Apart frm bin a religion of peace as widely known, islam is a complete way of life. Dia is no as in NO religion dat talks about how to do anything/evrything(eg how to relate with muslims n non muslims, biz transactns, politics marriage,......etc)oda dan islam tru d QURAN n HADITH(d teachings of prophet Muhammed pbuh).

Acting contrarily to wot was stated in d Quran(wch is a sin) or to d prophet teaching shows d Muslim isnt perfect and not d religion(ISLAM)

if all Muslims could act according to d Quran n d teachings of d prophet, over 90 percent of non muslims l accept ISLAM(Only God knows best)

bimbcy: Apart frm bin a religion of peace as widely known, islam is a complete way of life. Dia is no as in NO religion dat talks about how to do anything/evrything(eg how to relate with muslims n non muslims, biz transactns, politics marriage,......etc)oda dan islam tru d QURAN n HADITH(d teachings of prophet Muhammed pbuh).

Islam is perfect ?
I laugh in boko haram.

My good man, there are a lot of things wrong with your religion. The reason why you cannot see these wrong things is because you have been brainwashed to believe that Islam is perfect.
Many of your 'perfect' laws and guidelines were only added to the religion by the scholars after your prophet died.
Also, your perfect quran has guidelines on how to divorce prepubescent female children; quran 65 verse 4 and how to kill unbelievers unless they accept Islam ;quran 9 verse 5. That second verse was not abrogated by the way so don't come here to give me that bullshit about context.

Thanks 4 d response. Think u ignorant of d facts below wch i use to b ignorant of 2 not until 2yrs ago wen i was opportuned to live in 2 northern state:
1) Not all Northerners r Hausa
2) Not all Hausas r Muslim

So, u still think d acts by bokoharam is islamic.....am surprised, cant 4get 1 of dia major attack jan last yr @ kano wch affected mostly muslims, attack on d emir recently n odas... My guy bk hrm is political. May God save us from dis evil pple.

If d Quran has bin altered lyk any oda book, just wondering y avnt seen d revised editn, X versn, Y versn, Z versn ...... Dia is only 1 QURAN wch is d same world wide(God is gr8)

l advise u read Quran 65 from v1(pay more attentn wen reading v1) n Quran 9 from v1(pay more attention wen reading v4)

Thanks
God knows best

@Nl member.. The first verse is the exact opposite of your interpretation, it is either you consciouly overlook the theme it conveys or you are the type that copy & paste anything from the Islamaphobes site without verifying whether it is true or false. Try and read again.

Regarding surah tauba, the chapter itself was revealed addressing the hypocrisy of the kufr who break the peace-treaty between them & Muslims, if you read the verse that precede and the one that came after the need of accusing the Muslims will never arise.

Why was this thread moved to this section? I can't write all I want to write when the thread is here, it was better off in religion section.

WHξξ∟s:
@Nl member.. The first verse is the exact opposite of your interpretation, it is either you consciouly overlook the theme it conveys or you are the type that copy & paste anything from the Islamaphobes site without verifying whether it is true or false. Try and read again.

"Quran 65 verse 4 :And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease."

Please explain what the bolded part of that verse means to me. I am thirsty for knowledge.

WHξξ∟s:
Regarding surah tauba, the chapter itself was revealed addressing the hypocrisy of the kufr who break the peace-treaty between them & Muslims, if you read the verse that precede and the one that came after the need of accusing the Muslims will never arise.

"Quran 9 verse 5; And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

That verse does not say let them go when they no longer fight you or let themgo when they offer peace. It says let them go when they become muslims ie only spare their lives if they convert. Letting them live was not to be allowed unless they entered into Islam and carried out its obligation.

You are a xtian, right? The Iddah(3 month waiting period) is not part of your doctrine, regardless of that the verse at hand is addressing a standard phenomena which women experienced i.e HAILA(menstrual blood). Both the 3 categories of women in the verse are not menstruating, the first hit menopause, the 2nd is not in her menstrual cycle while the third was pregnant.

This condition(eumenorrhea) witnessed by women last for few days, usually 2-5 or 7, meaning women are free from this condition for the remaining days, and science also tells us women stop menstruating when they conceive. If the non menstruating women marry at the span of their iddah this will stir confusion regarding the paternity of the foetus but if she waited for 3 months all indications of her pregrancy(if there was any) will be noted.

I recently suggest you shall read the verses that precede and come after the ayat 5 for clarification, it is evident you fail to comply as seen in your post.

NL member: That verse does not say let them go when they no longer fight you or let themgo when they offer peace. It says let them go when they become muslims ie only spare their lives if they convert. Letting them live was not to be allowed unless they entered into Islam and carried out its obligation.

let me quote the verses, i hope you will get a bigger picture.

Verse 4: ''Except those of the Mushrikun with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves Al- Mattaqun.. Verse 4

The above advocates fulfilling the treaty with those who are sincere & those who did not fight the Muslims, and the Muslims obey this command in fighting only those who fought them.

Verse 6: And if anyone of the Mushrikun seeks your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Quran), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not.''

The bolded reminds me of one of Zakir naik's statement where he says the most generous army general can only let the enemy go but the Quran declare we shall not only let go of the enemy but we must also escort him to a place of security. May Allah guide us all.

WHξξ∟s:
You are a xtian, right? The Iddah(3 month waiting period) is not part of your doctrine, regardless of that the verse at hand is addressing a standard phenomena which women experienced i.e HAILA(menstrual blood). Both the 3 categories of women in the verse are not menstruating, the first hit menopause, the 2nd is not in her menstrual cycle while the third was pregnant.
This condition(eumenorrhea) witnessed by women last for few days, usually 2-5 or 7, meaning women are free from this condition for the remaining days, and science also tells us women stop menstruating when they conceive. If the non menstruating women marry at the span of their iddah this will stir confusion regarding the paternity of the foetus but if she waited for 3 months all indications of her pregrancy(if there was any) will be noted.

Asalamalaiku arrahmatullahi wabarakatu!!!!!
I just have to salute you with the Islamic salutation of peace because this your lie is too much for me to handle.
Asalamalaiku my brother

Look, I know the truth can be bitter sometimes but we cannot live in denial all our lives, we have to face reality sometime. The Quran is clearly prescribing waiting period for prepubescent children in that verse. The verse has nothing to do with eumenorrhea or women that are not in their menstrual periods. You know about tafsir right? You know what tafsir means not so?
Good. Let me post the tafsir of your notable scholars regarding that verse.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. [see 2:228] The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause.
Tafsir al-Jalalayn
And [as for] those of your women who (read allā’ī or allā’i in both instances) no longer expect to menstruate, if you have any doubts, about their waiting period, their prescribed [waiting] period shall be three months, and [also for] those who have not yet menstruated, because of their young age, their period shall [also] be three months — both cases apply to other than those whose spouses have died; for these [latter] their period is prescribed in the verse: they shall wait by themselves for four months and ten [days] [Q. 2:234]
Tafsir al-Kabir by Ar-Razi
A man stood and asked: ‘O messenger of Allah, what is the period (Iddah) of the young girl who has not yet menstruated?’ Then Allah revealed {and those who have not menstruated yet}, meaning that her Iddah is like the old-aged woman who reached her menopause
Tafsir Al-Qurtubi
...."and those who have not menstruated yet" Meaning the young girl.
Note: In the verse, the word “young” (as-sagheerah) denotes a girl who did not reach the age of puberty yet. Learn your Arabic my guy

WHξξ∟s:
let me quote the verses, i hope you will get a bigger picture.
Verse 4: ''Except those of the Mushrikun with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them to the end of their term. Surely Allah loves Al- Mattaqun.. Verse 4
The above advocates fulfilling the treaty with those who are sincere & those who did not fight the Muslims, and the Muslims obey this command in fighting only those who fought them.

I'll let this one go, I'm not gonna argue it.
I don't want any extremist Muslims out there believing that the Quran actually advocates violence towards non believers.

NL member: Asalamalaiku arrahmatullahi wabarakatu!!!!! I just have to salute you with the Islamic salutation of peace because this your lie is too much for me to handle. Asalamalaiku my brother

Wa alaika assalam.

NL member: Note: In the verse, the word “young” (as-sagheerah) denotes a girl who did not reach the age of puberty yet. Learn your Arabic my guy

The transliteration of the ayah[4] goes:

''WAALLA EE YA ISNA MINA ALMAHEEDI MIN NISA IKUM INI IRTABTUM FAAAIDDATUHUNNA THALATHATU ASHHURIN WAALLA EE LAM YAHIDNA WAOLATU AL AHMALI AJALUHUNNA AN YADAAANA HAMLAHUNNA WAMAN YATTAQI ALLAHA YAJAAAL LAHU MIN AMRIHI YUSRAN''.

I would like you to point out where it mentions as sagheerah in the above, you boast that i dont know Arabic and i am a liar, good for you. But now I am giving you another chance to expose my lies by pointing that word in the above.

NL member: The Quran is clearly prescribing waiting period for prepubescent children in that verse. The verse has nothing to do with eumenorrhea or women that are not in their menstrual periods.

You wish that will happen, but you can still succeed only if the verse at hand mentions sagheerah. I will wait for your response before dealing with the Mufassireen.

WHξξ∟s:

You wish that will happen, but you can still succeed only if the verse at hand mentions sagheerah. I will wait for your response before dealing with the Mufassireen.

First of all, I do not support pedophylia and I do not in any way wish that it would happen.
Secondly, I can only succeed if the verse mentions sagheerah?
What about what your tafsirs say? Except you want to tell me that the tafsirs are wrong and your own personal interpretation is the correct one.
I was talking about the tafsir when I mentioned sagheerah. I wasn't talking about the quran, sincerely sorry for the mix up.

NL member: First of all, I do not support pedophylia and I do not in any way wish that it would happen.

Islam do not condone this as well, and as a matter of fact the Quran recommends Muslims to marry off even the Orphans in their custody when they attain discerning age. AN NISA 3-5.

NL member: Secondly, I can only succeed if the verse mentions sagheerah? What about what your tafsirs say? Except you want to tell me that the tafsirs are wrong and your own personal interpretation is the correct one.

None of the mufassireen has the right to add sageerah in their commentary, a word which cant be found in the context of the Ayah, and this verse is self-explanatory seeing it addressess the NISA which the quran in surah nisa :4 say ''And give the women [upon marriage] their [bridal] gifts graciously. But if they give up willingly to you anything of it, then take it in satisfaction and ease..'

There is no ambiguity in this verse, it says every woman that is going to be married off must be given dowry, but returning willingly a bride-price is something that only a woman with sound judgement could do, therefore prepubescent brides aren't referred in Talaq:4.

NL member: I was talking about the tafsir when I mentioned sagheerah. I wasn't talking about the quran, sincerely sorry for the mix up.

The Op himself wants to bring to notice the imperfection of the Muslims or humans as whole and this was one of the reasons that makes me not to believe all things the Mufassireen[humans] say and choose to obey the Quran because i know fully well the Hadiths & Tafsirs have discrepancies. I doubt if the first Mufassireen[ibn kathir] narrate what you posted, cos that contradicts not only some of his works am aware of but the Quran also.

The other tafsirs do not clarify how they come to the conclusion that the verse talks of sagheerah but the Quran is lucid on this as it explicity details who a marriagable lady was in surah an Nisa. I think they rely on the hadith you posted which mentions ''a man stood and asked: ‘O messenger of Allah, what is the period (Iddah) of the young girl who has not yet menstruated. But this hadith has no Isnad whatsoever which makes me doubts its authenticity, it only mentions a Man, but who is this man? Al-Wahidi in one of his works Quotes Muqatil saying a dude named Kallad ibn al-Nu‘man ibn Qays al-ansari was the one who asked the above and in his same asbab al-nuzul he also quote another man[Abu Ishaq al-muqri] who told other people that another dude with the name Ubay Ibn Khab was the one who asked the question. After reading the above you can concur to the fact that this hadith is Dai'f[weak] or Maudu[fabricated] as it contains transmission error. May Allah guide us all.

WHξξ∟s:

Islam do not condone this as well, and as a matter of fact the Quran recommends Muslims to marry off even the Orphans in their custody when they attain discerning age. AN NISA 3-5.

This doesn't change the fact that the verse gives guidelines on how to divorce prepubescent infants.

WHξξ∟s:
None of the mufassireen has the right to add sageerah in their commentary, a word which cant be found in the context of the Ayah, and this verse is self-explanatory seeing it addressess the NISA which the quran in surah nisa :4 say ''And give the women [upon marriage] their [bridal] gifts graciously. But if they give up willingly to you anything of it, then take it in satisfaction and ease..'
There is no ambiguity in this verse, it says every woman that is going to be married off must be given dowry, but returning willingly a bride-price is something that only a woman with sound judgement could do, therefore prepubescent brides aren't referred in Talaq:4.

Then this means that there are contradictions in your book because that verse is definitely talking about prepubescent children. I can however, understand your unwillingness to accept this fact.
Even your tafsir scholars agree with me so please stop living in denial.

WHξξ∟s:
The Op himself wants to bring to notice the imperfection of the Muslims or humans as whole and this was one of the reasons that makes me not to believe all things the Mufassireen[humans] say and choose to obey the Quran because i know fully well the Hadiths & Tafsirs have discrepancies.

You want to reject hadith? But the quran says you should obey your prophet! The words of your prophet; his guidelines and advice to muslims, are in the hadith, therefore rejecting hadith would be rejecting the quran.
The exact translation of this portion of Qur'an 65:4 is "not menstruated yet" it isn't "not menstruating". There is a difference between both terms. The first one refers to those who have not experienced menstruation yet. It is not talking about those who are not currently menstruating.

WHξξ∟s:

I doubt if the first Mufassireen[ibn kathir] narrate what you posted, cos that contradicts not only some of his works am aware of but the Quran also.

Google ibn kathir tafsir of that verse to confirm if you doubt me.

WHξξ∟s:

May Allah guide us all.

Ameen!!!

NL member: This doesn't change the fact that the verse gives guidelines on how to divorce prepubescent infants. Then this means that there are contradictions in your book because that verse is definitely talking about prepubescent children. I can however, understand your unwillingness to accept this fact.

Not at all, thats why i said the Quran is lucid on this when i quote an Nisa:4 and the verse in at talaq is self explanatory also seeing it addressess Nisa not sagheerah

NL member: Even your tafsir scholars agree with me so please stop living in denial.

When the Quran explicitly deliniate an account the Muslims stand is unambiguous and the account has to be received unanimously, the tafsir on the other hand contains fables and uninspired tales. Quran prescribe condition of talaq for various women and their Iddah but the Mufassireen contradict themselves most times, and we all agree the Quran has authority over the mufassireen that is why i accept only what concur with the Quran.

NL member: You want to reject hadith?

Those are your words not mine, you dont have to put them on my mouth, it is hypocrisy. this is my take on the hadith:

WHξξ∟s:
this was one of the reasons that makes me not to believe all things the Mufassireen[humans] say and choose to obey the Quran because i know fully well the Hadiths & Tafsirs have discrepancies

NL member: But the quran says you should obey your prophet! The words of your prophet; his guidelines and advice to muslims, are in the hadith,

Rejecting piffle attributed to him in the hadith which was not found in the Quran is part of obeying Allah's command thats why the urge of veryfying the isnad of a hadith was necessary. Something you are ignorant of.

NL member: therefore rejecting hadith would be rejecting the quran

This hadith has no authentic Isnad, an issue i dealt with already:

WHξξ∟s:

The other tafsirs do not clarify how they come to the conclusion that the verse talks of sagheerah but the Quran is lucid on this as it explicity details who a marriagable lady was in surah an Nisa. I think they rely on the hadith you posted which mentions ''a man stood and asked: ‘O messenger of Allah, what is the period (Iddah) of the young girl who has not yet menstruated. But this hadith has no Isnad whatsoever which makes me doubts its authenticity, it only mentions a Man, but who is this man? Al-Wahidi in one of his works Quotes Muqatil saying a dude named Kallad ibn al-Nu‘man ibn Qays al-ansari was the one who asked the above and in his same asbab al-nuzul he also quote another man[Abu Ishaq al-muqri] who told other people that another dude with the name Ubay Ibn Khab was the one who asked the question. After reading the above you can concur to the fact that this hadith is Dai'f[weak] or Maudu[fabricated] as it contains transmission error.

NL member: The exact translation of this portion of Qur'an 65:4 is "not menstruated yet" it isn't "not menstruating". There is a difference between both terms.

The verse has a clear structure and i think urgent refund is needed if your English teacher was alive, a husband who divorces his wife on the 20th of a month if asked wether she was having Haila at that moment would say she was not menstuarating or she has not menstruated yet knowing fully well that the HAILA do not fall in those days.

NL member: The first one refers to those who have not experienced menstruation yet. It is not talking about those who are not currently menstruating.

The worse thing that can happen to a man in any discourse is not having a knowledge of what is being discussed but still takes part, those women who have not experienced menstruation before are not capable of sexual production, this fact is medically proved, but few verses after ayat:4 in that same chapter refute this allegation of yours and backed surah an Nisa.

Verse 6 states: Lodge them [in a section] of where you dwell out of your means and do not harm them in order to oppress them. And if they should be pregnant, then spend on them until they give birth. And if they breastfeed for you, then give them their payment and confer among yourselves in the acceptable way; but if you are in discord, then there may breastfeed for the father another woman.

The bolded is enough prove to disinfest your delusion, it unambiguosly detailed divorced women[not pregnant at the time] whom at the span of their Iddah the developing foetus in their womb became vividly known, and procreation is possible only if a woman hit puberty.

NL member: Google ibn kathir tafsir of that verse to confirm if you doubt me.

Ibn kathir is a knowledgeable person and he knows this custom pre-dates Islam, even those kufrs who favor this has disposed it after embracing Islam. Through the medieval Islamic era before Hijra this tradition was abolished, meaning those who embrace Islam do not practice it and those that practiced before stopped practicing any longer. Refer to Ibn kathir's Al bidayah wan nihayah, volume 8 precisely. Thus, if Ibn kathir really wrote that we can say he contradicts his self and this show how imperfect we were.

WHξξ∟s:

This hadith has no authentic Isnad, an issue i dealt with already:

It is a Sahih hadith. Sahih hadith are considered very accurate. How can you claim that the hadith is weak when Sahih hadith ususally have soundness and quality in its chain of narrators? Maybe you are mistaking the hadith I posted for another one. Let me post the full hadith;
Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 63:
Narrated Sahl bin Sad: While we were sitting in the company of the Prophet a woman came to him and presented herself (for marriage) to him. The Prophet looked at her, lowering his eyes and raising them, but did not give a reply. One of his companions said, "Marry her to me O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet asked (him), "Have you got anything?" He said, "I have got nothing." The Prophet said, "Not even an iron ring?" He Sad, "Not even an iron ring, but I will tear my garment into two halves and give her one half and keep the other half." The Prophet; said, "No. Do you know some of the Quran (by heart)?" He said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "Go, I have agreed to marry her to you with what you know of the Qur'an (as her Mahr)." 'And for those who have no courses (i.e. they are still immature). (Qur'an 65.4) And the 'Iddat [waiting period before remarriage] for the girl before puberty is three months (in the above Verse).

[The last lines are what the man knows of the Quran.]

You can google that hadith up to confirm that it is Sahih and sound. The way I wrote it there is the exact same way it is recorded in the hadith books, I didn't add anything and I didn't remove anything.

WHξξ∟s:
but few verses after ayat:4 in that same chapter refute this allegation of yours and backed surah an Nisa.
Verse 6 states: Lodge them [in a section] of where you dwell out of your means and do not harm them in order to oppress them. And if they should be pregnant, then spend on them until they give birth. And if they breastfeed for you, then give them their payment and confer among yourselves in the acceptable way; but if you are in discord, then there may breastfeed for the father another woman.

The bolded is enough prove to disinfest your delusion, it unambiguosly detailed divorced women[not pregnant at the time] whom at the span of their Iddah the developing foetus in their womb became vividly known, and procreation is possible only if a woman hit puberty.

My good man, the bolded is not enough to disinfest anything and I am not deluded. Let me post the three chapters regarding waiting period so we can go through them together and find out what verse 6 actually means

Surat Aţ-Ţalāq Verse 4: And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease. 5:That is the command of Allah , which He has sent down to you; and whoever fears Allah - He will remove for him his misdeeds and make great for him his reward. 6:Lodge them [in a section] of where you dwell out of your means and do not harm them in order to oppress them. And if they should be pregnant, then spend on them until they give birth. And if they breastfeed for you, then give them their payment and confer among yourselves in the acceptable way; but if you are in discord, then there may breastfeed for the father another woman.

The 4th verse gives the waiting period for the three categories of divorced wives which includes pregnant women. The 5th verse talks about fearing Allah. The 6th verse then continues with the procedures involved in carrying out waiting period. It goes on to say that divorced wives should be lodged by their husbands until they finish their waiting periods. All the three categories of divorced wives that were mentioned in verse 4 (menopausal, prepubescent and pregnant female), verse 6 says that these wives should be lodged in their husbands dwellings until their waiting period expires and if it happens that a pregnant woman is the one being held in her husband's dwelling for that waiting period, she should be taken care of until she gives birth and not until the end of her waiting period unlike the other two categories that should be taken care of and housed for only the duration of their waiting periods.
The verse doesn't disprove my point.
It only says that divorced pregnant wives should be catered for until they give birth unlike menopausal women and prepubescent children that should be catered for only for the duration of the waiting period. Nothing more.

WHξξ∟s:
Ibn kathir is a knowledgeable person and he knows this custom pre-dates Islam, even those kufrs who favor this has disposed it after embracing Islam. Through the medieval Islamic era before Hijra this tradition was abolished, meaning those who embrace Islam do not practice it and those that practiced before stopped practicing any longer. Refer to Ibn kathir's Al bidayah wan nihayah, volume 8 precisely. Thus, if Ibn kathir really wrote that we can say he contradicts his self and this show how imperfect we were.

Forget Ibn Kathir and take the tafsirs of the numerous other scholars who also interpreted the verse to mean the same thing. Are they all wrong? Is every single one of the scholars wrong while your own opinion is correct?
I have not come across one single tafsir that gives a different interpretation to that verse. Every tafsir I have seen says that the verse is most definitely giving guidelines on how to divorce prepubescent children and you are the first person I have come across that rejects all the tafsir of your notable scholars and gives his own interpretation to the verse.
Do not twist the words of Allah wheels, do not invent bidiah in Islam.....Allah is watching you.

Authentic indeed!

NL member: [The last lines are what the man knows of the Quran.]

You always fall short whenever you try to find a logical reason efficient enough to back your claims, this is qwerty[keyboard] abuse mr. My first reply in this thread is centered on advicing you to read and research well before commenting but you always rebel to comply with this homily. The account of this man is repeated in that same sahih bukhari not less than 5 times in volume 7 book 52 alone, and each account does not limit his memorization to ONE verse only, his responses is always in the affirmative. Volume 7, Book 62, Numbers 54,58,66,72, and 79 says the man knows numerous surahs that he was able to recite by heart.

NL member: You can google that hadith up to confirm that it is Sahih and sound. The way I wrote it there is the exact same way it is recorded in the hadith books, I didn't add anything and I didn't remove anything.

Hm, i provided references as to why that hadith[first 1] was dai'f which makes me doubts its authenticity but you end up Quoting another different hadith whose irrelevance to that[Hadith] you recently post is unambiguous. This hadith you post states the Prophet(s.a.w) conjoin two people in matrimony seeing the Male has memorised some portion of the Quran[Surahs], does giving Mahr of Surahs to a matured lady who proposed to a man openly sound like divorcing prepubescent ladies to you? Or you are insinuating he was wrong when he memorized Quranic chapters & verses? This is the negative effect of copying & pasting when one has no knowledge of the matter at hand, the farther he goes the more he disgraces himself.

NL member: surah at talaq 4-6

An utter negligence again! Verse 6 say and if they should be pregnant, keep it in mind verse 4 has already indicated precisely that the husband was alerted his wife is pregnant at the time of divorce [ And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth ] in your logic, do pregnant women still conceive simultaneously? What you are implying is a man who divorced his pregnant wife will again notice another pregnancy which he knows not at the time of seperation. Women dont have dual tummy do they? Science tells us at the span of the Iddah their pregnancy[if there was] would be revealed/exposed and that will warrant the husband to cater them but if the divorce takes place when she was pure and do not conceive cos the husband did not went into her, then the Iddah is span of those days. Pls dont tell me you belong to the category of those that think the prepubescent girls are only the ones who doesn't menstruate among women.

NL member: Forget Ibn Kathir and take the tafsirs of the numerous other scholars who also interpreted the verse to mean the same thing.

That was matter of opinion and it is at my disposal to decide, you dont have to force it on me.

NL member: Are they all wrong? Is every single one of the scholars wrong while your own opinion is correct?

Tons of scholars coincided to give exact opposite of those scholars, so that will not be wheels opinion.

NL member: I have not come across one single tafsir that gives a different interpretation to that verse. Every tafsir I have seen says that the verse is most definitely giving guidelines on how to divorce prepubescent children and you are the first person I have come across that rejects all the tafsir of your notable scholars and gives his own interpretation to the verse

It doesn't necessarily mean i will be the last person also or those tafsirs were the only tafsirs available in the cosmos, something you overlooked. For a good start consider visiting one of the mosques at your domicile and borrow Tafhim al Quran by sheikh Maududi or ask your Muslim friends if they have a copy.

I will see to it whether it was made available on the net and if one can download and read offline also.

WHξξ∟s:
Authentic indeed!
You always fall short whenever you try to find a logical reason efficient enough to back your claims, this is qwerty[keyboard] abuse mr. My first reply in this thread is centered on advicing you to read and research well before commenting but you always rebel to comply with this homily. The account of this man is repeated in that same sahih bukhari not less than 5 times in volume 7 book 52 alone, and each account does not limit his memorization to ONE verse only, his responses is always in the affirmative. Volume 7, Book 62, Numbers 54,58,66,72, and 79 says the man knows numerous surahs that he was able to recite by heart.

Wait a minute.

Are you saying,

That there are actually more than one hadith that say the verse refers to prepubescent children?

Are you actually telling me that,

Two different hadith have agreed with my claim?

LMFAO.

I, in my limited knowledge of Islam, was assuming that there was only one hadith that speaks of the matter and I thought the first hadith one was the same as the second one.
Boy was I wrong.
Two seperate hadith have verified my claims now. One of them beign a sahih buhari hadith which is regarded as an extremely sound type of hadith in Islamic circles.

WHξξ∟s:
The account of this man is repeated in that same sahih bukhari not less than 5 times in volume 7 book 52 alone, and each account does not limit his memorization to ONE verse only, his responses is always in the affirmative. Volume 7, Book 62, Numbers 54,58,66,72, and 79 says the man knows numerous surahs that he was able to recite by heart.

This statement is an embarrassment, considering how highly regarded Sahih Buhari hadith are. So they contain contradictions and mistakes and yet they are regarded as very sound in Islam?
Besides, you have not said that the man gave a different interpretation to the verse in question,
you have not said that he interpreted the verse to mean mature women. All you have said is that in some hadith, the man in question knew more than one surah.
Did the man in question say that the verse was talking about mature women(and not children) in any sahih hadith?

WHξξ∟s:
This hadith you post states the Prophet(s.a.w) conjoin two people in matrimony seeing the Male has memorised some portion of the Quran[Surahs], does giving Mahr of Surahs to a matured lady who proposed to a man openly sound like divorcing prepubescent ladies to you? Or you are insinuating he was wrong when he memorized Quranic chapters & verses? This is the negative effect of copying & pasting when one has no knowledge of the matter at hand, the farther he goes the more he disgraces himself.

I find it a bit difficult to understand your grammar, no offense.
I never said that the man in the hadith divorced prepubescent children. Please, I implore you to read the things I write very carefully.
I said that the man in the hadith recited that portion of the quran as the only portion he knew, he recited it as the part of the quran he knew and could thus, use as mahr to the woman. I never said he divorced anybody.
Also, can you show me one part of the quran where the age limit of all women for receiving mahr is stated?
Thanks.

WHξξ∟s:
An utter negligence again! Verse 6 say and if they should be pregnant, keep it in mind verse 4 has already indicated precisely that the husband was alerted his wife is pregnant at the time of divorce [ And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth ] in your logic, do pregnant women still conceive simultaneously? What you are implying is a man who divorced his pregnant wife will again notice another pregnancy which he knows not at the time of seperation. Women dont have dual tummy do they? Science tells us at the span of the Iddah their pregnancy[if there was] would be revealed/exposed and that will warrant the husband to cater them but if the divorce takes place when she was pure and do not conceive cos the husband did not went into her, then the Iddah is span of those days. Pls dont tell me you belong to the category of those that think the prepubescent girls are only the ones who doesn't menstruate among women.

Alright, if I get you correctly, you are saying that pregnancy can be revealed during the waiting period therefore it means that there must be a possibility for those who are in waiting period to get pregnant. I understand this part.
However, that doesn't mean the verse is not referring to prepubescent children.
It is very possible for a non menstruating girl to get pregnant except that pregnancy in her case would occur immediately before her first period.
It has to do with which comes first, in order to have aperiod, a woman must produce an egg. If she produces an egg then that egg can become fertilized and she would become pregnant but if it does not become fertilized, thenshe has a menstrual period. Pregnancy could occur immediately she produces her very first egg, before she starts to menstruate. Look it up if you don't understand the explanation I gave here.
Also,going by your interpretation of the verse, pregnancy could also be expected from menopausal women. Menopause does not necessarily denote the end of a woman's fertility and there have been several cases of a menopausal woman becoming pregnant and giving birth to children.

WHξξ∟s:
That was matter of opinion and it is at my disposal to decide, you dont have to force it on me.

My muslim brother! Asalamalaiku!
I don't intend to force anything on you and I fully believe that you have the right to believe whatever makes you confortable with Islam.
Infact, I would have abandoned this argument long apo and left you with your beliefs but the thing is when you tell me that my opinions are wrong or that I made a mistake in somethingI said before, I just have to come back to clarify what I wrote before and clear my name, I cannot leave statements like that unanswered.

WHξξ∟s:
Tons of scholars coincided to give exact opposite of those scholars, so that will not be wheels opinion.
It doesn't necessarily mean i will be the last person also or those tafsirs were the only tafsirs available in the cosmos, something you overlooked. For a good start consider visiting one of the mosques at your domicile and borrow Tafhim al Quran by sheikh Maududi or ask your Muslim friends if they have a copy.

Did you just bring up Sheikh Maududi tafsir?
Sheikh Maududi?

LMAO

Sheikh Maududi that wrote his tafsie barely 50 years ago,
You prefer his own interpretation to that of Ibn Kathir, one of the respected and renowned tafsir authors in Muslim circles?
Sheikh Muadudi that cannot hold a candle to Ibn Kathir when it comes to tafsir works?

Annnnyyyywayyyyy............


Believe what you like my man. I am not forcing you to accept that the verse is talking about divorcing children even though I know for a fact that it is.
You are free to live in any kind of denial you like