There will always be a need to write and rewrite Yoruba history.
The best that can happen as a result is systematic awareness of our
long covetted heritage as well as subtle promotion of tourism in this respect.
So when people talk history, they were at vanguard of cultural promotions.
Having follow some topics on this site before now, i will love to make little
contributions to augment the effort of like minds in this topic of Yoruba origin,
enjoy.

#Sultan Bello and sir Hugh Clapperton made the first record of Yoruba origin.
#Sultan Bello concluded that Yoruba were Banu Khan tribe of Nimrod;
#This conclusion made it to the history of the Yorubas by revd. Samuel Johnson.
#samuel Johnson spell the Yoruba version of Nimrod, given as Lamurudu.
#That is easy to do because the Oyo Yoruba had Muslim population by then
#They (muslim Yorubas) were familiar with namrud or... lamurudu, which bring it home.

the creation of "Asara" and "Buremo" as found in the book "history of the Yoruba" is to
substantiate the claims earlier made by the learned Islamic scholar and his British
recorder, Hugh Clapperton. It was unfortunate that the first history of the Yoruba came from
outside source.

But there are plus to it.

the Yoruba would not have created a story from outside their domain
the Yoruba would not easily agree to one conventional hero, oduduwa.
to some extent, we have the scholars to thank.

The Yoruba origin proper

the truth about the origin of the Yoruba is
a fact waiting to be shared.
the Yoruba did emigrated from another land.
the Yoruba history is carefully concealed in ifa
ifa embraces colophons that made it adaptable to research
ifa was the works of ancient Yoruba indigenous scholars.
the Yoruba are at loss to their history.

http://yorubaclassics..com/

that gives us the best advantage because
Yoruba history is the story of the future.

The origin of the yoruba seems shrouded in mystery, but according to Bishop Ajayi Crowder, the Yoruba have Hebrew origin. well the word of the elder would either come to pass in the dawn or dusk. where did the Yoruba pick the tradition of twins stories from? the Yoruba would say "Taiye lolu ejire ara isokun" this means "the first child is the eminent of the friendly two, brethren of isokun." then they turn around and say, "Akenyinde gbegbon, mbabi mbayo, o po jojo wolu." this simply means "the later pair supplanted the birthright, i will be glad to have one that comes to the city with multitudes" if you were samuel ajayi crowder, you will conclude likewise.

did the yoruba have a claim to external origin? of course they do. some of the fact file to be found in ifa comes with captions that suggest yoruba origin, example of this is odu ose and owonrin. odu ose is ifas treatise on origin, owonrin speaks about owon (plural pronoun the) orin (migrants). funny enough, yoruba history is cryptic for a purpose, it is not meant to feed some peoples megalomaniac tendencies. the historian of the Yoruba would have the deepest mastery of Yoruba language, it is the language that has concealed the secrets, and it will produce the secret in time to come.

http://yorubaclassics..com/

there will always be a need to write and rewrite Yoruba history

yoruba history cant be rewritten, it can however, be reexamined.

the only problem is there arent full records and the subject is too vast.

piecing everything together is extremely tasking.

prexios: There will always be a need to write and rewrite Yoruba history.

"revisit", "review", "re examine", ......

The best that can happen as a result is systematic awareness of our
long covetted heritage as well as subtle promotion of tourism in this respect.

Culture is what is selling now. The explosion of informal photography through internet feeds is revealing aspects of humanity which before now had been dismissed as inconsequential, untamed, unsophisticated and by all means unworthy of acknoedgement and acceptance. Far more people are itching to experience the physicality of the image brought to them on internet. So awareness will feed tourism and acceptance. I recently opened a post suggesting that a mammoth land development as Eko Atlantic City ought to incorporate a cultural landmark image. Building structures do not ordinarily make good landmarks; it is the character or persona imbued in them which gives it an attitude that appeals to the public.

Nigerians do not get a thrill out of visiting or eating in an American or European restaurant, much as they are glorified and rated around the globe. The reason is because our own cuisines are far more tasty, delightful and filling.

Similarly, Europeans and Americans will not be thrilled by our fanciful and cosmopolitan buildings. Simply because they live and work in similar skyscrapers and walk between their concrete facade everyday. What will thrill them in Eko Atlantic is the cultural symbols......something that tells them who we are before they meet us. After they meet us, more of something to remind them who we are so they will want to return for a repeat contact.

So when people talk history, they were at vanguard of cultural promotions. Having follow some topics on this site before now, i will love to make little contributions to augment the effort of like minds in this topic of Yoruba origin, enjoy.

All are welcome!

#Sultan Bello and sir Hugh Clapperton made the first record of Yoruba origin.

Yoruba palace bards were the first recorders of Yoruba origin. Oral tradition is a record. It creates copies of the original which is then transmitted through recitals down the ancestral and generation line.

Literature, writing, documentation, are also records. By writing down we expand circulation of the message or history, this is the only advantage between the two methods of transmission.

A written record made thousands of years after multi-generations of bards and griots have heralded the origins and beginnings of Yoruba race cannot authenticate as the first record on the subject.

Ifa was not written down for thousands of years; using the same logic should we say Yorubas were taught Ifa by the first set of people to put it in writing?

Ile-Ife was documented in print by foreigners, should we say Yorubas did not know about Ile-Ife until they read about it in a book?

This idea that Bello and Clapperton were the first recorders must be squashed and thrashed in the dustbin. White explorers pushed into Africa from two directions: 1. From the sea; 2. From the desert.

Yoruba political and spiritual capitals were both hinterland and European contact with them occured very late relative to other Empires of the Sudan that explorers like Clapperton visited. Few things are noteworthy in the exchange between Bello and Clapperton :

What led Bello to neglect telling Clapperton about the Fulani or Hausa ancestry; why did he choose Yoruba ancestry to talk about?

1. Bello was at war with Shehu of Borno when Clapperton visited
2. Timbuktu had given jurisprudence verdict and circulated to all the Muslim rulers of the Sudan that only muslims can enslave muslims. Muslims are permitted to enslave non-muslims but it is unlawful under Sharia that kaffirs should enslave muslims or that muslims should live under kaffir rule.
3. Yorubas were enslaving and selling Fulanis.

In that narrative to Clapperton, Bello was drawing a line of reason to solicit Clapperton's support. While there is no doubt about the ancestral link and its dotted lines, on this occassion however Bello needed Clapperton to see a political connection between the Yoruba and Kanuri and a need to crush them. Even though he ended giving history, his motive was to find a lasting solution, particularly to trading and enslavement of Fulani.

#Sultan Bello concluded that Yoruba were Banu Khan tribe of Nimrod;
#This conclusion made it to the history of the Yorubas by revd. Samuel Johnson.

The story of Ya'rub is common in the story of origins of the Arabs. His descent line is the only one unaccounted for in the Arab clans. There is no definite knowledge of what happened to him or where he went. Arab literature contained accounts of an Arab clan head who emigrated out of Arabia, particularly Mecca, after his idols were destroyed. The Kaabah which muslims today circum-ambulate used to be a shrine with idols in it. They do not know where this clan head went or what happened to him either but it is believed he crossed into the Sudan with his people and followers.

Scholars in Mali had manuscripts that detail the history of black Sudan. The long ancestry of Yorubas is in this archive and as the scholars spread their religion they also taught history. This is how Bello knew that history. It was not his conclusion, he contributed nothing to it.

Samuel Johnson had an independent source for his account. It is evident in his works that Johnson shared deeper and more intimate ancestral linkages of the Yorubas tothe Kanaan than Bello gave in his writings to Clapperton. So where di Mr Johnson get this info?

#samuel Johnson spell the Yoruba version of Nimrod, given as Lamurudu.
#That is easy to do because the Oyo Yoruba had Muslim population by then
#They (muslim Yorubas) were familiar with namrud or... lamurudu, which bring it home.

Johnson was literate, educated and a scholar, in writing he would retain the name "Nimrod" in its original if indeed his knowledge of Yoruba ancestry was handed to him solely from Bello and Clapperton, neither one of whom knew what Lamurudu was or meant. The inclusion of Lamurudu can only mean that others in native Yorubaland knew who Lamurudu was.

Nimrod is not mentioned by name in the Quran. I am a muslim and I am very intimate with the Quran, cover to cover. He occurrs in footnotes and sermons and interpretation. Since Yorubas at this time were writing in Ajami, and not in latin alphabets, Lamurudu would not have been present in their texts.

the creation of "Asara" and "Buremo" as found in the book "history of the Yoruba" is to
substantiate the claims earlier made by the learned Islamic scholar and his British
recorder, Hugh Clapperton. It was unfortunate that the first history of the Yoruba came from
outside source.

What would you say then of the native Yoruba name Dauda and Moremi?
Were these names brought to us through Ajayi Crowther and Christian missionaries? The two names are David and Maryam. How about Apata in Yoruba and Peter in Bible, can we say Yorubas did not know what Apata was until we read about Peter in Bible? How about orisha Adimu? Did we only find out the first man was named Adam through our contact with foreigners? The high priest of Ife is named Araba, just as high priest of Jerusalem is named Rabbi......is this the influence of foreigners teaching us who we are?

But there are plus to it.

the Yoruba would not have created a story from outside their domain
the Yoruba would not easily agree to one conventional hero, oduduwa.
to some extent, we have the scholars to thank.

Really Who are the scholars without whose written records Yoruba would have be a lost race without a root? Name them.

The Yoruba origin proper

the truth about the origin of the Yoruba is
a fact waiting to be shared.
the Yoruba did emigrated from another land.
the Yoruba history is carefully concealed in ifa
ifa embraces colophons that made it adaptable to research
ifa was the works of ancient Yoruba indigenous scholars.
the Yoruba are at loss to their history.


that gives us the best advantage because
Yoruba history is the story of the future.

The origin of the yoruba seems shrouded in mystery, but according to Bishop Ajayi Crowder, the Yoruba have Hebrew origin. well the word of the elder would either come to pass in the dawn or dusk. where did the Yoruba pick the tradition of twins stories from? the Yoruba would say "Taiye lolu ejire ara isokun" this means "the first child is the eminent of the friendly two, brethren of isokun." then they turn around and say, "Akenyinde gbegbon, mbabi mbayo, o po jojo wolu." this simply means "the later pair supplanted the birthright, i will be glad to have one that comes to the city with multitudes" if you were samuel ajayi crowder, you will conclude likewise.

did the yoruba have a claim to external origin? of course they do. some of the fact file to be found in ifa comes with captions that suggest yoruba origin, example of this is odu ose and owonrin. odu ose is ifas treatise on origin, owonrin speaks about owon (plural pronoun the) orin (migrants). funny enough, yoruba history is cryptic for a purpose, it is not meant to feed some peoples megalomaniac tendencies. the historian of the Yoruba would have the deepest mastery of Yoruba language, it is the language that has concealed the secrets, and it will produce the secret in time to come.

The need to retain integrity and preserve Yoruba history from falsehood and bias is why the record of root origin is kept safe in the lineage of bards and griots. Oral history is not as vulnerable to revisions as written history is.

The custodians of oral history and Yoruba roots and civilization are the authentic repository of the knowledge.

op, are you yoruba?

i noticed you opened this user id specifically for this topic.

Tpia,

Its hard to tell but i think he is.

hmm

anyway, i see nothing wrong with any of the accounts mentioned [sultan, clapperton, etc].

This idea that Bello and Clapperton were the first recorders must be squashed and thrashed in the dustbin. White explorers pushed into Africa from two directions: 1. From the sea; 2. From the desert.

Yoruba political and spiritual capitals were both hinterland and European contact with them occured very late relative to other Empires of the Sudan that explorers like Clapperton visited. Few things are noteworthy in the exchange between Bello and Clapperton :

hugh and clapperton were some of the explorers who opened up the african interior to modern european scrutiny.

the foundations of modern europe were being laid back then, and these accounts were putting tribes on the global map.

true, it also had a negative impact on africans, but how do you think people [africans] would have fared if they werent able to interact at a global level?

tpia@:


hugh and clapperton were some of the explorers who opened up the african interior to modern european scrutiny.

the foundations of modern europe were being laid back then, and these accounts were putting tribes on the global map.

true, it also had a negative impact on africans, but how do you think people [africans] would have fared if they werent able to interact at a global level?

The adversity imposed on Europe was too great for its scanty and poor grade resources to support, the drive for preservation and survival is what forced them out enmasse in search of a living.

Clapperton and Landers did not embark on a charity journey to go save Africans. All the explorers had a template method of documenting what they saw and the condition it was in, its location and who owned it. If they encounter humans they documented his social heierarchy and they wanted to see the person on top of that society. This method of assessment, evaluation, accreditation and quantifying was developed and practiced in their own society and was done for the purpose of tax and revenue for the crown. Their mission in Africa was to tax and create revenue stream for their society to survive.

Europe needed Africa more than Africa needed Europe.

^ that is true, but the point is, things were about to get moving, especially with columbus discovery of the americas.

new horizons, frontiers and all that.

so, whether africa called europe or europe called africa, it was inevitable somewhat.

That's why i love the Yoruba, we are equal to the task in respect to our history at all time. i have learn more than i have put up in this pieces, i have only wrote the thread off-hands, without predetermined pressure to this end. as a result, my writing was within 20 minutes thereabout and you may have to pardon my unedited submission. but the general idea put forward can be clearly understood enough.

i know that Yoruba dichotomy exist, that's what i call "megalomania" - that language may be outlandish, but the purpose i want it serve is this, let others who are Yoruba be free to contribute to Yoruba history as long as we have something to learn or our idea to refresh our expertise to exhibit, don't be afraid, we will find one another out for real.

now, i am a believer in Yoruba oral tradition, every written source of the 19th century are 70% goof. no one speak in defense of oral tradition, but in defense of the position that their various communities occupy, in the commonwealth of Yoruba.others who were not that prominent are irrelevant or in the other dichotomy, "Yoruba approper" sort of. for the records, i think we should forgive the "yoruba approper," because there we shall find the old differentiations at the end.



tpia has said

"Yoruba palace bards were the first recorders of Yoruba origin. Oral tradition is a record. It creates copies of the original which is then transmitted through recitals down the ancestral and generation line."

that is so beautiful, that is the 50% fact. the complete idea is, was it at the palace that Yoruba civilization fan out? no, the founding fathers were actually seafarers as well as explorers. these was the preoccupation of the Yoruba ancestors, they were explorers. therefore, we can not limit their movement to the palace so they can meet our ideals and the projections of "their majesties."

the Yoruba ancestors wandered purposefully throughout Yoruba neighbourhood and established stations with people to develop such places to communities. they were not, maybe not, given to our ideals of "fineness palace people and courtiers" they were empire builders. you limit them through the limit you know every time you assume some people were first in Yoruba and some people came from somewhere to colonize and set up kingdom over them. that's lazy approach to explaining the unknown. the Yoruba ancestors were not political thirsty outcasts looking for who to conquer. that does not mean they were anarchist that did not know about palace and political finesse, but they were purpose driven people who can build a place and create complex leadership systems for themselves and posterity. we are the benefactors putting the finesse in place.

now guess what? the Yoruba ancestors have their recorders, who were putting every of their parchment of history in place as they wander through the dark forest and sea. (you wont like them to have come to the sea, YOU WONT LIKE ODUDUWA TO BE TALKED ABOUT BY SAY, YORUBA RIVERINE PEOPLE, everyone prefers to hear ife - oyo version only, these were Yoruba proper? this is where Yoruba or the world began.)lets try this, assume that odu is short for oduduwa, and ifa was the one that decide if a place is habitable or not, what will you make of this? "odu-ifa" a record system. find your wisdom on yoruba origin here. not in amalgalms of subjective traditions, but filterable facts, if this oppose your religion, go and sit down.

for these much that we have found closeness in the Yoruba words, piece by piece, believed to have come from Larubawa, Hebrew and so on, what have we done with it? it is easy to scrutinize lovers of what you all love, but will you start a thread on what you love? DUDU NEGRO? what stops you from finding out more about a beloved homeland and starting a thread in that direction? is it the true love for what you know or lack of material for what you love that is keeping you back?

tpia@:



yoruba history cant be rewritten, it can however, be reexamined.

the only problem is there arent full records and the subject is too vast.

piecing everything together is extremely tasking.

tpia@:



yoruba history cant be rewritten, it can however, be reexamined.

the only problem is there arent full records and the subject is too vast.

piecing everything together is extremely tasking.

That is the problem, but will you commit your time and resources for a course you are this familiar with for the love of it or for the love of truth? i will, if you can't, and i promise to give all my wealth of experience to it and be honest to the limits of my knowledge of the topic without bias. that will make a different between me and anyone else, the "living for this story." but we can all live for it, imagine how Yoruba studies would be in years to come if you can decide like me, that's what i mean that ours is a story of the future.

^ http://yorubaclassics..com/

^ok, i did not understand anything you wrote there, but lets keep to topic.

Yoruba origin revisited.

where do you want to start from?

prexios:
#Sultan Bello concluded that Yoruba were Banu Khan tribe of Nimrod;

lol btw there is no such tribe as "Banu Khan". LMFAO!

also note how bello provides an Arabic origin to further islamic claims while crowther provides hebrew origins to further christian claims.

while traditionalists provide Yoruba origins to further Yoruba claims.


one can only figure whom to believe. .

PAGAN 9JA:


lol btw there is no such tribe as "Banu Khan". LMFAO!

also note how bello provides an Arabic origin to further islamic claims while crowther provides hebrew origins to further hebrew claims.

while traditionalists provide Yoruba origins to further Yoruba claims.


one can only figure whom to believe. .

http://yorubaclassics..com/

well i love people who are open minded to new facts. the fact here is this: both clapperton and sultan bello were writing for a purpose, to justify the reason the Yoruba were enslaved as was believed then that the children of ham descended from cannan who were called to be slaves. now a timbuktu scholar Ibn Baba listed Yoruba among the people that can be enslaved by muslim world durng the trans sahara slave trade, as far back as 15th century. see the book "Oyo empire" by Robin Law for more on this.

As that was the christian belief of the time, it is impossible to write this kind of story from Britain, it has to be written from Africa, and somebody needs a mouthpiece. the British was a conscientious nation, but she participated in the slave trade and its eradication, but the Yoruba also participated as losers and were equally greatly affected, so people were looking for what to blame for the slave trade.

it is easy to blame "the curse on Canaan" for the plight of the black man in the 20th century, meanwhile, it was the white folks that knew that bible stories, not Africans. the British were scheming to put Yoruba history under the Canaan-Nimrod-Hamitic ancestry, as they were equally trying to colonize the people of this country and beyond.

the Yoruba seems to have good tradition or something close to it, but you know, one needs to call a dog a bad name in order to hang it. so the Yoruba traditional religion must go for christian religion to be propagated, not that Yoruba religion is devoid of blemish anyway. there is a need for something new when Christianity came.

samuel crowder on the other hand was actually trying to write a quite different story, he was objective, he is not really going to buy the Hamitic tradition, that's why he made his separate concussion. the story of God created ile ife was not available to crowder, maybe he would have used it, he only believe that Yoruba came from another land and then came to a sea and set fort wading through it or ultimately created a dty land. that is reflections from Odu iwori meji anyway. http://yorubaclassics..com/

as for Crowder, he is not confusing you and I, he only wanted a better ancestry for his people. now if you understand the politics behind what people call Yoruba history, you will know how to make your next conclusions.

^all these your backhanded insults na wa.

anyway, looking at yoruba origins should entail examining the history of the different regions.

ijebu, for instance has benin origin or something like that.

ekiti, i believe, is also benin.

My response will be delivered later.

PAGAN 9JA:


lol btw there is no such tribe as "Banu Khan". LMFAO!

also note how bello provides an Arabic origin to further islamic claims while crowther provides hebrew origins to further hebrew claims.

while traditionalists provide Yoruba origins to further Yoruba claims.


one can only figure whom to believe. .

is it that far fetched to remember arab and hebrew are both semitic.

and neither did you provide a clear reply to the question i asked you ages ago about kanuri claims of origin from yemen.

is your actual problem the idea that there could have been indigenous blacks in the ancient middle east?

the fact here is this: both clapperton and sultan bello were writing for a purpose, to justify the reason the Yoruba were enslaved as was believed then that the children of ham descended from cannan who were called to be slaves.

i will look into this, i doubt that's what happened, however, i stand corrected if wrong.

clapperton entered nigeria through the north, from tripoli to bornu to be specific, and travelled to sokoto from there. he asked about the tribes to the south, and was told the history in question then.

his second journey was when he entered nigeria from the south and travelled through yoruba land to bussa, then on to sokoto.

since the sultan was muslim and clapperton christian, i dont see any common ground as per your canaan story, unless you can prove it (the story) is found in the Koran.

as for Crowder, he is not confusing you and I, he only wanted a better ancestry for his people

not sure what you consider a "better" ancestry- a foreign one or what?

now a timbuktu scholar Ibn Baba listed Yoruba among the people that can be enslaved by muslim world durng the trans sahara slave trade, as far back as 15th century.

were there any people who could not be enslaved by the muslim world?

not aware of that, maybe ethiopians only, not many more.

anyway, feel free to post your links as necessary.

Yoruba can never accept the falsification of her history however quack historians write up.Oduduwa was the son of lamurudu who was killed in mecca during islamic jihad.He had no choice than to live th e city and wondered through egypt,gulf of aden and passed through sudan,chad,northern borno.He reached Bussa in niger and crossed the river niger until he finally get to an unhabited forest where he later called ile-ife (home of dwelling).Many followed him on the way and he had many wives and seven children who later established their own fortresses in various kingdoms such as alake of egba,alaketu of ketu,onisabe of sabe,onipopo of popo,owa obokun of ijesha,oranmiyan of oyo,ooni of ife and olowu of owu.Any other first class oba in yorubaland that is not mentioned was established by the oyo empire.Oranmiyan being the last born left ife and went to benin where he became the first oba but left in annoyance later due to some pronounced differences where he called ile ibinu(land of anger in yoruba).Thereafter,the name benin emerged after various mixing by itsekiris,urhobo and portuguese.He returned to ile-ife but decided leaving sooner to avenge his grandfather killing and revive yoruba ifa religion in mecca but he failed due to unclear ways to the destination and stopped at borgu where he meet some elders presented him a calabash and snake.The elders instructed him to hang the snake round his neck and followed the directions the snake points to and wherever it disappeared is the destination to carry out the revenge according to their beliefs.Oranmiyan did not hesitate to follow the instructions due to his focus on avenge mission but unfortunately,the snake disappeared at a place in woodland savannah where their is no evidence of islamic activities and finally gave up on his mission.He named the place oyo and automatically. become the first alaafin of oyo.Due to old age,he left oyo and went back to ile-ife after installing his first son ajaka as the second alaafin.In ife,the benin elders paid him a visit and pleaded for his return to become their king after the demise of his rival but he declined and told them to install his son owomika(eweka) as their next oba because he remembered he impregnated a benin woman erhimwinde on his way back to ile ife in anger and that is how benin became yoruba ally.

prexios:

http://yorubaclassics..com/

well i love people who are open minded to new facts. the fact here is this: both clapperton and sultan bello were writing for a purpose, to justify the reason the Yoruba were enslaved as was believed then that the children of ham descended from cannan who were called to be slaves. now a timbuktu scholar Ibn Baba listed Yoruba among the people that can be enslaved by muslim world durng the trans sahara slave trade, as far back as 15th century. see the book "Oyo empire" by Robin Law for more on this.

As that was the christian belief of the time, it is impossible to write this kind of story from Britain, it has to be written from Africa, and somebody needs a mouthpiece. the British was a conscientious nation, but she participated in the slave trade and its eradication, but the Yoruba also participated as losers and were equally greatly affected, so people were looking for what to blame for the slave trade.

it is easy to blame "the curse on Canaan" for the plight of the black man in the 20th century, meanwhile, it was the white folks that knew that bible stories, not Africans. the British were scheming to put Yoruba history under the Canaan-Nimrod-Hamitic ancestry, as they were equally trying to colonize the people of this country and beyond.

the Yoruba seems to have good tradition or something close to it, but you know, one needs to call a dog a bad name in order to hang it. so the Yoruba traditional religion must go for christian religion to be propagated, not that Yoruba religion is devoid of blemish anyway. there is a need for something new when Christianity came.

samuel crowder on the other hand was actually trying to write a quite different story, he was objective, he is not really going to buy the Hamitic tradition, that's why he made his separate concussion. the story of God created ile ife was not available to crowder, maybe he would have used it, he only believe that Yoruba came from another land and then came to a sea and set fort wading through it or ultimately created a dty land. that is reflections from Odu iwori meji anyway. http://yorubaclassics..com/

as for Crowder, he is not confusing you and I, he only wanted a better ancestry for his people. now if you understand the politics behind what people call Yoruba history, you will know how to make your next conclusions.

May Shango strike them both with thunder.

One is a Fulani and descendant of the jihadist Dan FOdio, while the other is a man with dubious origins; a slave picked off sierra leone, without an royal or priestly ancestry.

I ask my Yoruba brethren, WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE TO DECIDE YOUR HISTORY?! WHY DO YOU OLLOW THESE PEOPLE AND IGNORE THE TRUE KEEPERS OF YOUR HISTORY, MAINLY YOUR PRIESTS AND TRADITIONAL RULERS??!!!

tpia@:



is it that far fetched to remember arab and hebrew are both semitic.

and neither did you provide a clear reply to the question i asked you ages ago about kanuri claims of origin from yemen.

is your actual problem the idea that there could have been indigenous blacks in the ancient middle east?

Hebrew are Northern Semitic, whereas most (pure) Arabs have origins from Qahtan in SOuthern Yemen , descended from Ancient Himyarite and Kindaite Civilizations, while the Adnanites have origins in Najd and are descended from the ANcient Nabatean Civilization. The Qahtanites spread after the fall of the Ma'arib Dam. Everyone knows that.


Kanuri claims of Yemen are bullsh!t. The Kanem Bornu were Pagans till 1100 AD and most were still so upto 500 years back.

They should go and look at their faces in the mirrors. Yemeni it seems. .

They are Chadic Sahelian and close to us Hausa peoples.


There were and are no indigenous blacks in the Middle East. Ive lived there for long. And I know the tribespeople there.
I can recite all their lineages with apt fluency.

The only blacks there are slave descendants from Zanzibar and Kenya in the East Coast of Trucail States and Oman.

THe rest are slaves from Sudan, etc., in Saudi Arabia.

honifome: Yoruba can never accept the falsification of her history however quack historians write up.Oduduwa was the son of lamurudu who was killed in mecca during islamic jihad.He had no choice than to live th e city and wondered through egypt,gulf of aden and passed through sudan,chad,northern borno.He reached Bussa in niger and crossed the river niger until he finally get to an unhabited forest where he later called ile-ife (home of dwelling).Many followed him on the way and he had many wives and seven children who later established their own fortresses in various kingdoms such as alake of egba,alaketu of ketu,onisabe of sabe,onipopo of popo,owa obokun of ijesha,oranmiyan of oyo,ooni of ife and olowu of owu.Any other first class oba in yorubaland that is not mentioned was established by the oyo empire.Oranmiyan being the last born left ife and went to benin where he became the first oba but left in annoyance later due to some pronounced differences where he called ile ibinu(land of anger in yoruba).Thereafter,the name benin emerged after various mixing by itsekiris,urhobo and portuguese.He returned to ile-ife but decided leaving sooner to avenge his grandfather killing and revive yoruba ifa religion in mecca but he failed due to unclear ways to the destination and stopped at borgu where he meet some elders presented him a calabash and snake.The elders instructed him to hang the snake round his neck and followed the directions the snake points to and wherever it disappeared is the destination to carry out the revenge according to their beliefs.Oranmiyan did not hesitate to follow the instructions due to his focus on avenge mission but unfortunately,the snake disappeared at a place in woodland savannah where their is no evidence of islamic activities and finally gave up on his mission.He named the place oyo and automatically. become the first alaafin of oyo.Due to old age,he left oyo and went back to ile-ife after installing his first son ajaka as the second alaafin.In ife,the benin elders paid him a visit and pleaded for his return to become their king after the demise of his rival but he declined and told them to install his son owomika(eweka) as their next oba because he remembered he impregnated a benin woman erhimwinde on his way back to ile ife in anger and that is how benin became yoruba ally.

are you telling me that this man Oduduwa went walking around the entire Africa and survived in those savage times

btw lamurudu is not an Arabic name. STOP LYING OK! I can speak fluent Arabic. there is no such name as lamurudu.

There is Abdullah ibn Qais, or Hind Al Hunnud, etc., but no "Lamurudu". what a bullsh!t quack.

oh and btw the Arabs followed an entirely different Pagan religion and their Chief Creator God was Allah and they had a different pantheon of dietites.

The Yoruba pantheon is different so stop following these useless senseless stories.

PAGAN 9JA:



are you telling me that this man Oduduwa went walking around the entire Africa and survived in those savage times

btw lamurudu is not an Arabic name. STOP LYING OK! I can speak fluent Arabic. there is no such name as lamurudu.

There is Abdullah ibn Qais, or Hind Al Hunnud, etc., but no "Lamurudu". what a bullsh!t quack.

oh and btw the Arabs followed an entirely different Pagan religion and their Chief Creator God was Allah and they had a different pantheon of dietites.

The Yoruba pantheon is different so stop following these useless senseless stories.

pagan 9ja,

Do not take it personal if you know this much. Why not start putting what you know together and let it come to the light of the day? do not fight facts wherever it is coming from, Do you know if Shango you are invoking on good people was a benevolent act? You are a scholar with idea about other peoples origin and then also, you are quick to condemn someone as a vagabond slave.

Fact is homeless,it may come from you or anyone, it does not need your vex to be true or false and your anger never change my believe, it threat your position in spite of all you know. Maybe i make you react,my point unsettle you anyway? do not react,learn and give us something to learn, the Yoruba is a noble race and you must project that integrity.

tpia@:


i will look into this, i doubt that's what happened, however, i stand corrected if wrong.

clapperton entered nigeria through the north, from tripoli to bornu to be specific, and travelled to sokoto from there. he asked about the tribes to the south, and was told the history in question then.

his second journey was when he entered nigeria from the south and travelled through yoruba land to bussa, then on to sokoto.

since the sultan was muslim and clapperton christian, i dont see any common ground as per your canaan story, unless you can prove it (the story) is found in the Koran.

you know that there was bit and piece of information about the Yoruba from early explorers who traveled through the coastline, they described the Yoruba as a people with developed civilization long before the slave trade got to the peak. this descriptions help the mapping of the known world to the European explorers and so does the traditions that goes with places.

why was Yoruba singled out for foreign history if no one is interested in checking the probable relevance of her culture? can't the history of Yoruba wait as was the history of other people? why not hausa history or nupe history at the said time? what makes the others to be particular about Yoruba history? that is the falsification test.

well i remember you made some good point as to origin of some names, dauda and moremi. this as far as i am concern are just pointers or starters. they end without much fanfare. the stories are not the same but it was as we wish, we have just bend something, i have derailed once i bend a yoruba word, i have put my idea first before cracking the hidden meaning, then the language is no longer teaching me its semantics, i can keep my guesswork as truth.

i talk about traditions instead, i query the time and familiarity in this respect because i work with Yoruba semantics, rather than stumble upon words. the word will furnish me with keenest of insight if i delay long enough, then i will understand the dark side of my subject as all the shades assemble to help me with a choice meaning. i think i am done now.

The Yoruba is an independent culture, it does not ask for origin from us, we are only putting up intellectual task for ourselves, maybe like the man that decipher the hieroglyph and one who uncover the ruins of troy, we may stumble on Rosetta stone of Yoruba origin, one day, just one day. i feel you tpia, i'm not bribing you, but keep finding the clues.

prexios:

pagan 9ja,

Do not take it personal if you know this much. Why not start putting what you know together and let it come to the light of the day? do not fight facts wherever it is coming from, Do you know if Shango you are invoking on good people was a benevolent act? You are a scholar with idea about other peoples origin and then also, you are quick to condemn someone as a vagabond slave.

Fact is homeless,it may come from you or anyone, it does not need your vex to be true or false and your anger never change my believe, it threat your position in spite of all you know. Maybe i make you react,my point unsettle you anyway? do not react,learn and give us something to learn, the Yoruba is a noble race and you must project that integrity.

Yo prexios,

I can stand everything but I cannot stand lies. I hope you understand this thing about me.

I am not seriously calling you a liar. I have all my respects for you. You mightve been ignorant.

you cannot tell me to pen down the entire Yoruba history as that will take several volumes.

I will let you continue, but if you are wrong I will correct you.

prexios: That's why i love the Yoruba, we are equal to the task in respect to our history at all time. i have learn more than i have put up in this pieces, i have only wrote the thread off-hands, without predetermined pressure to this end. as a result, my writing was within 20 minutes thereabout and you may have to pardon my unedited submission. but the general idea put forward can be clearly understood enough.

i know that Yoruba dichotomy exist, that's what i call "megalomania" - that language may be outlandish, but the purpose i want it serve is this, let others who are Yoruba be free to contribute to Yoruba history as long as we have something to learn or our idea to refresh our expertise to exhibit, don't be afraid, we will find one another out for real.

now, i am a believer in Yoruba oral tradition, every written source of the 19th century are 70% goof. no one speak in defense of oral tradition, but in defense of the position that their various communities occupy, in the commonwealth of Yoruba.others who were not that prominent are irrelevant or in the other dichotomy, "Yoruba approper" sort of. for the records, i think we should forgive the "yoruba approper," because there we shall find the old differentiations at the end.

Regardless of which Yoruba sub-ethnic group you pick the message is consistent, that Ile-Ife is our source origin. At Ile-Ife, the next level up, what is their source origin?

Educated but unenlightened people said Ile-Ife had no clue where it came from until Samuel Johnson documented it in his book about the accounts told to Clapperton who learnt it from Bello. Very absurd and insult on intelligence. Who can believe that Great Ife needed an external mouthpiece to autheticate its self-consciousness? Many people can write and speak articulately in english grammar but their intellect is unable to endure a painstaking journey into the depth of human consciousness.

What Bello said in his journals is "it is told that the Yorubas are....."

So who told this to Bello?

The history of contact between Ife and Oyo and the other Empires, Songhay, Mali, Kanem predated Dan Fodio's islamic jihad. Bello's father himself, Usman Dan Fodio was from Gobir, a commercial frontier of Oyo Empire.

Perharps the story of origin itself began in Old Oyo from where Fulani, Hausa, Malian traders in contact with Yorubas took it home into their Empires and made its way ultimately into Bello's journals. Has anyone ever thought of this possibility? What Bello heard and what he told is consistent with what bards and griots of Ife, and Araba of Ife narrated in many accounts given to diverse authors and visitors like Clapperton and Landers, Frobenius and John Wyndham. There is no inconsistency in these accounts. So how could Yorubas be so gullible as to dismiss the oral accounts of the palace but applaud the written accounts of foreigners? I thimk this is where the confusion crept in. The conflict is not in the message but with the educated Yoruba messengers.

If we discount our Araba's accounts as tales by moonlight can we deny the revelations made by the excavated histories of our arts and culture? Are the Ife Heads tales by moonlight?

tpia has said

"Yoruba palace bards were the first recorders of Yoruba origin. Oral tradition is a record. It creates copies of the original which is then transmitted through recitals down the ancestral and generation line."

that is so beautiful, that is the 50% fact. the complete idea is, was it at the palace that Yoruba civilization fan out? no, the founding fathers were actually seafarers as well as explorers. these was the preoccupation of the Yoruba ancestors, they were explorers. therefore, we can not limit their movement to the palace so they can meet our ideals and the projections of "their majesties."

the Yoruba ancestors wandered purposefully throughout Yoruba neighbourhood and established stations with people to develop such places to communities. they were not, maybe not, given to our ideals of "fineness palace people and courtiers" they were empire builders. you limit them through the limit you know every time you assume some people were first in Yoruba and some people came from somewhere to colonize and set up kingdom over them. that's lazy approach to explaining the unknown. the Yoruba ancestors were not political thirsty outcasts looking for who to conquer. that does not mean they were anarchist that did not know about palace and political finesse, but they were purpose driven people who can build a place and create complex leadership systems for themselves and posterity. we are the benefactors putting the finesse in place.

now guess what? the Yoruba ancestors have their recorders, who were putting every of their parchment of history in place as they wander through the dark forest and sea. (you wont like them to have come to the sea, YOU WONT LIKE ODUDUWA TO BE TALKED ABOUT BY SAY, YORUBA RIVERINE PEOPLE, everyone prefers to hear ife - oyo version only, these were Yoruba proper? this is where Yoruba or the world began.)lets try this, assume that odu is short for oduduwa, and ifa was the one that decide if a place is habitable or not, what will you make of this? "odu-ifa" a record system. find your wisdom on yoruba origin here. not in amalgalms of subjective traditions, but filterable facts, if this oppose your religion, go and sit down.

We are talking about a CONSCIOUSNESS....Egba, Awori, Ijebu, Ijesha, ....all are in consent and agree that Ife is the seat of Yoruba consciousness.

I think im done talking for now on this subject. More at a later time.

for these much that we have found closeness in the Yoruba words, piece by piece, believed to have come from Larubawa, Hebrew and so on, what have we done with it? it is easy to scrutinize lovers of what you all love, but will you start a thread on what you love? DUDU NEGRO? what stops you from finding out more about a beloved homeland and starting a thread in that direction? is it the true love for what you know or lack of material for what you love that is keeping you back?



That is the problem, but will you commit your time and resources for a course you are this familiar with for the love of it or for the love of truth? i will, if you can't, and i promise to give all my wealth of experience to it and be honest to the limits of my knowledge of the topic without bias. that will make a different between me and anyone else, the "living for this story." but we can all live for it, imagine how Yoruba studies would be in years to come if you can decide like me, that's what i mean that ours is a story of the future.

^ http://yorubaclassics..com/

Good afternoon, dudu Negro
Good afternoon, Pagan9ja,
Good afternoon,tpia and
all other nairalanders.

well, thats just some finesse. i believe ife as the origin of Yoruba, but i must tell you i believe the Yoruba came from another land. i think it is time i introduce a prevalent commonwealth, the oriki. Everyone in Yoruba land has theirs. first i am not going to buy any source that will stop me from seeking my root, as long as i dont stop another from seeking their roots. i am a yoruba man from awori subgroup.

if that does not offend your sensibility for my right to share Yoruba interest, then i will proceed to what i call oriki. My lineage oriki is peculiar to Yoruba origin this way: "omo oniporogun lode orun." This exerpt validate the Yoruba claim that they came from orun, and that was what make me committed to finding out where this very Orun is. i am not "omo oniporogun lode ife." The Yoruba came from Orun,where is this place?

just as you have found your root down to ife, i did likewise. but i found out that from here a new journey to the origin of my ancestors has just began. i want some clue, you understand? orun is not ife, so i am not from ife, my clan of the yoruba, if that is what it means are from now not from ife, but a place outside the ethereal.

that is the eternal doctrine of Yoruba religion as it spins on to Yoruba history. that is where we parted ways, i am going forward in this quest because i am a seeker "Owa" like my ancestors, i will not coast at the regular stories, because it is not concluded yet. the ife tradition is not conclusive as long as we do not know how orun crept into the legend other than the creation story.

meanwhile, that creation story was plagiarized from odu iwori meji. which talk of secret of founding and gave the glory to orunmila and "okoko-niyele" not oduduwa.(see awon Oju Odu mererindinlogun by Wande Abimbola). give glory to who deserve glory.Give honour to whom honour is due. if we twist tradition, you lose fact and you have fable. give me the facts and lets review it together, don't give me order of traditional dictators, don't switch heroes. let a legend be.

now i am not messing around with fact, but i am not settling for fable. if your perspective ends somewhere let those that can see farther continue and if you dont mind, you can join the wagon. do not be afraid, ife is the origin, but that should never stunt your sense of quest. it is not ooni or alaafin that founded yorubaland, but they were yorubas great leaders and costodians of tradition, that should not loom large to distract you from facts.

PAGAN 9JA:





Yo prexios,

I can stand everything but I cannot stand lies. I hope you understand this thing about me.

I am not seriously calling you a liar. I have all my respects for you. You mightve been ignorant.

you cannot tell me to pen down the entire Yoruba history as that will take several volumes.

I will let you continue, but if you are wrong I will correct you.

i love this part very much, it touches me. i can not throw care to the dustbin all because i think averagely, i am familiar with tradition more than my peers. that was what our forebears got wrong that we couldn't just come to a clear idea in our own time, they forgot we may be curious and be willing to know.

here we are, stretching what we have and may get personal and touchy. do not be offended with my touchy mood in the post to you. we all are jealous about Yoruba history. we are taking up responsibility anyway. we are conscious of a heritage, a good one.

Dudu_Negro:

Regardless of which Yoruba sub-ethnic group you pick the message is consistent, that Ile-Ife is our source origin. At Ile-Ife, the next level up, what is their source origin?

Educated but unenlightened people said Ile-Ife had no clue where it came from until Samuel Johnson documented it in his book about the accounts told to Clapperton who learnt it from Bello. Very absurd and insult on intelligence. Who can believe that Great Ife needed an external mouthpiece to authenticate its self-consciousness? Many people can write and speak articulately in english grammar but their intellect is unable to endure a painstaking journey into the depth of human consciousness.

What Bello said in his journals is "it is told that the Yorubas are....."

So who told this to Bello?

The history of contact between Ife and Oyo and the other Empires, Songhay, Mali, Kanem predated Dan Fodio's islamic jihad. Bello's father himself, Usman Dan Fodio was from Gobir, a commercial frontier of Oyo Empire.

Perharps the story of origin itself began in Old Oyo from where Fulani, Hausa, Malian traders in contact with Yorubas took it home into their Empires and made its way ultimately into Bello's journals. Has anyone ever thought of this possibility? What Bello heard and what he told is consistent with what bards and griots of Ife, and Araba of Ife narrated in many accounts given to diverse authors and visitors like Clapperton and Landers, Frobenius and John Wyndham. There is no inconsistency in these accounts. So how could Yorubas be so gullible as to dismiss the oral accounts of the palace but applaud the written accounts of foreigners? I thimk this is where the confusion crept in. The conflict is not in the message but with the educated Yoruba messengers.

If we discount our Araba's accounts as tales by moonlight can we deny the revelations made by the excavated histories of our arts and culture? Are the Ife Heads tales by moonlight?




We are talking about a CONSCIOUSNESS....Egba, Awori, Ijebu, Ijesha, ....all are in consent and agree that Ife is the seat of Yoruba consciousness.

I think im done talking for now on this subject. More at a later time.

great dear brother, you are firm in opinion already, there is no shaking your believes, only that other places might be less developed outside Ife who are also Yoruba, except a decree stops it. what was ife tradition of origin again? state it and we can start a new quest altogether. i have refrence iwori meji, ifa is earlier than Araba. ife sculpures are fantastic evidence of Yoruba/ife greatness.

^^^^ SALUT!

prexios: Good afternoon, dudu Negro
Good afternoon, Pagan9ja,
Good afternoon,tpia and
all other nairalanders.

well, thats just some finesse. i believe ife as the origin of Yoruba, but i must tell you i believe the Yoruba came from another land. i think it is time i introduce a prevalent commonwealth, the oriki. Everyone in Yoruba land has theirs. first i am not going to buy any source that will stop me from seeking my root, as long as i dont stop another from seeking their roots. i am a yoruba man from awori subgroup.

if that does not offend your sensibility for my right to share Yoruba interest, then i will proceed to what i call oriki. My lineage oriki is peculiar to Yoruba origin this way: "omo oniporogun lode orun." This exerpt validate the Yoruba claim that they came from orun, and that was what make me committed to finding out where this very Orun is. i am not "omo oniporogun lode ife." [size=16pt]The Yoruba came from Orun,where is this place? [/size]

just as you have found your root down to ife, i did likewise. but i found out that from here a new journey to the origin of my ancestors has just began. i want some clue, you understand? orun is not ife, so i am not from ife, my clan of the yoruba, if that is what it means are from now not from ife, but a place outside the ethereal.

that is the eternal doctrine of Yoruba religion as it spins on to Yoruba history. that is where we parted ways, i am going forward in this quest because i am a seeker "Owa" like my ancestors, i will not coast at the regular stories, because it is not concluded yet. the ife tradition is not conclusive as long as we do not know how orun crept into the legend other than the creation story.

[size=16pt]meanwhile, that creation story was plagiarized from odu iwori meji. which talk of secret of founding and gave the glory to orunmila[/size] and "okoko-niyele" not oduduwa.(see awon Oju Odu mererindinlogun by Wande Abimbola). give glory to who deserve glory.Give honour to whom honour is due. if we twist tradition, you lose fact and you have fable. give me the facts and lets review it together, don't give me order of traditional dictators, don't switch heroes. let a legend be.

now i am not messing around with fact, but i am not settling for fable. if your perspective ends somewhere let those that can see farther continue and if you dont mind, you can join the wagon. do not be afraid, ife is the origin, but that should never stunt your sense of quest. it is not ooni or alaafin that founded yorubaland, but they were yorubas great leaders and costodians of tradition, that should not loom large to distract you from facts.

i love this part very much, it touches me. i can not throw care to the dustbin all because i think averagely, i am familiar with tradition more than my peers. that was what our forebears got wrong that we couldn't just come to a clear idea in our own time, they forgot we may be curious and be willing to know.

here we are, stretching what we have and may get personal and touchy. do not be offended with my touchy mood in the post to you. we all are jealous about Yoruba history. we are taking up responsibility anyway. we are conscious of a heritage, a good one.


great dear brother, you are firm in opinion already, there is no shaking your believes, only that other places might be less developed outside Ife who are also Yoruba, except a decree stops it. [size=16pt]what was ife tradition of origin again? state it and we can start a new quest altogether. i have refrence iwori meji, ifa is earlier than Araba.[/size] ife sculpures are fantastic evidence of Yoruba/ife greatness.

Hello Prexious,

I like your quest for deeper meanings into the origin and the unraveling or disassembling of oriki and the manuscripts texts to concile their truthfullness and authority.

I was 14yrs old when I first bought and read Awon Oju Odu Mererindinlogun. I bought it at a bookstore with my school allowance, I was in boarding school. I didn't know who Professor Abimbola was and I could care less about Ifa back then but I loved the style of poetry and the rythym in it. I had the same fascination to it that i had for Quranic recitals. They both have exact same cadence and flow. I was at home on weekend break and my dad saw the book and enquired where I got it, after telling him he then lectured me about what i was holding and who Abimbola was. He took it from me after I finished reading and kept in the family library. Everyweekend after that when Im home we would talk about culture and traditions and ancient manuscripts. He did not teach me about Ifa but he opened my awareness to a deeper meaning in Yoruba and humanity generally. May God rest his soul in peace, Amen.

I do not have knowledge of Ifa verses but I have intimate knowledge of what Ifa represents and its timeline in human history. The language of Ifa text is cryptic. Let's just say Yoruba language generally is cryptic!

For a return to the Ife story of origin I will say we can accomodate the discussion on this thread. It is available in english language and can be viewed here http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/ife/ .

I want you to look at these words below; I will hold off my thoughts for now but at some point I will go into their root meaning, how they connect and their ties to what you already said is the Yoruba founding outside of Ife. I agree, Ife is a settlement, the journey began elsewhere.

Orun - heaven
Orun - sun
Ori - head
Orun- neck
Orukun - knee

** note **
There was a town called Ur. It was the root of Iram who was later renamed Abraham. We shall discuss down the line who Iram was and whether or not this was the Aramfe referenced in the link i gave you. Consider as well the possibility of Ile-Ife being the same as the ancient city of Nineveh, in which the town of Ur was located. Also whether or not Omoluabi is a reference to Noah. Lastly, is IWA (character and deeds) in anyway connected with YHWH?

Dudu_Negro:

Hello Prexious,

I like your quest for deeper meanings into the origin and the unraveling or disassembling of oriki and the manuscripts texts to concile their truthfullness and authority.

I was 14yrs old when I first bought and read Awon Oju Odu Mererindinlogun. I bought it at a bookstore with my school allowance, I was in boarding school. I didn't know who Professor Abimbola was and I could care less about Ifa back then but I loved the style of poetry and the rythym in it. I had the same fascination to it that i had for Quranic recitals. They both have exact same cadence and flow. I was at home on weekend break and my dad saw the book and enquired where I got it, after telling him he then lectured me about what i was holding and who Abimbola was. He took it from me after I finished reading and kept in the family library. Everyweekend after that when Im home we would talk about culture and traditions and ancient manuscripts. He did not teach me about Ifa but he opened my awareness to a deeper meaning in Yoruba and humanity generally. May God rest his soul in peace, Amen.

I do not have knowledge of Ifa verses but I have intimate knowledge of what Ifa represents and its timeline in human history. The language of Ifa text is cryptic. Let's just say Yoruba language generally is cryptic!

For a return to the Ife story of origin I will say we can accomodate the discussion on this thread. It is available in english language and can be viewed here http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/ife/ .

I want you to look at these words below; I will hold off my thoughts for now but at some point I will go into their root meaning, how they connect and their ties to what you already said is the Yoruba founding outside of Ife. I agree, Ife is a settlement, the journey began elsewhere.

Orun - heaven
Orun - sun
Ori - head
Orun- neck
Orukun - knee

** note **
There was a town called Ur. It was the root of Iram who was later renamed Abraham. We shall discuss down the line who Iram was and whether or not this was the Aramfe referenced in the link i gave you. Consider as well the possibility of Ile-Ife being the same as the ancient city of Nineveh, in which the town of Ur was located. Also whether or not Omoluabi is a reference to Noah. Lastly, is IWA (character and deeds) in anyway connected with YHWH?

hey dudu negro,

we are getting somewhere, in fact what you are given are the fact itself, as to ur. my technique is this, i will not push my point about the pointer, Orun, because if i am right and you think exactly what i am thinking (as to Orun)...this is how i think in that respect "fact is homeless, it can come from anywhere, if two people from different point agree on one point, it may contain 80% of the truth." excluding Herbert Spencer and Charles Darwin evolution theory.

preambles
I know Yoruba are Semitic people, but i wont push that pointer, let the fact speak. now i know also, Orun is Ur, but i wont push that either, because it is an ancient link that tells of where Yoruba's ancestors' ancestors came from. if i push Orun as Ur,i got the earliest ancestors which are the ancestors of Yoruba ancestors. i am not interested much in Yoruba ancestors' ancestors for now, but on Yoruba ancestors. if Orun is Ur, then Yoruba are followers of Abraham.

introduction
One day, while looking at a calendar of an obituary, i saw something that baffle me about an oriki of the decease man, there it was written "omo akaimeye irawo" which means, "scion of the one who counts countless stars". before, i used to be Muslim, but i changed because the overwhelming evidence preached to me, i began to feel like Jesus Christ was teaching Yoruba History via "the parable of the prodigal son." it aptly apply to Yorubas in diaspora, those who went into slavery. not only that reading Isaiah make me felt he was lamenting the loss of Yoruba and her neighbours.

hypothesis
why do i say Yoruba are Semitic people? the Yoruba talk of their antiquity as "i-Shem-baye" what that means literally is ishem begot the world or "shem is the father of the world." if that is Yoruba for antiquity, you know what it means. Jesus Christ speaks of a particular time "when he come to himself" that is when Yoruba religion will witness transformation, and its what "surat (110) nasr" may be talking about(that's a huge joke, please)...all things are possible.

now why i deviated from ife origin is simply that somewhere else exist in yoruba origin, i want a far-reaching investigations, believing that ife is the cradle of civilization is just limiting the works that the ancestors ought to be praised for for coming this far all because we've got "wuru-wuru to the answer" explanations to replace the works of ancient scribes.

Do not be troubled by ifa verses, i believe there are correspondent words scattered across Yoruba land, the import of ifa is simply for guide, as its colophons honours the ancient Yoruba scribes who put its records together. we cant tell Yoruba history behind these great scribes of old.

prexios:


hey dudu negro,

we are getting somewhere, in fact what you are given are the fact itself, as to ur. my technique is this, i will not push my point about the pointer, Orun, because if i am right and you think exactly what i am thinking (as to Orun)...this is how i think in that respect "fact is homeless, it can come from anywhere, if two people from different point agree on one point, it may contain 80% of the truth." excluding Herbert Spencer and Charles Darwin evolution theory.


preambles
I know Yoruba are Semitic people, but i wont push that pointer, let the fact speak. now i know also, Orun is Ur, but i wont push that either, because it is an ancient link that tells of where Yoruba's ancestors' ancestors came from. if i push Orun as Ur,i got the earliest ancestors which are the ancestors of Yoruba ancestors. i am not interested much in Yoruba ancestors' ancestors for now, but on Yoruba ancestors. if Orun is Ur, then Yoruba are followers of Abraham.

introduction
One day, while looking at a calendar of an obituary, i saw something that baffle me about an oriki of the decease man, there it was written "omo akaimeye irawo" which means, "scion of the one who counts countless stars". before, i used to be Muslim, but i changed because the overwhelming evidence preached to me, i began to feel like Jesus Christ was teaching Yoruba History via "the parable of the prodigal son." it aptly apply to Yorubas in diaspora, those who went into slavery. not only that reading Isaiah make me felt he was lamenting the loss of Yoruba and her neighbours.

hypothesis
why do i say Yoruba are Semitic people? the Yoruba talk of their antiquity as "i-Shem-baye" what that means literally is ishem begot the world or "shem is the father of the world." if that is Yoruba for antiquity, you know what it means. Jesus Christ speaks of a particular time "when he come to himself" that is when Yoruba religion will witness transformation, and its what "surat (110) nasr" may be talking about(that's a huge joke, please)...all things are possible.

now why i deviated from ife origin is simply that somewhere else exist in yoruba origin, i want a far-reaching investigations, believing that ife is the cradle of civilization is just limiting the works that the ancestors ought to be praised for for coming this far all because we've got "wuru-wuru to the answer" explanations to replace the works of ancient scribes.

Do not be troubled by ifa verses, i believe there are correspondent words scattered across Yoruba land, the import of ifa is simply for guide, as its colophons honours the ancient Yoruba scribes who put its records together. we cant tell Yoruba history behind these great scribes of old.

Yes, Yoruba is proto-Semitic and this is supported and even proven by self-evident truths in the cults, rites, tongue, customs and social order.

Let's talk about Abraham. I will be very prudent here and not go into deep details and I hope you don't mind that.

1. Yoruba follows Noah not Abraham, but to his followers Abraham was an Oduduwa....."Father of a Nation". In the Quran mention is made of a "people of hanifa"; the reference is that they are of "the religion of Abraham". So if Abraham practiced a religion and is called hanifa who was their priest and what were their doctrines and rites?

2. Abraham was the one who erected the foundation and walls of the Kaaba in Mecca and dedicated it as a sacred house of worship to God. In Arabic it is called Baytu l- aram.

3. Is there a connection between Yoruba and Semitic culture?

Iram ....the birth name of Abraham
Aram....the sacred house of God
Aramfe....a divine principal in Yoruba origin story
Urim......one of the two divination paths of Ephod.
Orunmila....the orisha of Ifa divination.
Irunmole.....the agents who complete the loop of exchange between the High Priest and Orunmila.

What is Ephod?
Ifa Odu, that's what Ephod is. The roots are the same when you strip the vowels. -F-D- .

4. The Kaaba was used for many centuries and the name of Orunmila was called in there.....it was an altar for worshipping the God of Aram, which we know was a religion of Hanifa in the time of Abraham and then it transformed into the Ephod of the High Priest of Israel. When Islam arrived, it took occupancy of the sacred house of prayer after flushing heretics out but it retained the fundamental rites of worship practiced by those who called to Orunmila. Why? I will leave readers to come to their own conclusion on this question.

See the first image below. Not too long ago a fella here in NL wanted to know why Yoruba Ifa Priests covered heads like Muslims and Jews. His picture is not clearly distinct to tell if this was an Ifa priest or a Yoruba alfa but I can see that this was a consultation session and the man seemed to hold in his hand one of the instruments of Ifa altar. Regardless, he asked a very legitimate question.

In the second and third image this is Yoruba rite of worship. The fourth image shows a muslim in rite of worship.

....