MacDaddy01:


lol....fairytales

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-arabs-descendants-of-ishmael.htm

wonders shall never end.

a self-acclaimed (or is it possessed?) atheist is using a christian apologetic website with an anti-islamic lie to spread nonsense.

won't you also defend the trinity?

PS: I checked your website.and a lie they mentioned (among the other lies) is that there is no evidence Ishmael or Hagar were in Makkah.well you should know that according to the Bible,the two did step foot in arabia:

Galatians 4:25
Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.

(note that the above verse cannot be taken figuratively as the christian would speculate because Hagar is not from arabia but from egypt).so if really Hagar (as) was in arabia,why do you find it hard to believe Abraham stepped foot in Makkah?

here is even more explicit verse regarding the "wilderness of Paran" which is Arabia:

Genesis 21:20-21 (KJV)
“And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.”

LagosShia:

wonders shall never end.

a self-acclaimed (or is it possessed?) atheist is using a christian apologetic website with an anti-islamic lie to spread nonsense.

won't you also defend the trinity?

PS: I checked your website.and a lie they mentioned (among the other lies) is that there is no evidence Ishmael or Hagar were in Makkah.well you should know that according to the Bible,the two did step foot in arabia:

Galatians 4:25
Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.

(note that the above verse cannot be taken figuratively as the christian would speculate because Hagar is not from arabia but from egypt).so if really Hagar (as) was in arabia,why do you find it hard to believe Abraham stepped foot in Makkah?

here is even more explicit verse regarding the "wilderness of Paran" which is Arabia:

Genesis 21:20-21 (KJV)
“And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.”

First and foremost, you can act foolish but the fact remains that Christians and Jews have more knowledge about Ishameal or Hagar since its from their books.

It is irrelevant if I am an atheist in this case.


Furthermore, the is no historical evidence for Abraham in the first place, if we were to be serious with facts.



Also, you are talking nonsense, there is no evidence that Abraham set foot in Mecca. Mount Sinai has nothing to do with Mecca

MacDaddy01:

how.....because my interpretation of the verse is different......explain to a kaffir

The verses points out that every group (community) were sent messengers to guide them to the right part! Hence it follows every race or ethnicity had been sent a messenger who spoke to them in their own language about God etc!

vedaxcool:

The verses points out that every group (community) were sent messengers to guide them to the right part! Hence it follows every race or ethnicity had been sent a messenger who spoke to them in their own language about God etc!

WTF? So my cousins great great grandfather who was a pagan priest was Allah's messenger?

MacDaddy01:


WTF? So my cousins great great grandfather who was a pagan priest was Allah's messenger?

Lol are ashamed of your ancestry? now the Qur'an did not speak of your g. g. Granffather so we have no way of telling such, what the Qur'an affirms is that every nation was sent a messenger at some point in time! That is the gist of the matter.
Who provided them guidance!

vedaxcool:

Lol are ashamed of your ancestry? now the Qur'an did not speak of your g. g. Granffather so we have no way of telling such, what the Qur'an affirms is that every nation was sent a messenger at some point in time! That is the gist of the matter.
Who provided them guidance!

The people in West Africa in Muhammad's time were pagans. They remain pagans until muslim slave traders came.


So who was the messenger for West Africa?

^

The verse speaks of a time b4 d prophet pbuh! Furthermore the Qur'an speaks of how people deviated from the path that messengers past brought to their people!

vedaxcool: ^

The verse speaks of a time b4 d prophet pbuh! Furthermore the Qur'an speaks of how people deviated from the path that messengers past brought to their people!

The time before the prophet? Is the Quran endorsing paganism because that was was existed in West Africa before Muhammed

MacDaddy01:


First and foremost, you can act foolish but the fact remains that Christians and Jews have more knowledge about Ishameal or Hagar since its from their books.

It is irrelevant if I am an atheist in this case.

sometimes i wonder if your parents ever flog you.you sound like a spoilt brat.

which more knowledge are you talking about? the one in the bible i can also read? or may be you too buy the christian propaganda of the "gift of holy spirit" to understand the bible?

Furthermore, the is no historical evidence for Abraham in the first place, if we were to be serious with facts.



Also, you are talking nonsense, there is no evidence that Abraham set foot in Mecca. Mount Sinai has nothing to do with Mecca

the verses are talking about two people in arabia.it did not mention Makkah but Makkah too is in arabia.so the idea that these two figures are alien to arabia is not true.

LagosShia:

sometimes i wonder if your parents ever flog you.you sound like a spoilt brat.

which more knowledge are you talking about? the one in the bible i can also read? or may be you too buy the christian propaganda of the "gift of holy spirit" to understand the bible?



the verses are talking about two people in arabia.it did not mention Makkah but Makkah too is in arabia.so the idea that these two figures are alien to arabia is not true.

lol

Mount Sinai = Egypt

Paran = Egypt

Sorry, no Abraham in Mecca. It is only desperate people that use Paran to mean the wilderness of Mecca

MacDaddy01:

lol

Mount Sinai = Egypt

Paran = Egypt

Sorry, no Abraham in Mecca. It is only desperate people that use Paran to mean the wilderness of Mecca

i wont even bother to bring secular or archaeological or scientific evidence of where paran is.the christian link you presented says Hagar and Ishmael never stepped foot in arabia.

but this is exactly (word for word) what the bible states:

Galatians 4:25
"Now Hagar stands for [b]Mount Sinai in Arabia [/b]and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children".

do you know how to read? if so,do you see the bible says "Mount Sinai in Arabia"? i do not care about what you think.i am going according to the bible to refute the lying christian website you're using to argue.

LagosShia:

i wont even bother to bring secular or archaeological or scientific evidence of where paran is.the christian link you presented says Hagar and Ishmael never stepped foot in arabia.

but this is exactly (word for word) what the bible states:

Galatians 4:25
"Now Hagar stands for [b]Mount Sinai in Arabia [/b]and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children".

do you know how to read? if so,do you see the bible says "Mount Sinai in Arabia"? i do not care about what you think.i am going according to the bible to refute the lying christian website you're using to argue.

Lol but Mount Sinia is in egypt!!! That is a fact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Sinai


Furthermore, maps get Fragmented! Arabia could have included Egypt as well at time!

MacDaddy01:


Lol but Mount Sinia is in egypt!!! That is a fact. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Sinai


Furthermore, maps get Fragmented! Arabia could have included Egypt as well at time!

tell that to the christians you're depending on their knowledge and bible about Ishmael and Hagar,if you believe Mount Sinai is in Egypt.

i wont help you out on this.you should find out where Mount Sinai really is.

LagosShia:

tell that to the christians you're depending on their knowledge and bible about Ishmael and Hagar,if you believe Mount Sinai is in Egypt.

i wont help you out on this.you should find out where Mount Sinai really is.

I just showed you the fact where mount Sinai is and you are still arguing?


Lmao.....LagosShia cant take it. This is the problem that comes with believing that a book is perfect when reality opposes it, you deny reality to support the book

MacDaddy01:


I just showed you the fact where mount Sinai is and you are still arguing?


Lmao.....LagosShia cant take it. This is the problem that comes with believing that a book is perfect when reality opposes it, you deny reality to support the book

are you trying to play dumb or smart

i am not seeking to know where Mount Sinai is.i am pointing out where Mount Sinai is according to the bible your christian brothers are using and you depended on for knowledge.

now you should find out where exactly Mount Sinai is according to both the bible and secular sources,and also where the Wilderness of Paran is.

LagosShia:

are you trying to play dumb or smart

i am not seeking to know where Mount Sinai is.i am pointing out where Mount Sinai is according to the bible your christian brothers are using and you depended on for knowledge.

now you should find out where exactly Mount Sinai is according to both the bible and secular sources,and also where the Wilderness of Paran is.

Whether you use the bible or you use common sense, mount Sinai is not in Mecca. End of story


Abraham never went to Mecca and there is no historical evidence for Abraham at all. Yet, Muhammad is the desencendant of Abraham and Abraham built the kaba.

Relaity does not support you.

MacDaddy01:

Whether you use the bible or you use common sense, mount Sinai is not in Mecca. End of story


Abraham never went to Mecca and there is no historical evidence for Abraham at all. Yet, Muhammad is the desencendant of Abraham and Abraham built the kaba.

Relaity does not support you.

about Abraham and the Ka'bah in particular,let me first bring to your notice that in the bible Hagar,the mother of Ishamel,who we believe along with his father Abraham rebuilt the ka'ba and placed the black stone is mentioned to have being in arabia.

Galatians 4:25
Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
(note that the above verse cannot be taken figuratively as the christian would speculate because Hagar is not from arabia but from egypt).so if really Hagar (as) was in arabia,why do you find it hard to believe Abraham stepped foot in Makkah?

here is even more explicit verse regarding the "wilderness of Paran" which is Arabia:

Genesis 21:20-21 (KJV) “And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.”

and you can read here for archaelogical finding that mount sinai is actually in saudi arabia (note that the israelites according to the bible are said to have roamed the desert for years.that could only be in arabia):

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/mt__sinai_found.htm
http://antipas.net/15faq.htm


read about Paran (Faran in arabic):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_of_Paran

Numbers 10:12
Then the Israelites set out from the Desert of Sinai and traveled from place to place until the cloud came to rest in the Desert of Paran.


In Surah 3:96, Makkah (refered to as Mecca) is given the name Bakkah:
Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah), full of blessing, and a guidance for Al-`Alamin (the mankind and jinns).

The Bible, in Psalm 84:5,6, mentions the valley of Baca:
Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage. As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs: the autumn rains also cover it with pools. (NIV)

furthermore we read about Paran (arabia) in the bible:

Numbers 10:12 (KJV) “And the children of Israel took their journeys out of the wilderness of Sinai; and the cloud rested in the wilderness of Paran.”

Numbers 13:1-3 (KJV)
“And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Send thou men, that they may search the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel: of every tribe of their fathers shall ye send a man, every one a ruler among them. And Moses by the commandment of the LORD sent them from the wilderness of Paran: all those men were heads of the children of Israel.”


Habakkuk 3:3
God came from Teman, the Holy One from [b]Mount Paran. Selah His glory covered the heavens and his praise filled the earth.[/b]
(we know that the first revelation that descended upon Muhammad (sa) was in a cave called hira in a mountain known as Jabal an-Nur in Makkah).

Pilgrimage of Prophet Ezekiel (mentioned in the bible) to Makkah:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ezekiel_pilgrimage.htm

LagosShia:


about Abraham and the Ka'bah in particular,let me first bring to your notice that in the bible Hagar,the mother of Ishamel,who we believe along with his father Abraham rebuilt the ka'ba and placed the black stone is mentioned to have being in arabia.

Galatians 4:25
Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
(note that the above verse cannot be taken figuratively as the christian would speculate because Hagar is not from arabia but from egypt).so if really Hagar (as) was in arabia,why do you find it hard to believe Abraham stepped foot in Makkah?

here is even more explicit verse regarding the "wilderness of Paran" which is Arabia:

Genesis 21:20-21 (KJV) “And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.”

and you can read here for archaelogical finding that mount sinai is actually in saudi arabia (note that the israelites according to the bible are said to have roamed the desert for years.that could only be in arabia):

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/mt__sinai_found.htm
http://antipas.net/15faq.htm


read about Paran (Faran in arabic):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_of_Paran

Numbers 10:12
Then the Israelites set out from the Desert of Sinai and traveled from place to place until the cloud came to rest in the Desert of Paran.


In Surah 3:96, Makkah (refered to as Mecca) is given the name Bakkah:
Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah), full of blessing, and a guidance for Al-`Alamin (the mankind and jinns).

The Bible, in Psalm 84:5,6, mentions the valley of Baca:
Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage. As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs: the autumn rains also cover it with pools. (NIV)

furthermore we read about Paran (arabia) in the bible:

Numbers 10:12 (KJV) “And the children of Israel took their journeys out of the wilderness of Sinai; and the cloud rested in the wilderness of Paran.”

Numbers 13:1-3 (KJV)
“And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Send thou men, that they may search the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel: of every tribe of their fathers shall ye send a man, every one a ruler among them. And Moses by the commandment of the LORD sent them from the wilderness of Paran: all those men were heads of the children of Israel.”


Habakkuk 3:3
God came from Teman, the Holy One from [b]Mount Paran. Selah His glory covered the heavens and his praise filled the earth.[/b]
(we know that the first revelation that descended upon Muhammad (sa) was in a cave called hira in a mountain known as Jabal an-Nur in Makkah).

Pilgrimage of Prophet Ezekiel (mentioned in the bible) to Makkah:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ezekiel_pilgrimage.htm

There is no historical evidence for Abraham. You are free to google it. There is not one shred of evidence that Abraham built the Kaaba.


lol....its not my fault that you believe in myths

MacDaddy01:



There is no historical evidence for Abraham. You are free to google it. There is not one shred of evidence that Abraham built the Kaaba.


lol....its not my fault that you believe in myths

is the Quran considered an historical document? is the bible considered an historical document?

are the oral traditions passed from father to son in pre-islamic arabia,historical evidence? if these all point to Abraham,then why are they not historical enough for the atheist? or you choose what you tag historical and what you reject as historical? as for me,it is not any other text that judges the Quran,but it is the Quran that judges everything and confirms the truthfulness of all else.if you do not like that,slap yourself.

LagosShia:

is the Quran considered an historical document? is the bible considered an historical document?

are the oral traditions passed from father to son in pre-islamic arabia,historical evidence? if these all point to Abraham,then why are they not historical enough for the atheist? or you choose what you tag historical and what you reject as historical? as for me,it is not any other text that judges the Quran,but it is the Quran that judges everything and confirms the truthfulness of all else.if you do not like that,slap yourself.

Ask any catholic priest or educated pastor and they will tell you that the bible is not a 100% factual historical record. eIt has some history but a large part of the bible is not hostoric. Jews were never enslaved by Egyptians contradictory to what the old testament says.There is no historical record or evidence to show that egyptians enslaved Jews


By that alone, it renders part of of the Quran as untrue.

Adam and Eve is not historical. The first people were from Africa and not the middle east.

MacDaddy01:


Ask any catholic priest or educated pastor and they will tell you that the bible is not a 100% factual historical record. eIt has some history but a large part of the bible is not hostoric. Jews were never enslaved by Egyptians contradictory to what the old testament says.There is no historical record or evidence to show that egyptians enslaved Jews


By that alone, it renders part of of the Quran as untrue.

Adam and Eve is not historical. The first people were from Africa and not the middle east.

ok-the usual atheist cherry-picking just like in evolution too.

so now can you prove all what you have counter-claimed? no!

you have issues.may God help you.

LagosShia:

ok-the usual atheist cherry-picking just like in evolution too.

so now can you prove all what you have counter-claimed? no!

you have issues.may God help you.

See this ignoramus....it is you that has no evidence.


No historical evidence for Abraham;
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/print/features/world/asia/israel/abraham-text


First humans from Africa;
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0216_050216_omo.html

MacDaddy01:

The time before the prophet? Is the Quran endorsing paganism because that was was existed in West Africa before Muhammed

Let me restate the points made b4 so we don't go in circles:

vedaxcool: ^

1. The verse speaks of a time b4 d prophet pbuh!

2. Furthermore the Qur'an speaks of how people deviated from the path that messengers past brought to their people!

vedaxcool:

Let me restate the points made b4 so we don't go in circles:

Your points are quite nonsensical. How do they answer the question?

^

I'm sorry, I can only show u the stream it is left to u to drink from it! More so u have not really showed how the points do not answer ur question! Rational discourse is a two way street!

MacDaddy01:

See this ignoramus....it is you that has no evidence.


No historical evidence for Abraham;
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/print/features/world/asia/israel/abraham-text


First humans from Africa;
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0216_050216_omo.html

so now you even deny that Abraham (as) existed.lol

i thought the christians and jews have better knowledge about Abraham.dont you think they also have better knowledge about Abraham than atheists? why dont you believe them that Abraham (as) existed?

besides,the links you posted are also not historical enough for me and nonsense.

evidence for the oldest human presence in africa still doesn't mean humans did not live elsewhere that time or those in africa were not created by God.you know atheists are crooks.they used fake fossils to support evolution,i think in the case of "lucy".

also,Abraham is historical because of the people who descended from him-both jews who trace their ancestry to Isaac and Arabians through Ishmael.

after perhaps another 2000 years,atheists would claim Muhammad (sa) isn't historical.dont forget like the jews and arabians,we also have the "sayyids" who are descendants of Muhammad (sa) up to this day.and even if we humans are around on this earth for another 2000 years,the "sayyids" would also be around.