₦airaland Forum

Image123:
Personal experience.

What exactly is the personal experience

GaelllicII:
You've been completely trounced in this debate.

You've had no response worth anything.

You've lied about me digressing and deflecting.

You've fled from providing counter-narratives by simply calling cogent arguments 'stories'.

You've dodged and avoided virtually every single pointed question asked of you.

It's no surprise you seem have chosen your favourite tactic as the way to escape.

You will therefore be blocked by me since you have no scriptural evidence to prove that Peter had a special recognizable hierarchy that was recognized by the early church.

GaelllicII:
"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan desired to have all of you (plural), that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you (singular) that your (singular) faith fail not. And when you (singular) have turned again, strengthen your brothers."

Luke 22: 31-32

It's right there.

Are you going to deny it?
Are you honestly going to claim that Jesus Christ does not confer a special position on St. Peter in that verse?

Can you lie so obviously, and yet so pertinaciously?

If you can, you have no respect for Jesus Christ at all.

if what you are twisting in the above verse is true, How come Peter's special position is not recognized in Ephesians 2:20, Galatians 2:9, Ephesians 5:23 and 1 Corinthians 3:10, 11?

Ephesians 2:20
King James Bible
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Galatians 2:9.
King James Bible
And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Ephesians 5:23.
King James Bible
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

1 Corinthians 3:10, 11.
King James version
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Your failure to brings a verse that shows Peter's special title as "primary foundation stone" upon which the church is built in your next reply, would earn you a BLOCK.

ocnovakmichael:
There is no contradiction here. Go back and reread the thread again.

We have already established that the light in Gen 1:3 is the presence of God: because God is light. This is the very light that lighted every man that cometh into the world.

Below are your two statements in bold.

"God only made the sun and the moon in Genesis 1:5 because darkness is already upon the deep."

"The Bible (Gen 1:14-19): Sun and Moon created to govern day/night and sustain life on earth.
Parallel: Before this, embryo is self-contained. After this, its life is governed by external sources."

Did God create the moon and sun on Day 1 in Genesis 1:5 or on Day 4 in Genesis 1:14-19?

GaelllicII:
And then I asked you answer the above question with honesty.
And then you melted into a puddle of prevarication.

Will you continue prevaricating?
Or will you for once answer a simple question like an honest man?

You are the one beating around the bush. Can you kindly show us in Luke where Jesus reffered to Peter as primary foundation stone?

GaelllicII:
So stop beating around the bush and face straightforward questions with honesty.

Are you telling me that from Luke 22: 31-32 you can see no evidence of Peter having a special position - indeed a primary position - among the Apostles?

Answer the question, please.

Oga where is the "Primary foundation stone" written in the verse above that you quoted. Kindly show us.

GaelllicII:
I actually thought I was getting somewhere with you.

This is the question from you which I correctly and clearly answered.

(Contd.)

You falsely answered the question. You answered and made a claim that the apostles and prophets were called were not called "Peter" or "Cephas" because they were not "primary foundation stones".

Can you kindly show us a scripture where Peter was called a "primary foundation stone" and where the apostles and prohets were reffered to "secondary foundation stones"?

ocnovakmichael:
God only made the sun and the moon in Genesis 1:5 because darkness is already upon the deep.

Where does Genesis 1:5 mention sun and moon?

Below in bold is your statement in this thread:

"The Bible (Gen 1:14-19): Sun and Moon created to govern day/night and sustain life on earth.
Parallel: Before this, embryo is self-contained. After this, its life is governed by external sources."

So why are you contradicting yourself when you clearly said above that it is in Genesis 1:14-19 which is Day 4 that Sun and moon were created?

GaelllicII:
In engineering, a foundation is the element of a structure that connects it to the ground, or more rarely water...

Foundations provide the structure's stability from the ground:...

To anchor the structure against natural forces including earthquakes, floods, droughts, frost heaves, tornadoes and wind.
- Wikipedia, Foundation (Engineering)


A cornerstone (or foundation stone or setting stone) is the first stone set in the construction of a masonry foundation. All other stones will be set in reference to this stone, thus determining the position of the entire structure
- Wikipedia, 'Cornerstone'

(i) The foundation is the lowest structural element that connects the edifice to the ground.
(ii) The cornerstone is the first stone (not the only stone) within the structure of the foundation.
(iii)The cornerstone is the reference point for all subsequent stones.

The relationship ought to be very clear.

The Apostles and prophets are 'all together' the foundation (stones)of God's house.
But there is a first stone that provides reference for all the rest.
That first stone is the rock.

Specific answer to your question:

The Apostles and prophets are not called 'Peter' or 'Cephas' because they are foundation stones but not the first (or primary) one.

Peter is.

This is clearly what is being represented in the verse below.

"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan desired to have all of you (plural), that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you (singular) that your (singular) faith fail not. And when you (singular) have turned again, strengthen your brothers."

Luke 22: 31-32

Peter is clearly the reference point.

Oga there is no where in Luke 22:31-32 where Peter was called a primary foundation stone. You are adding to scriptures. Ephesians 2:20 is clear that the the apostles and prophets are the foundation while Jesus is the chief cornerstone. There is no mention of a special stone for Peter. Kindly show me in the scriptures where Peter is called "primary foundation stone".

ocnovakmichael:
No Gen 1:3 is not that, the forming of light is Gen 1:5

So where did the light and darkness in Genesis 1:5 come from?

ocnovakmichael:
Like I earlier stated, the light in Genesis 1:3 is not the sun, and there was no mentioning of day and night in that verse. That informs us that that light is the presence of God: the signature of his craftsmanship, being Himself because God is light.
As per the light and darkness in Genesis 1:5, God declared in the book of Isaiah: "I'm the LORD... I form the light and I permitted darkness..." This is connotes the light and darkness, which are day and night.

So when God said let there be light in Genesis 1:3, he formed light and darkness?

ocnovakmichael:
I need underscore here that every creator, inventor or colonialist has one thing in common, and that is: they leave a footprint of their craftsmanship or presence on what they have created or colonised.
For instance, when the USA went to the moon, the first thing they did was to plant their flag on the moon. Also, when Britain colonised our nation, the first thing they did was plant the Union Jack on Nigerian soil.

Similarly, when God dicided to create the universe, the first thing He did was to plant his presence. The word, "Let there be light" connotes God's presence in His creation. 1 John 1:5 and Psalm 27:1 says "God is light." And this is the same light in Genesis 1:3

So, the word, "let there be light" is God planting His footprint on his creation.

Ok.....so how come that in Genesis 1:5, we still have darkness that is called Night?

Genesis 1:5.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day

GaelllicII:
You are the one who appears twisted (crooked).

You, till this very moment are still avoiding the question:

Why did Jesus change Simon's name at all.
Why this unique act among the Apostles?
For no reason?
For fun and games?

Or was it for the same reason that Abram's name was changed to Abraham?

To signify that he was to be father of (the New) Israel.

"Give ear to me, you that follow that which is just, and you that seek the Lord: look unto the rock whence you are hewn, and to the hole of the pit from which you are dug out. Look unto Abraham your father, and to Sara that bore you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and multiplied him."

Isaias (Isaiah) 51:1-2

Look at the symmetry. God calls Abraham 'rock' and immediately reminds us that He called Abraham alone, to be uniquely blessed.

Perhaps you'll argue that God changing Abram's name was pointless.

And that in His calling Abraham 'rock', He was simply referring to Himself.

You keep descending further down this
silliness hole.

For what purpose?

Ok.....why are the apostles and prophets reffered to as foundation of the church if they were not called "Peter" or "cephas" by Jesus?

GaelllicII:
Let me get this straight.

You are arguing that

Jesus Christ changed Simon's name to a word translated 'rock'

so that He, Jesus Christ in conversation with Simon,
could use the word translated 'rock'(Simon's new name)
not in reference to Simon
but to Himself?

Be honest with me and with yourself.
How does this make sense?
Why then did Jesus change Simon's name to 'rock' in the first place?

Oga you are twisting....Jesus did not say On this "Peter" or "Cephas" I would build my church. He used the Greek Petra and not Petros which is translated Peter/Cephas.

Oga if you agree that Jesus Christ himself is reffered to as Rock, why can't the Rock in that verse refer to him? Infact, was the conversation not about who the "Christ" was?

GaelllicII:
So I assume you agree (unless you wish to dispute this) that Peter was part of the foundation of Church.

The recognition of Peter as having a special position among the Apostles i.e 'a special position in the foundation' is right here below, as well as all over the New Testament.


"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."
Matthew 16: 16-29

So are you denying that Jesus gave Peter special recognition among the Apostles?

You know that would mean denying Christ, right?

Oga you are grabbing straw. The above verse is not a definitive evidence. The Rock reffered to in that verse is Jesus on which the church is built as corroborated in Ephesians 2:20. Peter and other apostles and prophets are foundation while Jesus is the chief cornerstone.

GaelllicII:
The household of God is built on the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, Scripture says.

Peter was an Apostle. We agree, don't we?

So where is your Peter's special recognition as Foundational stone according to you? That is the question. Stop deflecting.

GaelllicII:
Why would there be any need for a 'separate hierarchy' as you said?

This is very simple to understand, if one is honest.

You are the one not honest. If Peter had any special foundation, it would have been mentioned. The verse clearly says foundation of the apostles and Jesus being the chief cornerstone. So where is the recognition of Peter as opposed to the position of the other Apostles and prophet?

TenQ:
y
Have a nice day!

😅😅😅Your own explanation of what goes On in Hell as gone against you. Sorry oo

Image123:
Zero fruit.

What is the fruit of the rest?

GaelllicII:
If you think this is funny, then you are either lying to yourself or you simply don't understand the issue.

A cornerstone (or foundation stone or setting stone) is the first stone set in the construction of a masonry foundation. All other stones will be set in reference to this stone, thus determining the position of the entire structure
- Wikipedia, 'Cornerstone'

A chief or head cornerstone is placed above two walls to keep them together and prevent the building from falling apart.
- Wikipedia, 'Cornerstone'


(i) A cornerstone is the first stone in a foundation.

(ii) A subsequent stones are set in reference to this one.

(iii) The use of 'chief' or 'head' cornerstone denotes that there may be more than one stone having a similar function in the edifice.

Jesus' supreme Headship is not contradicted by another person bearing the same or similar title.

Your dad bearing the title 'Father' does not contradict God's role as 'Our Father'.

You are really descending into silliness, as I warned against.

All of these are stories.....in Ephesians 2:20, Was there a seperate hierarchy for Peter as the foundational stone apart from the apostles and prophet and Jesus being the chief cornerstone?

TenQ:
Address the scriptures I gave you as I have addressed Eccl9:10 for you

Do NOT forget that you asked

MY RESPONSE WAS
Eccln9:10 means that in Hell
1. Your knowledge is useless to you
2. Your plan means nothing
3. Your wisdom avails to you nothing.

Therefore, whatever you are able to do now, do it well because in Hell, it is too late for you to do ANYTHING!







So, Address and answer the questions in the the scriptures I gave you Let me jog your memory!




There is difference between
1. Sheol/Hell/Grave
AND
2. Lake of Fire
In both is human consciousness except you disagree.


Here are specifics for Sheol/Hell/Grave

Luk 16:22-23:
"Then it happened that the beggar died, and he was carried by the Angels into the bosom of Abraham. Now the wealthy man also died, and he was entombed in Hell. Then lifting up his eyes, while he was in torments, he saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom."


You may wish to explain HOW Abraham spoke to the Rich man here!



1Pet 3:19-20:
"And in the Spirit, he preached to those who were in prison, going to those souls who had been unbelieving in past times, while they waited for the patience of God, as in the days of Noah, when the ark was being built. In that ark, a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water."


You will need to explain how Jesus preached to those who had been Unbelieving in the past as of the time of Noah if they are unconscious!



Rev 6:9-11:
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw, under the altar, the souls of those who had been slain because of the Word of God and because of the testimony that they held. And they were crying out with a loud voice, saying: “How long, O Holy and True Lord, will you not judge and not vindicate our blood against those who dwell upon the earth?” And white robes were given to each of them. And they were told that they should rest for a brief time, until their fellow servants and their brothers, who were to be slain even as they were slain, would be completed."


You will need to explain how the Beheaded could be given white robes and could speak and could wait until their brothers and fellow servants be killed!




Luk 23:43:
"And Jesus said to him, “Amen I say to you, this day you shall be with me in Paradise.”"


You will need to explain How is the good Thief be in Paradise when he is supposed to be unconscious!




Phil 1:23:
"For I am constrained between the two: having a desire to be dissolved and to be with Christ, which is the far better thing,"

You will need to explain how an unconscious Paul would to be with the Lord!




So, whether Sheol/Hades/Grave or the Lake of Fire, your doctrine is doomed.


This was why Jesus said:

Mat 22:31-32:
"But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken by God, saying to you: ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?’ He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”"

For though on earth they are dead, but they are Actually ALIVE!

So if knowledge wisdom and reason is useless in Hell, How was the rich man able to communicate and remember his past life and family on earth?

StillDtruth:
Did I say you agreed?
No!

I only said "The thread shows that you asked about aliveness in your Eccl 9:10 post back at 9:21am where I replied that "Sure.
A person held in custody is always alive and must be alive to be kept in custody.".

And now that you see you do not have any reasonable thing to say having severally tried circling back to find how to reargue your failed claim thereby committing to circular argument, now in frustration, you have noe resorted to bullying me threatening that you would BLOCK ME. Argumentum ad baccullum

See self importance ooo.

And see you responding to my
reply behind my back after blocking me! And you don't want to go to lake of fire!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You are very funny. You have said here that I did not agree that Ecclesiastes 9:10 talks about people that are alive. So what exactly is my first claim that I am circling On? Is there evidence that Ecclesiastes 9:10 is talking about the living? Failure to answer any of these two questions will also get this Account Blocked.

TenQ:
No!

There is difference between
1. Sheol/Hell/Grave
AND
2. Lake of Fire
In both is human consciousness except you disagree.


Here are specifics for Sheol/Hell/Grave

Luk 16:22-23:
"Then it happened that the beggar died, and he was carried by the Angels into the bosom of Abraham. Now the wealthy man also died, and he was entombed in Hell. Then lifting up his eyes, while he was in torments, he saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom."


You may wish to explain HOW Abraham spoke to the Rich man here!



1Pet 3:19-20:
"And in the Spirit, he preached to those who were in prison, going to those souls who had been unbelieving in past times, while they waited for the patience of God, as in the days of Noah, when the ark was being built. In that ark, a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water."


You will need to explain how Jesus preached to those who had been Unbelieving in the past as of the time of Noah if they are unconscious!



Rev 6:9-11:
"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw, under the altar, the souls of those who had been slain because of the Word of God and because of the testimony that they held. And they were crying out with a loud voice, saying: “How long, O Holy and True Lord, will you not judge and not vindicate our blood against those who dwell upon the earth?” And white robes were given to each of them. And they were told that they should rest for a brief time, until their fellow servants and their brothers, who were to be slain even as they were slain, would be completed."


You will need to explain how the Beheaded could be given white robes and could speak and could wait until their brothers and fellow servants be killed!




Luk 23:43:
"And Jesus said to him, “Amen I say to you, this day you shall be with me in Paradise.”"


You will need to explain How is the good Thief be in Paradise when he is supposed to be unconscious!




Phil 1:23:
"For I am constrained between the two: having a desire to be dissolved and to be with Christ, which is the far better thing,"

You will need to explain how an unconscious Paul would to be with the Lord!




So, whether Sheol/Hades/Grave or the Lake of Fire, your doctrine is doomed.


This was why Jesus said:

Mat 22:31-32:
"But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken by God, saying to you: ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?’ He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”"

For though on earth they are dead, but they are Actually ALIVE!

So if Ecclesiastes 9:10 is correct, how did the Rich man in Luke 16 remember his relatives and his past life since there is no Knowledge, reason and wisdom in Sheol/hades?

ocnovakmichael:
In day 1 God said let there be light. He did not say let there be sun or he, rather he said let there be light. That light is the activation of life. When Jesus transfigured on the mount, the light that radiate about him I don't suppose is the sun: for in him was and is light; and that light is the life that lighted every one that comes to earth.

Ok...now explain Genesis 2:5.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

How does the verse above relate to your explanation. Who is Day and who is NIGHT?

GaelllicII:
Contextually, yes he did.
Jesus Christ had earlier said of Peter:

"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan desired to have all of you (plural), that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you (singular) that your (singular) faith fail not. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."
Luke 22: 31-32

All bishops have authority to teach the flock, but Jesus makes it clear who has the supreme authority.
Peter is the chief bishop.

In the face of the Devil's mischief, Jesus tells us that He has prayed for Peter alone (this is quite clear in the Greek, He speaks to Peter with a singular 'you').

Jesus prayed specifically for Peter that he might be blessed with a 'faith that fails not'. 'Faith that fails not' means 'infallible'.

So contextually, St. Paul tells us that the Apostles are the foundation of the Church, which doesn't contradict Peter's position as the visible head who:

(i) has received from Jesus an infallible charism by which he declares dogmatic truths
(ii) has received from Jesus a mandate to strengthen his brother Bishops.

(This was to prevent the horror which Protestantism eventually fell into, with numerous 'leaders' leading numerous factions teaching irreconcilable doctrines.)

There must be one head.
So says Jesus Christ.

This is funny....you claimed earlier that Peter was the foundational stone of the church. So where did Paul make this distinction in Ephesians 2:19 in referring to the Apostles and prophet as the foundation and referring to Jesus as the chief cornerstone?

Image123:
Mat 7:16 KJV Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Explain...what is the fruit of TB Joshua in contrast with the rest pastors that you mentioned?

TenQ:
The question was

Now, tell me how a person can weep AFTER Death in a fire only God throws the wicked in the verses


Did you honestly think you explained ANYTHING about the verses?

Secondly,
You asked for the explanation of Eccl 9:10 and you were given but it fell on DEAF ears!
Because, you aren't interested in other than whatever memory verses you were made to store by the management of your organisation

In the verses that you quoted, where is this weeping taking place? Is it in the same Sheol that is rendered as Hell in Ecclesiastics 9:10?

Dtruthspeaker:
The thread shows that you asked about aliveness in your Eccl 9:10 post back at 9:21am where I replied that "Sure.
A person held in custody is always alive and must be alive to be kept in custody.".

And now that you see you do not have any reasonable thing to say having severally tried circling back to find how to reargue your failed claim thereby committing to circular argument, now in frustration, you have noe resorted to bullying me threatening that you would BLOCK ME. Argumentum ad baccullum

See self importance ooo.

Below is the screenshot for 9:21am. I simply asked you if there was consciousness in Hell. I never agreed that your analogy meant that those reffered to in Ecclesiastics 9:10 were alive. You are therefore Blocked for your failure to prove my contradiction.

Dtruthspeaker:
If you are not partisan do you care to be sure about who will win next year's presidential election even though you know the outcomes?
No.

Case closed

😅😅😅😅...baba don see say him God no be omniscient.

Do you agree with the screenshot about being omniscient? Yes or no? Your lack of answer to the question in your next response would earn you a BLOCK.

Dtruthspeaker:
The thread already shows what you said and what i answered, no need to bend and repeat yourself

So how does me answering you prove that Ecclesiastes 9:10 is talking about people that are alive? Was it not when you realized that you were not making sense that you said that those who are in cell are alive and I gave you the contrast with Ecclesiastes 9:10 describing dead people? If you cannot prove in your next reply that I've contradicted myself in this discussion, I would have no choice but to BLOCK YOU.

Dtruthspeaker:
Circular argument.
Answered up above that
'Why does He need to be sure? If you cheat or diiiee does it affect Him?
And if you do well does it stop Him from being God?
No.

Proverbs 9:12
"If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: but if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it."

YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO IN THIS WORLD ALONE! "

Do you agree with the screenshot below.

Dtruthspeaker:
Is it now you are seeing what I said since and you even responded to?
Now you are crooking to Afterthought and Circular argument!

As i said you see you do not have any reasonable thing to say you have re-circled back, hence circular argument

lol....you are funny. So your analogy simply bend the fact that Ecclesiastes 9:10 is talking about dead people?