The furor that arose from the 'Innocence of Muslims' movie is what I am talking about.
Why are Muslims all over the world rioting/acting violent over it? Why?
For heaven's sake the movie was produced in Hollywood Carlifornia; USA, and Muslims in Lebanon and Tunisia are protesting and endangering lives of those that live in the areas close to the places they protest. (people have died in Lebanon and Jos police are firing shots to disperse crowds).
Initially when I heard about the security being beefed up in the embassy in Abuja to protect against likely violence, I thought it was just a case of taking things too far and over-reacting and that Muslims in Nigeria would not do anything untoward. Only for me to see news reports this evening saying that Muslims in countries that are in countries thousands of miles away from USA are protesting on the streets and that the situation in some areas had gotten violent.
Don't get me wrong, I hate the contents of the movie and am disgusted at the way the Rasul was potrayed in it, but I think the killing of the ambassador in Libya and the violent protests are too much.
I usually defend Islam from the accusations that it is a violent religion and when things like this happen, it becomes increasingly difficult for me to do that. The whole thing weighs me down.

About the protests; I might be wrong though, I am not even sure if protesting like this is not endorsed in Islam considering the fact that so many people are engaged in the protests and I wanted to know what Muslims are supposed to do in a situation like this. Should there be protests by Muslims all over the world? I am 100% sure that the killing/violence is wrong, but I don't know what the required Islamic reaction should be.
What is it please? What are we supposed to do?

Firstly there is nothing wrong with peaceful protest to show dissatisfaction.

I disagree with your point on violence because the unbelievers like to portray Islam as violent.for God's sake what is Islam? Islam is a set of ideas and beliefs.there isn't anything in them promoting violence.there is justice in Islam and not violence.so if Muslims like let them take the law into their hands and turn the entire earth into a fire ball.and let unbelievers keep nagging in their hypocrisy trying to take advantage of the situation to promote their hate,I won't blink an eye.unbelievers are the ones offending others with rudeness and then very quick to complain about the reaction to what they sow.

Those who killed the ambassador in libya are wrong.but honestly whatever befalls the US,I'm not sympathetic to it because of its ugly record against muslims.I only feel sorry for the ambassador.come to think of it,the ambassador actually was killed by "friendly fire".these are the people the US supported to humiliate Qaddafi and drag him through the streets before killing him.Hilary Clinton was celebrating in an interview she was giving when the news reached her (of Qaddafi's murder).the video is on youtube.I'm no fan of Qaddafi but injustice to anyone is wrong.the chaos prevailing in libya (and also syria is) was sponsored by the US,its NATO allies and its arab puppet regimes like saudi arabia and qatar.so don't feel guilty because the US reaped what it sowed.

Another factor why muslims usually go violent is thanks to the inaction of their governments and leaders.the US have reduced many muslims leaders to its slaves and they have no gut to oppose the US because they fear for their posts.the US could sponsor internal opposition against them to destabilize their rule or could strip them of legitimacy through politics on the international stage.take for instance a few months ago when saudi arabia withdrew its ambassador from egypt,a fellow muslim and arab country because the saudi royal family was "insulted".now ask yourself why has saudi arabia not withdraw its ambassador from the US to protest against the insulting movie (against the Prophet s.a)? So the inaction of governments lead the people to more anger.protests must be peaceful but when the people are too angry to control anything can happen.

In algeria for instance I saw a picture of their protests outside the US embassy.algerian men were literally urinating on the wall of the US embassy.that's their own form of protest and can be seen as violence free.if governments would act in countries muslims inhabit to expel the US ambassador or recall their ambassador in the US and cut diplomatic ties,the people to a large extent would feel relieved and sense their government is sensitive to their pain.but ofcourse when you have US slaves everywhere protecting US interests,the people are pushed to the wall and they even end up being shot by their own security forces during protests.I'm not supporting or justifying violence,I'm only trying to explain and analyze the situation based on what you asked.

fellis: The furor that arose from the 'Innocence of Muslims' movie is what I am talking about.
Why are Muslims all over the world rioting/acting violent over it? Why?
For heaven's sake the movie was produced in Hollywood Carlifornia; USA, and Muslims in Lebanon and Tunisia are protesting and endangering lives of those that live in the areas close to the places they protest. (people have died in Lebanon and Jos police are firing shots to disperse crowds).
Initially when I heard about the security being beefed up in the embassy in Abuja to protect against likely violence, I thought it was just a case of taking things too far and over-reacting and that Muslims in Nigeria would not do anything untoward. Only for me to see news reports this evening saying that Muslims in countries that are in countries thousands of miles away from USA are protesting on the streets and that the situation in some areas had gotten violent.
Don't get me wrong, I hate the contents of the movie and am disgusted at the way the Rasul was potrayed in it, but I think the killing of the ambassador in Libya and the violent protests are too much.
I usually defend Islam from the accusations that it is a violent religion and when things like this happen, it becomes increasingly difficult for me to do that. The whole thing weighs me down.

About the protests; I might be wrong though, I am not even sure if protesting like this is not endorsed in Islam considering the fact that so many people are engaged in the protests and I wanted to know what Muslims are supposed to do in a situation like this. Should there be protests by Muslims all over the world? I am 100% sure that the killing/violence is wrong, but I don't know what the required Islamic reaction should be.
What is it please? What are we supposed to do?

@Fellis. What we should do is protest through appropriate channels without endangering the lives of innocent bystanders. Whilst governments that have Islam as their primary base put diplomatic pressure on the government under whose jurisdiction this disgusting video was allowed to circulate.

As for the violence and loss of lives, it has several causes. Some of which are:

1. Mob mentality which has little to do with Islam.

2. Deep-rooted bitterness towards America in the Muslim world.

3. A sizeable number of Muslims who don't understand the true teachings of Islam.

4. Unwanted and self-serving modern imperialism by America and the West that means that hundreds of thousands of Muslims have been killed by their forces leavng bitter orphans and relatives that may become extremists. Please view the video posted here http://coolstuff49ja..com/2012/09/video-american-legacy-in-iraq.html?m=1 (Sorry, I am on my mobile ).

You don't need to get too depressed over it. Sad as they are, these occurrences are symptoms of global inequity and injustice that you may not be able to do much about.

What you're supposed to do is identify the enemies of islam on nl so we can all know who they are.

LagosShia: Firstly there is nothing wrong with peaceful protest to show dissatisfaction.

Ok. But considering the fact that quite a number of Muslims are just lazy and uneducated people that want to enter paradise without doing any work, some people are likely to decide to turn the peaceful protests into a violent, bloody one so that they can be quickly killed and end up in Paradise for participating in 'Jihad', so I don't know. . . .do you still think that protests are advisable?

LagosShia:
I disagree with your point on violence because the unbelievers like to portray Islam as violent.for God's sake what is Islam? Islam is a set of ideas and beliefs.there isn't anything in them promoting violence.there is justice in Islam and not violence.so if Muslims like let them take the law into their hands and turn the entire earth into a fire ball.and let unbelievers keep nagging in their hypocrisy trying to take advantage of the situation to promote their hate,I won't blink an eye.

Neither will I, but you have to admit that some Muslims give the unbelievers reason to call them violent by taking things overboard sometimes. I don't believe that the situation is as violent as media is reporting it to be though, but I doubt that Muslims are entirely innocent in the matter. We have bad eggs among us.

LagosShia:


Those who killed the ambassador in libya are wrong.but honestly whatever befalls the US,I'm not sympathetic to it because of its ugly record against muslims.I only feel sorry for the ambassador.come to think of it,the ambassador actually was killed by "friendly fire".

Is that so? I thought he was killed by rocket attack on his car.

LagosShia: I'm no fan of Qaddafi but injustice to anyone is wrong.the chaos prevailing in libya (and also syria is) was sponsored by the US,its NATO allies and its arab puppet regimes like saudi arabia and qatar.so don't feel guilty because the US reaped what it sowed.

I don't feel guilty, just upset that Muslims who have nothing to do with the violent uprisings that are recorded in some countries are made to bear the blame for the actions of the bad ones.
I think (though I might be wrong) that the rebels that brought Qaddafi down are the same ones that are responsible for the violence in Libya (the wahabi scum, lmao) and that they are now turning to bite the hand that fed and nurtured them and supplied them with weapons, so in a way the US is responsible for the death of the ambassador guy, but that's beside the point. A lot of non-Muslims don't bother about the way events unfold. The minute they see a Muslim country with some violence taking place in it, they lump all Muslims together as violent killers and the hostility and hatred for Muslims increases. That is what I feel bad/depressed about.

LagosShia:
Another factor why muslims usually go violent is thanks to the inaction of their governments and leaders.the US have reduced many muslims leaders to its slaves and they have no gut to oppose the US because they fear for their posts.the US could sponsor internal opposition against them to destabilize their rule or could strip them of legitimacy through politics on the international stage.take for instance a few months ago when saudi arabia withdrew its ambassador from egypt,a fellow muslim and arab country because the saudi royal family was "insulted".now ask yourself why has saudi arabia not withdraw its ambassador from the US to protest against the insulting movie? So the inaction of governments lead the people to more anger.protests must be peaceful but when the people are too angry to control anything can happen.

Yes, but it still doesn't make violence acceptable. I understand your point fully well, just wish Muslims would put more effort into bringing out the peaceful side of the religion since the world is watching them and expecting violence from them. For instance the corrupt leaders that are in cahoots with the US can be pressured by other Muslim leaders, to take the interests of their citizens to heart, as opposed to the interest of the US, but we are not united enough as Muslims for that to happen.

LagosShia:
In algeria for instance I saw a picture of their protests outside the US embassy.algerian men were literally urinating on the wall of the US embassy.that's their own form of protest and can be seen as violence free.if governments would act in countries muslims inhabit to expel the US ambassador or recall their ambassador in the US and cut diplomatic ties,the people to a large extent would feel relieved and sense their government is sensitive to their pain.but ofcourse when you have US slaves everywhere protecting US interests,the people are pushed to the wall and they even end up being shot by their own security forces during protests.I'm not supporting or justifying violence,I'm only trying to explain and analyze the situation based on what you asked.

Crystal clear sir! Thanks for sharing your opinion LagosShia!

maclatunji: @Fellis. What we should do is protest through appropriate channels without endangering the lives of innocent bystanders. Whilst governments that have Islam as their primary base put diplomatic pressure on the government under whose jurisdiction this disgusting video was allowed to circulate.

I don't know what type of pressure the governments of those countries want to put on the US by letting people protest without first making sure that the protests would not degenerate into violent situations by putting very strict measures in place to keep things peaceful. They should know from history that such a protest is volatile and done more to keep things calm.

maclatunji: As for the violence and loss of lives, it has several causes. Some of which are:

1. Mob mentality which has little to do with Islam.

2. Deep-rooted bitterness towards America in the Muslim world.

3. A sizeable number of Muslims who don't understand the true teachings of Islam.

4. Unwanted and self-serving modern imperialism by America and the West that means that hundreds of thousands of Muslims have been killed by their forces living bitter orphans and relatives that may become extremists. Please view the video posted here http://coolstuff49ja..com/2012/09/video-american-legacy-in-iraq.html?m=1 (Sorry, I am on my mobile ).

True, those four points.
So does this mean there is no end in sight for the violent acts? Especially considering number 4 and the fact that USA is not ready to leave the countries they occupy/sponsor the killing of Muslims anytime soon. Thanks for the video link.

maclatunji:
[b]You don't need to get too depressed over it. Sad as they are, these occurrences are symptoms of global inequity and injustice that you may not be able to do much about.

I know. Just can't help it. I have shouted myself hoarse trying to convince people that Islam is peaceful. When muslims do things like this, the little acheivement you have made by way of convincing others just seems to come crumbling down like a deck of cards.

tpia@:
What you're supposed to do is identify the enemies of islam on nl so we can all know who they are.

Hello tpia, long time no see.

fellis:
Ok. But considering the fact that quite a number of Muslims are just lazy and uneducated people that want to enter paradise without doing any work, some people are likely to decide to turn the peaceful protests into a violent, bloody one so that they can be quickly killed and end up in Paradise for participating in 'Jihad', so I don't know. . . .do you still think that protests are advisable?

Yes I do.

If managed properly and led by respected clerics combined with government pressure on the US,the protest would be peaceful.

Neither will I, but you have to admit that some Muslims give the unbelievers reason to call them violent by taking things overboard sometimes. I don't believe that the situation is as violent as media is reporting it to be though, but I doubt that Muslims are entirely innocent in the matter. We have bad eggs among us.

Ofcourse we do have "bad eggs" among us as you'd find everywhere.

Is that so? I thought he was killed by rocket attack on his car.

I was being sarcastic because those the US helped to power killed the US ambassador.Karma!

I don't feel guilty, just upset that Muslims who have nothing to do with the violent uprisings that are recorded in some countries are made to bear the blame for the actions of the bad ones.
I think (though I might be wrong) that the rebels that brought Qaddafi down are the same ones that are responsible for the violence in Libya (the wahabi scum, lmao) and that they are now turning to bite the hand that fed and nurtured them and supplied them with weapons, so in a way the US is responsible for the death of the ambassador guy, but that's beside the point. A lot of non-Muslims don't bother about the way events unfold. The minute they see a Muslim country with some violence taking place in it, they lump all Muslims together as violent killers and the hostility and hatred for Muslims increases. That is what I feel bad/depressed about.

Remember what the Quran says-you cannot please the jews and christians until you follow their path.so no matter how good muslims are you'd always not be good enogh.

Don't bother yourself and feel depress.just sit back and watch the show.do the little you can to protest online and enlighten people why muslims are offended and religious figures shouldn't be mocked and insulted.

Yes, but it still doesn't make violence acceptable. I understand your point fully well, just wish Muslims would put more effort into bringing out the peaceful side of the religion since the world is watching them and expecting violence from them. For instance the corrupt leaders that are in cahoots with the US can be pressured by other Muslim leaders, to take the interests of their citizens to heart, as opposed to the interest of the US, but we are not united enough as Muslims for that to happen.

The politics is deep.would the US and its puppet ever allow unity in the muslim world? Well,there have hardly being consensus on the truth or what is right.

Crystal clear sir! Thanks for sharing your opinion LagosShia!

You're always welcome

What is all this noise making all about anyways...are mine the only one who have watched this movies..
Angels and Demons
DaVinci Code
Priest(about a gay priest)

gigz31: What is all this noise making all about anyways...are mine the only one who have watched this movies..
Angels and Demons
DaVinci Code
Priest(about a gay priest)

enjoy your ban mister. You don't spew just anything on the muslim section and maybe you didn't know, it's strictly for muslims and even the moderators are muslims.
May the moderators have mercy on your soul.
@topic, I believe strongly in the sanctity of life. Every other thing is secondary. If God can give a man his breathe who am I or what dignity do I get taking it away.
And I believe Allah himself is powerful enough to serve recompense to any blasphemer.
He could choose to make them run mad or worse so why do I need to defend him ?
It's like a little child hellbent on driving his dad. Sure he can try and his intentions are good but still, he'd do a terrible job at it.
I hope this is clear enough mr mac. And this is what I find very disturbing just like fellis.
@fellis longtime no see. I bring greetings from diaryland o. *winks*

#MUHAMMAD | MUSLIM SPOKEN WORD | RESPONSE | HD


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDqnRqTVtCo&feature=player_embedded

While the death of the ambassador is sad and Islamically wrong... The US has no moral high ground here... Thousands of innocent muslims have been killed by disgusting drone strikes and stupid wars... There are threatening to go into Iran now and more innocents will die if they do.

Muslims are not just protesting over movies and cartoons, there is a lot of built in anger and frustration as a result of years of oppression and humiliation.

Allah tells us how to handle these cases in the Quran:

You are sure to be tested through your possessions and persons; you are sure to hear much that is hurtful from those who were given the Scripture before you and from those who associate others with Allah. If you are Patient and mindful of Allah, that is the best course. (Surah 3:186)

We need to have more intelligent responses to these things... write-ups, lawsuits , whatever... Something more creative... Things that will actually affect these idiots....

Burning embassies and flags only help to promote such filth... Definitely not the best approach...

May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon his beloved prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)

Guitarlife:
@topic, I believe strongly in the sanctity of life. Every other thing is secondary. If God can give a man his breathe who am I or what dignity do I get taking it away.
And I believe Allah himself is powerful enough to serve recompense to any blasphemer.
He could choose to make them run mad or worse so why do I need to defend him ?
It's like a little child hellbent on driving his dad. Sure he can try and his intentions are good but still, he'd do a terrible job at it.

Why do you think Muslims fight for God? Nobody can fight for God like you rightly said and we are not mandated to do that either. Muslims fight to defend themselves against oppression and to preserve their dignity and even at that, killing of innocent people is still not allowed. You only fight those that are oppressing you or fighting you back.

Guitarlife:
I hope this is clear enough mr mac. And this is what I find very disturbing just like fellis.

It's not really the 'fighting for God' thing I am worried about but no biggie.

Guitarlife:
@fellis longtime no see. I bring greetings from diaryland o. *winks*

Hm. I haven't been there in a very long time. How una dey na? Hope everyone is well. Say hello to them for me.

tbaba1234: #
While the death of the ambassador is sad and Islamically wrong... The US has no moral high ground here... Thousands of innocent muslims have been killed by disgusting drone strikes and stupid wars... There are threatening to go into Iran now and more innocents will die if they do.

Muslims are not just protesting over movies and cartoons, there is a lot of built in anger and frustration as a result of years of oppression and humiliation.

The guys that produced and promoted the movie are renowned for being very Islamophobic. One of them caused trouble by burning the Quran sometime ago.
The people behind this are not many and if Muslims want to stop them, they can put pressure on relevant authorities to prevent the movie from being broadcast and letting them understand that doing so is crucial to prevent any further trouble. It is straight forward, the Muslims could have put their (peaceful) effort into trying to get the movie banned by talking to those in the country where the movie was made. I think it is only the trailers of the film that are available to watch presently and not the movie itself. Steps could have been taken by Muslims in America to prevent the release of the movie instead of the worldwide protests that are being staged. Also, I understand that there is pent up frustration and anger at the US for their activities of terrorism against Muslims but if Muslims want to speak against that, there are better ways to do so and they ought to address that issue seperately instead of protesting against it while protesting against the movie that was made.

tbaba1234:

Allah tells us how to handle these cases in the Quran:

You are sure to be tested through your possessions and persons; you are sure to hear much that is hurtful from those who were given the Scripture before you and from those who associate others with Allah. If you are Patient and mindful of Allah, that is the best course. (Surah 3:186)

We need to have more intelligent responses to these things... write-ups, lawsuits , whatever... Something more creative... Things that will actually affect these idiots....


Burning embassies and flags only help to promote such filth... Definitely not the best approach...

@bold.
Thank you. You spoke my mind. Peaceful diplomatic talks/negotiations are better than violent protests.

fellis:
Why do you think Muslims fight for God? Nobody can fight for God like you rightly said and we are not mandated to do that either. Muslims fight to defend themselves against oppression and to preserve their dignity and even at that, killing of innocent people is still not allowed. You only fight those that are oppressing you or fighting you back.

It's not really the 'fighting for God' thing I am worried about but no biggie.

Hm. I haven't been there in a very long time. How una dey na? Hope everyone is well. Say hello to them for me.

Two wrongs don't make a right does it ? And your submission clearly negates the stand of Lagosshia up there. If you read succintly his post, he subtly endorses the viloent action calling it justice.
He even believes it is right to cause chaos in the society as long as the gorvernment is culpable.
I don't usually engage muslims in intellectual debates because far too many are quite shallow minded when it comes to knowledge of the true practise of islam.
But I have learnt a few things from folks around here. It's unfortunate you guy's represent a minuscule proportion of the total muslim population.
Therefore, saidat my muslim friend who is an ardent muslim and one with zeal to please Allah might actually be on the wrong boat ignorantly 'cos she's not allowed to question whatever alfa suleiman, her islamic teacher tells her.
But how intellectually sound is alfa sule for the task of moulding and indoctrinating saidat ? Are we even sure of the islamic knowledge of his own master ? How do we verify that he is qualified to influence saidat.
This is the scenario in most parts of the north and even around the south west.
That being said, I sometimes feel your dilemna as muslims to justify some inappropriate actions that your kiths might have been culpable of.
Take for example lagosshia is a man that I respect so much for hos balanced analysis of islamic affairs but with what he's written up there you can only see a troubled mind.
Pray tell, If you had a gun in your hands and we were walking through a forest just us too and I brought out a copy of the quran tore a few passages and rolled up my ganja and began to smoke with it.
Wold you shoot me ? If you answer in the affirmative I understand very well your reasons but if your answer is 'NO' then pleas tell me why you wouldn't. Because that'd be a surprise. Please respond.

fellis:
The guys that produced and promoted the movie are renowned for being very Islamophobic. One of them caused trouble by burning the Quran sometime ago.
The people behind this are not many and if Muslims want to stop them, they can put pressure on relevant authorities to prevent the movie from being broadcast and letting them understand that doing so is crucial to prevent any further trouble. It is straight forward, the Muslims could have put their (peaceful) effort into trying to get the movie banned by talking to those in the country where the movie was made. I think it is only the trailers of the film that are available to watch presently and not the movie itself. Steps could have been taken by Muslims in America to prevent the release of the movie instead of the worldwide protests that are being staged. Also, I understand that there is pent up frustration and anger at the US for their activities of terrorism against Muslims but if Muslims want to speak against that, there are better ways to do so and they ought to address that issue seperately instead of protesting against it while protesting against the movie that was made.

@bold.
Thank you. You spoke my mind. Peaceful diplomatic talks/negotiations are better than violent protests.

why should you be so preoccupied with stopping anybody from expressing his views. That is a violation of his fundamental himan right and you know that.
As long as they are expressing their views in a non violent way, no matter how blasphemous you may want to view it, they are within the ambient of the law to do so without fear of intimidation.
Saudi knows too so all that talk of diplomatic negotiations will hold no water.
How do you tell a civilised country to put a tape on the mouth of it's citizens ? It's worse than when we were in the military era.
Take away a man's freedom of speech and he is next to an animal. Caged ?
How about those ardent muslims coming together to produce a film to debunk the percieved lies or 'blasphemy'.
C'mon guy's y'all can do better than reason this way. If our educated and enlightened muslims can still reason like this then I think the battle is as good as lost.
You know their action is not only wrong but ridiculous then say it. It's ok to face the truth sometimes, all the time and that is the true test of a man.
The poser still remains that which kind of a God need's mortals to help him restore his glory or would have his glory diminish because of mortal men, which kind of a God need's heathens to defend it ?

Double post

Bia, guitarlife, I have an exam that I want to start preparing to go and write right now. Later I will answer you. Have a nice day.

fellis: Bia, guitarlife, I have an exam that I want to start preparing to go and write right now. Later I will answer you. Have a nice day.

kkk all the best in your exams.

Guitarlife: why should you be so preoccupied with stopping anybody from expressing his views. That is a violation of his fundamental himan right and you know that.
As long as they are expressing their views in a non violent way, no matter how blasphemous you may want to view it, they are within the ambient of the law to do so without fear of intimidation.

There is a difference between freedom of speech and freedom to hate... Most countries in the world have laws against hate speech..

Absolute freedom of speech is a myth, Drawing of degrading cartoons and movies of the prophet or any other prophet do invoke feelings amongst muslims. It is the kind of cynicism that unfortunately exists in our society. Some muslims overreact, but most people will if their mother or father was insulted. Like i said, respect for other people's traditions is an important value. It's a big place, we can all get along.

Movies or cartoons by members of dominant communities vilifying the religion of minority groups that are targets of racism are just a manifestation of oppression and incitation to racial hatred. There is a reason why many countries have laws against hate speech. Can you write a op--ed in the new york times using words like "ni__ga" or other racist slurs? Of course not, so there is a balance between freedom of speech and what is socially acceptable.

They project a stereotype on a minority in a society, a stereotype that makes them susceptible to hate crimes. People get fired from media companies for insulting jews for instance, rick sanchez of cnn was fired for antisemitic comments. Why? there were not socially acceptable. Helen thomas, a veteran white house reporter lost everything because she simply said that the jews in israel should go back to europe. Why? Because these comments were considered socially unacceptable in the society where they lived: America.

There is no such thing as absolute freedom of speech... It is a recipe for chaos,.. People need to respect social barriers particularly for minority groups...

I live in the US by the way...

Has your mum ever been insulted? or your dad? Do you think you will always act rationally? To the muslim, the prophet (SAW) is more beloved to us than our own selves... You need to read about this man's incredible life and the love he had for his nation... So yea, not everyone will behave rationally... The burning of public property does not represent the values of Islam, it represents people taking emotions to extremes...

As regards 'striving for the cause of Allah', a muslim interprets this in a number of ways and it is not just in the face of a physical battle... Helping the poor, the oppressed and the sick in your society is striving for the cause of Allah... Fighting to protect the oppressed is striving in the cause of Allah... We have been given wealth and health... The way we utilise it in this world would decide where we end up... This is striving in the cause of Allah. It is about Us not Allah.

tbaba1234:

There is a difference between freedom of speech and freedom to hate... Most countries in the world have laws against hate speech..

Absolute freedom of speech is a myth, Drawing of degrading cartoons and movies of the prophet or any other prophet do invoke feelings amongst muslims. It is the kind of cynicism that unfortunately exists in our society. Some muslims overreact, but most people will if their mother or father was insulted. Like i said, respect for other people's traditions is an important value. It's a big place, we can all get along.

Movies or cartoons by members of dominant communities vilifying the religion of minority groups that are targets of racism are just a manifestation of oppression and incitation to racial hatred. There is a reason why many countries have laws against hate speech. Can you write a op--ed in the new york times using words like "ni__ga" or other racist slurs? Of course not, so there is a balance between freedom of speech and what is socially acceptable.

They project a stereotype on a minority in a society, a stereotype that makes them susceptible to hate crimes. People get fired from media companies for insulting jews for instance, rick sanchez of cnn was fired for antisemitic comments. Why? there were not socially acceptable. Helen thomas, a veteran white house reporter lost everything because she simply said that the jews in israel should go back to europe. Why? Because these comments were considered socially unacceptable in the society where they lived: America.

There is no such thing as absolute freedom of speech... It is a recipe for chaos,.. People need to respect social barriers particularly for minority groups...

I live in the US by the way...

Has your mum ever been insulted? or your dad? Do you think you will always act rationally? To the muslim, the prophet (SAW) is more beloved to us than our own selves... You need to read about this man's incredible life and the love he had for his nation... So yea, not everyone will behave rationally... The burning of public property does not represent the values of Islam, it represents people taking emotions to extremes...

As regards 'striving for the cause of Allah', a muslim interprets this in a number of ways and it is not just in the face of a physical battle... Helping the poor, the oppressed and the sick in your society is striving for the cause of Allah... Fighting to protect the oppressed is striving in the cause of Allah... We have been given wealth and health... The way we utilise it in this world would decide where we end up... This is striving in the cause of Allah. It is about Us not Allah.

Sir you point is clear. I very much believe there is no bad religion only bad followers.
That being said, I think holding America up as the flagship of human rights violation especially when it comes to freedom of speech and freedom of worship is a little bit preposterous.
With the risk of appearing like flogging a dead horse, we both know that when compared with the penalty associated with such misdeamenours in muslim dominated countries like iran and pakistan. America is a saint.
Ofcourse we have cases of media censoring in america and you could loose your job like you pointed out but then, we know in islamic countries you wouldn't only loose your job but your head too.
Truth is majority of muslims are misinformed. I painted a scenario up there for fellis if it were you would you shoot me ? I'm sure you know regardless of your answer whether yes or no, countless sheiks in pakistan wouldn't think twice but shoot me.
Now that is the crux of the matter. How can you possibly justify people's believe that it's ok to defend God. Note that my smoking did not in anyway constitute a threat to our sheik .
Would you now say that the sheik shot at me because I was on the offensive ? When I was just enjoying my ganja .
The same logic applies to those who paint caricatures of prophets, how did their action warrant or justify them loosing their lives.
I thought was the only giver and taker.
Yeah you were offended by the drawing but should it make a whole nation take to the streets.
Don't you think some thing is wrong ? With all these things , have you yourself ever taken to the street to protest ?
It doesn't make sense. It's like your little boy soiling your couch and you ordering an electric chair.

tbaba1234:

There is a difference between freedom of speech and freedom to hate... Most countries in the world have laws against hate speech..

Absolute freedom of speech is a myth, Drawing of degrading cartoons and movies of the prophet or any other prophet do invoke feelings amongst muslims. It is the kind of cynicism that unfortunately exists in our society. Some muslims overreact, but most people will if their mother or father was insulted. Like i said, respect for other people's traditions is an important value. It's a big place, we can all get along.

Movies or cartoons by members of dominant communities vilifying the religion of minority groups that are targets of racism are just a manifestation of oppression and incitation to racial hatred. There is a reason why many countries have laws against hate speech. Can you write a op--ed in the new york times using words like "ni__ga" or other racist slurs? Of course not, so there is a balance between freedom of speech and what is socially acceptable.

They project a stereotype on a minority in a society, a stereotype that makes them susceptible to hate crimes. People get fired from media companies for insulting jews for instance, rick sanchez of cnn was fired for antisemitic comments. Why? there were not socially acceptable. Helen thomas, a veteran white house reporter lost everything because she simply said that the jews in israel should go back to europe. Why? Because these comments were considered socially unacceptable in the society where they lived: America.

There is no such thing as absolute freedom of speech... It is a recipe for chaos,.. People need to respect social barriers particularly for minority groups...

I live in the US by the way...

Has your mum ever been insulted? or your dad? Do you think you will always act rationally? To the muslim, the prophet (SAW) is more beloved to us than our own selves... You need to read about this man's incredible life and the love he had for his nation... So yea, not everyone will behave rationally... The burning of public property does not represent the values of Islam, it represents people taking emotions to extremes...

As regards 'striving for the cause of Allah', a muslim interprets this in a number of ways and it is not just in the face of a physical battle... Helping the poor, the oppressed and the sick in your society is striving for the cause of Allah... Fighting to protect the oppressed is striving in the cause of Allah... We have been given wealth and health... The way we utilise it in this world would decide where we end up... This is striving in the cause of Allah. It is about Us not Allah.

Sir you point is clear. I very much believe there is no bad religion only bad followers.
That being said, I think holding America up as the flagship of human rights violation especially when it comes to freedom of speech and freedom of worship is a little bit preposterous.
With the risk of appearing like flogging a dead horse, we both know that when compared with the penalty associated with such misdeamenours in muslim dominated countries like iran and pakistan. America is a saint.
Ofcourse we have cases of media censoring in america and you could loose your job like you pointed out but then, we know in islamic countries you wouldn't only loose your job but your head too.
Truth is majority of muslims are misinformed. I painted a scenario up there for fellis if it were you would you shoot me ? I'm sure you know regardless of your answer whether yes or no, countless sheiks in pakistan wouldn't think twice but shoot me.
Now that is the crux of the matter. How can you possibly justify people's believe that it's ok to defend God. Note that my smoking did not in anyway constitute a threat to our sheik .
Would you now say that the sheik shot at me because I was on the offensive ? When I was just enjoying my ganja .
The same logic applies to those who paint caricatures of prophets, how did their action warrant or justify them loosing their lives.
I thought was the only giver and taker.
Yeah you were offended by the drawing but should it make a whole nation take to the streets.
Don't you think some thing is wrong ? With all these things , have you yourself ever taken to the street to protest ?
It doesn't make sense. It's like your little boy soiling your couch and you ordering an electric chair.

fellis:
I don't know what type of pressure the governments of those countries want to put on the US by letting people protest without first making sure that the protests would not degenerate into violent situations by putting very strict measures in place to keep things peaceful. They should know from history that such a protest is volatile and done more to keep things calm.

Na wa O. You asked how Muslims should react and I gave you an answer. In your response, you turned it upside down. I said Muslims should react by protesting peacefully and Muslim/Islamic governments should put diplomatic pressure on the United States.

LagosShia makes a valid point when he quotes the Qur'an in saying you can never please Non-Muslims until you join them. You might want to start bothering-less about what they say or think about you as long as you remain focused on practising Islam properly.

fellis:
True, those four points.
So does this mean there is no end in sight for the violent acts? Especially considering number 4 and the fact that USA is not ready to leave the countries they occupy/sponsor the killing of Muslims anytime soon. Thanks for the video link.

I know. Just can't help it. I have shouted myself hoarse trying to convince people that Islam is peaceful. When muslims do things like this, the little acheivement you have made by way of convincing others just seems to come crumbling down like a deck of cards.

Guitarlife: Sir you point is clear. I very much believe there is no bad religion only bad followers.
That being said, I think holding America up as the flagship of human rights violation especially when it comes to freedom of speech and freedom of worship is a little bit preposterous.
With the risk of appearing like flogging a dead horse, we both know that when compared with the penalty associated with such misdeamenours in muslim dominated countries like iran and pakistan. America is a saint.
Ofcourse we have cases of media censoring in america and you could loose your job like you pointed out but then, we know in islamic countries you wouldn't only loose your job but your head too.
Truth is majority of muslims are misinformed. I painted a scenario up there for fellis if it were you would you shoot me ? I'm sure you know regardless of your answer whether yes or no, countless sheiks in pakistan wouldn't think twice but shoot me.
Now that is the crux of the matter. How can you possibly justify people's believe that it's ok to defend God. Note that my smoking did not in anyway constitute a threat to our sheik .
Would you now say that the sheik shot at me because I was on the offensive ? When I was just enjoying my ganja .
The same logic applies to those who paint caricatures of prophets, how did their action warrant or justify them loosing their lives.
I thought was the only giver and taker.
Yeah you were offended by the drawing but should it make a whole nation take to the streets.
Don't you think some thing is wrong ? With all these things , have you yourself ever taken to the street to protest ?
It doesn't make sense. It's like your little boy soiling your couch and you ordering an electric chair.

If you realise that the mass protests that we have seen over this video seem out of place, don't you think you should widen your scope of reasoning and accept that there are many other issues involved here other than Muslims protesting against a video?

maclatunji:

If you realise that the mass protests that we have seen over this video seem out of place, don't you think you should widen your scope of reasoning and accept that there are many other issues involved here other than Muslims protesting against a video?

Seems we both have a common point here. We both rightly think this particular protest was quite outrageous if I got you well. Now I'm not disputing that the west has been so vindictice of the middle east but then don't you transferred agression is quite cowardly a thing to engage in ?
Why unnecessarily go out of your way to the tune of endagering lives under the disguise of fighting a video.
We all know 90 percent of the protesters have not seen the video and this is a vital point you are over loking.
What manner of people take to the streets without waiting to sight the evidence. You wouldn't do it mac, we both know you are way smarter than that.
If the protesters have another grouse why not table it or stage a protest to that effect(I'm assuming your premise is right which might be anyway).
It smells of cowardice and the prophet Mohammed (PBH) was not a coward. His many battle's, war's and conquests point us to that . He executed his mission with brutal savagery.
He wouldn't be caught hiding only to spring out on a flimsy excuse to cause mayhem like this.
He simply took it to their door steps which makes me all the more confused than I was at the start of this thread.

Guitarlife: Seems we both have a common point here. We both rightly think this particular protest was quite outrageous if I got you well. Now I'm not disputing that the west has been so vindictice of the middle east but then don't you transferred agression is quite cowardly a thing to engage in ?
Why unnecessarily go out of your way to the tune of endagering lives under the disguise of fighting a video.
We all know 90 percent of the protesters have not seen the video and this is a vital point you are over loking.
What manner of people take to the streets without waiting to sight the evidence. You wouldn't do it mac, we both know you are way smarter than that.
If the protesters have another grouse why not table it or stage a protest to that effect(I'm assuming your premise is right which might be anyway).
It smells of cowardice and the prophet Mohammed (PBH) was not a coward. His many battle's, war's and conquests point us to that . He executed his mission with brutal savagery.
He wouldn't be caught hiding only to spring out on a flimsy excuse to cause mayhem like this.
He simply took it to their door steps which makes me all the more confused than I was at the start of this thread.

I laugh at you. The Prophet executed his mission with "brutal savagery"? You Mr. are a joke.

As for your questions read my first post on this thread.

Guitarlife: Two wrongs don't make a right does it ? And your submission clearly negates the stand of Lagosshia up there. If you read succintly his post, he subtly endorses the viloent action calling it justice.
He even believes it is right to cause chaos in the society as long as the gorvernment is culpable.
I don't usually engage muslims in intellectual debates because far too many are quite shallow minded when it comes to knowledge of the true practise of islam.
But I have learnt a few things from folks around here. It's unfortunate you guy's represent a minuscule proportion of the total muslim population.
Therefore, saidat my muslim friend who is an ardent muslim and one with zeal to please Allah might actually be on the wrong boat ignorantly 'cos she's not allowed to question whatever alfa suleiman, her islamic teacher tells her.
But how intellectually sound is alfa sule for the task of moulding and indoctrinating saidat ? Are we even sure of the islamic knowledge of his own master ? How do we verify that he is qualified to influence saidat.
This is the scenario in most parts of the north and even around the south west.
That being said, I sometimes feel your dilemna as muslims to justify some inappropriate actions that your kiths might have been culpable of.
Take for example lagosshia is a man that I respect so much for hos balanced analysis of islamic affairs but with what he's written up there you can only see a troubled mind.
Pray tell, If you had a gun in your hands and we were walking through a forest just us too and I brought out a copy of the quran tore a few passages and rolled up my ganja and began to smoke with it.
Wold you shoot me ? If you answer in the affirmative I understand very well your reasons but if your answer is 'NO' then pleas tell me why you wouldn't. Because that'd be a surprise. Please respond.

Thanks for your respect Sir.

But I'm very sorry to say that you're the confused mind here or pretending to be confused just to have something to say.regardless of my political stance as a Muslim,I stated explicitly in my post that I both sympathize with the slained ambassador and I oppose violence,thereby supporting peaceful protest.but you've gone ahead to misinterpret,misquote and put words into my mouth.now that is very unfair of you.I feel really wronged by your post.

LagosShia:

Thanks for your respect Sir.

But I'm very sorry to say that you're the confused mind here or pretending to be confused just to have something to say.regardless of my political stance as a Muslim,I stated explicitly in my post that I both sympathize with the slained ambassador and I oppose violence,thereby supporting peaceful protest.but you've gone ahead to misinterpret,misquote and put words into my mouth.now that is very unfair of you.I feel really wronged by your post.

I'm really sorry if that was how it appeared. I didn't intend to. Have a great day.

Guitarlife: why should you be so preoccupied with stopping anybody from expressing his views. That is a violation of his fundamental himan right and you know that.
As long as they are expressing their views in a non violent way, no matter how blasphemous you may want to view it, they are within the ambient of the law to do so without fear of intimidation.
Saudi knows too so all that talk of diplomatic negotiations will hold no water.
How do you tell a civilised country to put a tape on the mouth of it's citizens ? It's worse than when we were in the military era.
Take away a man's freedom of speech and he is next to an animal. Caged ?
How about those ardent muslims coming together to produce a film to debunk the percieved lies or 'blasphemy'.
C'mon guy's y'all can do better than reason this way. If our educated and enlightened muslims can still reason like this then I think the battle is as good as lost.
You know their action is not only wrong but ridiculous then say it. It's ok to face the truth sometimes, all the time and that is the true test of a man.
The poser still remains that which kind of a God need's mortals to help him restore his glory or would have his glory diminish because of mortal men, which kind of a God need's heathens to defend it ?

I am sure you're mature enough and learned to know the difference between "slander","defamation","disrespect",and "freedom of expression".the west knows very well its case on "free speech" as excuse to justify these provocations is built on hypocrisy and self-denial of the reality.

As for God defending Himself,you should know that we are offended and firstly defending ourselves.and this is what our God stated about those you're trying to justify:

Holy Quran 13:32
" Surely the Messengers before you were ridiculed, but I always initially granted respite to those who disbelieved, and then I seized them (with chastisement). Then, how awesome was My chastisement! "

As for the show you're putting up here,this is the truth about the nature of your likes:

Holy Quran 2:120
"Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you (O Muhammad) till you follow their religion. Say: "Verily, the Guidance of Allah (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) that is the (only) Guidance. And if you (O Muhammad) were to follow their (Jews and Christians) desires after what you have received of Knowledge (i.e. the Qur'an), then you would have against Allah neither any Wali (protector or guardian) nor any helper. "

Guitarlife: I'm really sorry if that was how it appeared. I didn't intend to. Have a great day.

Ok

My take on this is that the protest have not been fruitful nor productive rather it has served as ammunition for the kufar media and propaganda to use against Islam. I think muslims need to find alternative means of reacting that are not only productive but hassle free, like during the cartoon brouhaha the Saudi authorities block certain imports from Denmark, this bore fruits, another issue is when people go out to protest what do they seek to achieve? To register their disgust? Or to create a scene? This sort of protest ends up yelding nothing because the slowpoke intention is to get u pissed. Why not rather protesters chant about Muhammad pbuh being the greatest man that ever lived? Or speaks about his many virtures? I think when the kufar see this they woul know that their idiotic vidoes,cartoon etc does reduce or dent the excellence of rasullulah.

Then there is always the economic factor such as refusing to purchase their goods etc (although this becomes collective punishment).

And come to think about it how would prophet Muhammad pbuh react to such an incident?

Muslims really need to follow the prophet's pbuh footsteps.

vedaxcool: My take on this is that the protest have not been fruitful nor productive rather it has served as ammunition for the kufar media and propaganda to use against Islam. I think muslims need to find alternative means of reacting that are not only productive but hassle free, like during the cartoon brouhaha the Saudi authorities block certain imports from Denmark, this bore fruits, another issue is when people go out to protest what do they seek to achieve? To register their disgust? Or to create a scene? This sort of protest ends up yelding nothing because the slowpoke intention is to get u pissed. Why not rather protesters chant about Muhammad pbuh being the greatest man that ever lived? Or speaks about his many virtures? I think when the kufar see this they woul know that their idiotic vidoes,cartoon etc does reduce or dent the excellence of rasullulah.

Then there is always the economic factor such as refusing to purchase their goods etc (although this becomes collective punishment).

And come to think about it how would prophet Muhammad pbuh react to such an incident?

Muslims really need to follow the prophet's pbuh footsteps.

Peaceful protests are a tool that everybody has a right to. So, you cannot say people should go and hide in their rooms and have their voices heard. It's the violence that needs to be addressed. The Russians and the Chinese aren't Muslims, do we see Muslim protesters against them? No!

Why is that so?

America should learn.

maclatunji:

Peaceful protests are a tool that everybody has a right to. So, you cannot say people should go and hide in their rooms and have their voices heard. It's the violence that needs to be addressed. The Russians and the Chinese aren't Muslims, do we see Muslim protesters against them? No!

Why is that so?

America should learn.

If I may also add,we the masses have the purchasing power to boycott products from denmark or USA.but our governments also should play their parts.the governments should use diplomatic pressure.they should cut ties with the US and the muslim countries that have oil should cut the oil supply.but I'm afraid puppet regimes are too scared of master USA.