uplawal: tbaba,what about the verse that says the children of Isreal should kill the people that disbelieved amonngs them if they want forgiveness from Allah?

tbaba1234: ^ So what have you proven with your post? This kind of ignorance worries me. I don't know if you are a christian, but if you are, you do know that the christian nation practiced a far more brutal aspect of the law for centuries.

It is not as simple as convert and get killed; that is not how it goes. No law is like that.

A number of conditions must be met:

First of all, it must be an Islamic state, most of the Muslim world are secular states. There is no true Islamic state in existence at the moment and the majority of muslims maintain their faith.

Also,leaving Islam and proselytizing another faith or carrying out acts to discredit Islam is treasonable.... Remember It is an Islamic state... If however you convert and mind your business; no one cares.

Thirdly, the person is not just executed, he speaks to the scholars about his doubts and is provided evidences about the divinity of the Quran so as to convince him, if that fails, he is threatened basically to shut him up from proselytizing disbelief in an Islamic state. If he relents, he is let go and can continue in his disbelief and live his normal life.

compare with

Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."


Christians practised a more brutal form of the law for centuries:::

The first thing to say is that in islam, there is no compulsion in religion, The Quran(translated) states:

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (Quran 2:256)

However in an Islamic state, there are certain conditions where conversion is accompanied with acts that could be considered treasonable by the state. The punishment for treason is death in most states.

The apostacy law came about during the time of the prophet;

In order to discredit Islam, some Jews in medina would accept islam in the day and leave by sunset; They continued to do so until the law was put in place.

Guess how many people did so the next day? None,

First of all, it must be an Islamic state, most of the Muslim world are secular states. There is no true Islamic state in existence at the moment and the majority of muslims maintain their faith.

Also,leaving Islam and proselytizing another faith or carrying out acts to discredit Islam is treasonable.... Remember It is an Islamic state... If however you convert and mind your business; no one cares.

In order to discredit Islam, some Jews in medina would accept islam in the day and leave by sunset; They continued to do so until the law was put in place.

Guess how many people did so the next day? None,

uplawal: TBABA,YOU HIT THEM HARD,EVEN AS A FORMER CHRISTIAN HAVE NEVER COME ACROSS THAT VERSE.VERY BRUTAL

tbaba1234: Wait, christians have no moral high ground here ... Is this a joke?? Every law has a procedure, nothing is black and white.

You should not come here and start preaching to us, go and read you own book... Do not come here preaching to us when you have what i would argue a more brutal version in your book. Something upheld by christians for centuries.

Deuteronomy
Chapter 13
KJV

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

THE PUNISHMENT FOR APOSTACY IN CHRISTIANITY IS DEATH...

Not only that... The one trying to convert you is also put to death...

Not only that.... whole cities are to be destroyed...

Do not come here with some moral high ground. You guys are the last people to talk about apostacy, all one has to do is open your history....

In fact It ends with the statement : KEEP ALL COMMANDMENTS...

What did Jesus (Peace be upon him) say about keeping commandments...

Luke 10:

18. A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
19. "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
20. You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.' "
21. "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
22. When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.

Jesus is telling a person to keep the commandments.... You know the commandments don't you??

Hold your lane, Christians are the LAST to talk about apostasy or freedom to convert. It is high time, you start reading your book.

In islam, there is a procedure. Part of which i have already highlighted...

vedaxcool: Thaba really it is lack of shame that makes these people repeat the same issue over and over again, the same individuals surface on exactly the same issue, getting the same answer over and over again, what troubling is the way christains explain away the old testament with out fear that they explaining away God if not how would God make a law that suddenly becomes so bad? It is this same people that would say God does not need anybody to fight for him yet leviticus in the old testament he orders beheading those who blaspheme him, we are seeing a pattern here that is christians typically choose what they want to follow the same way they choose churches that pay the lowest tithe, there is a huge problem in christianity and Islam did not cause it, I have told tirabubu that the verse no compulsion in religion - a verse not found in any other religious book, both implies you cannot compel a person to remain a muslim neither can you compel others to become muslims, yet it does not sink quite in! As for babadeen he is another of logicboy username, knowing his attecedents it is usually a waste of time expecting any worthwhile discussion as his thread are quite lame and barely intelligeable what is more disturbing is the numerous use of multiple ids, I mean where does honesty start with this sort of character? As typical with christians a single muslims opinion on an issue is binding, which of course is not the case! I can believe tirabubu says the God that revealed the OT and sent Jesus is wrong in ordering the death of apostates, tirabubu what else is that god wrong in? Smh!

Babadeen: Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17:
Narrated 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

tiarabubu:






Typical response! Christians too did it!!! Epic fail! Justifying Prophet Muhammad with the Bible and now justifying Islamic law through the Bible. An atheist has challenged you on that. Am sure Hindus, Pagans will soon take you up

What are you trying to achieve by quoting some Mosiac law to justify your position. Let me ask you some simple questions; do Christians sacrifice sheep too? Do we banish people for some diseases too? All these are Mosiac laws. Do we do that? Try something else.

Killing apostates is wrong in ALL its ramifications. A Sunni cleric Al-Qaradawi has just told us why it was needed: to keep Islam alive. Counter him. I want to be educated too!

maclatunji:

The rule can only be implemented by an Islamic state not an individual and the conditions and procedure are quite tough such that it is very difficult to implement most times. As for quoting 'Mosaic law', it really isn't rocket science. All prophets starting from Adam (AS) were Muslims, there is congruence in their fundamental teachings that can always be referenced.

Babadeen:


Smh.


What are these strict conditions because I didnt see them in the hadith or Quran.

If you are honest you would lay down where these conditions are written. Even Frosbel and the other christians will quote the bible to support their stance.

maclatunji:

You know little about Islam. The Qur'an and hadith are not the only sources of Islamic law (Sharia). They are the primary sources.

maclatunji: No, the Qur'an itself provides the basis for Ijma and Qiyas. Read this first www.letmeturnthetables.com/2012/05/punishment-apostasy-islam-rationale.html?m=1

maclatunji: Read this as well http://islamnewsroom.com/if-someone-leaves-islam-hot-topics-45

LagosShia: "And say: The truth is from your Lord, so let him who please believe, and let him who please disbelieve; " (Holy Quran 18:29)

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects Taghut and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." [2:256]


"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve, and then increase in their disbelief - Allah will never forgive them nor guide them to the path."[4:137].

based on (4:137),if a person is to be killed for apostacy,then how can he believe again after he disbelieves?

Apostacy in Islam carries the death sentence,if the act borders on treason against the Islamic state.

I've discussed that previously here:
https://www.nairaland.com/773960/iran-pastor-sentenced-death-refusing

Babadeen:


Gbam! Straight to the point.


Unfortuantely, you have no basis for that condition you put there. Apostates have been killed/punished many times without causing any trouble.

Salman Rushide......


As for the thread, Jesoul handed your Shia bottom to you

tbaba1234: ^ So what have you proven with your post? This kind of ignorance worries me. I don't know if you are a christian, but if you are, you do know that the christian nation practiced a far more brutal aspect of the law for centuries.

It is not as simple as convert and get killed; that is not how it goes. No law is like that.

A number of conditions must be met:

First of all, it must be an Islamic state, most of the Muslim world are secular states. There is no true Islamic state in existence at the moment and the majority of muslims maintain their faith.

Also,leaving Islam and proselytizing another faith or carrying out acts to discredit Islam is treasonable.... Remember It is an Islamic state... If however you convert and mind your business; no one cares.

Thirdly, the person is not just executed, he speaks to the scholars about his doubts and is provided evidences about the divinity of the Quran so as to convince him, if that fails, he is threatened basically to shut him up from proselytizing disbelief in an Islamic state. If he relents, he is let go and can continue in his disbelief and live his normal life.

compare with

Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."


Christians practised a more brutal form of the law for centuries:::

The first thing to say is that in islam, there is no compulsion in religion, The Quran(translated) states:

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (Quran 2:256)

However in an Islamic state, there are certain conditions where conversion is accompanied with acts that could be considered treasonable by the state. The punishment for treason is death in most states.

The apostacy law came about during the time of the prophet;

In order to discredit Islam, some Jews in medina would accept islam in the day and leave by sunset; They continued to do so until the law was put in place.

Guess how many people did so the next day? None,