nedu2000: Why do tell us what we already know?[b] even our catholic friends know that [b]

acidosis™:
Mary is not among the Trinity - God, Jesus & Holy spirit.

acidosis™:

Virgin Mary is just a medium for the birth of Jesus so no man could claim Jesus.. (So many men would claim him if he came to this world through a non-virgin).

acidosis™:

Mary, Despite being the mother of Jesus, had to accept him as her Lord & personal saviour otherwise she would have gone to hell..

acidosis™:

The blood in the vein of Jesus is not mary's... it is the blood of God. Ask your doc.

acidosis™:

Mary is not to be worshipped... Shes a mortal being like Rebecca, Deborah, Abraham etc..

acidosis™:

Mary can not pray for you or wash your sins away, she cannot forgive you cos you owe her nothing. When we commit sin, we do it against God and when we need forgiveness, we reach God through his son Jesus Christ.

acidosis™:
@ striktlymi, I'll be back with full force... Thanks for the reply, I appreciate..

striktlymi: Good afternoon, find the response you seek below:



* We already know that Mary is not God so this point is irrelevant.



* The above is your personal belief. My belief is that the God I serve does not do something for nothing. He doesn't just do things sponteneously. He has a plan for everything and coming through Mary was part of his divine plan. He had various options of coming to the earth, he could have just come down from the sky just as he went up after his resurrection. But he chose to come through this humble peasant girl. We tend to want to allow our personal views and opinions becloud our better judgement. If the mother of a prominent person comes to this state or even visit you, I am very sure you would accord that woman with lot of respect. How much more the person God chose to come through? God's choice of Mary is something very great. Even Elizabeth was quick to know this through the inspiration of the spirit. "How can the mother of my lord pay me a visit?" "Of all women you are the most blessed". So my friend if the choice of Mary is not something great to you, it was to Elizabeth and it is to me.



The above is the very basis of my love and admiration for this woman. She did not let God down. Despite the difficulty of living a good life hear on earth, she came out on top, hence proving God right for choosing her. Oh that the so called men of God would do right by God but sadly very few (if any) are at right right with God. Mary taught the world a vital lesson: It's not about the fact that you have been chosen, one still needs to work out his or her salvation.



The above quote is a very wrong teaching. It shows the extent someone can go to discredit another person for no just reason. First of all, the above denies the humanity of Jesus. Paul was very clear when he taught that Christ was like us in every way but sin. If he was like us, then what he had in his veins is human blood and not God's blood. You should note also that God is a spirit, and as such he has no blood to give. If you make God to be someone who has blood then you teach that God is mortal. This is a very wrong teaching. Jesus was truely God and truely man. It is not appropriate to say that Jesus took flesh from Mary but the blood is not from her. What makes you a man if not flesh and blood?



* Divine worship belongs to God alone. He who worships another in God's place worship's an idol and this act must be discouraged. But worshipping God does not stop us from respecting and honouring those to whom honour is due. If you make a first class in school, you would be honoured for that, this does not imply in any way that you are being worshipped as a god. Mary deserves more honour than someone who made a first class. Again, if u become the president of Nigeria, you would be accorded honour and respect. Mary deserves far more honour and respect than any preasident. Elizabeth respected and honoured her through the inspiration of the spirit, so who am I not to honour her? It is written in sacred scriptures that "all generations will call her blessed". If you do not honour her then you do not believe in that part of sacred scriptures.




* Only God can forgive sins. The mission of forgiven sins was extended to the apostles by Christ himself. Mary was not part of the apostles, hence her inability to forgive sins. But however, praying for someone is a completely different ball game. If a pastor can pray for a fellow man then I wonder why those who are in heaven cannot mediate for us. This actually is a broader topic of discussion. It brings to question, issues around the dead and whether the dead can indeed help us. But note that evryone who sleeps in Christ is alive not dead. Christ promised to take the "good thief" to paradise that very day. Christ went into "hell" to liberate the souls that have been waiting for redemption. If a fellow man can pray for me, then Mary can as well do a better job of it.


Thank you!

i.chuka:

And the angel answered and said unto her,
1,the Holy Spirit shall come upon thee.
2.the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee.
Therefore(because of the Holy Spirit and the power of God) also That *HOLY THING* which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.....Luke1:35.
Mary was merely a vessel of through which the Son of God came forth.her blood/flesh never mix with that of our lord Jesus Christ.
John1:14 says the Word became flesh.that is God became flesh in the womb of Mary.no mixture was required because the Holy Spirit was upon her and the Highest power in the universe was also involve.
That's why what she brought forth was deemed *HOLY*.
The vessel(mary) was NEVER Holy.

An0nimus: @striktlymi..Well scripted replies but I do not agree with all. Lemme see acidosis response and learn a lil more.

Luke 11:27-28
King James Version
(KJV)
27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain
woman of the company lifted up her
voice, and said unto him, Blessed is
the womb that bare thee, and the
paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God,
and keep it.

striktlymi:

Good evening,
I have gone through your contribution and have deciphered 2 points from it. The first is about the question mark you raised about the sanctity of Mary while the second was about the humanity of Jesus. I will take these in turn.

* In the old testament, there was a story about how someone was struck dead because he handled the ark of the covenant when it was about to fall to the ground. The person's offence was simply that he tried to handle the ark without reverence. The ark was where God decided to reflect his presesnce with his people. The ark became sacred because of God. Holy means something sacred i.e something set aside for a special purpose. Jesus taught us the value of not putting old wine in new wine skin. If this is done, he warned that the skin would burst. New wine belongs to new wine skin. Jesus taught this, and you honestly believe that he who taught such would come into the world in a vessel that is less than worthy? The sanctity of Mary was brought about by God himself. Like I mentioned earlier, Mary is part of the devine plan, she was prepared specially by God for the task he had for her. God can never be in a place that is not holy. Remember that in the old testament moses had to take off his shoes because the ground he set foot on was a holy ground. Mary was set aside specially by God.

* Your post implied that Jesus did not come as a man. I have spoken about the incorrectness of this earlier on. Jesus have two natures. Divine and human. Before he took flesh, he was purely divine. To say that Mary gave Jesus flesh and not blood suggests that Jesus was never man. When sacred scriptures said the word took flesh and dwealth amongst us, what it means is that Jesus became man. Don't confuse the meaning of the word "flesh". No man is made of flesh alone. Without blood, man is not man. If Jesus got his blood from somewhere else, it only implies that he never became as we are. We are made of human blood and flesh. This would make Paul a liar cause he said the only difference between us and Christ was sin. If Jesus never took bloood as we did then that would make him God only not man. Jesus is both God and Man.

i.chuka:


You are still not getting it,God became flesh in her womb.
A Cup/vessel don't mix with it content.it was purely of God,according to Luke1:19.
If our Lords blood did mix/comes from Mary,it would not have had the power to redeem us.
Because Mary was born of the flesh,and of natural decent and of the will of a man..John1:13.

striktlymi:

Good morning,

You still do not get it.
Every man, woman and child have flesh aand blood because God made it so. We do not pick up flesh and blood of our own accord. To deny that Christ never got his blood from Mary is to deny the very humanity of Christ. Note that the blood of Christ is not part of his divinity. When they say that Christ's blood reedeemed us, it actually means that Christ died to set us free.

Ther reedeeming power of Christ's blood has nothing to do with where he got it from. Note clearly that God is not man. He is a spirit and cannot die. In order for him to reedeem us, he needed to die, hence his decision to become mortal in order to be able to do this. Another reason why I think God made the choice of himself was that the sacrifice must be without blemish i.e the person who was to be sacrificed must be without the sin of Adam and Eve (originaal sin if u like) and also free from every personal sin. God achieved these in Jesus with the "fiat" of Mary.

It would be grossly incorrect to suggest that Christ's blood reedeemed us because his blood was not gotten from a human being. If Christ did not get his blood from a human being then you teach that he is not human. The teaching of Christ's humanity is central to all christendom. The reedeeming power of Christ's blood has to do with the "death of God". Like I said, God cannot die, hence the need for him to become ma, and as man he had everything a man has, including flesh and blood which he got from Mary by the power of the Holy spirit.

i.chuka:


Morning.
Adam and Christ are the only two persons that have live in these world without sin,

i.chuka:
so Mary's blood was never free from sin.

i.chuka:

How can Mary born of blood,the will of a man,and of the flesh..John1:13.blood mix with that of our Lord Jesus Christ?

chukwudi44: @ichuka

You are yet to answer my question.How did Jesus come to be a descendant of David according to the flesh as rightly described in rom 1:3

striktlymi: Good morning Chuka, I trust u had a lovely night's rest.
I must say some part of ur post are quite funny. I have attempted to respond to some of ur concerns below:




Chuka the above information is not correct. What exactly do you call sin? If you disobey God you have sinned. Adam was never free from sin. Adam disobeyed God at the garden of Eden, hence the 'curse' placed on him: 'from the sweat of your brow, you shall eat'.



Your quote above shows that you might be aware of the Catholic position that Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin i.e the sin of Adam and Eve. In other words Mary is the immaculate conception. This simply means that from the beginning, she was in a state of grace, sharing in God's own life, and that she was free from the sinful inclinations which have beset human nature after the fall of man. This is a dogma of the church I hold dear to my heart. Now the biblical basis:

There are two passages in Scripture which point us to this truth. We look first at Genesis 3.15, in which we see the parallel between Mary and Eve:

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed: he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

The Jews saw this passage as referring to the struggle between Christ and Satan. However, we see in "the woman" a prophetic foreshadowing of the Virgin Mary.

If there is to be complete enmity between the woman and the serpent, then she never should have been in any way subject to him even briefly. This implies an Immaculate conception. This is not Mary's doing. God intended it from the very beginning when he said he would put enmity between the woman and the serpent.

We can also reason from the text of Lk 1:28, in which the angel calls her "full of grace".
Most versions of the bible today do not use that rendering, but greatly weaken it. Yet it is the correct translation.

The word used in the original version is "charis", which can mean either favour or grace. But if we translate by favour, we must keep firmly in mind that favour must not mean merely that God, as it were, sits there and smiles at someone, without giving anything. That would be Pelagian: salvation possible without grace. So for certain, God does give something, and that something is grace.




To suggest that Jesus' blood never mixed with Mary's is to suggest that Jesus had blood before he came to Earth. Jesus is God and God does not have blood. So the issue of Jesus' (God's) blood mixing with Mary's does not even arise. Everything human about Jesus was gotten from Mary. Mary does not share in the Divinity of Christ but she shared in his humanity. The reason why Christ had to accept humanity was made very clear in Hebrews 2: 14-15:

"Since the children, as he calls them, are people of flesh and blood, Jesus himself became like them and shared their human nature. He did this so that through his death he might destroy the Devil, who has the power over death, 15 and in this way set free those who were slaves all their lives because of their fear of death."

That is, Jesus took flesh and blood (i.e he became like us human's who have flesh and blood) when he came to Earth. He did not bring blood with him cause he had no blood before he became man in the womb of Mary.


Thank you!

striktlymi: Good morning Chuka, I trust u had a lovely night's rest.
I must say some part of ur post are quite funny. I have attempted to respond to some of ur concerns below:




Chuka the above information is not correct. What exactly do you call sin? If you disobey God you have sinned. Adam was never free from sin. Adam disobeyed God at the garden of Eden, hence the 'curse' placed on him: 'from the sweat of your brow, you shall eat'.



Your quote above shows that you might be aware of the Catholic position that Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin i.e the sin of Adam and Eve. In other words Mary is the immaculate conception. This simply means that from the beginning, she was in a state of grace, sharing in God's own life, and that she was free from the sinful inclinations which have beset human nature after the fall of man. This is a dogma of the church I hold dear to my heart. Now the biblical basis:

There are two passages in Scripture which point us to this truth. We look first at Genesis 3.15, in which we see the parallel between Mary and Eve:

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed: he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

The Jews saw this passage as referring to the struggle between Christ and Satan. However, we see in "the woman" a prophetic foreshadowing of the Virgin Mary.

If there is to be complete enmity between the woman and the serpent, then she never should have been in any way subject to him even briefly. This implies an Immaculate conception. This is not Mary's doing. God intended it from the very beginning when he said he would put enmity between the woman and the serpent.

We can also reason from the text of Lk 1:28, in which the angel calls her "full of grace".
Most versions of the bible today do not use that rendering, but greatly weaken it. Yet it is the correct translation.

The word used in the original version is "charis", which can mean either favour or grace. But if we translate by favour, we must keep firmly in mind that favour must not mean merely that God, as it were, sits there and smiles at someone, without giving anything. That would be Pelagian: salvation possible without grace. So for certain, God does give something, and that something is grace.




To suggest that Jesus' blood never mixed with Mary's is to suggest that Jesus had blood before he came to Earth. Jesus is God and God does not have blood. So the issue of Jesus' (God's) blood mixing with Mary's does not even arise. Everything human about Jesus was gotten from Mary. Mary does not share in the Divinity of Christ but she shared in his humanity. The reason why Christ had to accept humanity was made very clear in Hebrews 2: 14-15:

"Since the children, as he calls them, are people of flesh and blood, Jesus himself became like them and shared their human nature. He did this so that through his death he might destroy the Devil, who has the power over death, 15 and in this way set free those who were slaves all their lives because of their fear of death."

That is, Jesus took flesh and blood (i.e he became like us human's who have flesh and blood) when he came to Earth. He did not bring blood with him cause he had no blood before he became man in the womb of Mary.


Thank you!

i.chuka:

Lift up your heads o ye gates,be lifted up ye everlasting doors that the *THE KING of GLORY*may come in.....Psalm24:7-10.
Bro,HE even took permission.

i.chuka:


You are still not getting it,Adam was created without sin and Christ was brought forth sinless.
The verse you quoted in Gen3 had nothing to do with Mary,but the Church in future manifestation.
My question to you is
1.was Mary born of the flesh?
2.does she have natural parents?
3.and was she born of the will of a man?
If your answer is yes,meaning she is a sinner even in her mothers womb.

chukwudi44:

Bros how does this verse answer my question?how on earth does it explain Jesus's descent from David's lineage?

striktlymi:

You allow your personal hatred for the mother of Jesus make you say things that are not true.

When you call someone a sinner, it implies that the person is sinful. What is your scriptural backing to this? If I call you a sinner, I bet you would be angry or if I call your mum a sinner, you would not take it lightly. You wouldn't even take it when someone call your pastor a sinner. But you dare address the mother of the one you call Lord and master in such a way? This is terrible indeed.

Because you have decided to allow your hatred for the mother of Jesus to cloud your better judgement, I will end my argument here in order not to encourage more blasphemies from you.

I bid you a lovely night's rest.