kambo:

mister , pls dnt dceiv urself or let anybody dcve u. The story of lazarus is a reality. There's nothg like soul sleep etc thnk of jesus comment on d cross to d repentant theif: "today you will b with me in paradise".. So tht theif's spirit was not soul sleepg. If it was a parable, it wud hav been titled d parable of d richman and lazarus. Jesus said lazarus died and was carried to Abraham, if this isnt so Jesus lied.
It must b so.
Apostle paul said he is torn btw 2 options, to die and go be with christ or to stay.. He didnt say to die and soulsleep.

Thanks dear. Even the thief at the cross, Jesus told him- today you will be with me in paradise. So was Jesus drunk when he said that or did he forget the statement he made about going to prepare a place for us? For Jesus to tell a dying thief who just repented at the cross that he will be with him in paradise clearly supports the story of Lazarus and the rich man that there is a place after death. Call it paradise or bossom of Abraham for the righteous if you want and hell for sinners. When Jesus talked about being with the man in paradise, surely he wasn't talking about the grave. Paradise does not mean grave. Every statement that Jesus made in the scriptures stands and none cancels the other. For someone to try to use one to cancel the other as they are doing portrays their desperate effort to satisfy their no-hell-emotions and I won't be part of it. God bless u.

alexleo:

Thanks dear. Even the thief at the cross, Jesus told him- today you will be with me in paradise. So was Jesus drunk when he said that or did he forget the statement he made about going to prepare a place for us? For Jesus to tell a dying thief who just repented at the cross that he will be with him in paradise clearly supports the story of Lazarus and the rich man that there is a place after death. Call it paradise or bossom of Abraham for the righteous if you want and hell for sinners. When Jesus talked about being with the man in paradise, surely he wasn't talking about the grave. Paradise does not mean grave. Every statement that Jesus made in the scriptures stands and none cancels the other. For someone to try to use one to cancel the other as they are doing portrays their desperate effort to satisfy their no-hell-emotions and I won't be part of it. God bless u.

i tot you were going to explain the scriptures i quoted, did Christ go to heaven the day he died? Is paradise the same thing as heaven? Do u think Jesus is a naija politician who engage in double speak?, if ppl go to heaven/hell at death, do we expect them to come back from heaven/hell to face judgement?. My brother stop reading and start studying.i will explain the Lazarus story shortly. God bless.

@christembassy,

I ve already addressed the scripture you quoted. What am saying is that what Jesus said about going to prepare a place for us still stands but it doesn't also cancel what he said about what happens after death in the case of Lazarus and the thief at the cross. you people are trying to use that statement to cancel this one. What the place you quoted is saying is what will happen finally when Jesus finishes preparing a place for us and it only makes the one he said about after death temporary but you people want to use it to cancel this out rightly and we say, NO. It remains a temporary place for our soul when we die and that is why resurrection must take place for us to put on the glorious body and fulfill the eternal plan that God has for us. See, the bible is a wonderful book full of mysteries of God but the problem i have with you people is that you study the bible from a logical point of view that is why you people are displaying all this emotions. yet i keep saying that our emotions, feelings and teachings doesn't change the truth about anything. Your disbelieve about what happens after death cannot change its reality. Its only a matter of time and we all will see these realities. For those who disbelieve, it will be a shocking and terrible end because they have believed and taught lies(and of course they cant say they didnt know). My dear i study my bible but not from a logic view like you people. The same thing you people are doing is what the atheists are doing and that is why they cannot agree with the mysteries of the scripture. If i want to be logical with the scriptures like you people i will also ask- why will Jesus tell us that he was going to prepare a place for us since he knew that this heaven and earth will eventually be destroyed by fire and a new heaven and new earth created according to 2 peter 3:10- 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]

11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.[b] That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.


If i want to be logical like you people i will also ask- why will God allow Jesus to prepare a place for us in heaven when he knows that he will eventually destroy it and create a new one and where will we be when this total destruction will take place? Just like you are asking us why did Jesus say he is preparing a place where we ll be with him since the souls of people who died in Christ are already with him now.
Does the new heaven and the new earth plan cancel the fact that Jesus is preparing a place for us? No. Rather, by implication it makes the place he is preparing for us now a temporary one. Same thing we are saying that what he said about preparing a place for us now doesn't cancel what he said about after death rather it makes that a temporary thing too.
These are mysteries of the scriptures that we cant fully comprehend with our mortal mind.
Now here is another mystery of the scriptures on the issue of heaven in 2 corinthians 12;2-4 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

Now do you know the first heaven and the second heaven or can you tell about it since there is a third heaven? You can't know it all bros. These are part of the mysteries we cant fully comprehend while here on earth so dont begin to twist any part of the bible that you think is not logically balanced with your emotions. We walk by faith and not by sight. Thanks.
This are my points.

^^^^May God help us not to be guided by our emotions and sentiments in interpreting the scriptures so that we don't miss heaven at last. Amen

I had a dream almost 2yrs ago and in that dream i died,i saw my spirit come out of my body and after that i was being carried away somehow beyond my own control into a very dark place,I was scared n knew i was going to hell,as I moved deep in d darkness i could hear the cries n shouts of people,it was so loud and terrifying that i got scared. then all of a sudden i was transported into this very beautiful place full of light,i have never seen any light like this,its was absolutely inexplicable.

I was in that place of light and i could see my family members crying for me that am gone. I said to myself in that beautiful place where i dwell that i would reveal myself to my mum via a dream to her,that nobody should cry over me because i am in good place,i love where i am.

As i was about showing myself to my mum,i woke from my bed and realized God has just shown what the after life is. All these was a dream but i know God purposely showed me for a reason. Heaven and hell are real.

Some months back I had a vision n I saw someone covered with flames,burning and yet alive n was shouting. This person was going tru excruciating pains.

On another occasion I was sleeping and could hear people cry,shout so loud beneath d ground. I woke up n thought it was a dream but it wasn't cos when I put my ears close to the floor,I could still hear d same shouts n cries of many. up till now if I think of what I heard from d grounds,it frightens me.

elviszzz: I had a dream almost 2yrs ago and in that dream i died,i saw my spirit come out of my body and after that i was being carried away somehow beyond my own control into a very dark place,I was scared n knew i was going to hell,as I moved deep in d darkness i could hear the cries n shouts of people,it was so loud and terrifying that i got scared. then all of a sudden i was transported into this very beautiful place full of light,i have never seen any light like this,its was absolutely inexplicable.

I was in that place of light and i could see my family members crying for me that am gone. I said to myself in that beautiful place where i dwell that i would reveal myself to my mum via a dream to her,that nobody should cry over me because i am in good place,i love where i am.

As i was about showing myself to my mum,i woke from my bed and realized God has just shown what the after life is. All these was a dream but i know God purposely showed me for a reason. Heaven and hell are real.

Yeah, God used that dream to remind you or confirm to you that there is an after life. God speaks to us through dreams, visions and other means so it is not strange or unbiblical as some people here want us to believe. I pity those whom they are deceiving with their false message and misinterpretation and misapplication of the scriptures. I cannot toy with this all important issue that has to do with my eternal destiny. God forbid. Thanks.

christemmbassey: A preacher visited me last week and told me about two books that some one gave to him, according to him, after reading just a few pages he was so afraid that even as he was talking to me , he was so confused and affraid whether he will make heaven. Brethren, the books are about these people who claim that , they died, went tn heaven and/or hell and the messages they brought back from God and what they experience and saw. Are these stories true? What are the biblical supports to such experiences if any? Are ppl going to hell/heaven now as they die? God bless as we discus this new trend.

mister poster, Y cant you mention the names of the books the said pastor read!!
wont that me informative to the readers of this post?
I've read some books about heaven and hell. and diff'rnt testimonies.
One jolted me so seriously i was in shock mode for circa a week.
That's because i wasnt going to church,praying , reading the word,
i never attend mid week services.
And in the book, most saints were outside heaven, loiterring,
in the brown robes, their sin? missing mid week services!!!

omo. it wasnt funny. and still isnt it. The message i got was t hat ,
Heaven isnt as easy as modern pentecostal's make it.
In christianity now, almost anything goes - and condonement of everything sin is increasing.
The book is "heaven is so real" - by choo thomas.

Others are "mary baxter" - hell is real. her "heaven is real book " seemed a bit boring.
But one of the more interesting heaven books are - jesse duplantis - "heaven,close encounters of a God kind"
Todd burpo - a boy who visited heaven as a 5 year old boy or so. i listened to it in mp3.
really cool.
roberts lairdon - i saw heaven. nice.

youtube videos- on hell too. like the one , where michael jackson, the pope , this popular
musician who died (a lady). etc.
what shocked me in the narrative is that after the rapture the HOLY SPIRIT will be taken
away from earth!! - without holy spirit you can't be born again.
busting the myth, of most end time messages, that yadda yadda after the rapture ppl can still be born again etc. most ppl have conditioned their minds to miss the rapture
and make it up during the tribulation years..
I believe the youtube video anyway.
But ive seen,that fear can't really make you change. after a while it wears off and
dulls so you go back to your old way.
sad but true.
But if its any consolation, focus on the heaven bits. there some really nice
books on them.if you cant find a book read the book of revelations..
it really soothing when you get used to it.

in the choo thomas book, non tithers are theives, and will go to hell.
in the youtube video, a pastor was in hell , for not paying his tithe! or is stealing tithe money.
on sad one was the 8 year old boy in hell!! for disobeying his mum.
not big disobedience o!! - ignored the mum, ran out of the house, got hit by a car-
took the speed train to helly.
so sad.. "junior, came and wear your shoe" - junior: "no, lemme alone "..
those kind things fit send pikin to hell!!!
in choo thomas book, he very nice mother, not a christian but so tender and nice
was in hell.
she just ddnt accept Jesus christ.
choo thomas, cousin , a 17 year old was in there too.
so was her father.
in the youtube video, it like a lorry offloads sand into a pit, every so often,
but the grains in the huge pile of sand is a human soul!!
that's how the pile up to make it down there.
It's scary ,cuz sin is part of modern church culture. pastor will stand at pulpit and tell shameless exaggerations .. choir sister screw like dogs. brothers are he-goats.
no diff'rence btw church and world.
but its better to be scared now and change than - go there. any way, people will still make heaven,pple will make the rapture. no be goat Jesus go rapture. so its possible to
make it.

the market for heaven/hell story patronizers is fed by marketing crooks..
some of these books are produced with no other intent but to make money and milk gullible
mugus.
robert lairdons new book on heaven - we saw heaven- to me, wasnt worth it.
for somebody who's read his first book, i saw heaven, the new book was mainly a summary
of the first one plus some pads of other sketchy heaven stories. i was really dissapointed
after i read it.

90 minutes in heaven: -
the author visited heaven after he was unconscious in a car accident.
the summary of the heaven visit, is that he arrived at the gate of heaven,
nver got it, saw his grand father who was smiling at him,
regained consciousness. The rest of the book centers around his hospital and recovery experience.
Frauds.
I mean, how low ppl will go in the name of religion.
The typical buyer will be expecting much more only to be soundedly dissapointed
after the first few pages.

A nigerian man, went to heaven and hell. in hell women who permed their hair were cast into it!! wat.. any scriptures for this.
the book circulated in a church that had all these ultra strict dress code rules.

however, if one is going there its good to read up on wat one is to expect.
At the end of the day,the important things one has to know to avoid heat treatment
is in the bible. and the hell mentality/ heaven mentality is really know way to really
live. fear of hell, or postponing living cuz of heaven hope is foolishness.
There's a purpose one is on earth, and its not to live in fear or postponement.

kambo:
mister poster, Y cant you mention the names of the books the said pastor read!!
wont that me informative to the readers of this post?
I've read some books about heaven and hell. and diff'rnt testimonies.
One jolted me so seriously i was in shock mode for circa a week.
That's because i wasnt going to church,praying , reading the word,
i never attend mid week services.
And in the book, most saints were outside heaven, loiterring,
in the brown robes, their sin? missing mid week services!!!

omo. it wasnt funny. and still isnt it. The message i got was t hat ,
Heaven isnt as easy as modern pentecostal's make it.
In christianity now, almost anything goes - and condonement of everything sin is increasing.
The book is "heaven is so real" - by choo thomas.

Others are "mary baxter" - hell is real. her "heaven is real book " seemed a bit boring.
But one of the more interesting heaven books are - jesse duplantis - "heaven,close encounters of a God kind"
Todd burpo - a boy who visited heaven as a 5 year old boy or so. i listened to it in mp3.
really cool.
roberts lairdon - i saw heaven. nice.

youtube videos- on hell too. like the one , where michael jackson, the pope , this popular
musician who died (a lady). etc.
what shocked me in the narrative is that after the rapture the HOLY SPIRIT will be taken
away from earth!! - without holy spirit you can't be born again.
busting the myth, of most end time messages, that yadda yadda after the rapture ppl can still be born again etc. most ppl have conditioned their minds to miss the rapture
and make it up during the tribulation years..
I believe the youtube video anyway.
But ive seen,that fear can't really make you change. after a while it wears off and
dulls so you go back to your old way.
sad but true.
But if its any consolation, focus on the heaven bits. there some really nice
books on them.if you cant find a book read the book of revelations..
it really soothing when you get used to it.

in the choo thomas book, non tithers are theives, and will go to hell.
in the youtube video, a pastor was in hell , for not paying his tithe! or is stealing tithe money.
on sad one was the 8 year old boy in hell!! for disobeying his mum.
not big disobedience o!! - ignored the mum, ran out of the house, got hit by a car-
took the speed train to helly.
so sad.. "junior, came and wear your shoe" - junior: "no, lemme alone "..
those kind things fit send pikin to hell!!!
in choo thomas book, he very nice mother, not a christian but so tender and nice
was in hell.
she just ddnt accept Jesus christ.
choo thomas, cousin , a 17 year old was in there too.
so was her father.
in the youtube video, it like a lorry offloads sand into a pit, every so often,
but the grains in the huge pile of sand is a human soul!!
that's how the pile up to make it down there.
It's scary ,cuz sin is part of modern church culture. pastor will stand at pulpit and tell shameless exaggerations .. choir sister screw like dogs. brothers are he-goats.
no diff'rence btw church and world.
but its better to be scared now and change than - go there. any way, people will still make heaven,pple will make the rapture. no be goat Jesus go rapture. so its possible to
make it.

wetin person no go read for Nl! You miss midweek service , you go to hell?

you will explain your own slant not the bible.
The bible says, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The truth is so fine and sure that , it takes the grace of God to reveal it to man,
all truths come from God in case you dont know.
And human's have believed lies for so long- so long - our lives have been wrecked.
Now upholding your assumptions to the scriptures it fails.

The bible says the HOLY SPIRIT will guide you into ALL truth..

keep your mind open to God's word. dont fight the truth wen it is revealed to you.

The human body is kept alive by the human spirit. James 2vs28.
When the human spirit leaves the human body - we have what we know of as physical death.
But as long as the spirit is in the body, the body remains alive.

How then can the spirit be in the body and the body is dead. a contradiction..
in fact wen ppl die you say they breath their last.
That breathing of their last breath, for those who die uneventfully, release the spirit
from the body, either thru the nostrils , or mouth. typical out routes.
With the spirit out the body,the body becomes still,lifeless,because the human body has
no life of its own. its the spirit that moves the body,speaks thru the vocal cords,
sees thru the eyes,
thinks thru the brain.
(that's why the acheivements of man, surpasses wat the physical entity called the brain
can generate, it is the spirit of man that really does the thinking ... too deep for some)
but the sooner you understand you are a spirit , the easier it is to understand the bible
. cuz its a book of spirits by a spirit(God) for other spirits !.

christemmbassey: if ppl go to heaven/hell at death, do we expect them to come back from heaven/hell to face judgement?.

Rev 20v13:
-------------
"and the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hell, gave u the dead which
were in them: and they were judged every man according to his works.

This passage must have been written for this day on nairaland

If the departed spirits , dont go anywhere, then this must have been the principle right befor time. because God isnt a changelin.
meaning,the first man adam,must still be in the grave with his body. huh.
what happens when the body disintegrates into soil?! the spirit remains where!!

the body is the container for the spirit- ? when the body is gone what does the spirit
stay contained in?
THINK.

3.) Jude vs 9.
Satan disputed for Moses Body. ( spirit implied)
Why wud satan want to do that,if He didnt want to drag him off to hell - a place of torment. Wud satan dispute just to watch over it?
Y did the Angel come for moses if not to take him off some where?

kambo: the market for heaven/hell story patronizers is fed by marketing crooks..
some of these books are produced with no other intent but to make money and milk gullible
mugus.
robert lairdons new book on heaven - we saw heaven- to me, wasnt worth it.
for somebody who's read his first book, i saw heaven, the new book was mainly a summary
of the first one plus some pads of other sketchy heaven stories. i was really dissapointed
after i read it.

90 minutes in heaven: -
the author visited heaven after he was unconscious in a car accident.
the summary of the heaven visit, is that he arrived at the gate of heaven,
nver got it, saw his grand father who was smiling at him,
regained consciousness. The rest of the book centers around his hospital and recovery experience.
Frauds.
I mean, how low ppl will go in the name of religion.
The typical buyer will be expecting much more only to be soundedly dissapointed
after the first few pages.

A nigerian man, went to heaven and hell. in hell women who permed their hair were cast into it!! wat.. any scriptures for this.
the book circulated in a church that had all these ultra strict dress code rules.

however, if one is going there its good to read up on wat one is to expect.
At the end of the day,the important things one has to know to avoid heat treatment
is in the bible. and the hell mentality/ heaven mentality is really know way to really
live. fear of hell, or postponing living cuz of heaven hope is foolishness.
There's a purpose one is on earth, and its not to live in fear or postponement.

@Kambo; i wil address the issue of Lazarus n d rich man latter, ok, yes i agree with you on the issue of heaven/hell maketing oil well, and my opinion is, God is not involved in this business, the traders get into the head of the pharisee christian, produce a product that they have seen inside their head and the phariric christians ewpect every one to buy the 'shit' the TRUTH remains, there is heaven and there is hell, but NOBODY goes to heaven/hell at death until after judgement. @Alex, you talk about being emotional bla bla, pls read ur posts n mine, be honest, and tell who is emotional, thats if u know what it is. Now i want you to note this, 1. I believe, the is heaven and there is hell. 2. I believe, NO 'christian' will go to hell, jn3:16-21, because it is not me, you or anybody will stand at the gate neither will any Nigerian judge or any humand judge will sit at the judgement seat but Jesus,NB, i said 'christian' not 'church goer' . 3. What you are doing now is not needed in christianity, me, me and me, for others, they will see, they will be suprised, they will cry, they will suffer, etc, etc. Pls study 2tim2:24-26, it will. Bless you. It seems you are confused about the new heaven, the new earth and Jesus going to 'PREPARE' a place, pls stop reading but study ur bible. God bless you plenty.

christemmbassey: @Kambo; i wil address the issue of Lazarus n d rich man latter, ok, yes i agree with you on the issue of heaven/hell maketing oil well, and my opinion is, God is not involved in this business, the traders get into the head of the pharisee christian, produce a product that they have seen inside their head and the phariric christians ewpect every one to buy the 'shit' the TRUTH remains, there is heaven and there is hell, but NOBODY goes to heaven/hell at death until after judgement. @Alex, you talk about being emotional bla bla, pls read ur posts n mine, be honest, and tell who is emotional, thats if u know what it is. Now i want you to note this, 1. I believe, the is heaven and there is hell. 2. I believe, NO 'christian' will go to hell, jn3:16-21, because it is not me, you or anybody will stand at the gate neither will any Nigerian judge or any humand judge will sit at the judgement seat but Jesus,NB, i said 'christian' not 'church goer' . 3. What you are doing now is not needed in christianity, me, me and me, for others, they will see, they will be suprised, they will cry, they will suffer, etc, etc. Pls study 2tim2:24-26, it will. Bless you. It seems you are confused about the new heaven, the new earth and Jesus going to 'PREPARE' a place, pls stop reading but study ur bible. God bless you plenty.

Ok, your point number one, I mean those of you who are preaching no hell or no eternal punishment or condemning the hell fire testimonies or hell fire preaching. You people say it creates fear in people, it makes God appear wicked before the listeners, it scares people away from God and turns them to atheism and that how can God punish people like that forever and all that. These are the points i ve heard from those of you who are against the message of hell. So the bible is now being twisted to make it sound sweet to people. Is that what it should be? NO. Thats why i keep saying you people, i dont mean you alone. And i said it here in one of such threads that what an atheists wants to hear is that there is no punishment at all so that those of you that are watering down the weight of God's punishment by twisting the bible to impress them you aint doing nothing. When you say nobody goes to hell till after judgement you are just saying your own opinion and thats for you. It doesnt also change the reality as i ve always said and you cant use your opinion to cancel what people said they have experienced. Its very easy for anybody to gather up scriptures to support any selfish stand so i care less about your stand anyway.
Your point number two- No christian will go to hell and thats true. Any christian with sin in his or her heart is no more a christian. Any christian whose name is no more in the book of life is no more a christian. God cannot change his standard because of anybody. If your definition of Christianity is anything short of "Follow peace with all men and HOLINESS without which no man shall see God" then you are missing it. Thats why i said that a christian should always purify himself with the blood of Jesus in his prayers. if you fail to do so and get to heavens gate with a spot of sin in you, you cant enter there. It is in the bible and not my word. I dont understand what you mean by i wont be at heavens gate. Did i say so. Yes Jesus will be there and if you think he will smile at your sin and tell you to enter then you are on the path of deceit and you need to change quickly.
Your point number three- I talk about me when i want to state my personal stand and sometimes i also say we when i want to say a stand i ve seen others here take so i dont understand what you mean by me, me, me.

It is you that sound confused about the illustration i gave with the new heaven and new earth, Jesus going to prepare a place for us and the after life event. I am not teaching you about new heaven and new earth rather i used it to draw up some illustrations for you, You may need to read it up again and understand it very well sir.
I have told you that i study the word and i cannot study it like you. You people study the bible like a logic book and i cant do mine that way. Thanks.