Jesus said that for anyone to get salvation u have to keep the laws and commandment. Matthew 5:17-20
We have to follow the master that's salvation

Hallo,

Why the comparison between Jesus and Paul?

outc@st:
Hallo,

Why the comparison between Jesus and Paul?

Because , a few days ago,one mo.r.on on this forum, asserted, directly and indirectly, that christians should ignore the ministry of Jesus and focus on the teachings of Paul.

plaetton:

Because , a few days ago,one mo.r.on on this forum, asserted, directly and indirectly, that christians should ignore the ministry of Jesus and focus on the teachings of Paul.

That's definitely a new one...

outc@st:



That's definitely a new one...

You bet.

This is what the SHdemidemi guy wrote.


As a christian, the scripture says we should follow Paul (not Peter,not James, Not John, not Jesus earthly ministry).


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plaetton:

You bet.

This is what the SHdemidemi guy wrote.


As a christian, the scripture says we should follow Paul (not Peter,not James, Not John, not Jesus earthly ministry).


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Quite funny!


Maybe a new sect should be formed Paulstians as against Christians!

Following Paul and his epistles is as though following Christ because the Lord our fortress is the Jesus Christ that Paul revealed and this same Jesus gave the revelation to Paul.

neither.

they were both mortals like we are.

FortresOfChrist: Following Paul and his epistles is as though following Christ because the Lord our fortress is the Jesus Christ that Paul revealed and this same Jesus gave the revelation to Paul.

Very true! But Christ is the standard. Paul only became relevant because he did not deviate from the teachings of Christ...if he had deviated, Paul wouldn't have become what he is to Christendom today.

FortresOfChrist: Following Paul and his epistles is as though following Christ because the Lord our fortress is the Jesus Christ that Paul revealed and this same Jesus gave the revelation to Paul.

With all due respect.
This is f#$@! silly.

Paul revealed Jesus? WTF?
No one knew Jesus before Paul?
Did Jesus not live a full 33yrs on earth, going around teaching and healing?

You are now saying that Pual's brief encounter with Jesus, whether true or a hallucination, now supercedes the very teaching that Jesus himself walked around and taught to his disciples and the masses?

Paul's teachings are the lazy man's approach to christianity- Namely: Worship Jesus and ignore his teachings of spiritual redemption through self-sacrifice,kindness and personal responsibility.

plaetton:

Because , a few days ago,one mo.r.on on this forum, asserted, directly and indirectly, that christians should ignore the ministry of Jesus and focus on the teachings of Paul.

Is that the reason...or u just want have some topic to talk about. Don't you it does not make sense arguing that here.

plaetton:

With all due respect.
This is f#$@! silly.

Paul revealed Jesus? WTF?
No one knew Jesus before Paul?
Did Jesus not live a full 33yrs on earth, going around teaching and healing?

You are now saying that Pual's brief encounter with Jesus, whether true or a hallucination, now supercedes the very teaching that Jesus himself walked around and taught to his disciples and the masses?

Paul's teachings are the lazy man's approach to christianity- Namely: Worship Jesus and ignore his teachings of spiritual redemption through self-sacrifice,kindness and personal responsibility.

Do you know what revelation is? People knew Jesus when he was on earth but they have no revelation of who he was and were still expecting a big and powerful messiah to come. Christianity is not blessed because Christ was born but because of his 'death & resurrection'. The revealed, crucified and resurrected Lord our fortress is what Paul preached, both the teachings of the Lord our fortress and his works on the cross.

FortresOfChrist:

Do you know what revelation is? People knew Jesus when he was on earth but they have no revelation of who he was and were still expecting a big and powerful messiah to come. Christianity is not blessed because Christ was born but because of his 'death & resurrection'. The revealed, crucified and resurrected Lord our fortress is what Paul preached, both the teachings of the Lord our fortress and his works on the cross.

In other words, his death and resurrection is more important than his teachings.?
And also, are saying that the disciples of Jesus, somehow, did not understand him and who he might have been, and that it took the special grace of Paul to reveal Jesus for who he truly was?
Are you aware that Paul never met Jesus?

plaetton:
In other words, his death and resurrection is more important than his teachings.?

The death of our LORD fortress is what engrafted the non-Jews into the new covenant and both Jews and Gentiles are one new man in the LORD our fortress. By the resurrection, we have the life of LORD our fortress and it is then we can live his teachings.

plaetton:
And also, are saying that the disciples of Jesus, somehow, did not understand him and who he might have been, and that it took the special grace of Paul to reveal Jesus for who he truly was?

The other apostles knew the LORD our fortress but they don't have the revelation of him and his mission to the world. They only understood him and his mission to the Jews only. They also knew and regard him according to the flesh but not according to the Spirit. The LORD our fortress is that Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17) but Paul's LORD our fortress revelation given to Paul was not according to the flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:16-17
Amplified Bible (AMP)

16 Consequently, from now on we estimate and regard no one from a [purely] human point of view [in terms of natural standards of value]. [No] even though we once did estimate Christ from a human viewpoint and as a man, yet now [we have such knowledge of Him that] we know Him no longer [in terms of the flesh].

plaetton:
Are you aware that Paul never met Jesus?

1 Corinthians 9:1
Amplified Bible (AMP)

9 Am I not an apostle (a special messenger)? Am I not free (unrestrained and exempt from any obligation)? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you [yourselves] not [the product and proof of] my workmanship in the Lord?

You CANNOT know Jesus without following the teachings of Paul. Jesus came speaking in parables, He deliberately encoded his doctrines in parables so that they can be revealed after his departure(death & resurrection), and this revelation is what Paul does. So anybody who still uses the pre-death Jesus as a standard, without the revelations of Paul, is simply following shadows and lies. He is still bound by the laws of Moses that Jesus came purposely to fulfill and abolish through his death and resurrection.

So Paul gives you this secret to interpret/reveal Jesus, Not the old Jesus but a new one. Therefore the literal Jesus(of the Law) who was crucified is not the true standard, but he outlined his truths in parables and Paul gives you the mindset to understand these parables.

okeyxyz: You CANNOT know Jesus without following the teachings of Paul. Jesus came speaking in parables, He deliberately encoded his doctrines in parables so that they can be revealed after his departure(death & resurrection), and this revelation is what Paul does. So anybody who still uses the pre-death Jesus as a standard, without the revelations of Paul, is simply following shadows and lies. He is still bound by the laws of Moses that Jesus came purposely to fulfill and abolish through his death and resurrection.

So Paul gives you this secret to interpret/reveal Jesus, Not the old Jesus but a new one. Therefore the literal Jesus(of the Law) who was crucified is not the true standard, but he outlined his truths in parables and Paul gives you the mindset to understand these parables.

In other words, Jesus came to the world, spoke a lot of gibberish and left, then came Paul, through hallucinations, to reveal the real mission of Jesus?
What a waist of everyone's time, wouldn't you say?

plaetton:

In other words, Jesus came to the world, spoke a lot of gibberish parables and left, then came Paul, through hallucinations inspirations, to reveal the real mission of Jesus?

Precisely!!! GBAM!!!

What a waist of everyone's time, wouldn't you say?

Apparently!! ...to the carnal(literal) mind

okeyxyz:

Precisely!!! GBAM!!!



Apparently!! ...to the carnal(literal) mind

hhhmmm!

Deut. 17:17-19
17 And the Lord said to me, They have well said all that they have spoken. 18  I will raise up for them a prophet (Prophet) from among their brethren like you, and will put My words in his mouth; and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19  And whoever will not hearken to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.


Acts 7:37
Moses himself told the people of Israel, 'God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from among your own people.


John 12:48-50
48 He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatever I speak therefore, even as the Father said to me, so I speak.

Jesus is Master. Paul was a messenger sent by Jesus especially to the gentiles. I think He only told them to follow him as He follows Christ because that would have been the best what he could describe it to them since they did not have any prior law like the Jews. Paul expounded further on the Holy Spirit. I do not see him contradicting Jesus but as Peter said many ignorant and unstable people take and twist those epistles as they twist other scriptures....2 Peter 3:15-18

However, note the clause....
Follow me...AS I follow Christ...

Remember Bereans searched the scriptures to confirm if what Paul said was true as the scriptures were there....and these scriptures would not have been Paul's writings.... Ask yourself, Which scriptures did they search?

Therefore, whoever claims to have accepted Jesus, has faith and belief in Jesus and claims he does not accept the words of Jesus never did believe in Jesus afterall...

Alwaystrue:
Jesus is Master. Paul was a messenger sent by Jesus especially to the gentiles. I think He only told them to follow him as He follows Christ because that would have been the best what he could describe it to them since they did not have any prior law like the Jews. Paul expounded further on the Holy Spirit. I do not see him contradicting Jesus but as Peter said many ignorant and unstable people take and twist those epistles as they twist other scriptures....2 Peter 3:15-18

However, note the clause....
Follow me...AS I follow Christ...

The LORD our fortress bless you. Paul was never called master but messenger. He was called a servant of a master, the LORD our fortress and an apostle. He revealed and preached the master's gospel revealed to him.

Who was the founder of christianity? Was it Jesus or Paul?
Can you tell me that the teaching of Paul was not against the teaching of Jesus(as)

However, if u examine the bible carefully, u would observe that Paul and the disciples were not preaching the same doctrine and did not believe in the same Jesus

Paul was the founder of christianity. All the main doctrines and tenets of christianity including the divinity of Jesus, the atonement and the rapture all originate from Paul's writings. The gospels were all written after Paul's death so any of Jesus's statements that seem to align with Paul's are just as likely to have been made so because the people who wrote the gospels were influenced by Paul.

Early christians were originally divided into many opposing groups, all believing in different things. But by the end of the first century, one thing all of them had in common was that they all revered Paul and his letters.

It is instructive to note that Paul never met Jesus, or heard his teachings or interacted with him in any way, aside from the claimed appearance on the road to Damascus, which sounds suspiciously like a cooked up story. In fact, he was a member of the pharisees, a sect that vigorously opposed preachers and holy men like Jesus and John the baptist. Yet, Paul managed to hijack the leadership of the early christian movement from those who actually knew Jesus when he was alive.

The new testament is mostly composed of Paul's writings and those of his imitators. The synoptic gospels (Luke especially) and acts of the apostles were written by his devotees. Only the gospel of John, a few of the minor letters and the book of revelations seem to be free of his influence.

Most definitely, Paul is the founder of Christianity and its main prophet. Jesus was basically just a conveniently obscure (and dead) mascot Paul used to give his teachings more credibiliy

Evil Brain: Paul was the founder of christianity. All the main doctrines and tenets of christianity including the divinity of Jesus, the atonement and the rapture all originate from Paul's writings. The gospels were all written after Paul's death so any of Jesus's statements that seem to align with Paul's are just as likely to have been made so because the people who wrote the gospels were influenced by Paul.

Early christians were originally divided into many opposing groups, all believing in different things. But by the end of the first century, one thing all of them had in common was that they all revered Paul and his letters.

It is instructive to note that Paul never met Jesus, or heard his teachings or interacted with him in any way, aside from the claimed appearance on the road to Damascus, which sounds suspiciously like a cooked up story. In fact, he was a member of the pharisees, a sect that vigorously opposed preachers and holy men like Jesus and John the baptist. Yet, Paul managed to hijack the leadership of the early christian movement from those who actually knew Jesus when he was alive.

The new testament is mostly composed of Paul's writings and those of his imitators. The synoptic gospels (Luke especially) and acts of the apostles were written by his devotees. Only the gospel of John, a few of the minor letters and the book of revelations seem to be free of his influence.

Most definitely, Paul is the founder of Christianity and its main prophet. Jesus was basically just a conveniently obscure (and dead) mascot Paul used to give his teachings more credibiliy

Well said.
It is also worthy of note that Paul also contradicts the teachings of Jesus in many instances.

Historical Quotes Concerning anti-christ and his doctrines from Historians, Philosophers and Theologians:


“If Christianity needed an Anti-Christ, they need look no further than Paul”

-- The English philosopher Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832)

 “We have already noted that every teaching of Jesus was already in the literature of the day….. Paul, the founder of Christianity, the writer of half the NT, almost never quotes Jesus in his letters and writings." (Professor Smith in his “The World Religions”, p 330)

“Paul created a theology of which none but the vaguest warrants can be found in the words of Christ…..Fundamentalism is the triumph of Paul over Christ.”
--Will Durant (Philosopher)


"Paul's words are not the Words of God. They are the words of Paul- a vast difference."
--Bishop John S. Spong, Episcopal Bishop of Newark. (Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, p. 104, Harper San Francisco, 1991)


"Paul insists that there is only one 'gospel of Christ' (Galatians 1:7), so why did later Christians accept as 'Scripture' four written gospels?"
--Graham N. Stanton, “The Gospels and Jesus”, The Oxford Bible Series (1989), p.125


"Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."

(Thomas Jefferson, The Great Thoughts by George Sildes, Ballantine Books, New York, 1985, p.208)
 

"Where possible he (Paul) avoids quoting the teaching of Jesus, in fact even mentioning it. If we had to rely on Paul, we should not know that Jesus taught in parables, had delivered the sermon on the mount, and had taught His disciples the 'Our Father.' Even where they are specially relevant, Paul passes over the words of the Lord."

(Albert Schweitzer, The Mysticism of Paul the Apostle, p. 171)

plaetton:

Well said.
It is also worthy of note that Paul also contradicts the teachings of Jesus in many instances.

I don't think so Paul certainly upheld the Law as the very definition of righteousness and holiness. And he taught that breaking these commandments were Unrighteousness, Lawlessness, wickedness, and most importantly, SIN. Therefore we can conclude that whenever Paul speaks of Sin...he most certainly is talking about disobeying the commandments in the Law.