₦airaland Forum

PeaceLoveJoy:
Please, don't love me because I don't know you, and I don't want to know you. Period.

Just so you know, the love is not a romantic love at all.
Period.
It is agape.
I think you think that i am desperate.
I know who you really are...finally.
It all makes sense now...so much sense.
I thought you were defending my choice of words on my reply to iamby &you spazz out, freak out & go ballistic. You start an all-out witch hunt. Yet you do not know me...hmmm..
I wanted to address some of the lies told here...& the unprovoked verbal character assasination the other day.
Please follow the advise you gave Muttleylaff on his thread concerning me.
I bother no one on this site & would like you to do the same towards me.
My only crime is being a woman who unashamedly loves my Savior.
It was you who yet again showed up out of nowher (since it has been 11 months-no contact) on threads i was already on.
In the future, I am going to comment on any post i feel i need to (until they ban me & i wait)...and it may be uncomfortable for you..my apologies.

I am not afraid of your threats and retaliation/vindication anymore.
You will need to ignore me.
I tried reaching you privately a few times today & you chose not to answer.
This is why i am writing here.
Again the Lord God knows all.
Praying for you to surrender to Jesus soon.

Sorry everyone...said earlier that would be my final words on my other post.

Eviana,

What is your opinion about trinity? I hope you have been reading our discussion. We have been able to move it from direct attacks on denominations to focus on addressing the real issues. 1 John 5:7-8 is the basis of this discussion where a phrase was added in KJV and it has been expunged by most other versions. However, there are evidences coming up which point us to the fact the inclusion may be reasonable after all, but KJV should had included "a note" in the verse. Iyambz has said the word Trinity is not in the Bible, but he has done a good job so far (note that I have not finished my comments on his last post, I will return to it later in the day). Also, DappaD who is a Jehovah Witness gave vital points and I respect him for his points. He revealed so many things. The most accurate is Johnenine Comma. That was a fact no one in this present time should ignore. That is a fact we must put into consideration everytime we defend the Bible. We cannot ignore it. And it is why beating our chests and arguing blindly is not the case here. We can only write what have been revealed to us and we cannot choke them down the throats of others. And if they dont accept them, Jesus has told us to leave them and walk away. What we are doing here is exactly the words of Jesus. Can you see how DappaD temporarily closed his case above? He didnt abuse me on the facts I ruled out. He did not get angry about them. Let me post his words here:

DappaD:
@PeaceLoveJoy, whatever rocks your boat. Carry on.

I guess he is relaxing temporarily to read the argument of his opponents and my comments. This is what I want us to do. Rather than attacking Witnesses and Catholic, let us address the issues. We all will learn so much.

I am sure DappaD has stuff in him. Another he mentioned is the Inquistion and the crusades - a powerful revelation on record catholic can never deny. These are facts we cannot ignore. In fact I am beginning to study them; however I told him neatly that the subject cannot be applied to address the discussion here because it is too broad. I am sure he understands what I meant. But I am definitely setting aside my time to read it from A to Z.

It gets so exciting when the same KJV which Witnesses accused of Johnenine Comma is the same version which consistently use JEHOVAH in the references DappaD gave in support that God's name is ONLY Jehovah. Facts are what I am pulling out. And he has not yet given the reason why he accepted JEHOVAH written by KJV and he has refused till date to accept there might be strong reasons KJV added the phrases in Johnenine Comma he rejected. Can you see that I am not asking you to shred KJV.

The other issue is the existence of hell. So far, we have established Bible mentioned fire and hell. The argument is that it is literary or in parables. Ok. DappaD agrees with this. What I find interesting is that he agrees that there can be indirect meaning to something in the Bible when it comes to the existence of hell. What if he uses the same approach with trinity? Could it mean that there might be an advance meaning to some of the references used by pro trinity he doesnt want to agree with? He wants us to reason with him (which definitely I am opened to) that there is more to what the bible mentioned about hell, then using the same standard, I must listen to pro trinity who are saying there is no exact word as trinity in the Bible.

Madam, we are focused on these two topics here. Kindly make yourself resourceful and dive into these issues. Thanks and God bless!

PeaceLoveJoy:

It gets so exciting when the same KJV which Witnesses accused of Johnenine Comma is the same version which consistently use JEHOVAH in the references DappaD gave in support that God's name is ONLY Jehovah. Facts are what I am pulling out. And he has not yet given the reason why he accepted JEHOVAH written by KJV and he has refused till date to accept there might be strong reasons KJV added the phrases in Johnenine Comma he rejected. Can you see that I am not asking you to shred KJV.

Here are the standards we are to follow in the discussion: Let God[through the Bible] be found true and let every other man be a liar. Romans 3:4

Please I’ll have you know that the Bible was not written in either ancient or modern English. It was written in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek. So if we are to consider the real meanings of the words in the Bible, we must take into account what the word actually means in the original language.


I used the KJV as a reference for the name “Jehovah” in those specific verses, which are Exodus 6:3, Psalm 83:18 and Isaiah 12:2 because the version is popular amongst many and the translators did not stamp the name out there. In the newer version however, they’ve changed the name “Jehovah” to “LORD” as usual.
There are other versions that render Jehovah’s name to some degree which is the American Standard Version. The New World Translation used by Jehovah’s Witnesses restores the original rendering of YHWH[Hebrew] in the Latinized form “Jehovah” to its rightful places which appear more 7,000times in both the Old and New Testaments. Several translators replaces God’s name with titles such as ADONAI[Hebrew] which translates to LORD[English]. By doing this, impetus was also given to the Trinity doctrine because it was assumed that Lord in both the OT and NT was referring to Jesus. On the contrary, Psalm 110:1 shows two Lords, one greater than the other.
In the original Hebrew and translated directly to English, it would read “Jehovah said to my Lord”.
Jesus applied those words to himself because he knew that he was the lesser Lord.
Matthew 22:42-45
“Lord”[Hebrew: Adonai, Greek: Kyrios] is just a title meaning “Master” and even several humans[Abraham,Moses,David] were called the same title but they also had personal names. Genesis 18:13, Exodus 32:22, 1Samuel 25:24, 1Corinthians 8:5
So in essence what I’ve been saying is that the Hebrew word YHWH does not translate to LORD in English but rather “Yahweh/Jehovah” and that is where the whole mix up is coming from.

Satan is also doing his best to blind the eyes of many people so that the truth will not come out.
2Corinthians 4:4

--- Continuation ----

iyambz:
5. Distinction of Trinity:
The Father, Son, and Spirit are one God, but not the same person. (John 14:28 kjv) – God the Son exalts the Father. (John 16:13-14 kjv) – God the Spirit exalts the Son. This is why you don’t pray to the Holy Spirit, you should pray to the Father and Son only. The Holy Spirit doesn’t brag on himself, He only brags on Jesus (1 John 4:1-3, 10-15; 5:9-13 kjv).

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 14:28 KJV
Note: The Father who we have established as God is greater than the speaker (Jesus). Therefore, we have 2 personalities or beings here. Not sure if I should use deity or deities (this is the argument). Nothing about the Spirit here.


Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
John 16:13‭-‬14 KJV
Now, we have introduction of the 3rd person here - The Holy Spirit. Yet, there is no strong evidence to justify linking them together. This verse says use "himself" to address him. Hmmmm.


Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye [b]the Spirit of God: [/b]Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1 John 4:1‭-‬3 KJV

Iyambz, please, could you explain who/what is the spirit of God? I know you have mentioned man as Trinity: Spirit, soul, and Body. So far, we have been reading about God, Jesus and Spirit. So, what is this new phrase: "The spirit of God". And what is the relationship or difference with the Holy Spirit l, and the spirit we have been talking about.
1. Spirit
2. Spirit of God
3. Holy Spirit.
Could you shed more light on these three?

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 4:10‭-‬15 KJV
His Spirit means what? Same question I asked above.

And the last one, just states Gid and His son.

6. Basis of the Trinity:
a. Baptism (Matt 28:19 kjv). This verse shows there is God the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:19 KJV
1. God, the Father
2. Son - Jesus
3. The Holy Ghost/Spirit (who or what is the spirit, and the spirit of God)?
Yes, I do not think DappaD is disputing the above. It has been established the three above exists. Also, it has been established the father is God. The questions

1. Is the son (Jesus) God?
2. Is the Holy Spirit/Ghost God?
I think so far I have not been convinced beyond reasonable doubt they are as you claimed. Though, you are free, or anyone is free to explain further or re-explain any verse or reference I might have omitted or not explained well.


b. Benediction (2 Cor 113:14 kjv).
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
2 Corinthians 13:14 KJV
My favorite verse, but no proof the three are all God here.

c. New Birth (Salvation) (John 3:5 kjv).
d. Prayer (Rom 15:30 kjv).
e. Salvation (1 Pet 1:2 kjv).

I repeat, ONLY one has been proved beyond reasonable doubt as God so far, and He is the father.

7. Trinity acting in unity:
a. (i). In creation (Gen 1:3 kjv). (ii). In (John 1:1,3 kjv) The word became flesh which is Jesus Christ (spoken word). (iii). In (Gen 1:2 kjv) the Spirit of God was involved in creation.
b. Incarnation (virgin birth of Jesus). (i). God gave His only Son (John 3:16 kjv). (ii). Jesus was involved because He was born (Luke 2:11 kjv). (iii). Holy Ghost was involved in the incarnation (Luke 1:35 kjv). He went inside Mary.
c. Redemption (Heb 9:14 kjv). (i) God purge our conscience. (ii). Blood of Jesus washed out our sins. (iii). The blood of Christ was able to cleanse us of our sins through the Holy Spirit.
d. Salvation: (i). (Luke 15:22 kjv) The Father (prodigal son). (ii). (Luke 15:4 kjv) Jesus (Shepherd). (iii). (Eph 1:13 kjv) The Holy Spirit sealed us. This is a great verse on “once saved always saved.”
e. Communion:
i. (Eph 2:18 kjv) We talk to God the Father.
ii. (2 Cor 5:19 kjv) Jesus made it possible for us to have access to the Father; to communion with God the Father.
iii. (Eph 2:18 kjv) Holy Spirit gives us the access to talk to God the Father.
f. Prayer: (John 16:23 kjv) God the Father and Son. (Rom 8:26 kjv) The Holy Spirit.
g. In Glory: (i) (1 Cor 15:24) The Father (Millennium). (ii). (Phil 3:21 kjv) The Son (He will change our body). (iii). (Rev 22:17 kjv) The Holy Spirit giving us invitation to glory.
h. Regeneration. (i). (Luke 10:20 kjv) The Father wrote our name in Heaven (the book of life). (ii). (Eph 1:7 kjv) Jesus blood wash away our sin and gave us a new birth. (iii). (John 3:3,5,6 kjv) The Holy Spirit regenerated us (The spiritual birth; born again).

8. Attributes of God in Trinity:
a. Eternal:
1. (Psa 90:2 kjv) The Father.
2. (Rev 1:8 kjv) The Son. (vss 17&18 show it was Jesus Christ).
3. (Heb 9:14 kjv) God the Spirit. Eternal Spirit.
b. Omnipotent:
1. (1 Pet 1:5 kjv) God the Father.
2. (2 Cor 12:9 kjv) The Son has all the power.
3. (Rom 15:19 kjv) The Spirit has all the power.
c. Omniscience:
1. (Jer 17:10 kjv) The Father.
2. (Rev 2:23 kjv) The Son. (Rev 1:18 shows that it was Jesus that was talking).
3. (1 Cor 2:11 kjv) The Holy Spirit looks at the heart of men.
d. Omnipresence:
1. (Jer 23:24 kjv) The Father.
2. (Matt 18:20 kjv) The Son.
3. (Psa 139:7 kjv) The Holy Spirit.
e. His Holiness:
1. (Rev 15:4 kjv) The Father.
2. (Acts 3:14 kjv) The Son.
3. (Luke 1:15 kjv) The Spirit.
f. Truth:
1. (John 7:28 kjv) The Father.
2. (Rev 3:7 kjv) The Son.
3. (1 John 5:6 kjv) The Holy Spirit.
g. Benevolent:
1. (Rom 2:4 kjv) The Father
2. (Eph 5:25 kjv) The Son)
3. (Neh 9:20 kjv) The Holy Spirit.
h. Communion:
1. (1 John 1:3 kjv) The Father.
2. (1 John 1:3 kjv) The Son.
3. (2 Cor 13:14 kjv) The Holy Spirit.

Honestly, I am exhausted with the Bible references and I cannot figure out exactly the points we need.

If I ask again, what is Trinity? I expect to really see a straight answer. To me, it is Godhead you mentioned. Yes, there is no argument there are the following:

1. The father - who the Bible calls God.
2. The son - who is Jesus Christ. The question is that is he God?
3. The Holy Spirit. Is he the Spirit? Is he the Spirit of God? Explain very well. And lastly, how is God?

In the Bible, man is said to be Trinity - Spirit, Soul, and Body. So, how is God trinity is rhe question. Connect the three personalities well. Convince us they are Trinity. The evidence is there they might be. Strong ones I agree, esp the reference which KJV keeps referring to Godhead and explain further.

Note: I wrote it earlier that neither have I read anyone who connected them, nor unconnected them perfectly . Just like DappaD said, perhaps, we agree it is a mystery. Lol.

How is Jesus God?
How is the Holy Spirit God?

The questions above are simple and direct.

DappaD:
Here are the standards we are to follow in the discussion: Let God[through the Bible] be found true and let every other man be a liar. Romans 3:4

Please I’ll have you know that the Bible was not written in either ancient or modern English. It was written in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek. So if we are to consider the real meanings of the words in the Bible, we must take into account what the word actually means in the original language.

Your standard using Rom 3:4 does not apply. Just go to the supports sir. Let's leave every other man and his lies alone.

I agree, you should let us go to the original transcript. Take note of the underlined phrase above. I'm going to ask you a question below about it.

I used the KJV as a reference for the name “Jehovah” in those specific verses, which are Exodus 6:3, Psalm 83:18 and Isaiah 12:2 because the version is popular amongst many and the translators did not stamp the name out there. In the newer version however, they’ve changed the name “Jehovah” to “LORD” as usual.
There are other versions that render Jehovah’s name to some degree which is the American Standard Version. The New World Translation used by Jehovah’s Witnesses restores the original rendering of YHWH[Hebrew] in the Latinized form “Jehovah” to its rightful places which appear more 7,000times in both the Old and New Testaments. Several translators replaces God’s name with titles such as ADONAI[Hebrew] which translates to LORD[English]. By doing this, impetus was also given to the Trinity doctrine because it was assumed that Lord in both the OT and NT was referring to Jesus. On the contrary, Psalm 110:1 shows two Lords, one greater than the other.
So far, I do not think I have mixed up the terms, but thank you very much for bringing it up. I so much like the way you put it right here. I agree with you. This is how yoy should have started your argument instead of going through KJV.

Agreed. You have just defined a new approach you want to take to establish your facts. Nothing yet you have fully established. And I appreciate your style. Thanks bro. I agree with you that we mix up names and terms. Exactly the point I was making. God bless you. You have even buttressed my point. In order not to mix up everything is why I always pick points and I eliminate many there, and then arrive at few points I can say yes, this is the position we are so far. And i will still tell you the position we are so far here.

In the original Hebrew and translated directly to English, it would read “Jehovah said to my Lord”.
Jesus applied those words to himself because he knew that he was the lesser Lord.
Matthew 22:42-45
“Lord”[Hebrew: Adonai, Greek: Kyrios] is just a title meaning “Master” and even several humans[Abraham,Moses,David] were called the same title but they also had personal names. Genesis 18:13, Exodus 32:22, 1Samuel 25:24, 1Corinthians 8:5
So in essence what I’ve been saying is that the Hebrew word YHWH does not translate to LORD in English but rather “Yahweh/Jehovah” and that is where the whole mix up is coming from.

Questions And Points to Clarify:
1. If I understand you accurately, the name of God is YHWH (Hebrew).
2. YHWH is Jehovah in English (according to you or according to who? Give reference)
3. YHWH is God the Father. If we do not see YHWH, it is not the father, but likely the son or the Spirit.
4. Every other places we see LORD, Adonai, or any other parallel English meaning of God and the root original word is not YHWH is not God the father.

After clarifying the above, please, do the following:
5. You mentioned above that what we need to check is the root word, and it is written in the following languages: Ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek. Kindly post here the equivalent of YHWH in the three languages.Write out the exact way it is written in the languages. From here, we will proceed.

6. Take note of the Godhead verses quoted by Iyambz and refute them if you can. KJV used Godhead there. Anyway you can explain what these verses are?

7. Could you kindly read through many of his verses again, and see if you can re explain some of the things he wrote, and some of the points I made. This may lead us somewhere.

Satan is also doing his best to blind the eyes of many people so that the truth will not come out.
2Corinthians 4:4

There is no need for this comment. Do yours and leave it. What if it is God's way of showing the world deeper things. You are hitting the nail right on the head, but you have not fully gotten the job done. So far, I do not think I'm partial. I've just made comments on your references, and I ask questions.

On the existence of hell, seems you are unable make further clarification, amd its stalemate. It's ok. We can move on with Trinity.

Bless you!

Our position so far on Trinity:

1. The Father has been established as God.
2. There is the son - Jesus. There are references which might suggest he is God also, but it has not been fully established in this thread so far. There is a clause that some places he is referred to as God is not actually God, but are mixed ups based on many different English translations we have. A point, but the said verses are yet to be proved fully wrong.
3. There is Holy Spirit. Who/What is he? There are two other terms: i) the Spirit, and ii) the spirit of God. How are these two terms related to the Holy Spirit. We have not yet established that he is God.
4. There are Godhead verses which suggest the three are related. One strong point is that man is made in the image of God. If man is Trinity: spirit, soul, and body, can we say the same applies to God?
5. Explaining 4 above further, Man is Trinity in the sense that you can say I am one person. I have Spirit, Soul, and body. But we have established that God the father is a personality (being or deity, not sure of what to use here), the son is a personality, and the Holy Spirit is too cos there are places "himself" is used to address him. I am confused here. Man is one personality and Trinity, while the Godhead is 3 personalities. So, can we say this parallel is sufficient enough?

Note: This argument is for Christians ONLY.

@PeaceLoveJoy, please keep my name out of the same sentence with this nonsensical Trinity of yours. I’m one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I don’t believe in such garbage.
My own God JEHOVAH is ONE not a three-faced god. Deuteronomy 6:4
My own God JEHOVAH is not a mystery, we can KNOW him and his ways/standards through study of the Scriptures.
Psalm 103:8, Amos 3:7, John 17:3

So stop mentioning me to make it look as if me and you have an agreement on anything concerning your Trinity, we are on opposite sides here.
Luke 16:26

The reason why I ended the previous discussion was because, you kept on asking the same questions over and over again. The only thing left for you to do was to debunk my assertions, not to keep asking me the same thing when my answers are always from within the realm of the Scriptures.

DappaD:
@PeaceLoveJoy, please keep my name out of the same sentence with this nonsensical Trinity of yours. I’m one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I don’t believe in such garbage.
My own God JEHOVAH is ONE not a three-faced god. Deuteronomy 6:4
My own God JEHOVAH is not a mystery, we can KNOW him and his ways/standards through study of the Scriptures.
Psalm 103:8, Amos 3:7, John 17:3

So stop mentioning me to make it look as if me and you have an agreement on anything concerning your Trinity, we are on opposite sides here.
Luke 16:26

The reason why I ended the previous discussion was because, you kept on asking the same questions over and over again. The only thing left for you to do was to debunk my assertions, not to keep asking me the same thing when my answers are always from within the realm of the Scriptures.

Go and read my posts, I don't send anyone. If you try to harrass me, I will dish you what you deserve. And so if you are a Witness? I don't care who you are. I don't even want to know. You see, you are the reason they attack the denomination. What brings about you saying "you are a Jehovah witness here"? Did you read Jehovah witness in the Bible? You wrote about Jehovah, you insisted, you gave references, and I highlighted points and asked questions. You cannot move them further, and you turned it to nonsensical whatever. It is your brain that is nonsensical. When you meet someone who is grounded, and you cannot defend your faith further, you turn it to a fight. Lol.

Your own Jehovah is not mystery, but you cannot make it clear, sound, and distinct. You are "olodo". Oga, your response here shows your Jehovah is indeed imaginary. You cannot defend your Jehovah. Lol.

I have been not so partial. Lol. You bursted out like a balloon that has just exploded. Oga, dont ever choke your Jehovah down the throat of people. Jehovah this, Jehovah that. Tell us where it originates, no response. So, you formed the English word out of no where? Why so important I call him Jehovah? No response. Oh! Root is YMH...whatever. Relate them. So, you expect me to just take your unexplained assumption that YHWH exists without knowing the real root? And I must accept YHWH is Jehovah y all means without you explaining deeply? Lol. You are a clown. A real clown. Hahahahhaha! Like YHWH are Hebrew alphabets. Go park well. If you cannot defend it, and explain the questions you are asked, keep shut and get heck out.

The other person has not been able to show Trinity accurately, and you concluded I am on his side. Your head dey pain you. Get the heck out with your theories you cannot explain. You can go and deceive people who cannot bring facts out. Not me. If another Jehovah Witness has the patience to explain and will not get angry when we ask questions further, I am cool to go on. This one is a church follower. He crammed all what he is told. La Cram La pour. He has poured all what is downloaded into his skull, and nothing more to put further. No wonder atheists laugh at you when you explain and get exhausted. Lol. When you get to the stage you have no more answers, you become a demon. Hahahahhaha.

Park well!

A beg, another witness who can give answers to my questions?

Good day and Bye! Yeye member of Jehovah Witness member. Na so your Jehovah tell you to use frustration explain he is your Jehovah?


Like I have said, both sides have not been able to prove their points beyond reasonable doubts. And what beats my imagination is how these people (people who argue) say things authoritatively. Cant you see the madness in these people? His Jehovah is not a mystery, and he is not able to defend it accurately. He brought Jehovah out of no where. Jehovah is not Lord. Jehovah is not Adonai. He must be only Jehovah. And the Jehovah is an English word. Lol. Why? Because this guy is a Jehovah Witness and the real God must be Jehovah. Your brain is upside down if I may tell you. Totally in disarray. If you are foo.lish, I am not. It is you who will tell me Jehovah overrides Lord as if you have PHD in ancient English. Nonsense. You want to use English expression to force the word Jehovah on all the world because He is JEHOVAH. Let me tell you plainly.

Hell existence, you just explained it unreasonably. Mad...ness is running in your blood. Just causing confusion everywhere, and choking it down the throats of people. We must all agree by fire and force is ONLY name is JEHOVAH. hahahha. English word for that matter.

Get off! And goodbye.

PeaceLoveJoy:
...

I apologize for the outburst. But you’re actually not getting me. I don’t shy away from discussions such as these. I’m not saying you cannot ask auxiliary questions, but, when I make an assertion(claim), all that’s needed from you is to try and debunk it that’s how the discussion moves forward. Not to incessantly ask the same questions over and over again.

For example, I said the name of God according to the Bible is יהוה‎ in Hebrew. When transliterated to English consonants is YHWH i.e. Yod Heh Waw Heh and adding English vowels, it would then be rendered Yahweh and translated to modern English is Jehovah

The real meaning of the word יהוה‎ stays the same when translated in English to Jehovah.

Exodus 3:15

“And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, יהוה‎ God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.”

Isaiah 42:8

“I am יהוה‎: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.”

Take note of the bolded in the above verses. That’s the original Hebrew word transliterated as YHWH in those verses which means “He Causes to Become” as most scholars agree too since the root word HWH[hawah] means “To Be”.

Remember I told you that the Bible was neither written in ancient nor modern English. So יהוה‎[YHWH] in Hebrew can never be translated as LORD because the Hebrew word for LORD is אָדוֹן which means ADONAI and this doesn’t appear in any of those verses I quoted in the onset but יהוה‎[YHWH] appears there instead.
Deuteronomy 6:4

DappaD:
I apologize for the outburst. But you’re actually not getting me. I don’t shy away from discussions such as these. I’m not saying you cannot ask auxiliary questions, but, when I make an assertion(claim), all that’s needed from you is to try and debunk it that’s how the discussion moves forward. Not to incessantly ask the same questions over and over again.

For example, I said the name of God according to the Bible is יהוה‎ in Hebrew. When transliterated to English consonants is YHWH i.e. Yod Heh Waw Heh and adding English vowels, it would then be rendered Yahweh and translated to modern English is Jehovah

The real meaning of the word יהוה‎ stays the same when translated in English to Jehovah.

Exodus 3:15

“And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, יהוה‎ God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.”

Isaiah 42:8

“I am יהוה‎: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.”

Take note of the bolded in the above verses. That’s the original Hebrew word transliterated as YHWH in those verses which means “He Causes to Become” as most scholars agree too since the root word HWH[hawah] means “To Be”.

Remember I told you that the Bible was neither written in ancient nor modern English. So יהוה‎[YHWH] in Hebrew can never be translated as LORD because the Hebrew word for LORD is אָדוֹן which means ADONAI and this doesn’t appear in any of those verses I quoted in the onset but יהוה‎[YHWH] appears there instead.
Deuteronomy 6:4

All you are trying to say, I understand perfectly.
יהוה‎ is YHWH in accepted English. And because the consonants cannot be produced well, some vowels were added, and we arrive at YAHWEH. It is right to say the word you are referring to is YAHWEH. How it became Jehovah is another subject of discussion which I don't want to go into because it is not important here. My point is that I can decide to ignore your English word Jehovah if I so wish to. As long as I use YAHWEH, I know what I am saying. Jehovah is an English word and how Jehovah Witness decides to adopt it via King James Version is not relevant. And how you always relate it to Jehovah witness is not relevant. The subject of discussion which you have analysed is that YAHWEH is God, the father. It is simple as ABC.

We have dealt with the Hebrew word to define God as YAHWEH, and we know the Hebrew Alphabets. Let us leave Adonai alone. Next, let us see the alphabets of YAHWEH in Aramaic and Koine Greek so we can check New Tesfament. You are just saying it, but I need you bring them out.

Listen I know these things, but I have not yet seen anyone who linked God, Jesus and Holy Spirit as GOD using the scriptures directly, and no one has been able to dis-unify them successfully too. This is my point. Anyone who can do it, I want to ask the fellow questions. I will ask based on the person's analysis.

So, go on let us have the equivalents in Aramaic and Koine Greek.

I guess pro Trinity are exhausted. None of them can link them directly since we have shown evidence to prove that catholic is guilty of Johnenine Comma. Why? The catholic church knows there is no strong evidence they can use, so that verse was readjusted, and many have used it unknowingly for so long. But I put it to you too, you also cannot dis-unify them cos there are grey areas which will disqualify you too.

So, I will rather use the word YAHWEH since it is the REAL english word for God the father. Jehovah is a synonym of YAHWEH according to you, and your denomination adopts it. Period. If another denomination claims LORD is another synonym, why are you angry? If another claim Adonai is another synonym, why are you angry?

If Jehovah is sacred to you, what you need to do is explain it well just like how you successfully explain YHWH amd Yahweh with the real Hebrew alphabets. When you explain well, and you can prove your points, no one will argue with you. The problems lie when you dont successfully connect all dots, but still claiming you are totally accurate. No one will ever dispute that YAHWEH is not God the father. But what is the real story behind JEHOVAH?

I can go on cos you will start explaining why Jehovah is a suffix? Jehovah - Jireh...Jehovah Nissi... etc. Yeah, English generally accepted Jehovah. And when there is going to be explanation I always read it means "The LORD is....". So, what is your problem with this? English explains it in its language. Are you an English man to know what to use or not? Don't you have different meaning for the same word in English? Please, do not get so emotional when it comes to what your denomination adopts. The most important issue here is this. Yahweh is God the Father. Period.

So what are the equivalent of יהוה‎ in Aramaic and Koine Greek? And prove to us these equivalents are real so we can start using them to check.

Eviana, PeaceLoveJoy and DappaD according to the bible no human being knows God's real name. It is just as like Eviana, PeaceLoveJoy and DappaD aren't either of you three' real names and no one of this thread knows what Eviana, PeaceLoveJoy and DappaD real names are.

Empirical evidence supports the biblical facts that no human being knows God's personal name. Jehovah, a Latinized word that DappaD is palming off as God's personal name, is in fact, an invented, make believe, faked and manufactured word put to use as God's personal. Yahweh, which isnt God's personal name, is the verbalisation of the four-lettered alphabets, YHWH, otherwise known as the Tetragrammaton. There is no J in the Hebrew alphabet, so how did YHWH become JHVH and then translate to Jehovah.

Job 4:10
The lion roars and the wildcat snarls, but the teeth of strong lions will be broken.

iyambz, you really tried over pushing the envelope with something as nonsensical as saying, 'Catholic - “Cat | Holics.” Do you know the animal “CAT” is so evil that it wasn’t even mentioned in the Bible?

What kind of 'I’m just a Bible student, and I’m not perfect. KJV Bible believer' are you? Correct bible wisdom, let's a real and astute bible student know that the word Catholic comes from the latin word 'katholikos' which means universal and that the word Catholic has nothing at all to do with feline animals of any sort.

Also, iyambz, if you insist, that the animal “CAT” is so evil that it wasn’t even mentioned in the Bible, then aside from Job 4:10, what family of animals, do you know that the lion is from?

BassReeves:
Eviana, PeaceLoveJoy and DappaD according to the bible no human being knows God's real name. It is just as like Eviana, PeaceLoveJoy and DappaD aren't either of you three' real names and no one of this thread knows what Eviana, PeaceLoveJoy and DappaD real names are.

Empirical evidence supports the biblical facts that no human being knows God's personal name. Jehovah, a Latinized word that DappaD is palming off as God's personal name, is in fact, an invented, make believe, faked and manufactured word put to use as God's personal. Yahweh, which isnt God's personal name, is the verbalisation of the four-lettered alphabets, YHWH, otherwise known as the Tetragrammaton. There is no J in the Hebrew alphabet, so how did YHWH become JHVH and then translate to Jehovah.

Well, I know some of these things (not all) also. But one thing is clear: All the words are agreed synonyms of GOD which can be proved, but I will rather not go there now. At least we must call him something.

While I would have preferred you use references to support your points anytime you write, I am not going to dive into it because it is not that relevant in this discussion. It will only lead to unnecessary debate. And it will hand them over the chance to sneak away and do it the way they usually do it - argue and close it. The focus here is connecting or disconnecting the dots of Trinity. A point I have made known to Iyambz is that Johnenine Comma is real. He keeps mentioning KJV everytime. Can you see he is silent presently? The verse he is always using has been expunged by many other versions when evidences are too many which cannot be denied. But many still use it unknowingly. Then, the lady accused me of asking her to shred KJV. If I allowed them to go on, they will start shouting and yelling, and the focus will be lost. Irrelevancies they will all bring in.

BUT we know one thing: We are referring to one person: The Father. The issue of Jesus and the Holy Spirit sharing the same name is what they cannot prove or disprove. This is my point. But when they make references from the Bible, they keep using the ones that talk about them without connecting them. The only verse which connects them as God and specifically say they are one is Johnenine Comma

Moving further, let us look at the root word DappaD is using. I know why I allowed him talk and I refused to not start pushing my own thoughts because I don't want it turn to a debate. I have not done that and he yelled at me. Not to talk about when I start pulling out evidences. I just want him to box himself to a corner he cannot escape from. And it seems he is hooked already just like how Iyambz is hooked. Even with the existence of hell. He has boxed himself to the corner, and it is why he cannot see the new questions but regarded them as repetitions. Let us look at the root words and take note of the dot(s) above and below it. They are variants from the same base:

Genesis 2:4 - יְהוָה‎ - Yǝhwāh - first occurence in the Bible

Genesis 3:14 - יְהֹוָה‎ - Yǝhōwāh - vowels from Adonai

Judges 16:28 - יֱהֹוִה‎ - Yĕhōwih - preceded Adonai, and received from Elohim

Genesis 15:2 - יֱהוִה‎ - Yĕhwih -

1 Kings 2:26 - יְהֹוִה‎ - Yǝhōwih

Ezekiel 24:24 - יְהוִה‎ - Yǝhwih

And so "on and on" we can continue. My point is that those who used other names as synonyms have their reasons also. Whether you accept them or not is not the subject of this discussion. We all know the personality we are talking about is God, the Father. So, why dont we just say Yahweh and let's move on. So connect or disconnect Him from the other two. Pro Trinity guys have stepped aside, and we are still waiting for the guy against it to finish the job. Make we dey see na. I will not be the person to help anyone to finish it; otherwise, it will turn to a useless debate they always make it. You.can see an evidence up there where I was accused wrongly of nonsensical whatever when I have been non partial from the start.

Also, i have so far refused to attack either of the denominations involved here. The subjects at hand are what I am focused on.

Therefore, let us leave Telegrammation on one side. It is not the focus here. Let them connect or disconnect the dots. Period.

BassReeves:
Job 4:10
The lion roars and the wildcat snarls, but the teeth of strong lions will be broken.

iyambz, you really tried over pushing the envelope with something as nonsensical as saying, 'Catholic - “Cat | Holics.” Do you know the animal “CAT” is so evil that it wasn’t even mentioned in the Bible?

What kind of 'I’m just a Bible student, and I’m not perfect. KJV Bible believer' are you? Correct bible wisdom, let's a real and astute bible student know that the word Catholic comes from the latin word 'katholikos' which means universal and that the word Catholic has nothing at all to do with feline animals of any sort.

Also, iyambz, if you insist, that the animal “CAT” is so evil that it wasn’t even mentioned in the Bible, then aside from Job 4:10, what family of animals, do you know that the lion is from?

Lol! And the boldness and audacity he uses in his posts is so funny but alarming. This is the typical Nigerian pasto style. Only extremely few are grounded in the WORD. Most just want to force their own truths down our throats. I repeat, this is the reason atheists laugh at them seriously. Some people on this platform are paid to just cause wahala. I repeat their focus is not religion, but politics. Religion is just a vehicle to achieve their selfish goals. Religion truly has reduced man to a shadow of himself - backwardness. However, it doesnt make me an atheist.

The KJV did some work that can't be rubbished outrightly, YAHWEH is much closer in meaning to the four Hebrew consonants YHWH that represents the divine name. But if we are to put it right then we have to go through all other names like Jacob, Joshua, Jeremiah, Jerusalem, John and even Jesus! None of those names are correct in pronunciation if we're to stick to the original Hebrew texts. It's not reasonable to leave God's name in the original Hebrew text then use the translitration for the name of God's son.
If you're now saying YAHWEH is your choice of pronunciation then "Jesus" is a wrong rendering for the name of God's son!

PeaceLoveJoy:
All you are trying to say, I understand perfectly.
יהוה‎ is YHWH in accepted English. And because the consonants cannot be produced well, some vowels were added, and we arrive at YAHWEH. It is right to say the word you are referring to is YAHWEH. How it became Jehovah is another subject of discussion which I don't want to go into because it is not important here. My point is that I can decide to ignore your English word Jehovah if I so wish to. As long as I use YAHWEH, I know what I am saying. Jehovah is an English word and how Jehovah Witness decides to adopt it via King James Version is not relevant. And how you always relate it to Jehovah witness is not relevant. The subject of discussion which you have analysed is that YAHWEH is God, the father. It is simple as ABC.

We have dealt with the Hebrew word to define God as YAHWEH, and we know the Hebrew Alphabets. Let us leave Adonai alone. Next, let us see the alphabets of YAHWEH in Aramaic and Koine Greek so we can check New Tesfament. You are just saying it, but I need you bring them out.

Listen I know these things, but I have not yet seen anyone who linked God, Jesus and Holy Spirit as GOD using the scriptures directly, and no one has been able to dis-unify them successfully too. This is my point. Anyone who can do it, I want to ask the fellow questions. I will ask based on the person's analysis.

So, go on let us have the equivalents in Aramaic and Koine Greek.

I guess pro Trinity are exhausted. None of them can link them directly since we have shown evidence to prove that catholic is guilty of Johnenine Comma. Why? The catholic church knows there is no strong evidence they can use, so that verse was readjusted, and many have used it unknowingly for so long. But I put it to you too, you also cannot dis-unify them cos there are grey areas which will disqualify you too.

So, I will rather use the word YAHWEH since it is the REAL english word for God the father. Jehovah is a synonym of YAHWEH according to you, and your denomination adopts it. Period. If another denomination claims LORD is another synonym, why are you angry? If another claim Adonai is another synonym, why are you angry?

If Jehovah is sacred to you, what you need to do is explain it well just like how you successfully explain YHWH amd Yahweh with the real Hebrew alphabets. When you explain well, and you can prove your points, no one will argue with you. The problems lie when you dont successfully connect all dots, but still claiming you are totally accurate. No one will ever dispute that YAHWEH is not God the father. But what is the real story behind JEHOVAH?

I can go on cos you will start explaining why Jehovah is a suffix? Jehovah - Jireh...Jehovah Nissi... etc. Yeah, English generally accepted Jehovah. And when there is going to be explanation I always read it means "The LORD is....". So, what is your problem with this? English explains it in its language. Are you an English man to know what to use or not? Don't you have different meaning for the same word in English? Please, do not get so emotional when it comes to what your denomination adopts. The most important issue here is this. Yahweh is God the Father. Period.

So what are the equivalent of יהוה‎ in Aramaic and Koine Greek? And prove to us these equivalents are real so we can start using them to check.

PeaceLoveJoy:
Well, I know some of these things (not all) also. But one thing is clear: All the words are agreed synonyms of GOD which can be proved, but I will rather not go there now. At least we must call him something.

While I would have preferred you use references to support your points anytime you write, I am not going to dive into it because it is not that relevant in this discussion. It will only lead to unnecessary debate. And it will hand them over the chance to sneak away and do it the way they usually do it - argue and close it. The focus here is connecting or disconnecting the dots of Trinity. A point I have made known to Iyambz is that Johnenine Comma is real. He keeps mentioning KJV everytime. Can you see he is silent presently? The verse he is always using has been expunged by many other versions when evidences are too many which cannot be denied. But many still use it unknowingly. Then, the lady accused me of asking her to shred KJV. If I allowed them to go on, they will start shouting and yelling, and the focus will be lost. Irrelevancies they will all bring in.

BUT we know one thing: We are referring to one person: The Father. The issue of Jesus and the Holy Spirit sharing the same name is what they cannot prove or disprove. This is my point. But when they make references from the Bible, they keep using the ones that talk about them without connecting them. The only verse which connects them as God and specifically say they are one is Johnenine Comma

Moving further, let us look at the root word DappaD is using. I know why I allowed him talk and I refused to not start pushing my own thoughts because I don't want it turn to a debate. I have not done that and he yelled at me. Not to talk about when I start pulling out evidences. I just want him to box himself to a corner he cannot escape from. And it seems he is hooked already just like how Iyambz is hooked. Even with the existence of hell. He has boxed himself to the corner, and it is why he cannot see the new questions but regarded them as repetitions. Let us look at the root words and take note of the dot(s) above and below it. They are variants from the same base:

Genesis 2:4 - יְהוָה‎ - Yǝhwāh - first occurence in the Bible יְהֹוָ֨ה יֱהֹוִ֡ה יֱהֹוִ֡ה

Genesis 3:14 - יְהֹוָה‎ - Yǝhōwāh - vowels from Adonai יְהוָ֥ה יְהֹוָ֨ה יֱהֹוִ֡ה יֱהֹוִ֡ה

Judges 16:28 - יֱהֹוִה‎ - Yĕhōwih - preceded Adonai, and received from Elohim יֱהֹוִ֡ה יְהֹוָ֨ה יְהוָ֥ה

Genesis 15:2 - יֱהוִה‎ - Yĕhwih -

1 Kings 2:26 - יְהֹוִה‎ - Yǝhōwih

Ezekiel 24:24 - יְהוִה‎ - Yǝhwih

And so "on and on" we can continue. My point is that those who used other names as synonyms have their reasons also. Whether you accept them or not is not the subject of this discussion. We all know the personality we are talking about is God, the Father. So, why dont we just say Yahweh and let's move on. So connect or disconnect Him from the other two. Pro Trinity guys have stepped aside, and we are still waiting for the guy against it to finish the job. Make we dey see na. I will not be the person to help anyone to finish it; otherwise, it will turn to a useless debate they always make it. You can see an evidence up there where I was accused wrongly of nonsensical whatever when I have been non partial from the start.

Also, i have so far refused to attack either of the denominations involved here. The subjects at hand are what I am focused on.

Therefore, let us leave Telegrammation on one side. It is not the focus here. Let them connect or disconnect the dots. Period.

Nobody is disputing that anyone are using other names as synonyms have their reasons also, but the valid point here is the fact that is not being acknowledged that whatever the variants maybe, Genesis 2:4, Genesis 3:14, Judges 16:28, Genesis 15:2, 1 Kings 2:26, Ezekiel 24:24 etc, none of them are God's real name.

Without necessarily trying to, start pulling out evidences and not just yet wanting you, to box yourself to a corner, you cannot escape from, if I go ahead to ask you a few some questions, can I trust you to be honest, truthful and forthcoming in your replies?

1. What is PeaceLoveJoy?
2. Is PeaceLoveJoy your real name?
3. Why and what is the idea of choosing PeaceLoveJoy?
4. Your roll called variants in Genesis 2:4, Genesis 3:14, Judges 16:28, Genesis 15:2, 1 Kings 2:26 and Ezekiel 24:24, what does word intrinsically mean?
5. Who and what are you PeaceLoveJoy? Give your reply, starting the sentence with: I am ...
6. What is your real name? The reply to that can be the answer to, what is your first or last name maybe?

Depending, I might and will ask more questions upon getting your replies

MaxInDHouse:
[s]The KJV did some work that can't be rubbished outrightly, YAHWEH is much closer in meaning to the four Hebrew consonants YHWH that represents the divine name. But if we are to put it right then we have to go through all other names like Jacob, Joshua, Jeremiah, Jerusalem, John and even Jesus! None of those names are correct in pronunciation if we're to stick to the original Hebrew texts. It's not reasonable to leave God's name in the original Hebrew text then use the translitration for the name of God's son. [/s]

This is not the basis of the discussion here. You may be right or wrong. This I am not contesting, and I am not discussing it. You want to argue along this line which is not the focus here. Again, I'm not discussing the translation of the name of God to English. Leave it. Please, let this slide. Thanks!

If you're now saying YAHWEH is your choice of pronunciation then "Jesus" is a wrong rendering for the name of God's son!

You are trying to say something here logically, I want to get this right. Could you kindly elaborate on this logic? This I am interested in and how you want to use your question to explain that God is connected to Jesus and the Holy Spirit in regards to Trinity, or not connected. The dots is what we want to connect or disconnect, and not to discuss the real translation of the name of God or whatever. Please, explain this logic better how you want to use it to prove that there is Trinity or not.

BassReeves:
[s]Nobody is disputing that anyone are using other names as synonyms have their reasons also, but the valid point here is the fact that is not being acknowledged that whatever the variants maybe, Genesis 2:4, Genesis 3:14, Judges 16:28, Genesis 15:2, 1 Kings 2:26, Ezekiel 24:24 etc, none of them are God's real name.

Without necessarily trying to, start pulling out evidences and not just yet wanting you, to box yourself to a corne,r you cannot escape from, if I go ahead to ask you a few some questions, can I trust you to be honest, truthful and forthcoming in your replies?

1. What is PeaceLoveJoy?
2. Is PeaceLoveJoy your real name?
3. Why and what is the idea of choosing PeaceLoveJoy?
4. Your roll called variants in Genesis 2:4, Genesis 3:14, Judges 16:28, Genesis 15:2, 1 Kings 2:26 and Ezekiel 24:24, what does word intrinsically mean?
5. Who and what are you PeaceLoveJoy? Give your reply, starting the sentence with: I am ...
6. What is your real name? The reply to that can be the answer to, what is your first or last name maybe?

Depending, I might and will ask more questions upon getting your replies [/s]

The subject of discussion here is not the translation of the name of God. The subject of discussion does not correlate with using the real name of PeaceLoveJoy. The real name of God is not the subject here. Leave it and drop it finally. You can open another thread for this if you are interested. The task here is: to connect or disconnect God to Jesus and Holy Spirit in regards to Trinity. And there is no way you can do it without using the two testaments - old and new. You just want to discuss and argue the name and translation of God which is totally unrelated to the subject here. What debaters do when discussing Trinity is to always shift the debate to irrelevant substances. Bros, drop it.

If you cannot connect God the father, Jesus and Holy Spirit in regards to Trinity, or you cannot disconnect them successfully, then leave it. Open another thread and argue out the translation of the real name of God.

Thanks!

I'm not a Trinitarian so i don't have anything to say about TRINITY, what i pointed out is the name of God YAHWEH should be rendered as JEHOVAH if Yeoshua is rendered as JESUS.

Yahweh is the father of Yeoshua (Jehovah is the father of Jesus)

That's my point!

PeaceLoveJoy:
This is not the basis of the discussion here. You may be right or wrong. This I am not contesting, and I am not discussing it. You want to argue along this line which is not the focus here. Again, I'm not discussing the translation of the name of God to English. Leave it. Please, let this slide. Thanks!


You are trying to say something here logically, I want to get this right. Could you kindly elaborate on this logic? This I am interested in and how you want to use your question to explain that God is connected to Jesus and the Holy Spirit in regards to Trinity, or not connected. The dots is what we want to connect or disconnect, and not to discuss the real translation of the name of God or whatever. Please, explain this logic better how you want to use it to prove that there is Trinity or not.

MaxInDHouse:
I'm not a Trinitarian so i don't have anything to say about TRINITY, what i pointed out is the name of God YAHWEH should be rendered as JEHOVAH if Yeoshua is rendered as JESUS.

Yahweh is the father of Yeoshua (Jehovah is the father of Jesus)

That's my point!

Your point is NOTED. Thanks and God bless. If you are interested in moving your points further, I advise you also to open a new thread. The focus here is Trinity. You may want to re read this thread again and you will see another topic is: the existence of hell. Read through before bringing out your argument. I am focused here. You would have successfully diverted the focus of the thread to another topic and that is how hell will be loosed here, and all will be meaningless at the end of the day on this thread.

Please, anyone who wants to make comment(s) should kindly read the discussion above very well and bring out evidences and proofs relating to our discussion. I bet it if I will get any futher strong point(s). The two sides have decided to be silent. So, what are we saying? Who knows? Someone may help us help here. Who? Please!

PeaceLoveJoy:
The subject of discussion here is not the translation of the name of God. The subject of discussion does not correlate with using the real name of PeaceLoveJoy. The real name of God is not the subject here. Leave it and drop it finally. You can open another thread for this if you are interested. The task here is: to connect or disconnect God to Jesus and Holy Spirit in regards to Trinity. And there is no way you can do it without using the two testaments - old and new. You just want to discuss and argue the name and translation of God which is totally unrelated to the subject here. What debaters do when discussing Trinity is to always shift the debate to irrelevant substances. Bros, drop it.

If you cannot connect God the father, Jesus and Holy Spirit in regards to Trinity, or you cannot disconnect them successfully, then leave it. Open another thread and argue out the translation of the real name of God.

Thanks!

You're funny character. You made a clearly erroneous statement in your post, parading Yahweh, to be real name of God
when this is clearly not. In order for you, to see error of your ways in wrongly appropriating YHWH, verbalised as Yahweh, to be real name of God, the question of what is your real name had to be asked. It is by answering that question that the opportunity of a significant realization of the error of your assumption.

When you know what the meaning of the four-lettered alphabets, YHWH, otherwise known as the Tetragrammaton, means, then its a no brainer for God, to be, God the Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit, in regards to the very least, Trinity. You just understand how possible this is, why it is necessary etc.

You see PeaceLoveJoy, when not knowing the basics and something fundamental, like, knowing that YHWH, verbalised as Yahweh, is not God's real name, just as PeaceLoveJoy, isnt your real name, then you will have issues with understanding why the trinity and how the trinity.

Knowing what YHWH, verbalised as Yahweh, means, is in itself, just enough to understand Trinity, without needing to bring in what God's real name is.

PeaceLoveJoy, what did God say He wants to use YHWH, verbalised as Yahweh, for, to represent and serve as? I am certain you will dodge this question, being that it is a hard question to answer, just like the earlier above questions, I asked you that you found difficult to answer and dodged each and all of.

BassReeves:
You're funny character. You made a clearly erroneous statement in your post, parading Yahweh, to be real name of God
when this is clearly not. In order for you, to see error of your ways in wrongly appropriating YHWH, verbalised as Yahweh, to be real name of God, the question of what is your real name had to be asked. It is by answering that question that the opportunity of a significant realization of the error of your assumption.

When you know what the meaning of the four-lettered alphabets, YHWH, otherwise known as the Tetragrammaton, means, then its a no brainer for God, to be, God the Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit, in regards to the very least, Trinity.

You see PeaceLoveJoy, when not knowing the basic and something fundamental like, knowing that YHWH, verbalised as Yahweh, is not God's real name, just as PeaceLoveJoy, isnt your real name, then you will have issues with understanding why the trinity and how the trinity.

Knowing what YHWH, verbalised as Yahweh, means, is in itself, just enough to understand Trinity, without needing to bring in what God's real name is.

What did God say He wants to use YHWH, verbalised as Yahweh, for, to represent and serve as? I am certain you will dodge this question, being that it is a hard question to answer, just like the earlier above questions, I asked you that you found difficult to answer.

If this is the basis of your argument, then connect it to prove the unity or dis-unity of Trinity. Show how this is related to Trinity. Show us how God the father, the son, and the holy Spirit are ONE and Trinity with your position. Or show how Trinity is fake. Go on sir, the floor is yours.

Thanks!

In that case i tender an apology, my only interest is to buttress the point my brother DappaD made on the importance of our God's name.

Please you can continue with your friends, JWs have what interests us in threads and since we don't see that here i suppose it's OK if we take our leave.

Thanks!

PeaceLoveJoy:
Your point is NOTED. Thanks and God bless. If you are interested in moving your points further, I advise you also to open a new thread. The focus here is Trinity. You may want to re read this thread again and you will see another topic is: the existence of hell. Read through before bringing out your argument. I am focused here. You would have successfully diverted the focus of the thread to another topic and that is how hell will be loosed here, and all will be meaningless at the end of the day on this thread.

Please, anyone who wants to make comment(s) should kindly read the discussion above very well and bring out evidences and proofs relating to our discussion. I bet it if I will get any futher strong point(s). The two sides have decided to be silent. So, what are we saying? Who knows? Someone may help us help here. Who? Please!

PeaceLoveJoy:
If this is the basis of your argument, then connect it to prove the unity or dis-unity of Trinity. Show how this is related to Trinity. Show us how God the father, the son, and the holy Spirit are ONE and Trinity with your position. Or show how Trinity is fake. Go on sir, the floor is yours.

Thanks!

Do you at all know what argument is? It is about trading in ignorance. This is exactly what you are doing here. You are looking to exchange your ignorances in theology. You are standing on a faulty foundation and if the foundation be destroyed what can the righteous do. Your arguments, will fade in the face of facts.

It would interest you to know that I am not a trinitarian, though I understand trinity. My understanding of trinity comes from knowing what the four-lettered alphabets, YHWH, otherwise known as the Tetragrammaton, means. Also comes from knowing what God told Moses, what He wants to use YHWH, verbalised as Yahweh, for, to represent and serve as.

Now you want me to show you, how God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are ONE and Trinity with your position, but you are not ready to give your answers to questions I ask you. Cant you see that, I already was set out, on showing from each and every one of my questions how God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are ONE and Trinity. You answering them questions would have eventually crystal clear led to revealing how God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are ONE and Trinity.

I guess its the unbearable arrogance inside you and you taking pride in your own ignorance, that made you turn your nose up at the questions and push them away unanswered.

The field is yours, the ball is in your court. I certainly havent said trinity is fake, rather I was taking you on about your position on what the real name of God is.

BassReeves, what do you mean by nobody knows the name of God according to the Bible? I don’t think you expunged Exodus 3:15, Psalm 83:18, Isaiah 42:8, 54:5 out from your Bible though?

BassReeves & PeaceLoveJoy, yes if you choose to use God’s name as Yahweh that’s okay and fine, but why not also use Jesus’ name in the proper Hebrew which is Yehoshua? Jesus[Joshua] is just the Latinized form of Iesous[Greek] and Yeshua or Yehoshua[Hebrew]


BassReeves claims that there is no J in the Hebrew tongue, that is true, but how then did the following Biblical names come about? Jehoshaphat, John, James, Josiah, Jeremiah, Jonathan, Jehu, Jehoachin, Jonadab? These are just the Latinized forms of the Greek equivalent of those names so if you want me to take you seriously, please start using all those names in their original Hebrew.

PeaceLoveJoy, as for the Aramaic rendering of the Tetragrammaton, it’s not stated in the Bible because only small portions of Ezra, Daniel and one verse from Jeremiah used the original Aramaic and the word ‘YHWH’ wasn’t rendered in any but Aramaic is like the sister language of Hebrew so the rendering would have turned out quite the same.

Ἰαω or Ἰαουέ or Iao/Iaho/Jaho/Jahve is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew יהוה‎ or Yhwh/Jhvh and this appeared in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures.

Where I find BassReeves funny is where he claims nobody knows how God’s name is supposed to be pronounced et cetera et cetera. Please who REALLY knows how the other names in the Old Testament are supposed to be pronounced since the proper names of men in Hebrew actually contained no vowels? It was the Greek rendering that really shed light to how those names in Hebrew should be pronounced otherwise we’d be left at a standstill.

MaxInDHouse:
In that case i tender an apology, my only interest is to buttress the point my brother DappaD made on the importance of our God's name.
Please you can continue with your friends, JWs have what interests us in threads and since we don't see that here i suppose it's OK if we take our leave.
Thanks!

Unfortunately for them, their double-standard approach doesn’t apply here so if they’re to be taken seriously, then they must write and pronounce all those Hebrew names in their original form since vowels do not exist in those Hebrew names.

MaxInDHouse:
In that case i tender an apology, my only interest is to buttress the point my brother DappaD made on the importance of our God's name.

Please you can continue with your friends, JWs have what interests us in threads and since we don't see that here i suppose it's OK if we take our leave.

Thanks!

The importance of His name should be used to disprove Trinity if it is so important to you. This is your job. If you cannot do it, I accept your permission to leave. This is what a Christian should do. It shows your level of revelation or faith. And I am not fighting you. I allow you to believe what you want to believe without attacking you or your denomination. You and your fellow DappaD should learn this too. Do not choke your faith or truth down the throats of others.

I do not have enemies. Everyone is my friend. The onus is on you to disprove it successfully. And pro Trinity should support it successfully. I am saying both parties cannot successfully defend their positions. So, may the good LORD bless you for not getting angry after you have been unable to convince us successfully.

Let me you the words of Jesus as my final words to you: Be it unto you according to the level of your faith. AMEN!

PeaceLoveJoy:
The importance of His name should be used to disprove Trinity if it is so important to you. This is your job. If you cannot do it, I accept your permission to leave. This is what a Christian should do. It shows your level of revelation or faith. And I am not fighting you. I allow you to believe what you want to believe without attacking you or your denomination. You and your fellow DappaD should learn this too. Do not choke your faith or truth down the throats of others.
I do not have enemies. Everyone is my friend. The onus is on you to disprove it successfully. And pro Trinity should support it successfully. I am saying both parties cannot successfully defend their positions. So, may the good LORD bless you for not getting angry after you have been unable to convince us successfully.
Let me you the words of Jesus as my final words to you: Be it unto you according to the level of your faith. AMEN!

As for the highlighted, that’s a different thing altogether because we’ve only been talking about the etymology of God’s name.

According to God's word a Christian should mind how he spends his time and on what he's using his time! Ephesians 5:15-17

TRINITY doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible so it's worthless, hopeless, useless and wastage of my precious time debating it!

PeaceLoveJoy:
The importance of His name should be used to disprove Trinity if it is so important to you. This is your job. If you cannot do it, I accept your permission to leave. This is what a Christian should do. It shows your level of revelation or faith. And I am not fighting you. I allow you to believe what you want to believe without attacking you or your denomination. You and your fellow DappaD should learn this too. Do not choke your faith or truth down the throats of others.

I do not have enemies. Everyone is my friend. The onus is on you to disprove it successfully. And pro Trinity should support it successfully. I am saying both parties cannot successfully defend their positions. So, may the good LORD bless you for not getting angry after you have been unable to convince us successfully.

Let me you the words of Jesus as my final words to you: Be it unto you according to the level of your faith. AMEN!

DappaD:
BassReeves, what do you mean by nobody knows the name of God according to the Bible? I don’t think you expunged Exodus 3:15, Psalm 83:18, Isaiah 42:8, 54:5 out from your Bible though?

DappaD, I am sure you clearly read that I was asking about God's real name and not just an ordinary placeholders, same way, I asked about your real name and not your DappaD representation or tribute name.

DappaD:
BassReeves & PeaceLoveJoy, yes if you choose to use God’s name as Yahweh that’s okay and fine, but why not also use Jesus’ name in the proper Hebrew which is Yehoshua? Jesus[Joshua] is just the Latinized form of Iesous[Greek] and Yeshua or Yehoshua[Hebrew]

IESVS, is Latinized Jesus[Joshua] [Hebrew], Iesous[Greek] and Yeshua or Yehoshua[Hebrew]

God called and described Himself to Moses as Yahweh, but, when talking of Jehovah, this is an artificial Latinized contraption hybrid formed from combining the Latin letters JHVH with the vowels of Adonai. I don't have a problem with you using Jehovah, just as I don't with Jesus, so far when the chips are down, we both are clear, convinced and know that they really aren't real names

DappaD:
BassReeves claims that there is no J in the Hebrew tongue, that is true, but how then did the following Biblical names come about? Jehoshaphat, John, James, Josiah, Jeremiah, Jonathan, Jehu, Jehoachin, Jonadab? These are just the Latinized forms of the Greek equivalent of those names so if you want me to take you seriously, please start using all those names in their original Hebrew.

I use Hebrew original names as much as I am able, but when dealing with someone like you, I deliberately switch to what I know you are used to. The word Jehovah, is not a straight up transliteration, because a correct transliteration would have being IHVH and not the portmanteau JHVH, that with Adonai, Jehovah, was came up with.

DappaD:
PeaceLoveJoy, as for the Aramaic rendering of the Tetragrammaton, it’s not stated in the Bible because only small portions of Ezra, Daniel and one verse from Jeremiah used the original Aramaic and the word ‘YHWH’ wasn’t rendered in any but Aramaic is like the sister language of Hebrew so the rendering would have turned out quite the same.

Ἰαω or Ἰαουέ or Iao/Iaho/Jaho/Jahve is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew יהוה‎ or Yhwh/Jhvh and this appeared in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures.

Let's put this all into context, what does the Tetragrammaton mean?

DappaD:
Where I find BassReeves funny is where he claims nobody knows how God’s name is supposed to be pronounced et cetera et cetera. Please who REALLY knows how the other names in the Old Testament are supposed to be pronounced since the proper names of men in Hebrew actually contained no vowels? It was the Greek rendering that really shed light to how those names in Hebrew should be pronounced otherwise we’d be left at a standstill.

DappaD, I find you funnier than you find me because you take refuge in Greek to understand an already self-explanatory Hebrew word

If you are a good bible student, you would have known that the Bible states that God's real name is not revealed because it is too wonderful for anyone to understand. What you all call God's real name, according to the bible is nothing other than a representation or tribute name, no different to what DappaD, PeaceLoveJoy or BassReeves are. They all aren't our real names

BassReeves:
Do you at all know what argument is? It is about trading in ignorance. This is exactly what you are doing here. [b]You are looking to exchange your ignorances in theology. [/b]You are standing on a faulty foundation and if the foundation be destroyed what can the righteous do. Your arguments, will fade in the face of facts.

Hmmm!
I will pardon you for your choice of words here, next time, you will get the level of dose you deserve. Anyway, you are the one saying I stand on a faulty foundation without proving it yet. Lol. So, you will need to first show you are on the solid foundation before accusing someone else. Let's get to the real part.

It would interest you to know that I am not a trinitarian, though I understand trinity. [b]My understanding of trinity comes from knowing what the four-lettered alphabets, YHWH, otherwise known as the Tetragrammaton, means. Also comes from knowing what God told Moses, what He wants to use YHWH, verbalised as Yahweh, for, to represent and serve as. [b]

You have three tasks here:
1. To show explicitly and convincingly that YHWH is where Trinity comes from. You will show this with solid evidences. You will make references here to back this up. We do not just want to hear your conclusion or believe, but you will prove this.
2. You will mention what God told Moses, and then, explain what he wants to use YHWH (Yahweh) for, to represent, and to serve as.
3. First look at the underlined sentence; further, look at the two statements above, then after, you will use them to disprove Trinity since you are not a trinitarian. And if otherwise, you will state your position. The basis here is to connect what you believe to approve or disapprove Trinity.

Now you want me to show you, how God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are ONE and Trinity with your position, but you are not ready to give your answers to questions I ask you. Cant you see that, I already was set out, on showing from each and every one of my questions how God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are ONE and Trinity. You answering them questions would have eventually crystal clear led to revealing how God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are ONE and Trinity.

These were your questions:

BassReeves:
1. What is PeaceLoveJoy?
2. Is PeaceLoveJoy your real name?
3. Why and what is the idea of choosing PeaceLoveJoy?
4. Your roll called variants in Genesis 2:4, Genesis 3:14, Judges 16:28, Genesis 15:2, 1 Kings 2:26 and Ezekiel 24:24, what does word intrinsically mean?
5. Who and what are you PeaceLoveJoy? Give your reply, starting the sentence with: I am ...
6. What is your real name? The reply to that can be the answer to, what is your first or last name maybe?

1. What is PeaceLoveJoy?
A moniker[/b]

2. Is PeaceLoveJoy your real name?
[i]A moniker is not the real name of a person. This is 2021 and not olden days. The platform we have now is different and related in anyway to olden days. Everyone who uses forums like this knows what a moniker is, and knows it is not the real name of person behind it in many occassions. However, there are monikers which are real names, one can guess it is the real name of some. So, it depends.

3. Why and what is the idea of choosing PeaceLoveJoy?
The idea of choosing it is cos it is a moniker, and I am allowed to choose anything. It is vague and does not have any substantial meaning to it. This is the truth and a general truth everyone knows about. I just add together Peace, Love and Joy. It is as simple as ABC

4. Your roll called variants in Genesis 2:4, Genesis 3:14, Judges 16:28, Genesis 15:2, 1 Kings 2:26 and Ezekiel 24:24, what does word intrinsically mean?

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
Genesis 2:4 KJV
God made heaven and the earth. So? What is the connection here with Trinity?

And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Genesis 3:14 KJV
What has serpent, though art cursed and dust have to do with our discussion? Hellooooo! Excuse me!!!!


And when the people saw him, they praised their god: for they said, Our god hath delivered into our hands our enemy, and the destroyer of our country, which slew many of us.
Judges 16:24
You are beginning to irritate me more. What the he.ck is they praise their god, your god delievers your whatever into your enemy both have to do with the subject at hand? Are you OK?

I refuse to post the rest of your references here further because they are totally not relevant to the subject of discussion. You need to connect them first and make them relevant to what you are trying to drive home. You are a terrible teacher. What the hec..k are you trying to do? So, if you want to introduce a new dimension to your points, are you not suppose to introduce them first? This was the reason I refused to answer your questions. Very stupid way to introduce whatever you want to introduce. Very irritating and irrational. Just a way to distract. If you try this in a patent defence, court room, or theological argument, you will be thrown out right with this useless intro. What the heck are these unrelated questions? So, connect these questions with the subject Trinity. Please do.

Note: You will have to take the pain to state clearly one by one these verses you painfully made me go through and explain the relevance to Trinity. You will and you must.

Now to the underlined word: intrinsically
Meaning: in an essential or natural way.
Proof: Type the phrase: intrinsically meaning, and goggle dictionary will pop up.

Or you click on: https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/intrinsically

​in a way that belongs to or is part of the real nature of somebody/something
intrinsically good/evil
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with the idea (= it is good in itself but there may be outside circumstances which mean it is not suitable).
Salary increase is intrinsically linked to performance

Oga, please, relate this to the topic. Make sure you do.



5. Who and what are you PeaceLoveJoy? Give your reply, starting the sentence with: I am ...
Who is PeaceLoveJoy? - A person who uses the moniker who writes on nairaland.

What is PeacLoveJoy? - A moniker

6. What is your real name? The reply to that can be the answer to, what is your first or last name maybe?
[i]Are​ you OK? Are you a scammer? Are you saying you do not know it is against the rule of platforms to release vital info? Why are you asking me? If you choose to release yours, it is your own cup of tea. Come on. What have these got to do with Trinity? I am curious to know.

I guess its the unbearable arrogance inside you and you taking pride in your own ignorance, that made you turn your nose up at the questions and push them away unanswered.

The field is yours, the ball is in your court. I certainly havent said trinity is fake, rather I was taking you on about your position on what the real name of God is.

You said above you are not a trinitarian, and now the underlined word says you aren't saying it is fake. See, I came out boldly to say the two sides cannot successfully argue their points. I made my position known. You are not yet going to the point here.

Please, again, the subject of discussion is Trinity. I am not going to answer any of your unrelated questions which are to distract us from the subject at hand. What has my real name and the Trinity have together in common? What has intrinsically got to do here. I have decided to answer you for the last time because you came here to purposely divert the subject of this issue. What have such unrelated questions got to do with Trinity? Dont you know how to move your argument to the expected end? Gush!

Please, oga, get the crap out of my way. Not ready to even read any bull crap from you outside relating the above. Do not jump into another useless argument if you do not address the craps you wrote above. I took the pain to check references and Bible verses to see if there are senses in what he is trying to say. No sense yet. So, bring out the sense you are trying to make, and stop asking useless and unrelated questions.

See, the only sense you have to make is to connect all the bull craps you wrote and all unrelated questions, and then relate them all to Trinity, and then state clearly what your position is. Anything outside that, you are on your own. Will not reply you again.

Back to your solid foundation. Are these the craps you call solid foundation? Are you alright? Yeah! This is indeed trading ignorance. Christ!!!

God bless!

DappaD:
BassReeves, what do you mean by nobody knows the name of God according to the Bible? I don’t think you expunged Exodus 3:15, Psalm 83:18, Isaiah 42:8, 54:5 out from your Bible though?

BassReeves & PeaceLoveJoy, yes if you choose to use God’s name as Yahweh that’s okay and fine, but why not also use Jesus’ name in the proper Hebrew which is Yehoshua? Jesus[Joshua] is just the Latinized form of Iesous[Greek] and Yeshua or Yehoshua[Hebrew]

Honestly, you know where I am going. It is to lay out all the personalities out in the real, original names we were given. And then we will look at them and discuss. You are getting it. Since I am in the middle, the onus is on you to bring all the names out. I flow with you as the spirit or knowledge leads. You use KJV, I knocked it out. Then, you moved to origin names, and we are in the process. You will bring them out as you brought the subject up. I will not be the one to bring them out for you. You will disprove it exactly the way you proposed. It may take long but since you want to go down the lane, I am ready for you sir. But wait! Before you start, read on because you wrote stuff below.

BassReeves claims that there is no J in the Hebrew tongue, that is true, but how then did the following Biblical names come about? Jehoshaphat, John, James, Josiah, Jeremiah, Jonathan, Jehu, Jehoachin, Jonadab? These are just the Latinized forms of the Greek equivalent of those names so if you want me to take you seriously, please start using all those names in their original Hebrew.

PeaceLoveJoy, as for the Aramaic rendering of the Tetragrammaton, it’s not stated in the Bible because only small portions of Ezra, Daniel and one verse from Jeremiah used the original Aramaic and the word ‘YHWH’ wasn’t rendered in any but Aramaic is like the sister language of Hebrew so the rendering would have turned out quite the same.

Ἰαω or Ἰαουέ or Iao/Iaho/Jaho/Jahve is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew יהוה‎ or Yhwh/Jhvh and this appeared in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures.

Bro, I so much like you. Hahaha. Looks to me you are trying to say here you do not have 100% evidence to back up your claims. Or am I wrong? You want to really prove this, looks to me you will go deep into phonetics and ancient languages. And then, the people who know about these things have written so much about them. We just need to search. And it looks to me you have brought out a valid point why English versions of Bible have different words, and there are synonyms. Come on bro! You will need to really go back and really research deeper. Sir, you are on a journey that I called "unending journey of knowledge"

Where I find BassReeves funny is where he claims nobody knows how God’s name is supposed to be pronounced et cetera et cetera. Please who REALLY knows how the other names in the Old Testament are supposed to be pronounced since the proper names of men in Hebrew actually contained no vowels? It was the Greek rendering that really shed light to how those names in Hebrew should be pronounced otherwise we’d be left at a standstill.

Ignore the clown, and focus on your own above. Now bro, do you agree with me you may need to spend some more hours behind your doors locked to dig deeper? Let me know your position.

Please take note, I am not saying your position is totally wrong. You know I spoke out clean and clearly that Johnenine comma is real. Bro, that is the knockout for Pro Trinity. Cos which verse in the Bible are they going to use again to fully back it up? I don't know. Honestly I do not. Can you see that they are silent? But how did I do it, I elaborated and emphasized more strongly on it. I am sure most of them have gone through it and they realise they must study it. They are already digging deeper. And that is the beginning of knowledge. But while studying very deep, there are evidences to their claims. Why Catholic added the phrase in Johnenine Comma may not be totally wrong, but it is wrong to not put a footnote there. This is my point. But it cannot be 100% proved accurately too.

Bro, bro, bro! You really tried. I give it to you. But see, look deeply into my response to your post. Do not rush. Just look at it deeper.

I pray you do not cross the line and turn to be an atheist cos it is a dangerous line you are about to launch into. A very dangerous path. This is why I refused to lead the discussion and make any new revelation because I know atheists are ready to flood this thread at any opportunity they see. Lol. I came in fast when Tetragrammaton was mentioned. Just look at how I put forward variants of the same original Hebrew word and where Adonai, Elohi, and some other came into the picture. It is deep sir. You may disprove them, but before you do, search first. This is my point.