https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB8FK43ZhlQ&list=WLY0iG1aQ4YRd72vFtm1uRnMzICHQMGg3b

If this man is saying that the Woman can have spiritual authority over the man, then he's got it absolutely wrong. THis is what you get when people want to force spiritual doctrine meet with secular values. The scripture expressly states that these two must be kept apart, even while abiding by both systems. Yes! submit to secular systems and submit to spiritual systems but you MUST keep them separate. A man who forces these two systems together has no idea what spirituality and christian doctrine is about.

You can have a female boss at work, No problem, A woman president, vice-chancellor, bread-winner, governor, etc, Again:No problem. These are secular systems, but You cannot have a woman pastor, evangelist, prophet(there's a difference between gift of prophesy and an office of a prophet), teacher and apostle. These are offices that requires a masculine discernment and control. It's not about having spiritual gifts(though essential) but also about discernment and rulership, of which this office calls for a masculine mind. This is about leadership, not about management, as they two are very different functions. These offices are not about who follows or preaches doctrine, but more about who makes/creates doctrine. It's about who has the mentality to see an alternative and overrule the system/doctrine. The feminine does not overrule the system, she is the system itself.

^^^ Okay, I know this will be gibberish to a lot of people here
Nevertheless, The few who are enlightened will see the wisdom in it.

soo much ideology and human philosophy in da video.

okeyxyz: If this man is saying that the Woman can have spiritual authority over the man, then he's got it absolutely wrong. THis is what you get when people want to force spiritual doctrine meet with secular values. The scripture expressly states that these two must be kept apart, even while abiding by both systems. Yes! submit to secular systems and submit to spiritual systems but you MUST keep them separate. A man who forces these two systems together has no idea what spirituality and christian doctrine is about.

You can have a female boss at work, No problem, A woman president, vice-chancellor, bread-winner, governor, etc, Again:No problem. These are secular systems, but You cannot have a woman pastor, evangelist, prophet(there's a difference between gift of prophesy and an office of a prophet), teacher and apostle. These are offices that requires a masculine discernment and control. It's not about having spiritual gifts(though essential) but also about discernment and rulership, of which this office calls for a masculine mind. This is about leadership, not about management, as they two are very different functions. These offices are not about who follows or preaches doctrine, but more about who makes/creates doctrine. It's about who has the mentality to see an alternative and overrule the system/doctrine. The feminine does not overrule the system, she is the system itself.

^^^ Okay, I know this will be gibberish to a lot of people here
Nevertheless, The few who are enlightened will see the wisdom in it.

I agree with you Okeyzz.

Calling women into Christian ministry is like asking the woman to head the home while the man is there. The reason why women can go into ministry is the reason why ministry has become what it is today: a sham. Nevertheless, I do not say a woman cannot be called to a ministry but it must be under a man. Paul's words are scripture here:

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.


1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

Did the man say women can teach?

I got this from www.acts1711daily.com and it is also my position on women ministers

THE BIBLE AND WOMEN PREACHERS

It is no new thing to find hundreds of churches today, with Women as their Overseer, Teacher and Elder. This concept is totally unscriptural and like so many wrong practices we find in the body of Christ today, it’s imperative we address the subject.

Pertinent Questions

Does the bible allow women to teach?

The answer is Yes! They can teach men and more specifically other women and children.

Can women be Leaders, Elders, Pastors or Overseers over a church?

The answer is No! There is no scriptural backing for women being leaders in Church.



Now before you women, start ‘hissing’ and squeezing your faces, let’s look at the authority on all spiritual matters – the Holy Bible.

If you’re reading this and you are saved, I mean washed with the unmatched blood of Jesus Christ, if you’ve come to the realisation that you have been saved by Grace alone and that the Word of God is alive and profitable for doctrine amongst other things in love, then it won’t be difficult to embrace The Truth. It may hurt a bit, but you’ll still acknowledge and do Gods word (will) and not yours.

Enough talk; let’s delve into Gods word.

We will look at;

Biblical Church leadership
Empty arguments
Jesus and his disciples (The Apostles)
Women in ministry
A joint work (ministry)
Easy Pointers


Biblical Church Leadership

The church of Christ was established on the grounds that Jesus died for us. The church didn’t come to be, because a group of moral people thought it wise to gather and worship God. It is strictly Christ centred.

Matthew 16:18 (ESV)

And I tell you, you are Peter, and I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1 Corinthians 12:27 (ESV)

Now you are the body of Christ and individual members of it.

So we see that Christ owns the church, Mathew 16:18 says; “I will build my church”. It doesn’t belong to any MAN or WOMAN; it’s not an inheritance or gift. And as we see in the first book of Corinthians, we (believers) make up the body of Christ – the church.

Having established that the church is for The Great Shepard Jesus Christ, He (Jesus) can chose to delegate responsibilities as he deems fit – He is God and cannot be questioned!

1Timothy 3:1-7 (KJV)

1. This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3. Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4. One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5. (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6. Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

I guess this is self-explanatory; there is no indication or reference to a woman becoming an elder, no matter how zealous or passionate she is. If you continue to read the passage from verse 7, you’ll see that even the office of a Deacon was referred to men only, not my words, not my thoughts, not my experience, just the word of God alone.

The book of Titus literally spells out the same message, addressing the office of leadership to men. Titus 1:5-6. I’m sure no woman on earth can assume to be a “husband”, now that would be scary! So let’s move on to other examples and instructions in scripture.

In 1 Corinthians 14:33-35; Paul was writing on the mode of worship in the church, or better still how services should be conducted. From this passage we can see the role of men as the leaders in the gathering of believers.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35 (ESV)

33. For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints, 34. The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church

Again this passage shows us Church leadership is strictly the responsibility of men.

Empty arguments

There is an argument that says as long as a woman is not married, she is not under this rule. This is simply not true. In the Church you’ll see that elderly married women have more authority over younger women, as they’re given direct responsibility for them. The book of Titus explains plainly:

3. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4. That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, 5. To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. Titus 2:3-5. (KJV)

There isn’t so much as a hint throughout the bible, in support of this idea of single women having the opportunity to be spiritual leaders! This begs the question: where did we get this idea from?



Jesus and his disciples (The Apostles)

Jesus picked 1, 2, 3…all the way to 12 disciples – all men.

Mathew 4:18-22 (KJV)

18. And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. 19. And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. 20. And they straightway left their nets, and followed him. 21. And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them. 22. And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.

We’ll see that in Jesus’s ministry he had women very dear to Him such as Mary Magdalene, who walked with him but he didn’t make them Apostles. It is not because women didn’t know the word then or were not exposed; it is simply God giving the responsibility of leadership in the Church and home, to the man. Period.



Women in ministry

As I inferred from “the golden questions”, women are not called to Church leadership. Let us take some time now to see biblical examples and references of women in ministry. A classic example in Dorcas, she was known for her work of charity, such that when she died, her works spoke for her. Can you beat that?

Acts 9:36

Now there was at Joppa a certain disciple named Tabitha, which by interpretation is called Dorcas: this woman was full of good works and alms-deeds which she did.

This woman was a disciple, a follower of Jesus, and we see that her ministry was “helping”. When this woman died the whole town gathered, weeping. What an impact this woman must have had on that neighbourhood! She was really loved!

Paul in closing a letter written to the Roman church made mention of a sister called “Phebe”, this woman was very active in ministry. She was known by the church for her good works.

Romans 16:1 (KJV)

1. I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2. That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

This woman was referred to as a patron (someone who supports or champions something). A good example of women in ministry

It is clear from scriptures that women can minister in church, but not has an Elder or Pastor over the congregation.



A joint work (ministry)

The ministry of reconciliation has been given to both men and women alike.

2Corinthians 5:17-21

17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19. To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The book of Acts records the account of a man and his wife; Aquila and Pricilla. They found Apollos, a zealous man bold and eloquent, although all he knew was the baptism of John. Together they explained Gods word to him better.

Acts 18:26

And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.



Easy Pointers

It is a matter of order and responsibility – not superiority
There are no examples of Women leadership in the Bible
Even under old covenant men had the responsibility of political and religious leadership
Jesus’s 12 apostles where all men.
No woman was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write any Scripture
Zeal is not enough reason to disobey God – “obedience is better than sacrifice”.


Final thoughts!

I don’t understand why some women want to carry a burden or responsibility that God has not given them. It’s like a man desiring to carry a child for 9 months and give birth, pray and fast all you like, its simply not Gods plan for us.

When women of God come to the knowledge of this Truth, they will begin to walk according to Gods master plan for their lives and thereby glorify the name of the Lord.

Ephesians 1:18-20

18. The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19. And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20. Which he wrought in Christ,

Shalom!

^great article.d bible doesn't speak in tongues but in plain n understandable languages.u will always find pple who will bend d word to suit there man made teachings.

We have many women leaders over men in the bible. There was female ruler in Israel ,there were female prophetesses in the bible there were female pastors and teachers in the New Testament .there were female deaconesses in the bible. Wetin remain?

Joagbaje: We have many women leaders over men in the bible. There was female ruler in Israel ,there were female prophetesses in the bible there were female pastors and teachers in the New Testament .there were female deaconesses in the bible. Wetin remain?

quote the passages.....

Logicboy03:


quote the passages.....

I would be shocked if he points to anyone in the New Testament... The Old Testament can be conveniently quoted now.

musKeeto:
I would be shocked if he points to anyone in the New Testament... The Old Testament can be conveniently quoted now.

That is the reason I am asking.....I want to see where the New Testament supports his view because it negates it outrightly.

Joagbaje: We have many women leaders over men in the bible. There was female ruler in Israel ,there were female prophetesses in the bible there were female pastors and teachers in the New Testament .there were female deaconesses in the bible. Wetin remain?

Name them, Give their leadership/authority roles and bible references.

Mind you, A leader is not somebody who preaches or introduces another person to the gospel/doctrine, everybody can do that. A leader is not somebody who has a gift of prophesy (which is freely available to everybody to ask of the spirit). A leader has to be a Law/doctrine Maker, not merely a person with spiritual gift(again, everybody can have spiritual gifts). A leader has to have authority even over his spiritual gifts. This is not a feminine spiritual attribute.

[quote
author=Joagbaje]We have many women leaders over men in the bible. There
was female ruler in Israel ,there were female prophetesses in the bible
there were female pastors and teachers in the New Testament .there were
female deaconesses in the bible. Wetin remain?[/quote]

Joagbaje

You have been on this forum long enough to know that a statement like yours need scriptural references.

I am surprised Alwaysttrue has not seen this thread yet.

okeyxyz:

Name them, Give their leadership/authority roles and bible references.

Mind you, A leader is not somebody who preaches or introduces another person to the gospel/doctrine, everybody can do that. A leader is not somebody who has a gift of prophesy (which is freely available to everybody to ask of the spirit). A leader has to be a Law/doctrine Maker, not merely a person with spiritual gift(again, everybody can have spiritual gifts). A leader has to have authority even over his spiritual gifts. This is not a feminine spiritual attribute.

Deborah was a prophetess and was a one time ruler of isreal.
Follow this link

www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/women.htm

I just knew Deborah would surface. hahahahaha

How many of Deborahs do we see in scriptures?

@Ihedinobi, for some strange reason, I could not watch the video so I could not get the meat of this discussion.

@Drummerboy, I am answering this as I noticed you brought my monnikker into this discussion again though it is an old post.
The link you posted above summed up a lot on women in ministry. As Paul said 'he' does not suffer women to teach and he gave reasons just as 'he' would prefer some people do not get married. However, I understand clearly what he is passing accross irrespective. Women have a very important role to play in ministry and the men are best in leadership roles therefore. However, for a woman giving biblical insight on a forum, meeting or discusion on bible matters based on scripture that cannot be faulted is not wrong. Paul was right in saying He does not allow a woman Lord it over a man as that is not right but he never meant that a woman cannot discuss spiritual matters as you have times without number tried to bring accross here.
I answered you once when you brought this up and gave you explanation. I see women more as ministers like Phoebe and Dorcas and Priscilla working with her husband as the women have lots of responsibilities at the home front which many men do not. But even some of the women who have ministries have support from their husbands like Joyce Meyer and if men decide they love to partake of such ministry there is nothing anyone can do about that. There are many ministries run by women for family causes, abused women or children, widows and it often grows large enough to accept other genders therefore, it is quite myopic to try to cage such in a box because of certain prejudices.
In Christ there is no male or female so as long as the word is preached in spirit and truth, God has the final say.

Alwaystrue:
@Drummerboy, I am answering this as I noticed you brought my monnikker into this discussion again though it is an old post.
The link you posted above summed up a lot on women in ministry. As Paul said 'he' does not suffer women to teach and he gave reasons just as 'he' would prefer some people do not get married. However, I understand clearly what he is passing accross irrespective. Women have a very important role to play in ministry and the men are best in leadership roles therefore. However, for a woman giving biblical insight on a forum, meeting or discusion on bible matters based on scripture that cannot be faulted is not wrong. Paul was right in saying He does not allow a woman Lord it over a man as that is not right but he never meant that a woman cannot discuss spiritual matters as you have times without number tried to bring accross here.
I answered you once when you brought this up and gave you explanation. I see women more as ministers like Phoebe and Dorcas and Priscilla working with her husband as the women have lots of responsibilities at the home front which many men do not. But even some of the women who have ministries have support from their husbands like Joyce Meyer and if men decide they love to partake of such ministry there is nothing anyone can do about that. There are many ministries run by women for family causes, abused women or children, widows and it often grows large enough to accept other genders therefore, it is quite myopic to try to cage such in a box because of certain prejudices.
In Christ there is no male or female so as long as the word is preached in spirit and truth, God has the final say.

Thank you for responding so 'well'. There was no antagonism in your voice this time around. The post I put up is certainly my position although I cannot fault your putting Paul in the 'he' category because it certainly was his opinion at that time and their tradition permitted it then. But there is a wealth of wisdom in what he said and you also agree with it in the upper bolded above. However, I am not against women discussing religion per se. What I said and still hold unto is that women do not have the constitution to weather the storms that follows such discusses. Because of the tendency for emotionalism and sentimentalism, women tend to via off point in religion discourses and before you know it, if one is to respond to their frequency, we would all be at each other's throats.

Religion discuss, like preaching, is warfare and comes with a great deal of responsibility that God has particularly constituted men for. Now, it doesn't mean that we do not have some women venture into this perilous field of life (the way you and tgirl4real do), with some excelling greatly in it, but once in a while, they still betray those characteristics as mentioned above.

You mention Joyce Meyer: unfortunately, she is not a very good example at this point. With the health and wealth gospel that woman and her clique espouse, it would be better she was never in ministry. The very spirit of the gospel she preaches is what is making for all these women in ministry we see all around. For me, she does more harm than good. There is a growing welter of women ministry in Nigeria today that take on the guise of the 'Prophetess'. Those people are doing a lot of harm to homes and people's lives than adding to it. They are our own kind of Joyce Meyer but in the third world.

Paul himself mentioned Phoebe and co but it is obvious that whatever ministry they carried out was under a man or their husbands. I agree also that many women are finding ministry to widows, orphans, etc. This is very commendable but it should not go beyond that. Women preaching or leading a church has no NT foundation or even in the whole of scripture.

lol

I can't believe I resurrected this thread. lol

@Drummaboy,
Your commending me is funny as I have often seen you showing a lot more emotions, prejudices and personality into our discussions more than I can think I have. Whenever you tell me I get emotional in my posts to you , you never actually showed me where but I can point quite a number of where you held grouses and all with me and at a point I had to refrain responding as you seemed too obsessed with my monikker with the way you mentioned it here and there but let me let that pass.

I mentioned Joyce Meyer as I see her in ministry supported by her husband. Whatever opinions anyone of us have of her does not really matter. If she feels she has been called into ministry and is touching lives, please leave God to handle it. When you get careful of the way to talk about people it helps you see them with better eyes. That is why I find it quite strange to see the way Christians speak about each other and even those in leadership. Whatever ministry a man or woman is called to handle by God, He will query them whether they went beyond it or did not do as they were supposed to, not by any man for only God knows the intentions of a man's heart.

^ End of Discussion

I hope U make out time to visit the convention thread I have below as my signature. Bidam has already taken us up for not including you as one of the presenters. Even though that it is the way its arranged anyone can present his paper at any point on the thread if they so wish.

^^^^^
I will see what the presenters will show, and I believe we will all learn though I can see the basis for the crop of presenters were anyone who does not tithe...it was so glaring it was even mentioned by one of the posters. I really wondered why @Bidam was therefore so piqued.

Also it will be refreshig to hear @shdemidemi speak on grace throughout the bible as he has often posited that only certain books were written to Christians. Though I think it will do him more good when he studies more.

It will be nice to hear @debosky, @Ihedinobi, @tgirl4real and @Image speak on grace but hopefully they will comment.

Alwaystrue: ^^^^^
I will see what the presenters will show, and I believe we will all learn though I can see the basis for the crop of presenters were anyone who does not tithe...it was so glaring it was even mentioned by one of the posters. I really wondered why @Bidam was therefore so piqued.

Also it will be refreshig to hear @shdemidemi speak on grace throughout the bible as he has often posited that only certain books were written to Christians. Though I think it will do him more good when he studies more.

It will be nice to hear @debosky, @Ihedinobi, @tgirl4real and @Image speak on grace but hopefully they will comment.

Na wha for you o. How you dey naw?

I dey, I dey @Goshen

^ Bidam don say you be 'seasoned' teacher. I know say na God add salt and seasoning to your life, that's why you're the salt of the world. I don explain to him why everyone cannot do teaching at this first edition, not as you wrongly concluded. Why you sef come dey fall hands naw?

@Goshen, no one dey fall your hand na. Afterall na your best judgement you use na, e no surprise me at all. I think I would have been more surprised if you added some of the names @Bidam mentioned o. You are just so predictable that's all.

Alwaystrue: ^^^^^
I will see what the presenters will show, and I believe we will all learn though I can see the basis for the crop of presenters were anyone who does not tithe...it was so glaring it was even mentioned by one of the posters. I really wondered why @Bidam was therefore so piqued.

Also it will be refreshig to hear @shdemidemi speak on grace throughout the bible as he has often posited that only certain books were written to Christians. Though I think it will do him more good when he studies more.

It will be nice to hear @debosky, @Ihedinobi, @tgirl4real and @Image speak on grace but hopefully they will comment.

Yea, that's the spirit sis.

Please note that all cannot present at once as drummaboy is suggesting. It will only make the entire thing rowdy.

Furthermore, I personally didn't scrutinize speakers based on if they tithe or not. If that were to be the case, I will only give the person a topic that will not mention tithing. lol

Bottom-line is, everyone cannot preach at the same time.

@Tgirl4real,
No issues now. I am not bothered at all. Thanks.

Alwaystrue: @Goshen, no one dey fall your hand na. Afterall na your best judgement you use na, e no surprise me at all. I think I would have been more surprised if you added some of the names @Bidam mentioned o. You are just so predictable that's all.

Alwaystrue: @Tgirl4real,
No issues now. I am not bothered at all. Thanks.

Alwaystrue: @Ihedinobi, for some strange reason, I could not watch the video so I could not get the meat of this discussion

Try copying the link to Youtube itself. Sometimes, embedded videos seem to kind of expire or something.

Alwaystrue: ^^^^^
I will see what the presenters will show, and I believe we will all learn though I can see the basis for the crop of presenters were anyone who does not tithe...it was so glaring it was even mentioned by one of the posters. I really wondered why @Bidam was therefore so piqued.

Also it will be refreshig to hear @shdemidemi speak on grace throughout the bible as he has often posited that only certain books were written to Christians. Though I think it will do him more good when he studies more.

It will be nice to hear @debosky, @Ihedinobi, @tgirl4real and @Image speak on grace but hopefully they will comment.

I am quite aghast at what you wrote there about 'shdemdemi' considering the fact that you never like to engage anyone that is not in agreement with you. I believe no one is an authority here hence we are all learning.

if you think what I have said is wrong at any particular time or thread, you could have asked questions then and also show me through scriptures what i am missing. If I don't agree with you even after scriptural proof, I believe a statement like that which you have up there would then be expected.

@Ihedinobi,
Thanks.

@shdemidemi,
No need to be aghast. There is no point engaging you because when we bring out certain scriptures by Paul, you claim it is written to the jews and not the church. Should we start arguing? No need so we leave you. It is not a secret. Please spend time to prepare for your submission and may the Holy Spirit enable you more.

Alwaystrue: @Goshen, no one dey fall your hand na. Afterall na your best judgement you use na, e no surprise me at all. I think I would have been more surprised if you added some of the names @Bidam mentioned o. You are just so predictable that's all.

No mind Gosh, i don't need to wear my prophetic mantle to know their intent and purpose na..Kun and drummaboy were a big revelation.

God bless you sis,Wish you are one of the speakers though,You have a way of making scriptures come alive without lengthy exegesis.