I'm sorry if this is a shock for many, but i cant find a forum taged "african traditional religion", that said i'm doing a study on the african indiginous religion and well ifa from Nigeria, what is it's philosophy? The early missionaries did block out and relate d religion with the devil thus making it imposible to get an objective christian or muslim to comment on it, the babalawos are scarce again d missionaries caused it. So my last resort is d internet and its numerous forums.
When we hear xtianity they talk of Jesus wu was sent by the "jewish God", there is still no absolute agreement among them of wu Jesus is! The muslims say muhammed (peace and blesng b unto him) was a prophet, a messenger sent by "their God". What is ifa's story?? Wekipedia didnt help me much so i also add the question, in ifa how is divinition made?
Hey to the xtians and muslims here, this is an objective study and i won't tolerate insults on the tradítional religion and it peeps.

Where are the traditionalist??

Check this Thread out! I post some Ifa verses at some point in the thread.

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity

I wrote this post on the process of divination in Ifa.

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/5#5832100

The post received some constructive criticism here:

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/5#6793926

Pastor AIO: I wrote this post on the process of divination in Ifa.

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/5#5832100

The post received some constructive criticism here:

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/5#6793926

thanks a million dear, i'm a bit suprised that the traditionalist on nairaland aren't here, i'm aware they are good with criticism but it seems they do not wish to xplain what they believe.
Still waiting though...

You might find that often the 'traditionalists' are simply people sick and tired of christianity and islam and as such their stance is a reaction against these religions rather than any particular attraction to African religious ideas. That is not true for all of them, but I'm sure that some fit into this category.

Then there is the political element. ATR becomes a means of embracing your blackness, and your african identity, rather than based on any real spiritual experience.

Beyond NL, when discussing with such people, I find that their espousal of ATR tends to fall apart when you ask keen interested questions about their beliefs. One finds that they have very little actual involvement with ATR, whether as practitioners or as scholars simply taking an academic interest in it.

Pastor AIO: You might find that often the 'traditionalists' are simply people sick and tired of christianity and islam and as such their stance is a reaction against these religions rather than any particular attraction to African religious ideas. That is not true for all of them, but I'm sure that some fit into this category.

Then there is the political element. ATR becomes a means of embracing your blackness, and your african identity, rather than based on any real spiritual experience.

Beyond NL, when discussing with such people, I find that their espousal of ATR tends to fall apart when you ask keen interested questions about their beliefs. One finds that they have very little actual involvement with ATR, whether as practitioners or as scholars simply taking an academic interest in it.

Now i'm a bit depressed! It seem i wont get an answer to the inquiry from a traditionalist.
I'm looking for information in the wrong place it seems. I do have a bit of hope,
am waiting...

i know ifa believes in the concept of good and evil. so there may be good or evil babalawo's. so be careful whose perspective you take on. for a more balanced perspective there is this man : wande abimbola. Who is the representative of the ifa religion. He could help you in your research if you find a way to contact him. One day, I would also like to read the Odu's if they put it in a book. Also do my own research into this very complicated, and unique religion of my ancestors.

baby_123: i know ifa believes in the concept of good and evil. so there may be good or evil babalawo's. so be careful whose perspective you take on. for a more balanced perspective there is this man : wande abimbola. Who is the representative of the ifa religion. He could help you in your research if you find a way to contact him. One day, I would also like to read the Odu's if they put it in a book. Also do my own research into this very complicated, and unique religion of my ancestors.

Yes Wande Abimbola is the man! 'Who will mend our broken world' is a good book by him.

There are already many books with verses from all the 256 Odu.

Ifa, a complete divination - Ayo Salami

I highly recommend Ayo Salami's book. You can find his facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/owonrinelejigbo?fref=ts

Pastor AIO:

Yes Wande Abimbola is the man! 'Who will mend our broken world' is a good book by him.

There are already many books with verses from all the 256 Odu.

Ifa, a complete divination - Ayo Salami

I highly recommend Ayo Salami's book. You can find his facebook page here: https://www.facebook.com/owonrinelejigbo?fref=ts

Thank you for the info. Is the book available in bookstores or amazon? I hope one day I can write something that ties the whole religion in one book. All the history is oral and we are gradually losing it daily to mordernisation.

Pastor AIO: Check this Thread out! I post some Ifa verses at some point in the thread.

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity

it seem this one confused me! What is ifa, orisha,? etc. Can we please start form the basics!
Please note that though i may be of yoruba ancestry i grew under a different culture and heavy xtian influence so i may not even get the basics of the ifa religion. So really what is ifa? What is it/his relationship to the orishas? What are the orishas? Can they be named? How are their "origins" traced?
I'm sorry if im overloading you, u may answer one question at a time.

Ubenedictus: it seem this one confused me! What is ifa, orisha,? etc. Can we please start form the basics!
Please note that though i may be of yoruba ancestry i grew under a different culture and heavy xtian influence so i may not even get the basics of the ifa religion. So really what is ifa? What is it/his relationship to the orishas? What are the orishas? Can they be named? How are their "origins" traced?
I'm sorry if im overloading you, u may answer one question at a time.

Let me try to answer this: ifa is the belief system, while orisha's are the mini gods in that belief system. Kind of like the gods of the greek. They are gods of so many elements and things. The ifa belief system has about 400 gods I think, if not more.

Orisha are the deities in Yoruba religions. There are various orisha ogun, yemoja, oshun, shango . . . .

Each orisha has it's own cult so they each sort of have their own religion. Ogun has his own priests, rituals etc. Shango has his own priests, initiations, rituals, temples etc.

Ifa is the divination system and a cult of it's own. Ifa is involved in all the other cults, while they have their independence.

Here are some links to my explanation of the orisha and ifa in that thread. There was a lot of drama going on around the subject so many posts were actually distractions. Let me stress that this is just my own understanding of it rather than an authoritative account.

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/2#3896669

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/2#3896762

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/3#3904913


https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/3#3906815

Orisha: These are the dieties, or the central figures of the religious cults of the Yoruba. Orisha include Sango, Oya, Oshun, Ogun, Orunmila, Obatala etc.

Odu: Odu has many different meanings in different contexts. First they are what we call the 16 basic signatures of Ifa. Each signature is a different configurations of energies and has it's own distinct nature. For example Ogbe which is mentioned above is very vibrant and full of life and inspiration. This is in contrast to Oyeku which is associated with death and water/rain. They are contrasted like fire and water are contrasted.
Another meaning for Odu lies within the feminine. Odu is the Queen of all female energy. She is the wife of Orunmila, a most powerful witch.
Another meaning is tied to it's feminine nature. Odu is a womb, or a container like a calabash. So all the potentialities in the world, every possibility, is contained in Odu and Odu through a process of birthing brings possibilities into actuality.
Odu is sometimes considered an orisha too. Sometimes she is connected to Odudua. Odu ti o da iwa: Odu that created Being.

Here's a story I've copied from another site about Ori. The story is found in Ejiogbe.

The Head was a lonely figure back in the day. In those days, no one had heads and all the divinities and beings walked around purposeless. Then God announced that he was having a party in which there would be a competition. Whoever could split open the kolanut would be made king of the universe. Ori went for divination and he was told he would succeed after sacrifice. No one else bothered to consult ifa. Ori then rolled along to the party and rolled into a corner where he was ignored. When it was time for the competition, all the great and mighty orisha had a go at splitting the kolanuts but failed. Even Ogun with all his strength failed. Then it was Ori's turn. He started to roll and roll with all his might and when he impacted the kolanuts there was a loud thunderclap. The kolanuts were split. Arms, legs, necks, limbs, torso all cheered and came together to embrace and lift Ori high. They placed him on their shoulders and he has been their ruler ever since.
however Obatala got jealous. How dare that silly inconsequential Ori presume to be head over us. He raised his arm to knock Ori on the head. Faster that you could say Jackie Chan, Ori blocked it and gave him a karate chop. Obatala fell and fell and landed in Iranje. That is the center of the Obatala cult till this day. Ogun said, What! You impudent little rat, and advanced on Ori. Ori gave him a flying drop kick and he landed in Ire. That is the center of the ogun cult till this day. Oshun said, I'll show you! She got a slap and landed in Oshogbo where she turned into a river. That is the center of Oshun cult till this day. All orisha tried to challenge him and he put them in their place. Ori is what gives everything it's definition and it's place from the Orisha down to the smallest little ant. ori is the source of all good things and who we turn to for all blessings.

The Yoruba word Da has multiple meanings. It means to create. It also means to divide. And it also means to throw or to cast. So when the yoruba say Ori mi da mi re, it means Ori throw me well but it also means create me well, or mold my destiny well. When that spiritual wrestling match occurred in heaven and Ori cast all the dieties to where they belonged it is also suggesting that Ori created those dieties with their attributes.

Krayola:

Yes I did. okay,  i'm going to take some excerpts from my textbook that i think describe the essence of shinto, and i would appreciate if you could edit it as needed if it can be applied to describe african traditional religion. I'm just trying to arrive at some kind of articulation of what our traditional religion is about. I will replace "shinto" with "ATR" (African Traditional Religion), and "Japan" with "Africa" and "Buddhism" with "Christianity',  and leave the japanese dieties' names intact so you can edit as applies, and if you feel it is a pointless exercise because they are not that similar, just let me know. so you can just remove what does not apply and edit what does in whatever way you think fits. thank you. 
OK I think thats short enough,  haha. hope you didn't fall asleep half way through

I will agree with a lot of what you wrote when ATR is used in place of Shinto with one or two point only that I don't agree with.

I think the most important thing to be aware of in both cases is that the object of worship is the Earth.   ie.  The Features of the land, the landscape.  every square inch of earth is presided over by a spirit, ultimately what we are dealing with is deities of locales or genii loci. 

Local Spirits (genii loci)

The spirits which were believed to inhabit natural features of the landscape, such as springs and caves were the foundation of ancient religious belief. In many parts of Greece they have survived in folk belief into the twenty-first century.

http://www.anagnosis.gr/index.php?la=eng&pageID=116

Imagine a man with a problem one day climbs and mountain and enter a cave there where he experience a great sense of calm and numinousity.  As he sits in this cave he feels that there is a presence there and as he immerses himself in the quietude all of a sudden the solution to his problems occurs to him, it just pops up in his head.  He might conclude that a genius in that place had given him the solution to his problem.  He might begin the practice of returning to that place to recharge his energies and receive inspiration.  Furthermore other people claim to have the same experiences as he has had.  Over time this practice of returning to the cave may get more elaborate and ritualised and before long we have a full blown cult of the deity of the mountain cave.   

In yoruba religion this earth that we tread on is considered a deity.  Ebora Ile is her name. Absolutely every feature of the land is one deity or the other, an aspect of Earth. The principle orisha of Ibadan is a mountain that overlooks Ibadan.  This is the orisha Oke Ibadan.  The river Niger is the Orisha Oya.  The river Oshun in Osun state is the goddess Oshun.  the river Oogun in Ogun state is the orisha Yemoja Oogun.  The Lagoon in Lagos is called Olosa.  The Ocean is called Olokun.  Remember the story about how Ori threw all the orisha down to earth.  Ori da Ogun si Ire.  Ori created/threw Ogun to Ire.  Ire Ekiti is the center of the Ogun cult.  The Town of Koso is the center of the Shango cult.  All these deity have their geographical location.  These are certain places where their presence is said to reside.
This is why on occasion is is not enough to make an ebo (food offering) in any ol' shrine of a deity but rather the devotee is instructed to go and make ebo in a very particular shrine in a very particular place.  This is also tied in with the idea of pilgrimage. 

So to look at your re-edition of the text on shinto.

According to current scholarship, ATR is not a single self-conscious religious tradition but rather an overarching label applied to ways of honoring the spirits in nature that have evolved since ancient times in Africa. These ways have at times been combined with imperial myths supporting the worldly rulers.

This is accurate.  In fact there is not organised single structure.  Shango cult is a religion all to itself with it's own codes etc.  Obatala is a cult all to itself, Oshun is a cult all to itself.


The spiritual heart of ATR has no founder, no orthodox canon or sacred literature, and no explicit code of ethical requirements. It is so deep-seated and ancient that the symbolic meanings of many of it's elaborate rituals have been forgotten by those who practice them. It seems to have begun as the local religion of agricultural communities and had no name until christianity was imported.


This is true too, although Ifa adherents sometimes make Orunmila out to be an historical character that taught the religion to the yorubas.  Many of the orisha cults are still very much local religions.  For instance only Ibadan people worship Okebadan.  Even where different areas worship an orisha bearing the same name the practice can often differ considerably.  For instance the worship of Ogun in the eastern part of yorubaland is different from the way he is approached in the western part.

The people lived so harmoniously with their environment that they had no separate word for "nature" until they started importing western ideas. Living close to nature, the people experienced life as a continual process of change and renewal. they organized their lives around the turn of the seasons, honorinng the role of the sun, moon , and lightning in their rice farming.

Surrounded by nature's beauty and power, the African people found the divine all around them. in ATR, the sacred is both immanent and transcendent. in African mythology, the divine originated as one essence. "In primeval ages, before the earth was formed, amorphous matter floated freely about like oil upon water. In time there arose in it;s midst a thing like a sprouting reedshoot, and from this a deity came forth of it's own"

Yes, in yoruba religions the divine is infused into the earth yet at the same time the divine is separate, transcendent.


The deity gave birth to many Kami (i'm guessing this can mean orishas), or spirits, two of which- The Amatsu Kami- were told to organize the material world. Standing on the floating bridge of Heaven, they stirred the ocean into a jeweled spear. When they pulled it out of the water, it dripped brine back into the ocean, where it coagulated into islands, with mountains, rivers, plants, and trees (interpreted either as Africa or the entire world). To rule this earthly Kingdom they created the Kami Amaterasu, Goddess of the Sun. etc etc,  it goes on and on but i don't want to bore u with that, lol

Edumare sent Obatala to give form to the world.  The orisha were then sent to govern over the affairs of the world.



Although the word kami is usually translated as god or spirit, it refers to a single essence manifesting in many places. Rather than invoking an image, like the Christian/Hindu dieties, kami refers to a quality. it means "that which evokes wonder and awe in us". The kami harmonize heaven and earth and also guide the solar system and the cosmos.

Kami could, by dint of an extreme contrivance, be related to Emi, spirit in yoruba.  What is it about an Orisha that characterises it.  This is called Ase (authority).  Where the Ase of the deity is to be found that is where the deity is.  Whether it is in certain herbs or in a location or in a substance.  Ie Ogun is Iron.  The important thing to note is that Ogun is not God  of Iron, or owner of iron but he is Iron itself.  Iron contains that Ase that is identified as Ogun.  There are herbs that have that ase too and there are places that are imbued with that ase and there are chants and music that can invoke that ase. 
But an interesting point you raise is about the iconography of the deities.  Ogun is a certain quality but he also has a distinct iconography with his weapons and his hammer banging away in his workshop.  So does Shango with his double head ose, and Obatala with his opa osoro (walking stick).  These icons spring up unbidden from the unconscious mind ( I believe)  and they can be found all over the world in different religions. 

In the ATR there is no concept of sin. the world is beautiful and full of helpful spirits. Sexuality per se is not sinful; the world was created by mating dieties, and people have traditionally bathed together in Africa. However there is a great problem of ritual impurity that may offend the kani and bring about calamities such as war, drought and famine.


The quality of impurity or misfortune is called tsumi. It can arise through defilement of corpses or menstruation, by unkind interaction between humans, between humans and the environment, or through natural catastrophies. In contrast to repentance required by religions that emphasize sin, tsumi requires purification. Followers of the way of the Kami have various ways of removing tsumi."


I think the point is a bit over laboured here.  It all depends on what one means by sin.  If sin is an impurity or an act that makes one impure so that one cannot commune with the deity then what difference is that from the Tsumi.  In yoruba religion there is what is called eewo.  Often translated as taboo.  Every orisha has it's eewo and a devotee can become impure by no observing the taboo.

There is so much more to write about but so little time.  I'll have to come back to this later.

Pastor AIO: I wrote this post on the process of divination in Ifa.

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/5#5832100

The post received some constructive criticism here:

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/5#6793926

this one is really good! I would like you to reserve this for when u are chanced, i will like an explanation for each Odu, is that possible?

baby_123: i know ifa believes in the concept of good and evil. so there may be good or evil babalawo's. so be careful whose perspective you take on. for a more balanced perspective there is this man : wande abimbola. Who is the representative of the ifa religion. He could help you in your research if you find a way to contact him. One day, I would also like to read the Odu's if they put it in a book. Also do my own research into this very complicated, and unique religion of my ancestors.

then consider me another seeker of information,

Pastor AIO, I know ori means head. But in a spiritual context I think it means spirit. When Yoruba's pray: ki ori mi ma gbaabode". May my spirit not betray me or disappoint me.

Pastor AIO: Here are some links to my explanation of the orisha and ifa in that thread. There was a lot of drama going on around the subject so many posts were actually distractions. Let me stress that this is just my own understanding of it rather than an authoritative account.

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/2#3896669

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/2#3896762

https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/3#3904913


https://www.nairaland.com/48078/ifa-orisa-religion-true-identity/3#3906815

does this mean that ori (head) not olodumare "created" the orishas?

baby_123:

Let me try to answer this: ifa is the belief system, while orisha's are the mini gods in that belief system. Kind of like the gods of the greek. They are gods of so many elements and things. The ifa belief system has about 400 gods I think, if not more.

There is no such thing as mini-God or major-God. It is we humans who generally by default choose/chose the Creator Deity/Creator Force as the Supreme Major God, due to our orientation towards the origin.. Hoever your Chief Deity can still be any other force.

There are countless Spiritual Forces, but we tend to only worship those that affect our lives. This is why more advanced Civilization, have advanced Paganism and more Gods, than those that are still at the grassroots (who have fewer ones. e.g., those concerning rain,fertility,etc.).

however either path is right.

Pastor AIO: Orisha are the deities in Yoruba religions. There are various orisha ogun, yemoja, oshun, shango . . . .

Each orisha has it's own cult so they each sort of have their own religion. Ogun has his own priests, rituals etc. Shango has his own priests, initiations, rituals, temples etc.

Ifa is the divination system and a cult of it's own. Ifa is involved in all the other cults, while they have their independence.

there you go. just what I was saying. .

ok Ubenedictus. I have reopened this thread. I just saw it. let us do the research you wanted. Throw me the questions. Throw me facts. I am hungry.

Pastor AIO: You might find that often the 'traditionalists' are simply people sick and tired of christianity and islam and as such their stance is a reaction against these religions rather than any particular attraction to African religious ideas. That is not true for all of them, but I'm sure that some fit into this category.

Then there is the political element. ATR becomes a means of embracing your blackness, and your african identity, rather than based on any real spiritual experience.

Beyond NL, when discussing with such people, I find that their espousal of ATR tends to fall apart when you ask keen interested questions about their beliefs. One finds that they have very little actual involvement with ATR, whether as practitioners or as scholars simply taking an academic interest in it.

that is not entirely true but i see where you are going. Well, in the case of birth-Pagans like us, we do not know any other reliigous concept and when we do know, it doesnt make any sense to us.

dont talk to me about blackness. i dislike racism. I am a thorough Tribalist. (not tribalism. a supporter of Worldwide Tribes. Tribesman myself).

THe point is that many Africans who do genuinely want to return to Tribal Religion, cannot do so owing to lack of guidance and dont know where to be initiated or convert. I am trying to take an initiative in that case. I asked JeSOul to put my thread of contacting a Babalawo for the Yorubas for reconversion, on the front page, but she and the MODS idnt put it there.

when people dont know how to join the religion, how do you expect them to make discussions and arguments. They dont have any guidance at all. Its 0.

PAGAN 9JA:
ok Ubenedictus. I have reopened this thread. I just saw it. let us do the research you wanted. Throw me the questions. Throw me facts. I am hungry.

tanks for reopening da thread,if u check d thread u'll see i'm interested in d ifa philosophy wha'd ya know abt it?

Ubenedictus:
does this mean that ori (head) not olodumare "created" the orishas?

Olodumare is the ultimate arbiter of everything so I guess whatever Ori does, it is Olodumare at work.


In Christianity one can ask if Christ created the world or if Yahweh created the world.

Orunmila

Orunmila (known as Orúnmila, Orunmilá, Orúnla, or Orúla in Nigeria and Latin America) is an Orisha. He is the Orisha of wisdom, knowledge, and divination. This source of knowledge is believed to have a keen understanding of the human form and of purity, praised as being often more effective than other remedies.