all4naija: The title of the thread points to Abuja-Kaduna railway. Where is that if it is not Abuja or Kaduna? What is JAMB?

Which planet did you arrive from?

all4naija: The title of the thread points to Abuja-Kaduna railway. Where is that if it is not Abuja or Kaduna? What is JAMB?

stebell: God bless yu too. Me and some of my frnds in dis forum residing in PH City will continue to always look at de gud side of Mr. President. I don't care wat ever Eko Ile. Gbawe, Prof Corruption et al say. I'll keep rooting for GEJ. To all of yu who hv stood wit de progress made by de Pres, I say THANK YU. #TEAM FRESH AIR#

Abok1:

Secondly, if the overhead current transmitters are constructed, where would the FG conjure up the required power generation to sustain the constant need for the individual railway footprints?

oluamid:


That NYSC increament is not true Oo°˚˚˚°. Last time I was paid, it was still 19,800.

Itoroetti :


Are u joking with the above write up?so immediately after abj,u get to kaduna?
I can't stop laughing.

atlwireles:

Which planet did you arrive from?

Rossikk:

Mr Socrates. I'm sure they never thought about that, unlike you, the guru.

Why don't you wait for the project completion. Then you'll see where the power would be ''conjured'' from?

Abok1:


Now I know you guys are jokers, you should have stated in the title that the train project is just starting, then we will take you serious, not lie in our faces about being in the final phase.

How about the practicability of the exercise? I bet you think constructing an high speed rail line is a joke. It is permissible if you guys are ignorant and rather than try helplessly to mask your naivety, you should come out plainly and admit your folly.

How does it benefit an average Nigerian if you embark on an ego boosting project that is simply senseless to say the least? How does investing billions of dollars into Highspeed rail improve the standard of living of an average Nigerian. How does it improve the standard of education?

An average locomotive train which is not HSR costs between €1.29million ("Inspiro" EMUs) to €4.7million (Vossloh Espania), thats expensive in itself, talkless of an old variant HSR engine of the likes of 300X Shinkansen (1996 or 1997) which costs around $40 million each. How many of those would be needed to effectively service the whole country? or you guys are thinking of buying just one HSR train engine to serve the whole federation.

Lets state the obvious when we see it. GEJ is trying, but investing in HSR is simply stupidity and for you praise singers to applaud such move shows your level of reasoning. GEJ should not finish the whole federal reserve or push Nigeria into years of indebtedness all because of senseless projects. There are millions of projects that could be effectively tackled which would be more beneficial to the masses

Rossikk:

Ever heard of Public-Private Partnership?

Rossikk:

Ever heard of Public-Private Partnership?

stebell: because it's not Fashola, it is whack and dirty abi? Young man go find work do and stop hating. It's not good for ur well being. Even if it's a 200L students' assignment, at de end of de assignment, peeps will still use it to travel and dat will be a gud tin no be so?

Let's assume we are trying to finance a metro line in a large, developing but fictitious capital city and we have prepared estimates for the number of passengers expected to use the system and the cost of building the system. Suppose we have a line which is mostly elevated on concrete structures and runs for 15 kms across the city. It might cost US$ 50 million a kilometre including trains and all equipment necessary to run the line - power, signalling control, communications, fare collection, a maintenance depot, stations and operating offices. It could add up to US$ 750 million. Let's assume we have borrowed the money to pay for it and we have got to pay interest at 10% per annum. That's US$ 75 million a year in interest to pay - at least for the first few years.

To cover the interest payments we need to sell tickets - lots of them. Well, we have a large, populated city in a rapidly developing country and our consultants have done detailed traffic surveys. They tell us we can expect an average of 150,000 passenger trips a day. This is equivalent to a medium-sized metro or light rail system and would show a peak hour flow in the peak direction of about 18,000 - 20,000 passengers.

Because this is public transit and we want to attract passengers and we want to keep them from polluting the city with their cars, we keep the fares as low as possible so we expect an average income of US$ 0.50 per trip. This is actually low for the US and Europe but about right for a developing city. It gives us an income of just over US$ 27 million a year. Well folks, this doesn't even cover our interest payments. And we haven't paid for our power yet, nor employees to run the system, nor allowed for maintenance costs, nor a sinking fund for renewals. And we haven't figured out how to pay back the $750 million we borrowed in the first place, which the bank wants back in 10 years - equivalent to $75 million a year.

Here is our simplified annual income and expenditure sheet:

Item Income/Year Expenditure/Year
Fares $27 million
Operations $25 million
Maintenance $20 million
Renewals $15 million
Interest $75 million
Repayments $75 million

Item Income/Year Expenditure/Year
Total $27 million $200 million


So, in our example, our costs are nearly seven times our income and our income estimates are already very optimistic. Here, we are seeing income as 12.8% of expenditure. In most modern rail transit projects the real income/expenditure ratio is between 5% and 20%. Don't forget also that there won't be any income for the three to four years (or whatever) it takes to build the system.

High Speed Line Financing Example
In considering costs and revenue, we can look also at a high speed line. In this example, the project is a 350 km line which is expected to cost US$ 17.5 billion to build and equip. Daily trips are expected to be 250,000, so each trip must generate $19.75 just to cover interest payments. An additional $75 a trip will be required to cover operating, energy and maintenance costs. So far no profit has been included. An airline ticket to cover the same distance is approximately the same price but the trip takes one third of the time. The government would have to finance a large chunk of the construction costs (the expectation is 50%) and they would have to guarantee the repayments to lenders. The hope is that property development in the areas around the stations along the route will generate finance and income to help fund the project. Property can be very profitable but it is also a very high risk investment and it should be regarded as a long term investment. Only a few new railways have generated much additional income through property development.

The Way Forward - Backwards?
The last 15 years have shown that the privatisation of the railways in the UK has not proved to be the success that politicians hoped it would be. It has proved expensive, increasing real costs by 50% pro rata over those of the nationalised railway.

Sources: International Railway Journal, Railway Gazette International, Modern Railways, Railway Age, Mass Transit, Asia Rail Conference 1999.

Abok1:


I am getting bored with your rhetorics and geriatrics, I have stated the multiple reasons why this exercise is wasteful and unnecessary, you haven't countered any of the points raised. On the issue of PPP, no sane Private investor would invest the necessary capital into HSR without guarantees, this are not mere assurances on the part of the government. We are talking about regional guarantees that assures the operator that even if they don't make profits in the home countries, they can venture to other places depending on the forces of demand. Not only that, they need indicators showing precedence which in the case of Nigeria is absent. How do you expect a Venture capital to invest into a country that could not manage a mere locomotive engine powered rail lines? How do you convince them to invest when you can not generate enough power to service up to 20% of the populace without interruption for a long term?

Without mincing words, we are misplacing our priorities.

chidindufrank: The North must be really proud of GEJ's administration because it has given due attention to the daily needs of people of the north.This rail network When completed would boost economic activities in that part of the country.

chaloner:
Please if u are not happy better go and sleep or as well enjoy ur fight in dream dnt u ever come here to make dis silly noise again....... How many so priority work do ur past government did? Its high time some pple like this start receiving slap from each member of nairaland cos wat u re trying to tell us is dat our president can't see. Be careful.

Abok1:


I nearly overlooked your comment, but could not resist the urge to address your ignorance.


I was having a 'civilised' discussion with a person who fully understood my points, but rather than you contribute meaningfully to the topic, you resort to abusing my person without knowing you from Adam. I fully respect your right to asinine comments, but in the interest of respect for the challenged, I will let this pass. Next time when your level of reasoning cannot decipher the points being analysed, simply ignore the statements, rather than resorting to embarrassing yourself in a public forum. I wonder from under which rock you crawled out from. Is this how you slap everyone around you? This shows your level of sanity.

You are the one that needs to go to bed because it's evening where I am.
Now you can crawl back.

Rossikk:

Mr Socrates. I'm sure they never thought about that, unlike you, the guru.

Why don't you wait for the project completion. Then you'll see where the power would be ''conjured'' from?

sarutobie:
It should have sunk into your head by now that nobody is taking you serious..try another tactics...meanwhile keep breathing the fresh air!

Abok1:


Now I know you guys are jokers, you should have stated in the title that the train project is just starting, then we will take you serious, not lie in our faces about being in the final phase.

How about the practicability of the exercise? I bet you think constructing an high speed rail line is a joke. It is permissible if you guys are ignorant and rather than try helplessly to mask your naivety, you should come out plainly and admit your folly.

How does it benefit an average Nigerian if you embark on an ego boosting project that is simply senseless to say the least? How does investing billions of dollars into Highspeed rail improve the standard of living of an average Nigerian. How does it improve the standard of education?

An average locomotive train which is not HSR costs between €1.29million ("Inspiro" EMUs) to €4.7million (Vossloh Espania), thats expensive in itself, talkless of an old variant HSR engine of the likes of 300X Shinkansen (1996 or 1997) which costs around $40 million each. How many of those would be needed to effectively service the whole country? or you guys are thinking of buying just one HSR train engine to serve the whole federation.

Lets state the obvious when we see it. GEJ is trying, but investing in HSR is simply stupidity and for you praise singers to applaud such move shows your level of reasoning. GEJ should not finish the whole federal reserve or push Nigeria into years of indebtedness all because of senseless projects. There are millions of projects that could be effectively tackled which would be more beneficial to the masses

sarutobie:
It should have sunk into your head by now that nobody is taking you serious..try another tactics...meanwhile keep breathing the fresh air!

splashbaby: "Dull-head" I go paste E-Slap for that brainless head of yours for senseless comments...Can't you read and understand figures...He's talking about huge capital investment without feasible profits to service the loan let alone offset the debt itself..If this was your business will you go into such venture?.."animal in human skin"