I have been trying to get a group with people behind the scene in the film industry and I think I have found the right place here in Graphics. I went to TV section and its all about gossips about nollywood stars. We need a new wave of film in nigeria. I left Nigeria to study film in sSouth Africa because Nollywood sucks to me and I dont want to join them in making the type of film they make but I know there is talent in nigeria. We that support a new wave of film should come together and sweep those trash that nollywood is maki9ng away and make films that will be recognised in film festivals around the world and not in nigeria alone. Nollywood release the 3rd highest films in the world but how many of theose make it to Oscars or Cannes. they dont even make it to sithengi in south africa. they only make it to south african stree corners anf sold for R15. South Africa make few films but those few still get nominations around the world and even won oscars(Tsotsi).

IF YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO SEE QUALITY IN NIGERIAN FILMS AND NOT QUANTITY LETS JOIN HAND, EXCHANGE CONTACTS AND MAKE FILM THAT WOULD CATCH THE EYES OF THE WORLD.

bros i am totally behind u, i am willing to join the train men. Nollywood really sucks, my contacts are as follows: my phone no is: 080-53984723, my email is: orti_ngusha@yahoo.com. Pls holla me i have contacts of a good scriptwriter.

i feel u so much. i am aspiring to be the steven spielberg of nigeria. someone that will make films that will educate, inform and also entertain. nollywood is bad, but i have stopped doing the blame game. many of the so-called producers and directors are not literates and skilled, so they just sleep and dream of something withiut giving i much tot and research.

i am determined to influence and make a big impact in the film and also tv industry in nigeria and africa.

i am ready to work with anyone who is serious and determined.

Am behind you guys

This is it!! iam really happy someone is singing the same song iam singing. now if we are willing guys lets really put our hands togather,but i warn you it wont be easy.but if we are really singing the same song we will surly overcome. did i sound pesimistic there? well i have been with people who say this and that about nollywood only to be shocked at the kind of footages they shoot and ask me to help make the picture better,being a good Editor does not make me a magician,hope you grab my drift. but all the same iam with you guys you can holla me @07034736971or okikestudios@gmail.com iknow the nitty-gritty of movie making for sure!!!

well, i guess we can get to work. we should not just talk the talk but work the talk.

please lets get to work. we can begin by sharing ideas and knowing what each one has to offer.


someone like zpixel has a lot to offer

Sounds nice. I'm quite good in video editing and composite animation (animated video effects). I'd like to hear what your project is about. Maybe you can give us more info.

bishoptboy:

Yeah, I'm kinda in the business too, entertainment and all, would like to hear what you got in mind. Got productions to my credit already, but it's the same old same old

@tomX:

Sounds nice. I'm quite good in video editing and composite animation (animated video effects). I'd like to hear what your project is about. Maybe you can give us more info.

I really want to explore animated production. Could you like give me a rundown of expenses on how to shoot a 130 mns animated video. I'd really love to hear from you

Well, @adjadrage, you probably know already that in the creative field their is no off-the-hat price list. You have to checkout what you have by way of equipments, crew/talent and stuff. Know what you can achive by yourself and what you have to outsource (or get paid help for).
You need to get your script in place and then sit with your directors (both those for animation, set, photography, etc) and work out an achieveable story board. This will help you determine the level of work that will be involved in the animation, video shoot (in case of composite animation which is a combo of real world elements + animations).
This is when you will just beging to get a sketchy idea of how much will be involved cost-wise and time-wise. A lot of things will evolve as the production goes on anyway and so will the cost.

Uuhhhh, come on. I just want have an idea of cost, not really specifics. Would the entire cost of production exceed 500K or 1M, or would it be in the 5M range . That's what I wanted to know bro. . .

Okay then, 50K is not too small for the project and 50M is not too much either. It all boils down to the specifics.

_{[If you think about it, there is no fixed cost for a shirt. You will get shirts in Oshodi for #50.00 yet there are Haute Couture shirts for $30,000.00 - it all boils down to the specifics. The concept is analogous].}

all right ajadrage, i think the cost of producing the animated features depend on the story, method(2d or 3d), skills, quality and other factors like labour and time.

from the way u re talking, its like u're really interested in producing an animated film. i've some ideas for both animation and other films. i am already working on some scripts.

ajadrage, all said and done, the cost, as already been said depends on whether it is a 2d/3d animated film. if it is too 2d a lot of time and investment goes to art supplies, concept art, etc. if 3d, it still depends on the level of detail or realism that you are trying to achieve and your time constraint, cos that enables you to know the amount of 2d/3d artist you need, motion capture, graphic tablets, render farm etc.
what you do is write your script, discuss the amount of major/secondary characters, props,etc. and then you will be able to estimate the cost and time to complete an animated film. well, thank God we are always here to help! Good Luck!
by the way, am with you guys on this one!

by the way in case some of you guys are not aware am a 3d modeller/animator. so what you guys got in mind.

Thanks Guys. i'M SO OVERWHEALMED TO SEE PEOPLE THAT ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT GOOD FILMS. PLEASE SEND ME YOUR CONTACTS AND WE CAN START BY CHATTING OVER YAHOO MESSANGER. I HOPE TO COME TO NIGERIA IN 2008 AND I WILL CONTACT YOU ALL. SORRY FOR BEING QUIET FOR A LITTLE WHILE. I WILL ALSO CONTACT SOME OF MY FRIENDS WHO ARE NOT IN NIGEIRA AND ARE INTERESTED IN A NEW WAVE OF FILM.
CHEERS GUYS
ALSO I'M ON FACEBOOK IF YOU ARE ON FACEBOOK YOU CAN SEARCH FOR Toba Oduwaiye AND YOU CAN ADD ME AND FROM FACEBOOK WE CAN FORM A NEW GROUP. IF YOU ARE ALSO INTERESTED IN STUDYING FILM MAKING IN SOUTH AFRICA LET ME KNOW I CAN HELP APPLY. BUT PLEASE NOTE THAT I WONT PAY ANY FEES OOO. I'M A STUDENT HERE TOO.

my mail address is jemit2002@yahoo.com. i guess we can start from that.

I'm also interested but only in the visual effects aspects (tho all I can do is draw and color and use photoshop)kinda like what ILM does for hollywood. I love directors who use a substancial amount of CG effects in thier movies (eg.: Stephen Speilberg, Robert Rodriguez,, )

you can all add me to your friends list on yahoo. my address is tobaoduwaiye@yahoo.com. my gmail address is tobainexcess@gmail.com

jemit:
i think the cost of producing the animated features depend on the story, method(2d or 3d), skills, quality and other factors like labour and time.

iparrot:
thank God we are always here to help!

3d, 2d, all these d talk dey make me remember my day's for primary school, and in the pecking order, those in primary 1a or 2b, were considered as the egg heads. C classes were considered okay too as they were usually capable of causing upsets and breaking the ranks into a classes and b classes, but those guys in d meeen Some naughty ones amongst us then used to call them d for dullards. I know many of kids wey cry well well due to those childhood teasings. Today, thankfully, a lot of them are doing okay with their lives.

Sorry for that small dive into memory lane, just this dimensional terminologies I no grab like that, but since the days of my small pikinhood, I loved cartoons like Tom and Jerry, Scooby doo, Speed Racer stuff that kids love.

But see what I'm thinking. I know Lagbaja Surulere video, while that is not what I want, it gives me a base for my thots. I'm not talking about a 'Shrek' kind of concept, rather something like an 'Aladdin' thing. It'll be like a simple pencil, paper and colour arrangement. It might have some heavy population, like the need for some crowd, but that I know can be done and there might be the need for some fight and battle scenes. But a major cast of about eight characters or even less would do for 90 minutes or thereabouts.

I no dey hurry as such, but I have to schedule something into the first quarter of 08, I would like to experience a deviation from what is available and am seriously considering an animated production. But folks wey get these things for head are hard to come by in BC, I never fit get good reference. I just want to know the effect that such a project would have on my finances. A cost in the 100k range that should not exceed 150k, if that's not too ridiculous. If it is, then could someone please tell what isn't. . .

We do have a film-making section, but very few people are using it, for some reason:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/board-58.0.html

Seun:

We do have a film-making section, but very few people are using it, for some reason

You will do well then to transfer this topic to that section soon

@ajadrage: Obviously you're talking about 2d animation. It'll be difficult to give you an estimate of how much it'll cost to make a 2d feature of such length (did you say 130mins??), because even american and asian animated features don't stretch that long. I understand that in asia [south korea to be precise], where a lot of u.s and japanese animation are outsourced to, it costs roughly $3,000 usd to produce a minute of animation. I know it costs way more than that in the US and Japan, hence why a lot of their animation gets outsourced to a place like south korea to save costs -- animated commercials usually cost more than the per-minute estimate even though they run for less screen time. You can do a quick online search of how much it cost the major studios in japan and the u.s. to make their popular 2d animated flicks. The declared estimated cost of the Lion King (1994) by Disney was over $73million, Aladdin (1992) cost the studio $28million, Road to Eldorado (2000) cost Dreamworks SKG studios $95million -- and involved an estimated 500 artists about 4yrs from all around the world to bring the feature to life. One of the most expensive japanese animated features cost over $20million dollars, can't readily remember the name of the flick, but I think it was directed by ace animator Hayao Miyazaki [of Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke fame]. The popular american Adult Swim animated series, The Boondocks, is animated in South Korea and produced by Sony Pictures for big bucks. So bro, whatever you have in mind, best believe it won't come cheap. Senegal's Pictoons studio charges about $2,500 per minute of animation and you can contact them for more enquiries.

You can also check out my animation-related threads for a more comprehensive idea of what animation entails:  https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-71864.0.html and https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-97684.0.html

[quote author=Lafem link=topic=101797.msg1803523#msg1803523 date=1198938497][/quote]

Mmm, thanksalot for your response to my enquiries, I must say that although I expected that such an enterprise won't come cheap like you rightly mentioned, but thye rates which you cited's gonna have me bankrupt real fast but I really want to do this and from your threads which I perused, I see that them South African brothers are already into this animated thing real deep.

You mentioned about some big millions used in Hollywood animation and about 2.5k USD for a minute of animated production, but this is kind of waaay beyond my budget. Ain't there something that could be done which would be much simpler and less expensive (infact very less expensive) ? I see some locally produced animation stuff on nigerian television and I know that these things don't cost hell. I would'nt mind the most basic of these things as this production is not one that would be in competition with what is available in Hollywood. I just want to tell a story that'll be delivered from a different perspective from what is currently available. It's a 90 minute flick sorry, and not 130 minutes.

You could call me an independent investor that have dabbled into local home video production which cost about 300k per production. I would'nt mind investing these funds in a low budget animated story. If e no go work, maybe I'll just have to wait awhile until I got some bigger bucks, but then, if it's possible, I no mind take this risk meeen. And thanks again for your response, I really appreciate.

Abeg, anyone out there that thinks it's gonna be possible for something in the cost range I mentioned?

@ajadrage: My man, I'll try and break down the process of 2d animation in layman's terms, perhaps that'll help you better understand why it costs so much to produce, as well as why there's a dearth of such production going on in naija and much of africa today -- with the exception of south africa and Senegal, of course.

I've found that a lot of regular folks are unaware of, and underestimate, the sort of hard-work and level of [specialized] skill that's required to make 2d animation -- a famous animator once remarked, instructively, that being able to draw very well doesn't automatically mean that one will be able to animate, because animation demands a specialized skill and technique that's painstaking to learn. 2d animation, otherwise known as Traditional or Classical animation, in this case is for the most part HAND-DRAWN. Back in the day, before the advent of the computer as we know it, it was extremely cumbersome and expensive to make 2d animation due to the intricacy and consequent inaccessibility of the technology that's required for its production. But today with super-fast computers it's much easier and less expensive to produce.

Peep this. You'd require 24 drawings [or frames] to produce just one second of animation. Multiply that by 60, and you'd have 1,440 drawings to achieve 60seconds [or 1 minute]] of animation. Did you get that? That's 1,440 frames of individual drawings for just one minute of animation. The drawings still gotta be timed, cleaned-up from their initial rough state, painted digitally or otherwise, composited, edited, e.t.c. All that'll require a lot of time.

I'm an animator myself, and the highest number of drawings I can make in a day is 300, and bro, IT AIN'T FUN! Click on the following link to view the youtube pencil-test clip of a 28 second animation exercise I did late last year to hone my skillz:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rtgMlIsD1A. I did that in two days, and it gulped a total of 600 individual drawings, which had to be scanned one-by-one into computer, before I set the timing. Mind you, those are just rough drawings that haven't been cleaned-up yet. Clean-up is a meticulous and time-consuming process by itself -- most big studios have a special clean-up department manned with a couple of artists who do just that; meticulously clean-up rough drawings. Then, after that you gotta paint/color each frame/drawing individually. Imagine that you have a 5minute short subject animation, that'll translate to 7,200 individual drawings/frames that'll have to be digitally painted! It's standard practice for most hollywood and japanese studios to sub-contract/outsource some of these tasks to other studios in order to save time and money. Which is why the average japanese and american animated feature takes YEARS to complete -- and on average involve hundreds of artists and specialists.

With that background, I hope you can now understand why I might want to charge $2,500 per minute of animation -- which will basically cover the storyboarding, background, animation, clean-up, compositing, synchronization of animation to sound, editing, e.t.c. With the sorta budget you say you're willing to invest, at best I'd say you can squeeze out a 5-minute animated short, as I'm aware of a couple of independent animators, like Bill Plympton and Brian Lemay, who entirely fund and produce their own [award-winning] animation for about as much as you say you have [to spend] --$3,000.

i am also interested,i am a gud scriptwriter and wld like to join the team that makes a difference.i am also on facebook.

junky u said u re a scriptwriter, i wud like to meet someone like u so we can work together on some stories. i have got a couple of stories and have started but not completed the scripts for many of them.

i hope u re really good, as in different from the rest.

lafem nice work on ur 2d projects, but to speak the truth i am not one dat has interest in 2d animation may be because i have not seen the best or future in it. to me i feel its time has passed and 3d is here to stay(at least until 4d comes around).

but seriously u re doing a good work, do u have interest in 3d.

3d allows the computer to do more of the work; that's all. So how can it be labeled inferior?

Everything you have against 3d is due to the technology's relative immaturity. Why fall into that trap?

Everytime a new technology comes up, people criticize it not realizing that it can only get better than what it is replacing. People used to say video was "inferior" to film but now we have video cameras that yield better images than film cameras. People used to say handwritten correspondence was "superior" to typewritten correspondence because it was monotonous but now we have desktop publishing systems with hundreds of unique fonts and colors.

The fact is that 3d is a step forward. By the time the tools for 3d animation are as mature as the tools for 2d animation, there will be no comparison between the two. Just as you can't compare very old black and white 2d animations to current 3d animations.

Let's not fall into the habit of criticizing every new technology just because it's not yet mature. It's unhelpful!

Like Seun said, 3D merely allows the computer to do more of the work, however, I'll be very quick to add that without a sound and solid grasp of 2D-based animation principles, any attempt at 3D animation will come out FLAT. And also, 3D animation isn't as easy, compared to 2D, as some folks would like to imagine -- it's just as labourious -- as the article I'll provide below will show.

Animation is basically about being able to successfully convey an illusion of BELIEVABLE movement -- not neccesarily 'realistic' but 'believable'. Therein lies the POWER and DYNAMISM of the medium relative/compared to Live-Action; with animation you can convincingly achieve movements that cannot be realistically projected or portrayed with live-action -- one can exaggerate/stretch/morph both living and inanimate things, infact anything, get away with it, give it an element of drama, and raise it to the height of entertainment. It might surprise some of you guys to know that virtually ALL the popular 3D animated movies were made by professional animators with SOLID 2D background -- if you doubt the veracity of that statement, you can throw any 3D animated movie title at me and I'll tell give you verifiable histories of its animation director(s). In other words, it's simply just not possible to do GOOD 3D without a good grasp of the principles that's made 2D to remain the most popular, most produced, and most bought form of animation till today -- regardless of how many hours one spends rendering and modeling 3D images.

IMO, there's just an enduring and universal charm and magic that 2D projects that can't be duplicated in 3D, not to mention that it gives the artist, as opposed to the computer, more control over their character; when I watch some of the breath-taking fight scenes from animes like Samurai Champloo, Rhonin Kenshin, Afro Samurai, Ninja Scroll, CowBoy Bebop,e .t.c. (it's a documented fact that Japanese animation studios don't care much for 3D, even though they blend it with 2D in some of their more recent animes -- e.g one can easily notice when they combine 2D foregrounds to 3D background)  it's hard for me to picture such scenes in 3D; my mind just won't accept it. Same goes for Disney's the Lion King, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast, e.t.c.

Like Brad Bird, the famous director of such Pixar hits like the 'Iron Giant' (2D), 'The Incredibles' (3D) and the recent 'Ratatoulle' (3D -- very very very good and entertaining movie) said in a recent interview, a director's decision to use either 2d or 3d should boil down to the story.

In the long-term, I intend to delve into 3D animation, but that'll be after I've exhausted the many, many, many, many, many, and plenty, plenty, plenty   2D story ideas in my head.






Now on to the excerpts from the article I mentioned earlier -- it's concerns what the major u.s animation producers have to say about 2D and 3D animation, and can be read in it's entirety by visiting http://www.animationmagazine.net/article.php?article_id=4749

Toon Producers Talk Shop

Friday, November 18, 2005
By: Ryan Ball

The Producers’ Guild of America’s New Media Council assembled an impressive roster of producers and production execs from leading studios for Thursday night’s panel discussion titled “Animation Producers: New Skill to Draw From.” Held at the Sony Imageworks Theater in Culver City, Calif., this latest in a series of informative and entertaining PGA events tackled a number of hot-button issues while addressing the finer points of producing 2D and 3D animation for television and film.

Moderated by Sony Pictures Animation producer Michelle Murdocca (Open Season), the discussion included Walt Disney Feature Animation VP of production Carolyn Soper, DreamWorks Animation producer Mark Swift (Shark Tale), Mike Young Prods. co-founder and partner Mike Young (Jakers! The Adventures of Piggley Winks, Pet Alien), The Jim Henson Co. new media producer Bret Nelson and XLT CEO David Koenig (producer of Bratz, Lil' Bratz, Build A Bear Workshop DVDs).

A main focus of the evening was why producers decide to use 3D over 2D, or vice versa. Swift, who was part of DreamWorks’ shift from 2D to 3D, mentioned that one of the major benefits of 3D animation is the lack of what’s called “line mileage.” He explained that in the world of hand-drawn 2D, the more lines a character has, the longer it takes to animate and the more money it costs. “We realized that with 3D, we could make the characters as detailed as we wanted,” he remarked. However, Henson’s Nelson was quick to point out that “render is the killer on the CG side.”

To work around the slowdowns and equipment woes related to rendering, Nelson and his team are taking a fairly novel approach to 3D animation production. A new animated series they’re producing is being shot like a three-camera live-action sitcom. Using the patented Henson Digital Performance Studio, puppeteers animated characters in real-time. The footage is then edited and only the parts that are going to make the final cut are rendered.

The general consensus held that there are very little cost differences between producing 3D and 2D on the film side, while Nelson noted that 3D is more expensive for television. In regards to CG animation budgets, Disney’s Soper said the most frustrating thing is the “lack of exactness in determining what something is going to cost,” indicating that whatever’s on paper before the production starts is merely a guess because they’re developing the films as they’re in production. She adds, “There’s a constant balance and trade-off in dealing with the [production] as a whole and managing the complexity of the individual parts.”

Mike Young said a major difference between TV and film is that TV producers are more like directors and often have an artistic background because they deal heavily with storyboards. He revealed that his studio is even developing a secret system to augment the storyboards in order to better communicate ideas to off-shore animators. “How does an animator India know how a spoiled California girl is supposed to act?” he asked, adding that their proprietary solution will help keep things from being lost in translation. Young also commented that creator-driven shows, such as Steve Hillenbrand’s SpongeBob SquarePants, are always better and that studio features need to have more of a central creative voice.

@ Seun: 3D or CG animation technology can improve from here to heaven, but I still maintain that it can never replace the charm of classical 2D-style animation. Like I said in my earlier post, the story should be the deciding factor as to which style to go with. Sometimes I think you gotta be more than a mere casual observer or animation audience to grasp that 'koko'.

@combrazor: You should consider becoming an animator, bro. I'm highly impressed by your knowledge of the medium.  . I recently got my hands on some old 'Goofy' shorts by Disney, from the 'Golden age', and I tell you, the quality of the animation almost gave me an orgasm!  Classical animation, if you have the eyes to appreciate its unparalled quality, is sheer beauty and kicks ass. Btw, where are you located, bro?