^^^

Joagbaje: ...
Christian tithing is not according to law but by faith of individuals. Tithing is a spiritual principle, as others ,such as prayer, intercession,alms giving, honoring father and mother etc.

The concern here is how do you even begin to preach tithe as a spiritual principle? What makes a fixed percentage of my income a spiritual principle? The only difference i see between tithing and other givings is that it is determined as 10% of my income (the pastoral definition). you are not providing full disclosure when you say tithing is a spiritual principle. The way you guys describe it, tithing is not just 10% it must be a tenth of my total income.

I could have given a tenth of my basic salary to the church/pastor, i can chose to give a tenth of one month salary as annual tithe (it is still a tenth); assuming i have interest in two or more businesses, i could decide to give a tenth from just one of them. The problem is you guys don't see these transactions as tithing. Abraham gave only a tenth of war spoils (Melchi was not always around on a monthly or annual basis to collect Abby's tithe from his agric business); Jacob determined when and how he was to give his tithe. It was not determined by God or priest (Jacob was not tithing prior to his journey. he probably gave his tenth years or decades after his vow. that is if he gave at all. It could have been a one tithe event); the Mosaaic law did not define tithe as a strict 10%, and it did not define tithe as 10% from all takings/earnings.

Prayer is as determined by the individual, same for intercession, alms giving and honoring your parents. There is no fixed approach to it. Why is tithe different? if Christians don't tithe according to the law, why is the definition fixed? what is the basis for the modern day tithing practice? Joagabje, i just don't see how you can talk about tithe today without tying it to the law.

Bidam: madam i don't intend to respond to ur ignorance. But i have to so as to set the records straight...i think u ave heard of the word EMPHASIS...Paul was the emphasis added..or is paul the author of ur faith!??Smh! Ayam a believer and i OBEY GOD not the philosopies and ideologies of men.

Who is saying Paul is the author of Christian faith here? and mind you, Paul did not taught that too, did He. See your comment again:

Bidam: @image.God bless u sir.. i really like the part u said i'd rather obey Jesus than a thousand exposition.. dat is mind blowing my brother... Jesus and not paul is indeed the Author and Perfecter of our Faith.

The passages the OP has been treating are the writing of Paul? Your comment shows They are not to be trusted.
And you even made it seem as if @image123 is rejecting the expositions because they are from Paul

dat is mind blowing my brother... Jesus and not paul

Did Paul made Himself an Apostle? no. Jesus chosed Him, so His writings are inspired and all point to Christ.

Galatians 1:12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,


So i ask you again, are you a Christian?

seriallink: ^^Are you saying Paul's teachings weren't inspired by Jesus/Holy Spirit? If you reject his teachings, you are rejecting Jesus too; unless ofcourse you are not a Christian like Sis. Plappvile asked Smh!!!

I fear this bros ooo

Image123:
plap, please be polite enough to converse with me in English. Thank you.

How did i sound rude and what brought English into this? i have always communicated with you in English language, so what's your point?

Image123: @plap, hope you're not short too? Amusing and short is not a good combination oh, lolz.
I'm kidding oh, you know i sabi tickle you.
let me go take my flight, thank you Jesus, today no bi 'Shabbath'. plap for get chance catch me. I'll also have to put on THE WHOLE armour of God just in case. heeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaa.

Na you sabi, I am only reminding you of the Sabbath, the day God set aside right from the beginning.
You sabi tickle me, me too sabi when to entertain you

Sabbath + tithe for bros...image123

Zikkyy:

The concern here is how do you even begin to preach tithe as a spiritual principle? What makes a fixed percentage of my income a spiritual principle? The only difference i see between tithing and other givings is that it is determined as 10% of my income (the pastoral definition). you are not providing full disclosure when you say tithing is a spiritual principle. The way you guys describe it, tithing is not just 10% it must be a tenth of my total income.

[b]I could have given a tenth of my basic salary to the church/pastor, i can chose to give a tenth of one month salary as annual tithe (it is still a tenth); assuming i have interest in two or more businesses, i could decide to give a tenth from just one of them. The problem is you guys don't see these transactions as tithing. Abraham gave only a tenth of war spoils (Melchi was not always around on a monthly or annual basis to collect Abby's tithe from his agric business); Jacob determined when and how he was to give his tithe. It was not determined by God or priest (Jacob was not tithing prior to his journey. he probably gave his tenth years or decades after his vow. that is if he gave at all. It could have been a one tithe event); the Mosaaic law did not define tithe as a strict 10%, and it did not define tithe as 10% from all takings/earnings.

Prayer is as determined by the individual, same for intercession, alms giving and honoring your parents. There is no fixed approach to it. Why is tithe different? if Christians don't tithe according to the law, why is the definition fixed? what is the basis for the modern day tithing practice? Joagabje, i just don't see how you can talk about tithe today without tying it to the law. [/b]

Well done sir. They say tithe is before the law but practice it according to the law.....confusion break bone!

@ Joagbaje,

Do you need scripture to always remind you as it stares you in the face

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
For there is verily an annulment of the previous commandment because of the weakness and uselessness thereof. Hebrews 7:18.

What then is this "former commandment" that is ANNULLED, SET ASIDE etc

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they are descendants of Abraham: Hebrews 7:5

Do you see both verse use the word, "verily" And both verse have "commandment" This commandment to receive tithe is in Numbers 18. That is the "FORMER".....When you are called a "Former" President, do you still rule ... NOT to say that this "Former" is SET ASIDE, ANNULLED etc

@zikky
lemme try and match you too together i.e you and Gosh, though you both understand me differently. i noticed also that you selectively replied my posts. i assume that you are in now in agreement with the parts that you skipped. Bringing it up later like it was never answered na wahala oh.

The bolded is not in dispute. I did agree that people received tithe after the law [/b]and i went further to state that it was the levites that received tithe after the law in accordance with the requirement of the law. I also stated that the people that received tithe after the law (levites - in accordance with the requirement of the law) were also the people receiving tithe when the law in force. there was no need for condemnation because nothing changed. If you say i already agreed to your premise, i want to believe this is your position as well.

Ys, this is my position. you may also note that Gosh doesn't agree with the bolded. My point remains that people received tithes after the law in the time of the apostles, none of them condemned it or spoke ill of it. What you guys are doing as anti-tithers is not scriptural. infact Jesus commended and recommended tithes.
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for [b]ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

How can you say i lied? It would be nice if you can just ensure your computer screen is not lying on it side anytime you are reading my posts. Did i say Paul had issues writing about the law to anybody? NO!, did i say Paul did not use the law to validate his message? NO!, Did i say Paul did not respect the law? NO! so what are you talking about. This is what i said:

It's very simple, the bible verse is enough proof that Paul (sent to the gentiles) did not require the gentiles to adhere to the mosaic law (tithe inclusive). Paul's behavior among the gentiles was that of one not under the bondage of the mosaic law.

i responded to and quoted the below, are you not the one that said it?
"Paul's behavior among the gentiles was that of one not under the bondage of the mosaic law. The weightier and minor matters of the mosaic law were not relevant in his dealings with the gentiles, only the law of Christ was relevant."
Why would Paul quote the law copiously in ALL his letters to the gentiles if they were not relevant to his dealings?
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The laborer is worthy of his reward.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Love is the fulfilling of the law. Did Paul not tell his audience to love?

It is not stated anywhere in the quotes above that gentiles should adhere to the requirement of the mosaic law.

Fortunately, the verses are in praise of the law, as against the trampling and the deriding of the law that you folks consider a virtue. You need to understand also, that keeping the law of God in the NT is not a requirement to salvation.

What constitute the major matters of the law is irrelevant as long as Christians are not required to comply with the requirements of the law.

Faith, mercy, love and judgement are major mattes of the law and they are relevant to real Christians.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

This goes to reinforce our understanding that it was the levi priests collecting tithe & offerings. no problem.

In actuality, it was God and He does not change.

Oh yes i can! while faith is a weighty part of the law, my faith is not driven by the requirement of the law. Why is it so difficult for you to understand?

Meaning, on the same premise, while tithe is a minor part of the law, my giving tithe is not driven by the requirement of the law. Why is it so difficult for you to understand? you are the ones insisting that the premise for not paying tithes is that the law is 'no more', and we are telling you that there is no more law, there is no more love, faith, mercy, not only tithes.

We know people rendered a tenth of 'something' before the law. That is not in dispute. What i don't agree with is your claim that the act of rendering a tenth of your income to the church is a requirement of the law.

My claim? i do not understand that part. Tithe is a tenth, stop dodging issues.

@zikky
Now this is the part that is more complex, barging into another's line of discussion and reasoning. he seems to have taken your answer as his though so i'll reply, though it looks like you're not understanding what i say the same way. Well, that's the way here, any silly question and quote against tithe gets the approval and applause of all anti-tithers and then we have to go back to square one and into endless and meaningless circles. Another person might soon come in now and kind of take the baton, and we re-start discussion and arguement on basics etc.

You kept saying tithe was received after the law now, and after some serious pressure you come up with the info that the Levites are the receiver of tithes after the law. what exactly is the point? all this while i thought you were going to reveal some hidden secrets am disappointed

One of you is still likely to ask the bolded again. The point is that people received tithes after the law and were not condemned or castigated by any of the apostles. If anything, they were encouraged.
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
Paul said, he was not without law, but under the law, and he encouraged gentiles to follow him. You know, we can keep on in an endless talk on any side of a matter. What you need to do is seek and strive to understand the issues roundly instead of avoiding the scriptures or countering them against one another like the person who quotes the most scriptures in his favour wins. Almost anything and position can find a scripture to back it up, and we have many examples of seeming contradictions.
Pro 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
Pro 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
[center]OR[/center]
Pro 28:1 The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.
Pro 28:14 Happy is the man that feareth always: but he that hardeneth his heart shall fall into mischief.

the above two passages are good examples. Same writer, same chapter, the bolded can be taken by opposing sides and there are other scriptures to back up each side. both the wise and honest person will strive for understanding.

Now that the GOAL or PURPOSE of the law have been achieved (except in your case where the law is yet to achieve its purpose), is there still need for adherence? My brother you need loooove in your life o! the lack of love is the reason you are tithing according to the law.

i guess you don't need loooove in your life o? The goal and purpose and summary of the law is love, and love still needs to be adhered to.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Irrelevant to the discussion. You spent more time praising the law than showing the relevance to Christians

how could a praise and show from scriptures on the importance of the law be irrelevant to a discussion stating that the law is irrelevant. i guess only want you agree to is relevant to the discussion. How again do you expect the relevance to be shown. i showed you that the OT prophets said the law is relevant. James, John, Peter and Paul said that the law is relevant.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Pro 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
Are these passages irrelevant to christians?

The early christians respected the law as the Word of God. It was their scriptures.(Can you dispute any of these sentences?) They all commended it, it's then unfortunate how you out of context decide to deride the law and condemn it.
Hear James on the law, he thought the law was perfect. he was writing to christians!
Jam 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Hear David, a man after God's heart.
Psa 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.

Hear John the beloved,
1Jo 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
What he is saying is in paraphrase that "what i'm telling you is not different from the OT which hangs on love, according to Jesus".

Hear Peter, he encouraged the listeners to listen to the old,
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Savior:
He said listen to the old guys, then us. But your folks here are saying "Pull out the old guys and the four gospels, lets listen to the after the law guys". Be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets e.g Malachi, moses

Hear Paul the apostle,
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
To imagine that Paul delights in the law, considers it good, holy and spiritual! He must be kidding, right?

Paul said "Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing ALL things which are written in the law and in the prophets: " . Paul, AFTER the law, believed EVERYTHING written in the law. Remember he kept the law, even made vows and cleansing rites in the temple AFTER the law. He believed in Malachi 3, and in Genesis 14. He believed ALL.

Lol! who established the law Paul? or Image123? Apostle image stop quoting what you don't understand abeg you

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
you may want to come down from your high horse and congealed throne to open our understanding in this matter.

Are you now saying the law is for sinners only, now that you agreed the law is not meant for the righteous man? Image, you are confused you are just wasting bandwith here. You think one has to make long irrelevant posts to make sense here

You may want to re-read the quote you referenced here and see if it says any of what you're assuming. Learn to read one person cumulatively and not disjointedly or selectively.

Apostle image123, just one question sir. If the mosaic law that says thou shall not kill was deleted from the 10 commandment, can you point a loaded gun at your brother's head and pull the trigger for the fun of it?

You said the goal of the commandment is love. Was that goal achieved by reliance on the law?
It appears somebody like you would go haywire without the law to control or put your fleshy desires in check. so anytime you sight your neighbor's wife your thoughts would be like: "damnnn, this lady is fine. i really must get down with her " then remembering the 10th commandment you say "ohhh shi.t, damn that law " You image123 are still working according to the flesh that's why you need the law. some of us have moved to the next level.

So we are to live the realities of scriptures laid down for us, and focus on your conjectures and daydreams?

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
Whatsoever things include tithes mrs zikky.

Did it ever occur to you that the levite would probably have died of starvation if not for the law to tithe. did you observed that God continued to use threat to ensure compliance (e.g. Malachi 3:10), did you observed that the Israelite periodically stray from the rightful path to worship other gods and only returns under threat? Do you really think you can give in love when the driving force is the threat that your income/business will be consumed by the devourer if you don't comply? The reason why a man would abandon a brother in need to pay his tithe.

1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
EVEN SO, just like God took care of the levites in the OT, those which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. god took care of them with tithes and offerings , and EVEN SO it is to be done in the NT. God loved His people with an everlasting love, and 'threatened' them in the OT. Its the same in the NT, God remains a consuming fire in the NT. the WRATH of God is REVEALED in the NT. The important thing is to repent. Whether one repent because God shed His love or repents because He wants to escape as in Hebrews2v1, repentance is repentance. God has not changed.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

@zikkyy

You image123 are still working according to the flesh that's why you need the law. some of us have moved to the next level.

Romans 8:2-4 (KJV)
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Titus 2:11-14 (KJV)
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Waoooh, this is a new one! So you think the law of God is the law of sin and death? The law is good, the law is holy, the law is righteous, and we should be mindful of it. Paul delighted after the law and he was saying this to gentiles. You can't quote this scripture against/to oppose that background. i kept telling you guys on the other thread months ago that there are different laws and you should be careful to distinguish what law has been done away with according to Hebrews. Some of your folks were yapping about the law of tithes until i drummed it into their soul that there is nothing like the law of tithe in the Bible. See Romans again in its context.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Paul delighted in the law of God, but there was ANOTHER LAW in him. It's not talking of the OT but a law inside him, a law of sin which is in him. that is the law that all have sinned. The law that all are sinners by default and will rather sin. there is a law of gravity that applies to everybody. there is a law of sin that applies to every human until he receives Christ. It is this law Paul is talking of.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Again he emphasises in the bolded that the problem is in the body, in his members. He's not looking for deliverance from God's law, and he finds deliverance in Jesus Christ.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
He is being made free from the law of sin and death which were in his body, in his members, not from the law of God.

Was it Jesus that defined tithe as 10% of income? Who defined tithe as 10% of income? where in in the bible is tithe defined as 10% of your income?

Income is profits, proceeds, returns, harvest, revenue, earnings, wages, pay, salary. tithe is a 10% of what you make. There is no dictionary meaning of tithe or of salvation in the Bible. Even the 'illiterate' Israelites were taken for granted to know the meaning of tithes. it is simply 10% of income. The commands just mentioned it to them. The tithe of e.g
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
Num 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as a heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
These are the first times the tithes was recorded to Israel and there is no definition as you suggest. It was for granted that everyone knew tithe as a tenth of the income.

Image123 tried to manipulate Hebrews 7:8 to mean that "here" is a present time when "men who die receive tithe". I know you want to hide under the "sometimes" confusing English of KJV. Let me help you by showing from our exposition that, there are TWO groups being compared and the KJV uses the word, "Here....there" to compare. It was comparing the tithe as in the case of Abraham to the case of the Levites. You abuse scriptures when you force your own interpretation into it. Take a look,

What is this nonsense? Is false accusation permitted after the law or what? i have said severally that Hebrews 7v8 shows that tithe was received after the law and nobody, apostle or disciple complained or condemned it. All the 'exposition' on here and there is at best needless. What has anything got to do with the kjv? You'v never seen me quote other versions or you don't quote kjv? Adding irrelevancies to your post doesn't make them more truthful.
You no try, you for quote heaven version join. the point still remains that men collected tithes after the law in the Bible and nobody fainted or got sick for it.

Telling Christians to obey the LAW of MOSES is heresy! When the law CHANGED/ENDED, Everything ended including tithing, priesthood, sacrifice, worship order etc, everything ended. It is outrightly unscriptural to mix law and Grace together to confuse the NT believers. This is the dilemma of the End time. Also, need we remind you that,

New International Version (©1984)
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

CAn you properly quote me or anyone here telling christians to obey the law of Moses? The matter is that you say the law is to be done away with therefore do away with tithe. the question we are asking is what law? Because if you generalise the law, you have to generalise it fully. you have to include love, mercy, faith, not just tithes. Understand that one first, make we come enter the other matter.

This image123 dolt makes me so sick with the way he constantly and deliberately twists scripture to fit his evil agenda.

@image: i now understand why so many people are against biblical tithing in the church today. The truth is in many religious settings, tithing has become the preeminent doctrine of the church. What should be a doctrine of great purpose and connection has often become a doctrine of separation. Pastors demand tithe, but it is often more out of a desire for, or a perceived right to, income than a desire for the welfare of the saints. In their appeals for tithe, some use manipulations and fear to motivate the people to part with their money. Saints grudgingly or blindly give without any more understanding than that the bible says to do it, or that in giving they can become materially prosperous. Instead of linking the people of God, the misapplication of this teaching has in many cases divided the people, each seeking their own good and not that of the Body. If anything, biblical tithing should speak of relationship and generation. God uses natural acts of obedience on earth to connect us to heavenly blessing and purpose. Marriage, worship, clothing, tithing, human government, and other foundations all have their beginnings in the Book of Genesis. Each requires a natural act to make a heavenly connection. Failure to perform what God requires in the natural negates order in the spiritual..i will explain it later. Thanks.

@ Bidam,

I thank you for all your contribution. It's no beef at all in the things of God. Heb.7:18 puts an end to tithing. Do you want to argue or debate that scripture otherwise

Goshen360: @ Bidam,

I thank you for all your contribution. It's no beef at all in the things of God. Heb.7:18 puts an end to tithing. Do you want to argue or debate that scripture otherwise

I thot Image has done justice to that...well i don't argue scriptures. I take them literally as the word of God, unless a revelation comes from that particular scripture..well i think i will connect the hebrew scripture with other scriptures to emphasize why tithing is indeed biblical.

Goshen360: @ Bidam,

I thank you for all your contribution. It's no beef at all in the things of God. Heb.7:18 puts an end to tithing.

You're still going about in this circle ? If Heb 7 put ends to tithing, it as well put end to prayer, worship, alms giving, free will offering, justice , honoring father and mother etc. think again.

Joagbaje:

You're still going about in this circle ? If Heb 7 put ends to tithing, it as well put end to prayer, worship, alms giving, free will offering, justice , honoring father and mother etc. think again.

Why don't you tell us what was annulled in Hebrews 7 since you have refused to accept what was expressly stated in the scriptures instead of using this your manipulative tactic.

Personally i know what you are afriad of and why you adhere so much to this false doctrine, but please try and make some sense as a lot of people already see you as a charlatan on this forum.

Image123: @zikky
Ys, this is my position. you may also note that Gosh doesn't agree with the bolded. My point remains that people received tithes after the law in the time of the apostles, none of them condemned it or spoke ill of it. What you guys are doing as anti-tithers is not scriptural.

Goshen is not saying the levite did not receive tithe after the law. What he is disputing is your reliance (and interpretation) on Hebrew 7:8 to prove that tithe was received after the law. That Hebrew verse is not talking about tithing activities after law. Goshen is very correct.

It may be true that people received tithe after the law, but they were not Christians. If the Jews continued to offer burnt offering & tithe after the law, it is of no relevance to Christianity.

Image123: @zikky
i responded to and quoted the below, are you not the one that said it?
"Paul's behavior among the gentiles was that of one not under the bondage of the mosaic law. The weightier and minor matters of the mosaic law were not relevant in his dealings with the gentiles, only the law of Christ was relevant."
Why would Paul quote the law copiously in ALL his letters to the gentiles if they were not relevant to his dealings?
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
1Co 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The laborer is worthy of his reward.

....and i spent time explaining what i meant by the law not being relevant in Paul's dealings with the gentiles, but as expected you guys don't read. I will say it one more time so you don't keep making irrelevant posts: Paul did not require the gentiles to adhere to the requirement of the mosaic law, simple.

Image123: @zikky
Fortunately, the verses are in praise of the law, as against the trampling and the deriding of the law that you folks consider a virtue. You need to understand also, that keeping the law of God in the NT is not a requirement to salvation.

Praise the law all you want, it does not change anything.

Image123: @zikky
Faith, mercy, love and judgement are major mattes of the law and they are relevant to real Christians.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Faith, mercy,love and judgement was in operation before the law and after the law. faith, mercy, love and judgement is also practiced by pagans.

Image123, loving God because the law says you should love is not real love. and that is the kind of love you get from tithers like yourself; love driven by fear and greed.

Image123:
Meaning, on the same premise, while tithe is a minor part of the law, my giving tithe is not driven by the requirement of the law. Why is it so difficult for you to understand?

If your tithing is not driven by the requirement of the law, why do you keep referring to the law to justify your action?

Image123:
you are the ones insisting that the premise for not paying tithes is that the law is 'no more', and we are telling you that there is no more law, there is no more love, faith, mercy, not only tithes.

I asked a question you are yet to answer. let me repeat it here: if the commandment "thou shall not kill" and "thou shall not obtain ya neighbor's wife" was never part of the law, can you image123 kill your brother for the fun of it? or can you steal your neighbors wife because you are image123 collecting peeps wife is what you do? Your response to this question will help in understanding 1 Timothy 1:9

1 Timothy 1:8-9 (KJV)
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

If you can kill in the absence of a law (& punishment) for murder, then the law is made for you and you belong to the category of peeps listed in the quote above. The man with the spirit of God in him cannot commit murder in the absence of the command "thou shall not kill".

This is the problem with tithers like yourself, you tithe because you believe the devourer will come knocking if you don't, it is not because you love God. That's what the law does to you, it makes you do things you ordinarily will not do.

Image123:
and we are telling you that there is no more law, there is no more love, faith, mercy, not only tithes.

It's stupid for anybody to think that the love, faith, mercy goes with the law. If there was another commandment to tithe after the law, it would also be stupid for anybody to say there is no more tithe because the law is no more. Unfortunately, there is no commandment to tithe after the law

Image123:
My claim? i do not understand that part. Tithe is a tenth, stop dodging issues.

Tithe is a tenth? so if my income is N20,000 and i decide to give a tenth of N10,000 (i.e. N1,000), can this giving be considered a tithe? afterall it is a tenth N10,000. You see why your comment don't make any sense. Tithe is a tenth, but not all tenth are tithe. You must properly define your tithe.

Image123:
In actuality, it was God and He does not change.

What do you mean it was God? are you saying it was God that collected tithe?

Image123: @zikky
The point is that people received tithes after the law and were not condemned or castigated by any of the apostles. If anything, they were encouraged.

encouraged ke? who encouraged who. I don't know of any receiver of tithe that was encouraged to continue in the business of receiving tithe o!

Image123: @zikky
Paul said, he was not without law, but under the law, and he encouraged gentiles to follow him.

Your problem is that wherever you read the word 'law' in the bible, you assume it is the mosaic law that's being discussed. You don't even understand the verse you are quoting

Image123:
i guess you don't need loooove in your life o? The goal and purpose and summary of the law is love, and love still needs to be adhered to.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

if the goal and purpose of Goodluck Jonathan campaign was to win the 2011 election, do you think it would make any sense for him to continue the campaign after wining the election. You can imagine the president asking for your vote in 2012 for an election that was concluded in 2011 talk better thing abeg

Image123:
how could a praise and show from scriptures on the importance of the law be irrelevant to a discussion stating that the law is irrelevant. i guess only want you agree to is relevant to the discussion. How again do you expect the relevance to be shown. i showed you that the OT prophets said the law is relevant. James, John, Peter and Paul said that the law is relevant.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Pro 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
Are these passages irrelevant to christians?

You are telling us Isaiah and David's opinion of the law? In fact i consider the part of your post to be irrelevant to the discussion

Image123:
The early christians respected the law as the Word of God. It was their scriptures.(Can you dispute any of these sentences?) They all commended it, it's then unfortunate how you out of context decide to deride the law and condemn it.
Hear James on the law, he thought the law was perfect. he was writing to christians!
Jam 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Once again you assume James was talking about the Mosaic law

Image123:
Hear David, a man after God's heart.
Psa 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.

This man stop this rough play, i am no longer finding this funny

Image123:
Hear John the beloved,
1Jo 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
What he is saying is in paraphrase that "what i'm telling you is not different from the OT which hangs on love, according to Jesus".

Nonsense! old commandment in this case is not the OT. you continue to show you have problem interpreting the scriptures

Image123:
Hear Peter, he encouraged the listeners to listen to the old,
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Savior:
He said listen to the old guys, then us. But your folks here are saying "Pull out the old guys and the four gospels, lets listen to the after the law guys". Be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets e.g Malachi, moses

What has the words of the prophet gat to do with christians adhering to the Law. If the prophets prophesy the coming of Christ, what has that gat to do with christians adhering to the law?

Image123:
Hear Paul the apostle,
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
To imagine that Paul delights in the law, considers it good, holy and spiritual! He must be kidding, right?

Paul said "Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing ALL things which are written in the law and in the prophets: " . Paul, AFTER the law, believed EVERYTHING written in the law. Remember he kept the law, even made vows and cleansing rites in the temple AFTER the law. He believed in Malachi 3, and in Genesis 14. He believed ALL.

Brother image123, i think you have lost touch with reality.

Image123:
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
Whatsoever things include tithes mrs zikky.

For your learning abi? you agree it's not for you to practice. so what exactly did you learn from the OT tithing practice?

Image123: @zikky
1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
1Co 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
EVEN SO, just like God took care of the levites in the OT, those which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. god took care of them with tithes and offerings , and EVEN SO it is to be done in the NT.

Even so abi? you realize the that God took care of the priest with tithe & offerings. Offerings here includes sin offering, guilt offering, cereal offering e.t.c If the priest were maintained with part of meat and cereals burnt on the altar, even so they should be maintained with burnt offerings today abi? you see yourself

Bidam: I thot Image has done justice to that...well i don't argue scriptures. I take them literally as the word of God, unless a revelation comes from that particular scripture..well i think i will connect the hebrew scripture with other scriptures to emphasize why tithing is indeed biblical.

I think that question should be answered sincerely and honestly. It might be too heavy for you to answer. Okay, try to connect the scripture well with other scriptures, ask yourself what "commandment" is called "former" and try to locate where it is in scriptures.

Joagbaje:

You're still going about in this circle ? If Heb 7 put ends to tithing, it as well put end to prayer, worship, alms giving, free will offering, justice , honoring father and mother etc. think again.

I'm sick and tire of your manipulative act on this forum. Does Heb. 7:18 specifically mentioned end to prayer? Doesn't the NT instruct on prayer, worship mode....do you worship God how it was done in the OT and under the Jewish practice? Doesn't the NT instruct on alms giving, free will offering giving, justice, honouring father and mother etc? I'm just sick and tired of your manipulations on the things of God. Like Pastor Kun said, we all know what your problem is. I might not reply to you anymore when you make foolish and manipulative argument. Okay.

Image123: @zikkyy

Waoooh, this is a new one! So you think the law of God is the law of sin and death? The law is good, the law is holy, the law is righteous, and we should be mindful of it. Paul delighted after the law and he was saying this to gentiles. You can't quote this scripture against/to oppose that background. i kept telling you guys on the other thread months ago that there are different laws and you should be careful to distinguish what law has been done away with according to Hebrews. Some of your folks were yapping about the law of tithes until i drummed it into their soul that there is nothing like the law of tithe in the Bible. See Romans again in its context.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Paul delighted in the law of God, but there was ANOTHER LAW in him. It's not talking of the OT but a law inside him, a law of sin which is in him. that is the law that all have sinned. The law that all are sinners by default and will rather sin. there is a law of gravity that applies to everybody. there is a law of sin that applies to every human until he receives Christ. It is this law Paul is talking of.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Again he emphasises in the bolded that the problem is in the body, in his members. He's not looking for deliverance from God's law, and he finds deliverance in Jesus Christ.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
He is being made free from the law of sin and death which were in his body, in his members, not from the law of God.

The law of God in this case is not referring to the Mosaic law. You forgot to add the part that says "For what the law could not do....". Before you begin to argue the verse i quoted you must first understand the purpose for which it was quoted. You image123 are still walking after the flesh, you rely on the mosaic law to check your excesses. That's what am pointing at; you still rely on the law to perfect you. some peeps already walk after the spirit, them don leave you behind.

Image123: @zikkyy
Income is profits, proceeds, returns, harvest, revenue, earnings, wages, pay, salary. tithe is a 10% of what you make.

Where is this definition from? It's likely to be from your pastor or your personal definition. I know there is nothing like this in the bible. It is the definition of man.

Image123: @zikkyy
There is no dictionary meaning of tithe or of salvation in the Bible. Even the 'illiterate' Israelites were taken for granted to know the meaning of tithes. it is simply 10% of income. The commands just mentioned it to them. The tithe of e.g
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
Num 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as a heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.
These are the first times the tithes was recorded to Israel and there is no definition as you suggest. It was for granted that everyone knew tithe as a tenth of the income.

You are totally wrong.The Israelite did not assume that tithe was a tenth of income; Under the Mosaic law, tithe was not defined as a tenth of income. the Israelite knew tithe was tenth of their harvest (crops), and measure tithe of the farm animal every tenth animal. You think the shepherd with flock doubling from 4 to 8 animals in a year did not earn income? yet he cannot tithe because only the tenth animal will be tithed and he has just 8. Or you think the man that went fishing did not earn income? but he is not tithing his fish. What about the man that hunt bushmeat? is bushmeat not income? but he is not required to tithe his bushmeat.

Before Moses i.e. in Abraham's time tithe was a tenth of war spoils, Jacob personally defined his tithe. the tithe of tenth of war spoils was no longer required after Moses issued the law. The Israelite had war spoils but did not give a tenth of it to the priest. So who defined tithe as a tenth of salary tenth of profit? How do you arrive at profit? you need to remove expenses from your gross or total revenue abi? The Israelite tithed a tenth of harvest without first removing the cost of planting, weeding and harvesting.

Your tithe today is as defined by man and cannot be justified by reference to the tithe practice under the law.

Bidam: @image:
Pastors demand tithe, but it is often more out of a desire for, or a perceived right to, income than a desire for the welfare of the saints. In their appeals for tithe, some use manipulations and fear to motivate the people to part with their money. Saints grudgingly or blindly give without any more understanding than that the bible says to do it, or that in giving they can become materially prosperous. Instead of linking the people of God, the misapplication of this teaching has in many cases divided the people, each seeking their own good and not that of the Body.

It's good to see you coming to your senses.

I'm happy you're patient to continue this discourse with Image123. . . but for someone to use Paul's words to claim that Paul said, he was not without law, but under the law, and he encouraged gentiles to follow him. is just disappointing.

Heck, if Paul was 'under the law' why did he discourage circumcision and other practices under the law?

But when it comes to tithes, we are to believe these tenuous claims when the much vaunted Hebrews 7:8 interpretation has been revealed to be misguided.

@ Brother Zikky,

Good job. Keep the good work and God bless you. Your patient is commended. I'm already weary of argument with our tithe brothers even at the very face of clear scriptures that ended tithe. God bless you.

Goshen360:

I'm sick and tire of your manipulative act on this forum. Does Heb. 7:18 specifically mentioned end to prayer?

Neither did it mention end to tithing

Doesn't the NT instruct on prayer, worship mode....do you worship God how it was done in the OT and under the Jewish practice? Doesn't the NT instruct on alms giving, free will offering giving, justice, honouring father and mother etc? I'm just sick and tired of your manipulations on the things of God.

These were old testament practices. If you say the the law been done away with, all theses practices should be done away with as well.

Goshen360: @ Brother Zikky,

Good job. Keep the good work and God bless you. Your patient is commended. I'm already weary of argument with our tithe brothers even at the very face of clear scriptures that ended tithe. God bless you.

Thank you my brother. With peeps like Jagbaje & image123 bent on spreading their fraud inspired version of the gospel, you need to be patient o!

Joagbaje:

Neither did it mention end to tithing

Then what EXACTLY was SET ASIDE and ANNULLED Or better still, what exactly is the "former commandment" that was set aside. We need answers please.

These were old testament practices. If you say the the law been done away with, all theses practices should be done away with as well.

How many times are do we have to repeat it that praying in the NT is not based on OT; so are giving, worship etc. Are you so deluded you can't comprehend simple point made here

Goshen360:

Then what EXACTLY was SET ASIDE and ANNULLED Or better still, what exactly is the "former commandment" that was set aside. We need answers please.

What is annulled is the justification by the deeds of the law. The law was not bad in itself. But when a man seek to be made right with God by the law. He falls from grace.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Righteousness of God is revealed by faith. It's a gift ,not by obeying commandments .seeking righteousness or justification by is done away . Even though The law it's self it's not a problem. Apostles often quoted from the law. Why should the quuote obsolete material.

The part of the law that are done away with are the part Jesus fulfilled . But Gods principles revealed in the law are eternal.

Joagbaje:

What is annulled is the justification by the deeds of the law. The law was not bad in itself. But when a man seek to be made right with God by the law. He falls from grace.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Righteousness of God is revealed by faith. It's a gift ,not by obeying commandments .seeking righteousness or justification by is done away . Even though The law it's self it's not a problem. Apostles often quoted from the law. Why should the quuote obsolete material.

The part of the law that are done away with are the part Jesus fulfilled . But Gods principles revealed in the law are eternal.

I'll expose you in a minute.....just hold on, okay.

Tithing really a form of consencration in like manner the First Fruit is.
"For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches" Romans 11:16

Goshen360:
@ Joagbaje,

Do you need scripture to always remind you as it stares you in the face

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
For there is verily an annulment of the previous commandment because of the weakness and uselessness thereof. Hebrews 7:18.

Weakness as regards to what ?

What then is this "former commandment" that is ANNULLED, SET ASIDE etc

Romans 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The law reveal God principles. We learn from it .but it lack power to justify a man before God. In the old testament . god says by doing so and so ,you shall be holy nation. It became weak because no man could keep it. Righteousness can only be attained by faith . We became holy nation by faith in christ without condition.

That doesn't take away the good deeds the law contain. We do the, but we don't seek to be justified by them. That's why we wont commit murder . Not because the law demand it but because it's ,it's against Gods principle to do evil to your Neighbour

Joagbaje:

What is annulled is the justification by the deeds of the law. The law was not bad in itself. But when a man seek to be made right with God by the law. He falls from grace.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

First, the scripture you quoted by yourself has nothing to do with "commandment". It is doing the law and thinking one can be made righteous by doing the law. Why would Paul say such? Because the law was until faith should come. Now that faith had come and people still continue in the law thinking they will be earn God's justification and/or blessing is what Romans 3:20 remains in its context.

Second. You peddled the word with your manipulative interpretation bringing up Romans 3:20 which has NOTHING whatsoever to do with "commandment". What is a "commandment"?

The Greek word entolē translates as commandment. It means the following,

1) an order, command, charge, precept, injunction

a) that which is prescribed to one by reason of his office

2) a commandment

a) a prescribed rule in accordance with which a thing is done

1) a precept relating to lineage, of the Mosaic precept concerning the priesthood

2) ethically used of the commandments in the Mosaic law or Jewish tradition.......culled from here

A commandment MUST involve an order or instruct to DO SOMETHING. In this case, Hebrews 7:5 says the "commandment" is TO RECEIVE OR TAKE TITHE FROM THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL ACCORDING TO THE LAW.

And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

This is the commandment! The same commandment when traced back goes to Numbers 18 which confirms it is "according to the law (of Moses)".

Hebrews 7:18 in context reads,

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

English Standard Version (©2001)
For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness

Joagbaje, I will preach it until truth hit you and Christ alone be formed in you. Look at this scripture and tell us/me that the "commandment" in context is NOT to "receive tithe" according to verse 5

Joagbaje:
Even though The law it's self it's not a problem. Apostles often quoted from the law. Why should the quuote obsolete material.

I don't think anybody is saying the law is bad. Quoting from the law is not an issue. It becomes an issue when you tell Christians to adhere to the commands contain in the law.

Joagbaje:
But Gods principles revealed in the law are eternal.

What are the principles contained in the law? The principles are not the act itself but what the act represent. "thou shall not kill" the principle is not the act of murder or abstaining from the act. When God says give my tithe to the levite, the principle is not the act of tithing itself but what God want to achieve with such act.