Nowhere in my post did I say your were stupid.

I questioned your mental capacity. .

Interesting how some people reason or try not to before they post.


I did not say you were stupid. . . . I only questioned your mental capacity. Followed by some comical apologies.

he he he he he he!




See the beauty of Nairaland?

Classic entertainment I say!  Classic!

Naija needs all the help she can get. . .plz dnt stop at Army Barrack. . .if there's anymore help US can lend her, plz do!

All those thieving chimpanzee they call presidents/ ministers needs to be swept out

4Her:

Naija needs all the help she can get. . .plz dnt stop at Army Barrack. . .if there's anymore help US can lend her, plz do!

All those thieving chimpanzee they call presidents/ ministers needs to be swept out

You really think the people (president/ ministers) bringing in the Americans will be swept out? For crying out loud, Americans are here to serve American interest.

Tornadoz:

You really think the people (president/ ministers) bringing in the Americans will be swept out? For crying out loud, Americans are here to serve American interest.

sorry darl, you misinterpreted my post. . .

I meant Naija needs US Army barracks and their gov/min (Nigeria's ) needs to be swept out. . understandable now?

madamkoko,
what are they coming to exploit? oil?
what have we been doing with the oil?
don't u think that gold shld be given to those who know the value of gold?
are u saying it will be bad for us to trade in whatsover the americans want from us including human beings to get power supply, security and possibly good roads?
i know uae(dubai) jordan and kuwait as examples of countries where america have interest and they are all living good lives, pls reffer me to countries where americans are exploiting the countries living the citizens are suffering like we are here in nigeria.

Abi oooo!!!

Bastards,there for the oil as against the niger delta revolts,surpressors of truth,yaradua is just another facking puppet,same as others,but for how long?Good over evil.

Some people talk as if they see themselves as destititutes and that the challenge is not theirs,it is just sickening.

madamkoko,
what are they coming to exploit? oil?
what have we been doing with the oil?
don't u think that gold shld be given to those who know the value of gold?
are u saying it will be bad for us to trade in whatsover the americans want from us including human beings to get power supply, security and possibly good roads?
i know uae(dubai) jordan and kuwait as examples of countries where america have interest and they are all living good lives, please reffer me to countries where americans are exploiting the countries living the citizens are suffering like we are here in nigeria.

I am extremely saddened at your pessimism. You seem to be a staunch supporter of slavery, How sad. You don't know much about the U.S international policies. Anyways NO POINT in arguing. You shall use your koro koro eyes see, I've heard many of you say this, Nigerians are suffering but I'm not sure where in Nigeria you lived but NOT ALL nigerians are suffering, stop the generalization. Yes its true that majority live under a dollar a day but not all be sufferheads.

Is it ever possible to have intelligent mature/civil conversations in here without people turning to personal attacks to drive up "support" for their own side of the debate??

@Madamkoko, you do know you do not have to see things exactly the way he does but he is just as entitled to his view as you are and so there is really no need for you to make yourself a QUACK psychologist in this by going as far as claiming to understand his mind and how it works in all totality?

I happen to be one of those who see this as being a good move and chose to focus more on the many positives that can come from this considering we have for decades pushed unions with the west aside under the guise that their sole intention is to come in to kill and pillage but in that same time we have turned out to be the evil ones ourselves. We have lived killing and pillaging our own land but continue to believe the strangers are evil.

I believe it is time we grow up and understand that we can not continue using that fear mongering tactic as reason to continue in this stupidity we have allowed for so many decades now. I call it stupidity, we have openly welcomed people who have learned from these same strangers, without fear of any kind but have remained afraid of tapping directly into the source and standing up to compete on a larger scale instead of settling for less. China and India had to welcome the same USA in to their own borders and look where they are now. We have China and India within out borders and suddenly we feel we are playing with big boys when these so called big boys had to tap from the US before they could get to where they are today? I say give me a break.

Enough of the fear mongering. We have practically adopted all things western already, what have you to loose letting them in and tapping as much as you can from them under this contract?? Why not learn how the world plays the game, it is a mutual relationship where both sides benefit or the contract is null. If we can learn to, instead of cower in fear while we continue to tear each other to pieces, understand how China can have a relationship with this same country and actually benefit a great deal from the relationship, don't you think that will go along way in helping us get to a point where we can also serve an important role to the chinese and basically level the playing ground I believe many on here have yet to read the AFRICOM contract so I wait to actually see people debate facts based on the contract and not delusions as has been the case up till now.

I believe it is time for Nigerians to start thinking big when it comes to what part we can play in the world circle instead of continuing to cower in fear when it comes to interacting with world's bigger than ours. Like I mentioned earlier, AFRICOM has been in Uganda and Sierra Leone or was it Guinea, for a while now and you barely hear of any cases from such areas of their being there?? For those concerned about US interferance, I believe we need to look at what already exists to understand how that fear is likely unfounded and know that it is up to our own government to allow that or not.

Just when did China allow the US to have a military base on its territory? The same China that refused docking rights to the US Fleet a few short months ago?

I do not see any intrinsic benefit of having US forces in Nigeria, except training soldiers further to do the bidding of the 'powers that be' in the country - and if those people decide the soldiers should go burn down another Odi or Zaki-Biam, 100 US bases will make no difference. We DO NOT need any US base in Nigeria, not because they would 'exploit' us, but because there is no additional benefit this would bring, except giving the US oil industry employees a proximal place to run to when the sporadic outbreaks of violence occur in the Niger Delta.

This same US has been reluctant to send troops or equipment into Darfur in Africa where lives are being lost urgently but believes pushing for a base to be sited in Nigeria is more important. I know it is not their job/responsibility to solve Africa's problems, but if they are not engaged in that, I see no benefit in introducing another force into the area, it causes distortions in the military forces present in a country.

Case in point is Chad - when 'rebels' were trying to overthrow the government, the French forces allegedly intervened and beat back the rebels by bombing them and carrying out recon for the government troops. I do not believe those kinds of external interferences are needed at all by Nigeria (if we were ever to be in that situation) The so called learning we shall learn from the US can be carried out by the various military attaches that goverments post to the country as part of their Embassy personnel - training can be carried out in special sessions by inviting the trainers to come. We DO NOT need them to site a base on our territory (effectively converting that land into the 'US' while they occupy it) for such 'benefits' to accrue.

We already have the USA within our borders, along with the french, british, indians and chinese, but we do not need them militarily present. We can organise ourselves properly and sort our issues out. Having a sovereign force on our territory answerable only to Washington thousands of miles away is not a good idea for us. It is not about fear mongering or other such issues - we should not accept it.

As many have mentioned, there is no altruistic reason behind this idea, it is simply for their benefit. Countries within Central Asia with US bases set up 'temporarily' for the Afghanistan campaign are currently asking the US to set a timeline on when it will leave, but the US is refusing to discuss the issue. Once this thing is established, it may become extremely difficult to dislodge.

for clarification purposes 'AFRICOM' has NOT been anywhere in Africa - the 'African Command' or AFRICOM is currently based in Europe, overseeing US military interests in Africa, the US was in discussion with African leaders on a possible siting of the command on the continent, no such agreement has been reached as yet. You are possibly mistaking this for some other US intervention or something else.

Despite the fact that goverment people are crazy in africa,i think there are more sad and miserable people in the west than africa,they got nothing to offer us,in terms of morals or fairness,only us can change our destiny,we are more sane and humane than them,our only problem is bad leadership.Change the way things are done,then you see a new africa.

@Kobojunkie to be honest i really don't see the benefit this base would have either, so why don't you inform us on what you think the possible benefit would be? The examples you used before to cite possible benefits a US base on Nigerian soil will bring sounded like economical benefits. However i really don't see this because we don't need a base before we trade do we? How many years have people been shouting fair trade, fair trade, but it is when asian countries are coming in to offer a seemingly better deal with african countries that everyone is now realising the potential africa has? I really don't see the fear mongering in any of this, it is just that i really can't see the benefit and hence i asked you to name what you think they will be and i hope you won't mention military intervention because US army on Nigerian soil will not automatically mean that at all. However people should also understand because unlike Nigerian government US government always seem to hold the interest of the US people as number one priority (even if it is sometimes seen as being to the detrement of others) which is absolutely understandable as that is what a government should be doing. Hence we should be urging our government to do thesame so the question now remains, is this in Nigerian interest? What are the benefits of this and how long is this supposed base to exist in the country?

AFRICOM FAQ http://www.africom.mil/africomFAQs.asp

Sky Blue:

@Kobojunkie to be honest i really don't see the benefit this base would have either, so why don't you inform us on what you think the possible benefit would be? The examples you used before to cite possible benefits a US base on Nigerian soil will bring sounded like economical benefits.

As the minister was quoted to have said in the article, our military stands to gain a lot more than it has in the past from the US. For some decades now, US military have trained our soldiers and basically helped equip our men with skills they were allowed to. But my belief is that Yaradua, if he wants to, may be able to get, not just more training hours for our men out of this, but technology that might better help us police our country and Africa in a much better way than we currently are capable of; Technologies that will not only aid our military, but go a long way in helping build our tech industry (if we are able to use it to our benefit).

Sky Blue:

However i really don't see this because we don't need a base before we trade do we? How many years have people been shouting fair trade, fair trade, but it is when asian countries are coming in to offer a seemingly better deal with african countries that everyone is now realising the potential africa has?

When we talk of free trade, we all know that to this day, our government has been unable to develop policies to protect local producers and employment. And so free trade has never really been a popular idea, as many believe it would enforce lowering of tariffs and undermine locally produced goods. We have seen this idea persisted through the actions of past governments who have made moves to place bans on importation of goods as measures to help build local markets but I believe that has yet to work.

Here is a link to some ideas some believe is reason to oppose free trade in poor countries, especially in Africa.

http://www.africafocus.org/docs05/trad0507.php

Some African countries have been in the Free trade relationship for some years now and so it is not been implemented only recently but has been in the works for sometime now. So you statement that this only started when Asia came in, is not entirely true.

Sky Blue:


I really don't see the fear mongering in any of this, it is just that i really can't see the benefit and hence i asked you to name what you think they will be and i hope you won't mention military intervention because US army on Nigerian soil will not automatically mean that at all.

I see fear mongering when people continue to use Slavery as excuse not to “let the white man in to Africa” even though we gladly accept everything else. I see fear mongering when people continue to pull out obscure examples of how some countries had failed relationships with the US (without considering the details and reasons that lead to such failures) as reasons for us not to embark on such and explore the benefits. Instead, I believe we should learn from the mistakes of past governments and from countries that have failed with the US instead. China is one country that has gained tremendously from the country. India, Japan, Germany and so many others have as well. Even Ghana is now gaining as well. Why should we not look into it and start from some where?? What have we got to loose?

For the ideas that it is all about oil, I will say, so what? Relationships are usually give and take. If the US stands to gain oil from us in this, why not we consider what we can gain in exchange? Are China, India, Italy and all the other countries already established in the country there to get what they can as well?
Considering the vast number of Chinese citizens, China has most every reason to want to invest in Nigeria to get as much resources as they can. Is it necessarily due to altruistic reasons or china’s need to see Africa developed? I strongly doubt that. Why then make it an issue when the US and other western countries try to do same? Is there really some law against this that makes it a bad idea for us to go for it?

Sky Blue:

However people should also understand because unlike Nigerian government US government always seem to hold the interest of the US people as number one priority (even if it is sometimes seen as being to the detrement of others) which is absolutely understandable as that is what a government should be doing.

All the countries already in Africa are solely there for their own people’s interests and so are guilty of exactly the same you accuse the US of being guilty of. We have seen China’s policies to date have been mainly for the benefit of its own people and as you said that is what government should be doing.

Sky Blue:


Hence we should be urging our government to do thesame so the question now remains, is this in Nigerian interest? What are the benefits of this and how long is this supposed base to exist in the country?

I disagree with your conclusion there. Urging the government to do same does not lead to the question as you state above. I would say the question should be more of Is Nigeria willing to take advantage of this to its own benefit or are we still willing to sit back and cower in fear at the thought of any association with US?? The benefits have been outlined from the beginning, have not really changed much and we stand to gain a lot, even as the other side does. If there were no benefits, I believe countries that already have themselves on the list would not be on it. Be it for the government’s selfish reasons or not, the fact remains there are benefits to this. Only issue is, are we willing to see and explore it or not. The first post on this thread already states one of the major benefits, so it is not a question of benefits existing or not.

@Kobojunkie, using your example of china as a country which has gained, has china got any American bases on its soil? Aren't the chinese very protective of their sovereignity? Then going back to chinese relationship with Nigeria, the deals china has with Nigeria involve them handling projects like building of railways eg the Abuja to lagos etc and other huge projects which you can check for yourself to confirm as well as providing such knowledge and skill transfers to Nigerian workers. The relationship is one whereby we stand to gain a lot. Has china got a military base in Nigeria? I really still don't think it is fear mongering because we are after all talking about a military base. Countries share skills all the time among each other and you don't need to establish a military base for that to happen. Just a genuine question for you though, do you genuinely think the reason the US has for wanting to set up AFRICOM is to gain economically or open trade routes? How come India and other countries have been able to do this even with the high risk market that is Nigeria without involving military? Instead of trying to improve trade or "diplomatic relationship" by wooing the country with a better deal it is by establishing a military base that this will be achieved? Personally speaking for myself, it is not about fear as you claim, it is simply that i really don't think it is necessary, do you?

THINGS TO PONDER BEFORE ALLOWING THE US MILITARY FREE REIGN OVER NIGERIA
Do we really need an American military base in Nigeria? If this is for economic reasons why not sign a trade pact with Nigeria. The last thing Nigeria needs is more ammunition.
How do we know that Mr President bringing this troops won't use America to perpetuate his presidency. America sustained Saddam for many years to checkmate Iran. America trained and funded the Mujahedin in Afghanistan against Russia. Is their a guarantee they won't fund the Niger Delta militants? All over South America abounds numerous examples of how the CIA forcefully removed Presidents that dares to question American involvement in their internal affairs. The King of Saudi Arabia would be overthrown but for America, same with despot Mubarak of Egypt. What most people fail to realize is this, America is not doing it out of love for Nigerians, America is doing it for her interest. Am yet to find any benefit that will arise from a military base. Who are the American soldiers here to attack? Every one knows they are coming here for oil.
US military coming to Nigeria will be a blessing to the militants in the Niger Delta. When the Niger Deltans have a unified command that can negotiate with America then forget the country called Nigeria.

Sky Blue:

@Kobojunkie, using your example of china as a country which has gained, has china got any American bases on its soil? Aren't the chinese very protective of their sovereignity?

I mentioned China to show that even they have a thriving relationship with the US even if it is not a base but I did mention other countries that currently have US bases within their borders or have had in the past. However, the main point is that china depends on the US to a great deal.

Sky Blue:

Then going back to chinese relationship with Nigeria, the deals china has with Nigeria involve them handling projects like building of railways eg the Abuja to lagos etc and other huge projects which you can check for yourself to confirm as well as providing such knowledge and skill transfers to Nigerian workers.
The relationship is one whereby we stand to gain a lot. Has china got a military base in Nigeria? I really still don't think it is fear mongering because we are after all talking about a military base.

Should we then wait till we have a Chinese military base in Nigeria before we decide to take advantage of  the benefits of an AFRICOM base in Nigeria or not??

Sky Blue:


Countries share skills all the time among each other and you don't need to establish a military base for that to happen. Just a genuine question for you though, do you genuinely think the reason the US has for wanting to set up AFRICOM is to gain economically or open trade routes?

I have not in my post alluded to such, so I do not understand the question. I posted the AFRICOM site for us all to read and understand what this means. And I have sited various examples of how Africom has worked with some African countries and continue to do so.

We continue to suffer security wise. If Bringing in AFRICOM will help better train and equip our security forces to handle things better, I believe this will go along way in boosting our economy considering we have not been enjoying the current boom due to problems in the Niger delta which to this day we have yet to get under control.

You came up with Open trade idea and I went ahead and gave you reasons why it is not really the west to blame for all the issues with open trade in Africa and Nigeria as a whole.

Sky Blue:


How come India and other countries have been able to do this even with the high risk market that is Nigeria without involving military? Instead of trying to improve trade or "diplomatic relationship" by wooing the country with a better deal it is by establishing a military base that this will be achieved? Personally speaking for myself, it is not about fear as you claim, it is simply that i really don't think it is necessary, do you?

Must all countries do it exactly the same way?? Some come with trade to offer. Should others come with same before we choose to examine the benefits of such relationships?? I do not see how making this one shade will benefit us. There are different forms of relationships for us to explore. There are benefits to exploring the one and the others. Why should we reject the others cause of the one. China and India have been able to break in and do high risk business with Nigeria and that is, I am sure after considering the risks and what they stand to gain. Other countries, to this day continue to take a cautious approach to such deals with the same country cause of one reason or another. And I would venture to say that cost of such possibly being too high for them is one reason why many continue to stay away.

As I have stated, we need help and if it comes in this form I am open to it. I see benefits and if it takes a base to gain this, I am all for it. We have so far not been able to do so much, so what have we to loose??


Back to the fear mongering issue, I am not saying you are one of those. I am saying we have some in here who have linked this to slavery and even to bazaar ideas of what AFRICOM is about, without some understanding of what the deal offers.

It's about superpower show,military might,babarians,in the 21st century world,all they think about is war,just like the romans,mistakes of the past still repeating itself.they never learn and as well as mad quest for oil to feed their greedy and unnecessary consuming market,dickheads.

Anybody with real eyes can see that oil is already causing chaos in america,as well other western world,it is grinding the economy,all the big car industries are cutting down,people are learning to adjust  their hypnotic spendings,and that is strictly against capitalist world policies,people must still be poor for the rich to get richer.

The need to monitor the chinese in their scramble for african natural resources is another factor,all of them are there for exploitations,not for the people,they need to feed their ever growing nature destructive markets with african natural resources,africa is the last frontier  and we are letting them get with it as if we are all deranged and lifeless.

Oooh,cry blood africa,cry blood.

@Kobojunkie, however as someone stated earlier, AFRICOM is not an old thing, it is actually a new idea the US is trying to push forward. Which other African country has had AFRICOM in it? Because to the best of my knowledge almost all african countries rejected the idea.The whole economic and market approach i was using was just one approach but the motive behind using it was not as you say me saying we only need one kind of relationship. For me it is not about that at all, as i stated before countries share skills all the time and my stand on this is simply based on wether it is necessary. For me, i personally don't believe a US base is necessary, there can still be training etc without that, countries do it all the time. If not for the history of governance we have i would not be bothered as much about this because i will trust government to be sensible and look out for the best interest of Nigerians. However, given the whole bakassi fiasco and history of greed etc, i say that whatever decision is made, the whole thing should be scrutinised by the house and sorry but i still don't see the necessity of the base.

Do we have a goverment in nigeria that will protect the people interest?i don't think so,goverment that is practically destroying her own people.

Sky Blue:

@Kobojunkie, however as someone stated earlier, AFRICOM is not an old thing, it is actually a new idea the US is trying to push forward. Which other African country has had AFRICOM in it?
Because to the best of my knowledge almost all african countries rejected the idea.

AFRICOM was initially based in Germany and was recently moved to Africa. Uganda happens to be one of the countries that has has a base in it converted to an AFRICOM base for some time now.


Take a look at these sites to see what it is already involved in
http://www.africom.mil/africomFAQs.asp

http://www.africom.mil/activities.asp

Sky Blue:


The whole economic and market approach i was using was just one approach but the motive behind using it was not as you say me saying we only need one kind of relationship. For me it is not about that at all, as i stated before countries share skills all the time and my stand on this is simply based on wether it is necessary. For me, i personally don't believe a US base is necessary, there can still be training etc without that, countries do it all the time.

Sure there is the give and take in relationships but you keep reducing the AFRICOM idea to just training our soldiers which it is not even about. Our Soldiers have continued to receive training from the US and will but I see there being able to get more as a benefit as outlined in the article. When I say more, I mean more than just the occasional visits from the US soldiers which has been the trend in the past. I have had the opportunity to have conversed with some of the soldiers who have flown at one time to another, to Nigeria every, to train our men and from talking to them, I am of the mind that we stand to gain more if we had them available for longer periods.

Sky Blue:


If not for the history of governance we have i would not be bothered as much about this because i will trust government to be sensible and look out for the best interest of Nigerians. However, given the whole bakassi fiasco and history of greed etc, i say that whatever decision is made, the whole thing should be scrutinised by the house and sorry but i still don't see the necessity of the base.

Of course, I expect the government to make sure that this contract is one that benefits us in the short term and in the long term. I see tremendous gains considering the history of our government and where we are looking to go with Nigeria as a whole now. I expect the US to try to get as much as it can from this and on that note, I however expect our government to make sure to do same.

@Kobojunkie

I see tremendous gains considering the history of our government and where we are looking to go with Nigeria as a whole now.

Please can you be specific?

Tornadoz:

@KobojunkiePlease can you be specific?

Please go to the AFRICOM site to see what others have gained. Consider other countries that have had this sort of relationship and what they have gained and then you know what I mean.

@Kobojunkie
I stated above why I think Nigeria don't need an American military base, but you continually support this venture without providing reasons for your optimism. I also notice you extensively pasted word for word from the AFRICOM site . If you so believe this "I see tremendous gains" surely you should be able to tell us rather than quoting word for word what AFRICOM wants us to read.

Tornadoz:

@Kobojunkie
I stated above why I think Nigeria don't need an American military base, but you continually support this venture without providing reasons for your optimism. I also notice you extensively pasted word for word from the AFRICOM site . If you so believe this "I see tremendous gains" surely you should be able to tell us rather than quoting word for word what AFRICOM wants us to read.

This is not the first post on Africom. I have stated in posts above some reasons why I believe this to be a good plan if we are able to make a good deal. If you have read those and believe it is not enough for you, that is fine by me, as I am not here to change your mind. I am simply here to state that from what I have learnt of it, I believe there are benefits to this for us. I refer you to the AFRICOM site so you can get a better idea of what AFRICOM is currently involved in today and gauge for yourself.

africom bullshit,we are suppose to be sovereign nations relying on the military strategy and assistance of prospective enemies,like a hiding ostrich.I wonder what we think of independence as a people.

redsun:

africom bullshit,we are suppose to be sovereign nations relying on the military strategy and assistance of prospective enemies,like a hiding ostrich.I wonder what we think of independence as a people.

Most great countries of this world have US military base on their soils. eg Japan, Germany, Great Britain on and on.

People haven't been able to kill mosquitos,they are talking of military straategies.What is there to protect in nigeria?if not the oil that is already in their pangs'

Military base in japan is there by force,so is germany,britain,their blood ally and economic dependant.Do you know how many british black acquired islanders in the south pacific have horrendously displaced in the name of setting up american military bases?Do some findings.

Police of the world,who needs a redneck police?

There are tons of lame excuses to offer here. Same excuses we have been using for at least 20 years still apply today. How much longer are we going to buy those same as reasons not to consider what is as it is and figure things out more intelligently, even if we, in the end find we have less to gain?? I believe it is time we start coming up with better excuses than recycling the same old nonsense.

What reasons are you giving youself apart from the same nonsense of a comic begger and dependant?

What exactly does America want to do on our soil? we are not a Nation that is constantly at war and so we dont need any bogus excuse for American military support.

May God destroy Yar A'dua and the National Assembly members if they sell us completely to America.

PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM ARE VERY DENSE OR THEY CANNOT READ.

WHERE IN THE ARTICLE DID IT STATE AMERICA WANTS TO BUILD A BARRACK IN NIGERIA?

JUST JUMPING INTO SENSATIONALISM AND EMOTIONS LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO DEVOID OF LOGIC.

NIGERIA SIMPLY STATED IT ACCEPTED THE POLICIES OF AFRICOM IN SO MUCH AS IT HAS TO DO WITH WORKING WITH AFRICA'S HOME GROWN DEFENSE FORCE.

THE FACT REMAINS THAT NO US MILITARY BASE WILL BE IN AFRICA. PLEASE LEARN TO READ ENGLISH. OLODO GBOGBO