agree that this can be accepted if both of you agree the words of Jesus are true. I think most Christians agree on this. So, there is no tough argument here. >(John 20:26-28) God the SonIt seems Thomas the disciple was the one who called Jesus - my Lord, My God here. Was it a revelation to him? But I really want to accept this fact here because it was the scene after His resurrection and this revelation seems very deep. Not so clear, but the question is that why didnt Jesus rebuke him fast that he should not addressed him as God? This is a question I asked myself. He has resurrected here and back to his old glory and he was called Lord and God. Why did he not reject it? >(Acts 5:3-4) God the SpiritIn this verse, Peter confronted Ananias. He asked why he lied to the Holy Spirit. He also asked why he lied to God. Two different statements. I can see the introduction of the Holy Spirit here, but there is no connection between the two here. Let me read on. All these verses show the trinity. The word trinity is not in the Bible, but that doesn’t mean there is no trinity.So far, I can deduce the following: 1. God the father. 2. Jesus accepted the title of Godship here. Perhaps, if He is not God, He would have rejected it. Well, more evidences needed, but there is a strong point here. 3. The Holy Spirit is not yet connected to the Godship here. I agree with you that trinity is not in the Bible. Let us just see if we can connect the three successfully. 1. Man is a trinity: (1 Thess 5:23 kjv) – “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Man has 3 different parts. This means God has 3 different parts also.This is a wonderful parallel comparison. I agree that if we are made in the image of God, there is a strong evidence that since we are trinity (Spirit, soul and body), God is likely to be too. Hmmmmm. Excellent parallel comparison I must say. 2. Godhead (Acts 17:29; Rom 1:20; Col 2:9 kjv): These verses show that Godhead was mentioned. Godhead means God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.Let us Look at Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. Acts 17:29 KJV “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. Acts 17:29 NIV There is no mention of Godhead. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:20 NIV Note: Godhead mentioned in KJV For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, Colossians 2:9 NIV Note: Godhead mentioned in KJV. The question is this: Why is it ONLY King James that mentioned Godhead? Are you saying King James Version is the most accurate version? If you agree with this statement which you seem to favor more, be ready to accept that God is likely to be Jehovah mainly because only King James version uses JEHOVAH as God. And this is a strong argument Jehovah witness is using. One thing I need to confirm is everywhere King James uses Jehovah, which word is the Hebrew word there? I will check this out. Can you now see where I am driving at? If I continue probing this, you may not be able to defend all your claims, but some are correct and I can see logical parallels. While DappaD is correct is many cases too. Then, I dived into Godhead and I found this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhead_in_Christianity Then, I reliased why KJV used the word Godhead. Acts 17:29 Greek: θεῖον, Romanization: theion, Translation: "divine, godly" Romans 1:20 Greek: θειότης, Romanization: theiotēs, Translation: "divinity, divine nature" Colossians 2:9 Greek: θεότης, Romanization: theotēs, Translation: "deity" This is a strong argument though it has not yet directly shown the Bible linked the three together, but it is really making a lot of sense. Might be this is the reason KJV decided to add Johnenine Comma. But why didnt they do it like amplified version to let everyone know there is an addition? Just trying to figure this out. 3. Picture of trinity (The Sun):As funny as this section is, I like your sayings here, but bro, I cannot use it as a support. It makes sense, but you know what I am saying. Lol. 4. God mentioned as plural:Lovely points. Now, I should.start asking my questions. I think Jehovah witness agrees that Jesus exists too. I am not sure what they believe here. But I agree with you here that these verses signify there are more than one person there. 5. Distinction of Trinity:Now, you are addressing some stuff here. Hmmmm... They are one God, but not same person according to you. Hmmm... I am so overwhelmed with your bible verses. I will pick it up again tomorrow from 5 again. I must say there are some stuff here. I will update this post tomorrow. |
| Re: Catholicism, Everything That Is Wrong With It by Nobody: 10:52pm On Feb 02, 2021*. Modified: 7:50am On Feb 03, 2021 |
Eviana:Please, don't love me because I don't know you, and I don't want to know you. Period. |
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. I'm certain you also go about denigrating other people's faith 