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One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims - Religion - Nairaland

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One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by MacDaddy01: 5:23am On Aug 28, 2012
Have you noticed that when you debate with christians, they use their bibles and church doctrines to argue? The focus of the argument mainly stays on christianity.

Try this with muslims here on Nairaland, and the muslims will bring up negative things christianity and judaism. This baffles me as an atheist. What kind of logic is this? When pushed to the wall with reasonable arguments, one would rush to say "but christians did it too"


This tactic weakens me and betrays a conscious disingenuity on the part of the NL muslims that do this.


A few examples;

-Burkha argument'
"what about nuns"
"what about mary in the bible"

-Death for apostacy
"In christian America, there is capital punishment for treason, apostacy and speaking against islam is treasonous"

-Cousin Marriage permitted by Quran
"European Kings used to marry their cousins"
"Some states in America do not prohibit cousin marriage"

etc
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by killuminati(m): 7:09am On Aug 28, 2012
Disagreed undecided
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by MacDaddy01: 7:27am On Aug 28, 2012
killuminati: Disagreed undecided



wow, what an insightful comment and decent rebuttal angry
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by Avicenna: 8:47am On Aug 28, 2012
Woooaaaahhhh

One more...

What's faith in Islam?
The christian faith is irrational but #links to website# the arabic word for faith/belief is very different, English cannot do justice to the intricate...........

Ya, right!
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by MacDaddy01: 10:30am On Aug 28, 2012
Avicenna: Woooaaaahhhh

One more...

What's faith in Islam?
The christian faith is irrational but #links to website# the arabic word for faith/belief is very different, English cannot do justice to the intricate...........

Ya, right!

Lmao! Thats a good one! I have come across that failed argument twice! wink
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by Nimshi: 1:17pm On Aug 28, 2012
The challenge for Muslims could be one of many:

1) there're many other sources for Islamic teachings other than the Quran

2) these other sources, including the hadith, and more important, the Sunna, are quite varied, chaotic, and many times unreliable

3) many Muslims just give up, and would rather listen to rousing speeches by Imam or the rector at the local mosque

4) Imams/local mosque rectors are not immune to itme #2)

5) victims of the rote learning of the Quran: being able to quote the Quran in Arabic is usually perceived by other Muslims as sign of high learning; but this is almost completely useless for engaging in discussions where you're not working the crowd

6) it must be admitted: even the Quran isn't an easy book to read: the accounts are not arranged chronoligically, and it is frankly usually a boring read

7) er, hmnn . . . some of the practices are downright nasty and difficult to support (niqab, death for any number of minor infractions, mutilations, hatred for a certain pet animal . . . etc etc). At least Christianity has Jesus, who to some extent reformed the Jewish tribal god, Yahweh; Islam has no equivalent of that; this is a big problem . . .

8') and, well, there's that thing with Sunni & Shia muslims; if the questioner knows about it, then it's already too much of a problem . . .

9) many of the Muslims here are lazy; not ready to do the hard work, and not ready to mount a robust defence of their favourite middle eastern religion

of course, there're certainly many more

Now: It's surprising that 'cousin marriage' couldn't be discussed/defended . . . Ref #9, perhaps

.

1 Like

Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by Sweetnecta: 2:17pm On Aug 28, 2012
@Avicenna:
by Avicenna: 8:47am
Woooaaaahhhh

One more...

What's faith in Islam?
The christian faith is irrational but #links to website# the arabic word for faith/belief is very different, English cannot do justice to the intricate...........

Ya, right!
Tell me, is there any life preservation of self or humanity avoiding excessive abuse from evildoer or abuser in "Turning the other cheek"?

You are a yoruba man, give me the meaning of Avicenna in Ede ibile, if you are smart.

Give me the English word that will mean exactly any of these yoruba words: Oduduwa, Bajulaye, Itaganran, Ojude oba, Kaiyesi, Ikubabayeye, Gbangba, Ojuolomooto, Idiileke, etc. Choose any authentic Yoruba word and give me the full expression in English and let the yorubas on Nairaland critique it to see if omo yoruba gangan nie to mo oro ibile.

If you have "Epic fail" {good morning mr mcdadday01 who will be lost in the make of yoruba maze i put his atheist comrade in] in this imagine how it is a greater epic fail it is to do justice to The Word of Allah in Arabic when He did not reveal it in English.


So all your being an imam, you do not know that the arabs have to study Quranic arabic? I am going to sing Ojuelega of Fela. Can you tell me what Ojuelegba is in English?
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by MacDaddy01: 2:42pm On Aug 28, 2012
Nimshi: The challenge for Muslims could be one of many:

1) there're many other sources for Islamic teachings other than the Quran
2) these other sources, including the hadith, and more important, the Sunna, are quite varied, chaotic, and many times unreliable
3) many Muslims just give up, and would rather listen to rousing speeches by Imam or the rector at the local mosque
4) Imams/local mosque rectors are not immune to itme #2)
5) victims of the rote learning of the Quran: being able to quote the Quran in Arabic is usually perceived by other Muslims as sign of high learning; but this is almost completely useless for engaging in discussions where you're not working the crowd
6) it must be admitted: even the Quran isn't an easy book to read: the accounts are not arranged chronoligically, and it is frankly usually a boring read
7) er, hmnn . . . some of the practices are downright nasty and difficult to support (niqab, death for any number of minor infractions, mutilations, hatred for a certain pet animal . . . etc etc). At least Christianity has Jesus, who to some extent reformed the Jewish tribal god, Yahweh; Islam has no equivalent of that; this is a big problem . . .
8') and, well, there's that thing with Sunni & Shia muslims; if the questioner knows about it, then it's already too much of a problem . . .
9) many of the Muslims here are lazy; not ready to do the hard work, and not ready to mount a robust defence of their favourite middle eastern religion


of course, there're certainly many more

Now: It's surprising that 'cousin marriage' couldn't be discussed/defended . . . Ref #9, perhaps



Wow, you explained some major challenges of muslims.


I think that unlike many modern christians, many muslims take the Quran to be 100% true.
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by Sweetnecta: 3:24pm On Aug 28, 2012
@Macdaddy01;
by MacDaddy01: 5:23am
Have you noticed that when you debate with christians, they use their bibles and church doctrines to argue?
Excluding OT, the full NT where it negates their church doctrines, Truth and Jesus and opted for Paul.


The focus of the argument mainly stays on christianity.
Dogma does has its fault that the one in it does not see; ignorance so that is not always any truth in it except blind belief. For example the Bible says in OT God is 1. Jesus is said to have declared God is his Master and God is 1. God on the lips of Jesus is Ellah so much so that the jews said he was calling Elias, so God on the lips of Jesus was not me, holy spirit, Yahweh, Jehovah or I AM. same Jesus was slave of Ellah according to his disciples is now God himself according to latter day saint Paul who Bamboozled the people to accept, unwillingly since Jesus said they were "oh you of little faith" even toward the end of his ministry. Think. I know you are an atheist.


Try this with muslims here on Nairaland, and the muslims will bring up negative things christianity and judaism. This baffles me as an atheist. What kind of logic is this? When pushed to the wall with reasonable arguments, one would rush to say "but christians did it too"
You are so naive in the bold. Reasonable argument should have convinced you if you have a sound mind. Saying Christianity or earlier group, Judaism did this or that too is to point to you that even with their warped belief, there are somethings that we share as people of faith.


This tactic weakens me and betrays a conscious disingenuity on the part of the NL muslims that do this.
Here you are darn Godless and mindless heartless person complaining that we have to compromise with you. You look around and in the bible and coming to Quran you see that Muslims argue in a natural form; saying that evil people can claim to be people of faith, and what you see as evil in Quran is simply human reaction to evil. Only a fool and suicidal man will offer his other cheek to Mike Tyson in his hay days. Only ignorant and arrogant racist will say that God belongs to his family and no other family can come to be a people of God regardless of them being pious about the Orders of God.



A few examples;

-Burkha argument'
"what about nuns"
"what about mary in the bible"
Is any of these a lie, you atheist guy? Epic fail.


-Death for apostacy
"In christian America, there is capital punishment for treason, apostacy and speaking against islam is treasonous"
Even the leader of the free world has justice for unjust people. See?


-Cousin Marriage permitted by Quran
"European Kings used to marry their cousins"
"Some states in America do not prohibit cousin marriage"

etc
Is that not a reality for you to see? I know your elevator does not really get to the top?
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by PastorAIO: 3:46pm On Aug 28, 2012
Sweetnecta: @Avicenna:

in this imagine how it is a greater epic fail it is to do justice to The Word of Allah in Arabic when He did not reveal it in English.


can you speak arabic? If it cannot be translated to english or yoruba and these are the only languages you speak then it follows that you do not understand and cannot 'do justice to the word of allah'. If you understand it (with you yoruba brain) then you should have no problem explaining it through your yoruba brain in the yoruba language.

1st question) . . . Oduduwa = Odu ti o da iwa = Odu that creates being. Odu is the yoruba Goddess that births all that exists.
.
.
.
.

Ojuelegba = the face/presence of Elegba. Elegba is the deity of the Crossroads in yoruba. Ojuelegba is a typical name given to a major crossroads.

As long as yoruba language is rooted in human experience then it can be translated to another human language, where there are difficulties those difficulties can be surmounted by explaining the context (cultural or geographical) of the word.

3 Likes

Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by Sweetnecta: 4:00pm On Aug 28, 2012
@Nimshi:
by Nimshi: 1:17pm
The challenge for Muslims could be one of many:

1) there're many other sources for Islamic teachings other than the Quran

2) these other sources, including the hadith, and more important, the Sunna, are quite varied, chaotic, and many times unreliable

3) many Muslims just give up, and would rather listen to rousing speeches by Imam or the rector at the local mosque

4) Imams/local mosque rectors are not immune to itme #2)

5) victims of the rote learning of the Quran: being able to quote the Quran in Arabic is usually perceived by other Muslims as sign of high learning; but this is almost completely useless for engaging in discussions where you're not working the crowd

6) it must be admitted: even the Quran isn't an easy book to read: the accounts are not arranged chronoligically, and it is frankly usually a boring read

7) er, hmnn . . . some of the practices are downright nasty and difficult to support (niqab, death for any number of minor infractions, mutilations, hatred for a certain pet animal . . . etc etc). At least Christianity has Jesus, who to some extent reformed the Jewish tribal god, Yahweh; Islam has no equivalent of that; this is a big problem . . .

8') and, well, there's that thing with Sunni & Shia muslims; if the questioner knows about it, then it's already too much of a problem . . .

9) many of the Muslims here are lazy; not ready to do the hard work, and not ready to mount a robust defence of their favourite middle eastern religion

of course, there're certainly many more
I any of the above a proof that Islam is not 100% from God? Do you believe in God and that He has revealed a pattern, a religion not religions for man in a Book?



Now: It's surprising that 'cousin marriage' couldn't be discussed/defended . . . Ref #9, perhaps
I discussed it and continue to. I don't find anything wrong with it for those who do it. I dont because I am a hawk, not shy and never been intimidated by woman. I dont like turkey or lamb. But its permissible so I dont find it wrong for those who eat them.
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by MyJoe: 4:12pm On Aug 28, 2012
Sweetnecta:
I discussed it and continue to. I don't find anything wrong with it for those who do it. I dont because I am a hawk, not shy and never been intimidated by woman. I dont like turkey or lamb. But its permissible so I dont find it wrong for those who eat them.
Yeah. I wonder why cousin marriage being permitted by the Quran or by anyone should be an issue with the MacDaddy or for anyone.
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by MacDaddy01: 4:17pm On Aug 28, 2012
Sweetnecta: @Macdaddy01; Excluding OT, the full NT where it negates their church doctrines, Truth and Jesus and opted for Paul.


Dogma does has its fault that the one in it does not see; ignorance so that is not always any truth in it except blind belief. For example the Bible says in OT God is 1. Jesus is said to have declared God is his Master and God is 1. God on the lips of Jesus is Ellah so much so that the jews said he was calling Elias, so God on the lips of Jesus was not me, holy spirit, Yahweh, Jehovah or I AM. same Jesus was slave of Ellah according to his disciples is now God himself according to latter day saint Paul who Bamboozled the people to accept, unwillingly since Jesus said they were "oh you of little faith" even toward the end of his ministry. Think. I know you are an atheist.


You are so naive in the bold. Reasonable argument should have convinced you if you have a sound mind. Saying Christianity or earlier group, Judaism did this or that too is to point to you that even with their warped belief, there are somethings that we share as people of faith.


Here you are darn Godless and mindless heartless person complaining that we have to compromise with you. You look around and in the bible and coming to Quran you see that Muslims argue in a natural form; saying that evil people can claim to be people of faith, and what you see as evil in Quran is simply human reaction to evil. Only a fool and suicidal man will offer his other cheek to Mike Tyson in his hay days. Only ignorant and arrogant racist will say that God belongs to his family and no other family can come to be a people of God regardless of them being pious about the Orders of God.



Is any of these a lie, you atheist guy? Epic fail.


Even the leader of the free world has justice for unjust people. See?


Is that not a reality for you to see? I know your elevator does not really get to the top?




You seriously need an education. You see no problem with using two wrongs to argue a right.
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by MacDaddy01: 4:17pm On Aug 28, 2012
Pastor AIO:


can you speak arabic? If it cannot be translated to english or yoruba and these are the only languages you speak then it follows that you do not understand and cannot 'do justice to the word of allah'. If you understand it (with you yoruba brain) then you should have no problem explaining it through your yoruba brain in the yoruba language.

1st question) . . . Oduduwa = Odu ti o da iwa = Odu that creates being. Odu is the yoruba Goddess that births all that exists.
.
.
.
.

Ojuelegba = the face/presence of Elegba. Elegba is the deity of the Crossroads in yoruba. Ojuelegba is a typical name given to a major crossroads.

As long as yoruba language is rooted in human experience then it can be translated to another human language, where there are difficulties those difficulties can be surmounted by explaining the context (cultural or geographical) of the word.


Epic sir, just epic!
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by Avicenna: 8:22pm On Aug 28, 2012
Sweetnecta: @Avicenna: Tell me, is there any life preservation of self or humanity avoiding excessive abuse from evildoer or abuser in "Turning the other cheek"?

You are a yoruba man, give me the meaning of Avicenna in Ede ibile, if you are smart.

Give me the English word that will mean exactly any of these yoruba words: Oduduwa, Bajulaye, Itaganran, Ojude oba, Kaiyesi, Ikubabayeye, Gbangba, Ojuolomooto, Idiileke, etc. Choose any authentic Yoruba word and give me the full expression in English and let the yorubas on Nairaland critique it to see if omo yoruba gangan nie to mo oro ibile.

If you have "Epic fail" {good morning mr mcdadday01 who will be lost in the make of yoruba maze i put his atheist comrade in] in this imagine how it is a greater epic fail it is to do justice to The Word of Allah in Arabic when He did not reveal it in English.


So all your being an imam, you do not know that the arabs have to study Quranic arabic? I am going to sing Ojuelega of Fela. Can you tell me what Ojuelegba is in English?

This mallam na funny dudegrin

First, you said I was never a muslim. OK
Now, I'm not a Yoruba!
I don't even exist sef. Whatever.

I don't know what you mean by turning the other cheek. That's not my philosophy. Na U sabi.

I particurlarly had a good laugh at ikubabayeye. Na so you fear death?grin

E mon nkan to shele? Mi o raye eyi. Nkan to ba wu yin ni ke so.

Faith-Igbagbo.(Belief). Idiileke,hahahahahah.gringrin
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by Sweetnecta: 10:01pm On Aug 28, 2012
^ I am not afraid of death. I am concern about my destiny, if I have done enough since I do not merit anything.

I am sure that Igbagbo will not be faith to every yoruba person.

So that you know, I do not get bugged down with whatever anyone does with his life. As i remind you, I also remind myself.

I never said you were never a muslim. But to say Allahu Akbar is authentically the last word/expression of muslims gives me the window that your knowledge of Islam is not really sound: The messenger [sa] says whosoever says Laa ilaha ilAllah as his last word will definitely enter Jannah.


There is no place that Allahu Akbar should be the last statement. So when every muslim goes to bed he/she says Laa ilaha ilAllah.


Actually, I will love to meet you in 9ja and go to your home and break the news to your parents. What do you say?
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by MacDaddy01: 10:02pm On Aug 28, 2012
Sweetnecta: ^ I am not afraid of death. I am concern about my destiny, if I have done enough since I do not merit anything.

I am sure that Igbagbo will not be faith to every yoruba person.

So that you know, I do not get bugged down with whatever anyone does with his life. As i remind you, I also remind myself.

I never said you were never a muslim. But to say Allahu Akbar is authentically the last word/expression of muslims gives me the window that your knowledge of Islam is not really sound: The messenger [sa] says whosoever says Laa ilaha ilAllah as his last word will definitely enter Jannah.


There is no place that Allahu Akbar should be the last statement. So when every muslim goes to bed he/she says Laa ilaha ilAllah.


Actually, I will love to meet you in 9ja and go to your home and break the news to your parents. What do you say?

Always fear and threats with you guys
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by Sweetnecta: 10:37pm On Aug 28, 2012
^^^ If he is not going to man up, it is the roll of Agba to wa loja ko ni je ki ori omo tuntun wo.

@macdaddy01: ask your yoruba atheist comrades to interpret that yoruba statement to you. I cant be bothered with you.
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by Sweetnecta: 10:58pm On Aug 28, 2012
@PastorAIO:
by Pastor AIO: 3:46pm

can you speak arabic?
I understand the Quranic Arabic enough to cry when I recite.



If it cannot be translated to english or yoruba and these are the only languages you speak then it follows that you do not understand and cannot 'do justice to the word of allah'.
Omode nse iwo boy yin. Allah gives me "Knowledge" from Him.



If you understand it (with you yoruba brain) then you should have no problem explaining it through your yoruba brain in the yoruba language.
I did already. The yoruba brain is wired to Arabic root, directly to Ka'aba. When I enter salah my heart is tied to Kaaba right away.



1st question) . . . Oduduwa = Odu ti o da iwa = Odu that creates being. Odu is the yoruba Goddess that births all that exists.
I read this aborisha boy. Iro fo e nifun. You jut ave to turn everything to your opele and ifa mindset. Kuro lono joo.


Ojuelegba = the face/presence of Elegba. Elegba is the deity of the Crossroads in yoruba. Ojuelegba is a typical name given to a major crossroads.
what happen to eye as oju?



As long as yoruba language is rooted in human experience then it can be translated to another human language, where there are difficulties those difficulties can be surmounted by explaining the context (cultural or geographical) of the word.
In your mind your explanation conveys the meaning?
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by MacDaddy01: 11:10pm On Aug 28, 2012
Sweetnecta: ^^^ If he is not going to man up, it is the roll of Agba to wa loja ko ni je ki ori omo tuntun wo.

@macdaddy01: ask your yoruba atheist comrades to interpret that yoruba statement to you. I cant be bothered with you.


tribalist as well?
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by Avicenna: 11:37pm On Aug 28, 2012
MacDaddy01:


tribalist as well?

I laffgringringrin

He wants to play the role of the elder that resolves conflicts. Too bad. He's not needed.

@Sweetnecta
I NEVER said the proper recommended last words is Allahu Akbar. Even worse, my Grandmother may be in hell because she didn't utter the correct words at the most scary moment of her life.
Zap Allah for that. I regret nothing. No more insha Allah. No more bismilahi ramoni rahim before eating, No more Alhamdullilahi.
no more nightly recitations of surahs. No more anything Islamic. I m far gone , you see.

This morning, I really felt to tone it down but with people like you, we are just beginning.

I regret Nothing I said.
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by Avicenna: 11:38pm On Aug 28, 2012
And who said Zap


I said FU/CK
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by Avicenna: 11:44pm On Aug 28, 2012
And I don't want to meet you.


angry

My Quranic knowledge In practice is as strong as yours.
I may not speak any arabic but I know enough to leave.

I will endeavour once I'm set, to free ALL my family. I don't care WHAT it will cost. You hear me?

Yo yan yin lenu.
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by vislabraye(m): 12:39am On Aug 29, 2012
Christians received the message of Christ without coersion. True followers of Jesus are not violent. Even my faith is insulted, it won't be taken personally. The author of my faith can defend himself.
I can't believe anyone is an atheist especially in Africa. Then you need a miracle.
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by tpia5: 3:34am On Aug 29, 2012
the main reason why debating with christians is more rewarding than debating with muslims is because with christians, you dont get banned when you run wild.
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by CrazyMan(m): 3:56am On Aug 29, 2012
tpia@:
the main reason why debating with christians is more rewarding than debating with muslims is because with christians, you don't get banned when you run wild.
That's exactly what the first poster pointed out. They have no defense to make concerning their religion.

Most of them call themselves muslims but they can't endure a 30minutes debate against their religion.

Majority of them read the koran like a software license they just scroll down all the numerous pages and click I agree.

Funny isn't it? That's why its very easy for their leaders to brainwash them into believing that if you kill an innocent man who doesn't believe in islam, you would be rewarded with 7 virgins. Because majority of aren't deeply rooted.
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by tpia5: 4:26am On Aug 29, 2012
^i meant it exactly as i typed it actually.

in the christian section, you can run wild while in muslim section, you are banned if you do so.

1 Like

Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by CrazyMan(m): 4:39am On Aug 29, 2012
tpia@:
^i meant it exactly as i typed it actually.

in the christian section, you can run wild while in muslim section, you are banned if you do so.
I guess the boko haram menace isn't just in the north, but exist in every muslim. I'm not surprised.

What do you expect the to do rather than to ban people who asks them sensible questions about their religion?

I just watched a video where I saw a highly respected muslim leader saying on one video that islam is a religion of peace, and in another video countering his the statement he made in the previous video.

Its obvious that from their leaders down to the least person in that religion are confused.

Religion of peace indeed.
Re: One Reason Why Debating With Christians Is More Rewarding Than Muslims by tpia5: 5:01am On Aug 29, 2012
well, my point is people are free to abuse and insult christians as they like [its even encouraged sef]- not so for the muslim section.

that's all.

no need to rope me into you folks' issues- i'm not trying to curry favour with them and neither am i trying to get in the good books of any of you either, whether christian, atheist, traditionalist or muslim.

also, i dont do long arguments about theology.

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