What did Christ truly mean in Matthew 23 8-12. It has bothered me ever since I read it. And why do people say the anointing on a pastor is powerful when Christ clearly condemns it. Well that is to my understanding.

[quote
author=ogeelove]What did Christ truly mean in Matthew 23 8-12. It has
bothered me ever since I read it. And why do people say the anointing on
a pastor is powerful when Christ clearly condemns it. Well that is to
my understanding.[/quote]

I think d scripture doesnt go with d question, bt concerning anointing, it differs, mayb d way ppl put is wrong, bt it still do not d fact.

Get back 2 u later on dis verse n d anointing.

@ Ogeelove - in the passage you quoted Jesus was talking about the Scribes and the Pharisees. What they were doing as leaders were not right.
They include:
Do as I say and not do as I do
They added to people's problems rather than solving it.
They like to show off, or to be seen by men
They love the best seats in gatherings, I.e high table
They want the glory of being saluted and hailed as Rabbi across the town.

Jesus told his disciples that they should not do any of these and that He (Jesus) is the Greatest Teacher or the source of all knowledge. He equally told them not to be proud but be humble.

Nothing was said about anointing here neither did Jesus condemned it.
May The Lord grant you understanding!

King of Glory: @ Ogeelove - in the passage you quoted Jesus was talking about the Scribes and the Pharisees. What they were doing as leaders were not right.
They include:
Do as I say and not do as I do
They added to people's problems rather than solving it.
They like to show off, or to be seen by men
They love the best seats in gatherings, I.e high table
They want the glory of being saluted and hailed as Rabbi across the town.

Jesus told his disciples that they should not do any of these and that He (Jesus) is the Greatest Teacher or the source of all knowledge. He equally told them not to be proud but be humble.

Nothing was said about anointing here neither did Jesus condemned it.
May The Lord grant you understanding!

Hi. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I had 2 questions. The first was matt 23: 8-12. which states

'8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ,[a] and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted'.

I am quite aware that Jesus criticised the pharisees and saducees but he also gave instructions to us Christians as in the above verses. What I want to know is

1) Am I going against Christ's will if I call anyone my spiritual father? Am I reading the verse wrong?

2) If I say that the anointing of a pastor is powerful, am I not taking the focus away from Jesus by exalting a man?

These are my mullings.

Please I need answers that stem from a genuine need to gently push a sister in the right direction and not angry retorts.

Shalom

@ Ogeelove - In response to your questions please note the following:

(1) No Pastor that is truly serving God has an anointing of his own. God is the Great Anointed One who anoints us all. He makes His ministers flame of fire. So, a Pastor cannot be said to be powerful on His own without Christ except Christ is not the source of his power. To say that a Pastor is anointed of God does not mean that you are to take your focus away from Christ because He is the source of the anointing. The Pastor cannot do anything without Christ, we can only do all things through Christ that strengthens us. The Pastor can only pray, it takes God to answer, so no Pastor can stand side by side with God. Pastors are vessels unto Honour in the hands of God.
(2) The term "spiritual father" is generally used to refer to the one God used to lead you to Christ or establish you in the way of The Lord. A Pastor could be your "spiritual father" - a channel that God used to establish you in Christ but He is not your Heavenly Father. God is the Father of us all, but despite this we have our earthly or biological fathers and God commands us to Honour them, same goes for our spiritual fathers who are our spiritual leaders. We should Honour them but we must not worship them.

I do hope you are clear with these explanations.

ogeelove:


Hi. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I had 2 questions. The first was matt 23: 8-12. which states

'8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ,[a] and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted'.

I am quite aware that Jesus criticised the pharisees and saducees but he also gave instructions to us Christians as in the above verses. What I want to know is

1) Am I going against Christ's will if I call anyone my spiritual father? Am I reading the verse wrong?

Hey sis. How've you been? Did that prayer thing go well?

About your question, first it's important to keep in mind that the Gospel of Jesus Christ addresses the heart first. In fact, it addresses the heart exclusively because out of it are the issues of life. When a thing has been settled in the heart, the actions and words follow suit. That is why to make us Christians, God puts the Spirit of His Son inside us. Inside us is where the work is.

I say that because it affects how we are to understand what Jesus says. It isn't the external action of calling any man this or that that Jesus was particularly concerned with in that passage. It is the attitude of taking a man to be such and such to you when he ought not to be.

You see, tha Author and Finisher of each believer's Faith is Jesus Christ Himself not the brother or sister that helped them come to the Lord or the ones that were special helps to them as they grew up into the Lord or even the ones that lead their local fellowwship.

Recognition of this will help the believer to relate with such people as I have named right. It will help Paul not be misled by Peter or Barnabas while helping him submit to them. As long as the believer realizes that this man who fathers him does so for the Lord, his eyes will stay on the Lord rather than on the agency the Lord employs to help him.

That is what Jesus was teaching there. He was warning us not to make of ordinary man what only God is.

2) If I say that the anointing of a pastor is powerful, am I not taking the focus away from Jesus by exalting a man?

Honor should be given where honor is due, dear sis. If a brother is particularly useful in some way to you, it is Christlike to accord him the honor due to such usefulness.

It is no different than taking particular care of the car that serves you best whenever you have need of transport. The only thing to keep in mind is that the brother/sister is only a vessel in the service of the Lord.

You can applaud and hail a gallant knight for all his fighting prowess, but never crown him king in place of the true Sovereign. I'm sure you understand, sis.

Again, here, it is not the words you speak that are the issue, but the attitude of the heart from which they are spoken.

These are my mullings.

Please I need answers that stem from a genuine need to gently push a sister in the right direction and not angry retorts.

Shalom

Finally, eveb though it is not primarily about the words you speak and the names you call other believers, it is better to actually consciously refuse to use words and titles that your heart is not comfortable with.

I, for one, have not called any man my father in the Lord for years now not because actually calling someone that is wrong, but because my own peculiar self have a tendency to treat a man according to the name I call him or opinion I hold of him.

Grace be with you, dear sis.

Ihedinobi:

Hey sis. How've you been? Did that prayer thing go well?

About your question, first it's important to keep in mind that the Gospel of Jesus Christ addresses the heart first. In fact, it addresses the heart exclusively because out of it are the issues of life. When a thing has been settled in the heart, the actions and words follow suit. That is why to make us Christians, God puts the Spirit of His Son inside us. Inside us is where the work is.

I say that because it affects how we are to understand what Jesus says. It isn't the external action of calling any man this or that that Jesus was particularly concerned with in that passage. It is the attitude of taking a man to be such and such to you when he ought not to be.

You see, tha Author and Finisher of each believer's Faith is Jesus Christ Himself not the brother or sister that helped them come to the Lord or the ones that were special helps to them as they grew up into the Lord or even the ones that lead their local fellowwship.

Recognition of this will help the believer to relate with such people as I have named right. It will help Paul not be misled by Peter or Barnabas while helping him submit to them. As long as the believer realizes that this man who fathers him does so for the Lord, his eyes will stay on the Lord rather than on the agency the Lord employs to help him.

That is what Jesus was teaching there. He was warning us not to make of ordinary man what only God is.



Honor should be given where honor is due, dear sis. If a brother is particularly useful in some way to you, it is Christlike to accord him the honor due to such usefulness.

It is no different than taking particular care of the car that serves you best whenever you have need of transport. The only thing to keep in mind is that the brother/sister is only a vessel in the service of the Lord.

You can applaud and hail a gallant knight for all his fighting prowess, but never crown him king in place of the true Sovereign. I'm sure you understand, sis.

Again, here, it is not the words you speak that are the issue, but the attitude of the heart from which they are spoken.



Finally, eveb though it is not primarily about the words you speak and the names you call other believers, it is better to actually consciously refuse to use words and titles that your heart is not comfortable with.

I, for one, have not called any man my father in the Lord for years now not because actually calling someone that is wrong, but because my own peculiar self have a tendency to treat a man according to the name I call him or opinion I hold of him.

Grace be with you, dear sis.

You just put a smile on my face. Your answers are always very clear. Bless u. D-day takes place this week. Still don't know how I will lead. Happy Easter and expect more questions as I mull over what I read in the bible. Peace.

It's my joy, honor and privilege to serve you, sister dear.

I'll mention D-day to the Lord. I trust that He'll show you what to do.

Grace be with you.

Edit: happy Easter to you too, sis.

Ihedinobi: It's my joy, honor and privilege to serve you, sister dear.

I'll mention D-day to the Lord. I trust that He'll show you what to do.

Grace be with you.

Edit: happy Easter to you too, sis.

Tanx bro

@Ihedinobi. What kind of prayer did u say? Becos d day has come and gone without me participating. I cannot explain it to u. How was easter?

^^ Sister dear, thank the Lord o. I don't think it was any special sort o.

Easter went well. How was it for you, sis?

Ihedinobi: ^^ Sister dear, thank the Lord o. I don't think it was any special sort o.

Easter went well. How was it for you, sis?

Easter was good. partied GOD's way. Still got another to lead at month end.

Ok. Will cover you from this end.