kasheemawo: ur are mixing it up dude,how is Christ? Was he not created by Almighty God........most of the Christians dont know the diff btw God(creator) and Jesus(mary son) except Jehovah witness group....God created Jesus d way he created Adam why not calling former too to be God..........christianity confused religion where everything contradict one another........now Christians wil be using Queen James version to preach that gay marriage is allowed.i no fit laugh jare.

I do not need someone who reads a plagiarized book to tell me about Christianity.

The rest of your book by the way is made up of fables and fairy tales, sometimes containing outrageous incidents, such as ants talking etc

Honestly , you guys should move forward into the 21st century !

frosbel:

I do not need someone who reads a plagiarized book to tell me about Christianity.

The rest of your book by the way is made up of fables and fairy tales, sometimes containing outrageous incidents, such as ants talking etc

Honestly , you guys should move forward into the 21st century !

were u not told that Jesus spoke from a cradle? Wil u call it a tale?

kasheemawo: were u not told that Jesus spoke in cradle? Wil u call it a tale?

Not in my bible.

Since where did babies start talking from the cradle, what are you Pal on

frosbel:

Not in my bible.

Since where did babies start talking from the cradle, what are you Pal on

sorry u be novice,lolllll

kasheemawo: ur eyes deemed? Is it only churches and mosques in the area? What abt other houses around the mosques? Did u see anything that touch d mosque even their pants were intact after the turbulent.

Come on, normal reasoning will tell you that these mosques were well structured in terms of their foundation. It‘s easier to raise money to build a well structured mosque because most people are muslims and the best site will be used for such contruction.

@ op we muslims do not rely on miracles or unnatural phenomenon to believe in Islam is the path that Allah choose for mankind. U need not waste your time with frosbel, a Christian who no longer believe in the trinity and probably believe that Jesus fainted on the cross . . we muslims rely on the truths of the Qur'an that elevated the servant of God Jesus to his true status free from adultrous ancestry, etc a Jesus that the bible claims called his own mother WOMAN and his elders vipers . . . Clearly has none of such claims labeled against him in the Qur'an

kasheemawo: were u not told that Jesus spoke from a cradle? Wil u call it a tale?

Where was it written that Jesus started speaking from craddle? An atheist won‘t even write such, let alone a supposed religious person like you.

@stalwert... What are you trying to deduce by saying Jesus called his mother ‘woman‘ and called elders ‘vipers‘ ? I know you don‘t want us to draw comparison between him and mohammed. Do you?

Alaafia l‘oro:

Come on, normal reasoning will tell you that these mosques were well structured in terms of their foundation. It‘s easier to raise money to build a well structured mosque because most people are muslims and the best site will be used for such contruction.

And your common sense was there when the mosque was constructed right? And somehow knows what materials were used in constructing the mosque? Or wait when you people do testimony in ur church how often do you guys use your common sense in reaching a conclusion that all that happened to you had nothing to do with God? Are you seeing the hypocrisy in your post?

Alaafia l‘oro:
@stalwert... What are you trying to deduce by saying Jesus called his mother ‘woman‘ and called elders ‘vipers‘ ? I know you don‘t want us to draw comparison between him and mohammed. Do you?

Again common sense dodges your writing how does this explains away why Jesus called his own mother woman? Or called his elders vipers (also called evil and adulterous generation, broads of snake etc) ? Wait by comparing him with Muhammad pbuh saves you from explaining why your God was rude as written by the bible and at the same time it again shows how the shallow reasoning of christians, which has long been avoid by all cost explaining what Jesus did etc! But feel free to compare the two atleast you would simply have reduced your supposed god to being a mere mortal who struggles hard to be better than others!

@stalwert.. Come on, you can reason better than this now. I don‘t need to be there because I know the way religious people contribute to build their places of worship. Religious people(especially those in the developing nations) contribute selflessly when constructing mosques/churches/shrines. Indonesia is not an exception.
As for testimonies, I don‘t get ur point because some of the testimonies are actually result of hardwork coupled with believe in God. But you can come up with an example if you don‘t agree.

@stalwert.. Well, there‘s no need for comparison again since you ignorantly concluded that doing so is degrading Jesus to the level of a pedo...lic mohammed.

Alaafia l‘oro:

Come on, normal reasoning will tell you that these mosques were well structured in terms of their foundation. It‘s easier to raise money to build a well structured mosque because most people are muslims and the best site will be used for such contruction.

were you there at the time of construction?

Alaafia l‘oro:
@stalwert.. Come on, you can reason better than this now. I don‘t need to be there because I know the way religious people contribute to build their places of worship. Religious people(especially those in the developing nations) contribute selflessly when constructing mosques/churches/shrines. Indonesia is not an exception.
As for testimonies, I don‘t get ur point because some of the testimonies are actually result of hardwork coupled with believe in God. But you can come up with an example if you don‘t agree.

Lol and finally the hypocrite came out of his shell, so you do not use your common sense when dealing with testimony but use when muslims are involved right? You are simply a waste of time. Since you were not there when the mosque was constructed neither have you provided any shred of evidence except your common sense which I have proven to be hypocritical and highly bigoted to be taken more serious that a snail just passing bye, we are left to believe that the mosque survived miraculously the tsunami, the same mosque provided shelter for many who sort refuge during tsunami! I know people like believe it is unchristian to reason for ones self but pls do!

@stalwert.. Well, I agree with you, may be Allah chose to protect mosques built by fair skinned indonesian but decided not to help during riots in kaduna where mosques (and churches) were burnt down, afterall fair skinned muslims are more important to allah more than the dark skinned ones.
On a lighter note, you said xtians don‘t make use of common sense, well may be common sense now has a different meaning because someone with common sense (like you indirectly said the muslims are) won‘t blow up himself to protect another person‘s interest, won‘t believe this crap we are arguing about, won‘t fight a lost cause (like bin laden did) , will believe in freedom of speech and religion etc.

Alaafia l‘oro:
@stalwert.. Well, there‘s no need for comparison again since you ignorantly concluded that doing so is degrading Jesus to the level of a pedo...lic mohammed.

Let me surmise the level of your intelligence:

Reasonable Alaafia: C - Alaafia your dad is a rude man

Christian Alaafia: do you want to make comparison, i.e let compare our dads!

R- Alaafia: but how does that prove your father is not rude?

So you see Alaafia, you literally confessed that Jesus was indeed to his own mother who jews till this day speak of in hideous wording. Way to go! it must be hard reading the prince of peace behaving in such a way. And the Qur'an removes such blame from Jesus and says clearly Jesus did not treat his mother as such!

Alaafia l‘oro:
@stalwert.. Well, I agree with you, may be Allah chose to protect mosques built by fair skinned indonesian but decided not to help during riots in kaduna where mosques (and churches) were burnt down, afterall fair skinned muslims are more important to allah more than the dark skinned ones.
On a lighter note, you said xtians don‘t make use of common sense, well may be common sense now has a different meaning because someone with common sense (like you indirectly said the muslims are) won‘t blow up himself to protect another person‘s interest, won‘t believe this crap we are arguing about, won‘t fight a lost cause (like bin laden did) , will believe in freedom of speech and religion etc.

Lol this is the price I have to pay for addressing your post. Since you agree the rest of your points are highly irrelevant, that is you again rely on christian hypocrisy how? They are actuall fair skinned muslim in kaduna, so how did you come to you dichotomy? You christians are the ones that say God of Israel offcourse meaning a God that came from Israel and is of jewish we muslim never say Allah of arab or Mecca? Why? Because God does not elevate any race above another. So don't pass your religious racial definition to Islam, thank you. And you know what? you are beginning to sound like an atheist, as your question can simply be asked what did the black man ever do to the god of Israel to remain the most backward sets of christians in christendom? You see before you go throwing stone ask your self do u live in a glass house? We muslims will tell, God decides to as he pleases, and his wisdom is beyond our comprehension, as the arabs could ask why did they find themselves in the desert and the blacks in the savanah or the indonesians could asked why did the Tsunami occur in their lands and not in kaduna? Hope you get my drift. And I did not get the point you were hinting at on your lighter note!

@stalwert.. Here we go again, you started by drawing Jesus into issue of sign seen on a baby, then I talked about comparison of him and that pedophile but you started writing gibberish. If there is no need for comparison, the original poster won‘t state anything like ‘islam being the only true religion‘ because in doing so he has indirectly compared it with other religions,since islam is not the only religion in the world or even indonesia.
As per your second post, I wonder why I sounded like an atheist to you for choosing to use common sense, I don‘t know using common sense is now exclusive to atheist. I chose to use the world ‘fair skinned‘ because I don‘t want to use the word ‘white‘ for arabs . So my point is white muslims are supposedly better than black muslims, the same way hausa muslims are supposedly more religious than yoruba muslims. That‘s one of the reasons why black muslim fight when ‘white‘ ones are in a fight with the US while there won‘t be any of such rection if it should be the other way.
I assume I am paying too much attention to this post because it‘s irrelevant.

You seem lost, after all your babble you hardly sold any semblance of sense and as usual dribbled and dodged all the questions asked! Good, that singular facts puts your position untenable. Till this very moment you have no defense on why the bible attributes rudness to Jesus, no what u have done so far is to say I cannot explain why the bible will do such . . . Interesting, then you move on to throw babble that made little sense like calling indonesia white when they can be termed only as being fair skinned . . . And you got your answer yet you keep confusing yourself . That is sad!

@stalwert.. Dogde question? Nope. I only decided to stop because we have derailed the topic. But to clear that,let me answer you: the story written about him in the bible is supposed to be fact, so why should the account of those action be omitted? Won‘t that change the essence of the book? Jesus is the son of God who came into earth as human, hence he only showed a quality of being human which in that case was a ‘well managed‘ anger. Don‘t you muslims teach that allah is ‘angry‘ towards infidels ? If what jesus did is a crime, why isn‘t allah‘s anger towards infidels crime?

Alaafia l‘oro:
@stalwert.. Dogde question? Nope. I only decided to stop because we have derailed the topic. But to clear that,let me answer you: the story written about him in the bible is supposed to be fact, so why should the account of those action be omitted? Won‘t that change the essence of the book? Jesus is the son of God who came into earth as human, hence he only showed a quality of being human which in that case was a ‘well managed‘ anger. Don‘t you muslims teach that allah is ‘angry‘ towards infidels ? If what jesus did is a crime, why isn‘t allah‘s anger towards infidels crime?

thrash

Still dribbling your way out of a simple question? It good your so called god can not do what simple descent humans can easily do, that is bear patiently with their mothers, Jesus was not speaking to an infidel, no he was addressing his own mum on whose account jews still insult till now, to then claim that Jesus was being human by calling his own mum woman and the further adding insults to injury by asking what have I to do with thee must be poorest excuse for bad manners any one can proffer, remeber the Qur'an says clearly Jesus wasn't that kind of person. If you were to teach your child about manners to ones mum which Jesus would you prefer to read to your child?

A. The one that says Jesus called his mother woman?

B. The one that says Jesus treated his mum right?

Be honest please!

kasheemawo: thrash

What‘s that for? Was I talking to you? Pls, get your manners right!
@stalwert... do you know anything like cultural differences? what do u think of those that literally call their father by his first name? is that a crime? is it a crime to call ur mother ‘woman‘ jokingly or even seriously? wasn‘t mary a woman? Don‘t make mountain out of a molehill.

You couldn't bring yourself to answer the question, how convenient! why is it so hard to answer very simple questions? Since your mother is a woman why don't you call her woman especially when it appears she is getting on your nerves or even jokingly? You see all your defense are not saving face at all! Have you heard of reading in the context? Coz the context clearly revealed how impolite such statement was! Truly imagine the CAN president addressing his mother in public, woman what have I to do with thee? Would you still consider him worthy of emulation?

The reaction of the mother should have given you a clue as to how less significant and inoffensive his speech was, which just back up my earlier point concerning cultural things. And for the example of CAN prexy you used, why should I feel offended since the word he used are not derogatory and his mother was not offended, there‘s no need taking medication for another person‘s headache. Your argument so far has been like beating the air. You can now stick to the topic. Goodnight.

I really don't need thses signs to validate my faith is Islam
However the way Christians argue against Islam is baffling. If miracles in Islam don't make sense, how will miracles in the Bible make sense to a person who is not a Christian or does not have faith
1. A voice suddenly coming from the sky to announce that "Jesus is the son of God" would be believed by an atheist?
2. Muslims don't compare Prophets (PBUT). We only relate what the Quran and Sunnah say about them and their actions especially those dealing with the lessons that those stories intend to teach.
3. A Christian declaring that Muslims are violent must be ready to accept that Christian are murderous
4. The idea of cultural difference and not taking drugs for another person's illness should be advice to Christians

Christian always argue that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) married an underaged girl. IF true, why is it the problem of a Christian (the taking drugs for another's ill health argument). The Prophet's inlaw did not complain. The Prophet (PBUH) had a lot of enemies. Yet not one of them accused him (PBUH) of marrying an underage girl. So in effect, the cultural difference argument is valid here

My point: all the people in the US talking about pedo.phi.lia today are great grandchildren of pedo.philes. Why? America's age of consent less than 300 years ago was less than 14
Our own generation taking 18 as age of consent would be called pe-do.philes if 200 years from now they move the age of consent to 21

http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/teaching-modules/230
An age of consent statute first appeared in secular law in 1275 in England as part of the rape law. The statute, Westminster 1, made it a misdemeanor to "ravish" a "maiden within age," whether with or without her consent. The phrase "within age" was interpreted by jurist Sir Edward Coke as meaning the age of marriage, which at the time was 12 years of age.

A 1576 law making it a felony to "unlawfully and carnally know and abuse any woman child under the age of 10 years" was generally interpreted as creating more severe punishments when girls were under 10 years old while retaining the lesser punishment for acts with 10- and 11-year-old girls. Jurist Sir Matthew Hale argued that the age of consent applied to 10- and 11-year-old girls, but most of England's North American colonies adopted the younger age. A small group of Italian and German states that introduced an age of consent in the 16th century also employed 12 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent
In the 12th century Gratian, the influential founder of Canon law in medieval Europe, accepted age of puberty for marriage to be between 12 and 14 but acknowledged consent to be meaningful if the children were older than 7. There were authorities that said that consent could take place earlier. Marriage would then be valid as long as neither of the two parties annulled the marital agreement before reaching puberty, or if they had already consummated the marriage. It should be noted that Judges honored marriages based on mutual consent at ages younger than 7, in spite of what Gratian had said; there are recorded marriages of 2 and 3 year olds.[2]

http://www.faqs.org/childhood/A-Ar/Age-of-Consent.html
For example in the parish of Middlesex County, Virginia, there is a record of fourteen-year-old Sarah Halfhide marrying twenty-one-year-old Richard Perrot. Only in the last sentence of the register does it indicate that she was a widow. Did the compiler read that far? We simply do not know what her age at first marriage was, or even if it had been consummated. Of the ninety-eight girls on the ten-year register, three probably married at age eight, one at twelve, one at thirteen, and two at fourteen. Historians in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries have sometimes been reluctant to accept data regarding young ages of marriage, holding instead that the recorded age was a misreading by a later copier of the records. Natalie Davis, whose book The Return of Martin Guerre became a movie, made her heroine, Bertrande, much older than the nine-to ten-year old girl she was when she married her missing husband.

In the nineteenth century France issued the Napoleonic Code and many other countries, following France's example, began revising their laws. The Napoleonic Code, however, had not changed the age of consent, which remained at thirteen.

Apologies for derailing

Defending pedophilés rights to hàve sex with children now are we? So you agree that your prophet had séx with a 6yr old child?

@betathings..
1.Why wld I expect an atheist to believe in miracle? An atheist doesn‘t believe in god(s) or supernatural things, so there‘s no need for such to believe things done by who he doesn‘t believe exists in the first place.
2. If you say muslims don‘t talk down on/compare prophets, you should have a re-think as your fellow muslim was the first to say Jesus(Isa) was rude, or is Jesus(isa) no more a prophet to u muslims? Or may be stalwert is not a real muslim?
3. As per christians being murderous, I know you will start citing examples of events(crusades) that happened many years ago. But what of the many wars and killings that mohammed himself carried out and the current activities of jihadists and islamic extremists alike that we witness everyday.
4. Well, everyone takes medicine for someone‘s headache, the way christians call mohammed ‘pedo.phille‘ can be countered by the way muslim rebuff the believe that ‘jesus is son of God‘, these are also similar to the way some atheists use every opportunity to claim their is no god and even fight people that claim there is. Most people do it, but that doesn‘t make it right.

@ betathings, u know what, this people are impervious to reason. That was why I asked Alaafia how often does he use his common sense in judging the testimony he hears in his church? No answer? But he was quick to apply his common sense in judging other situations, that is the level to which they are impervious to reasoning, I remember asking one what was the age of consent, how mouth was shut but preferred shouting pedophile unable to recognize that Mary will fall into the same category . . . the truth is stated but they have placed a seal on their reason.

@Alaafia, truly I laughed all the way, you simply showed that one gets no answer when dealing with you guys! I will tell if I was given the choice of picking on the biblical Jesus to set an example for the younger generations or the Qur'anic Jesus to set an example for the younger generations, I tell you Jesus of the Qur'an would be the best example.

Alaafia l‘oro:
@betathings..
1.Why wld I expect an atheist to believe in miracle? An atheist doesn‘t believe in god(s) or supernatural things, so there‘s no need for such to believe things done by who he doesn‘t believe exists in the first place.

There are a lot of miracles of Jesus in the Bible which are not in the Quran. I don't dispute them. Why? Because as a Muslim I believe in miracles. Were I an atheist (May Allah forbid that calamity) I would not believe any miracles. So what is the basis for a Christian believing those "strange" events in the Bible and not believing those in the Quran. Think about it, the miracle of creation cannot be surpassed!

Alaafia l‘oro:

2. If you say muslims don‘t talk down on/compare prophets, you should have a re-think as your fellow muslim was the first to say Jesus(Isa) was rude, or is Jesus(isa) no more a prophet to u muslims? Or may be stalwert is not a real muslim?

Have you read what he wrote? Carefully? He says that the BIBLE presents a poor picture of Jesus. Muslims don't believe that Bible account of that event. The Bible says that when the father of Joseph was told that his son was killed, he wept, tore his clothes and mourned for days! That is a prophet we are talking about. In the Quran when he was told about Prophet Yusuf's death, he told the sons that it was their plot and that he would be patient. So Muslims don't believe that a Prophet tore his clothes. So the issue in both cases is the Bible, not those Prophets

Alaafia l‘oro:

3. As per christians being murderous, I know you will start citing examples of events(crusades) that happened many years ago. But what of the many wars and killings that mohammed himself carried out and the current activities of jihadists and islamic extremists alike that we witness everyday.

Don't imagine what I will start. I will just say that 10 years ago, Palin said that the Iraqi was a task from God. I would add that as the US soldiers were matching on the streets of Iraqi they were shooting and shouting "Jesus killed Mohammed"
Most of the wars fought by the muslims were defensive. There is no Christian nation that does not have an army. They manufacture weapons of mass destruction. They are ready to attack first and have even done so to themselves.

Alaafia l‘oro:

4. Well, everyone takes medicine for someone‘s headache, the way christians call mohammed ‘pedo.phille‘ can be countered by the way muslim rebuff the believe that ‘jesus is son of God‘, these are also similar to the way some atheists use every opportunity to claim their is no god and even fight people that claim there is. Most people do it, but that doesn‘t make it right.

There are fundamental beliefs. They are subsidiary judgements
A muslim who calls ANYONE the son of God is no longer a muslim. So what you are asking is not acceptable.
But for you to say that calling Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) names is an immutable part of your faith is strange. I have a lot of Christian friends who do not so believe what you are saying or that it is not important to discussions
Saying that there is no god is not offensive. That is the core of an atheist's belief. And that is what I am trying to get him to give up. But his passing judgement on Allah and saying certain things about Allah will be unacceptable

So if you (Alaafia l‘oro) insist on insulting Allah and His Messenger (PBUH), I will stop talking to you.

Stalwert:
@ betathings, u know what, this people are impervious to reason. That was why I asked Alaafia how often does he use his common sense in judging the testimony he hears in his church? No answer? But he was quick to apply his common sense in judging other situations, that is the level to which they are impervious to reasoning, I remember asking one what was the age of consent, how mouth was shut but preferred shouting pedophile unable to recognize that Mary will fall into the same category . . . the truth is stated but they have placed a seal on their reason.

We should respectfully keep them honest. No abuse, no wild judgements. But just point out facts and inconsistencies in a polite manner

Allah is a magician. Every strange thing he does looks magical. There have been many arabic writings on trees, ground, air, animals and even humans.

The other time he wrote something at Idumota. Writing, writing and writing. Is he making up for Muhammad's inability to read and write? Since Allah likes writings so much, why did he pick illiterate Muhammad as his prophet?

What Allah is capable of doing is only writings here and there. He is not capable of empowering his faithfuls to heal the sick and raise the dead by words of prayer without resulting to magic (tira or charm).