luluosas:
Let me point out the places where Timothy Adigun, the writer of this topic is in ERROR concerning the bible. Remember, I am going to counter him based on his erroneous misrepresentation of the bible and should choose to disagree please, go and read the post over and over again.
Let's start from here:

Wouldn't this have been more appropriate if this was the subject matter, instead of creating an impression that you don't believe in heaven and hell, with the misleading title? After all, 1 John 4:1 warned us not to believe every spirit.

Is this not rather hypocrisy and self seeking? Does this Timothy Adigun read his bible at all? If he does, what will he (Timothy Adigun) says concerning the following scriptures? John 11:38-44, 2 Kings 4:19-20; 32-35, Ezekiel 37:1-10, Luke 7:12-15.

Is this not rather hypocrisy and self seeking?

This is exactly the position of Timothy Adigun in his post. He has concluded that the fact Abraham told the rich man in hell that, even if someone should rise from the dead, they will not believe Luke 16:31.

Please, find time and read this link https://www.facebook.com/hi.ti.10/posts/490720654332134?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C8519232288 I know that you don't believe in testimonies or revelations of heaven and hell but try and read this 15 years old Yoruba boy experience.
However, here is a quotation from it whether you believe it or not.
("Later, the fire rolled up another man with a big stomach, with a wrinkled body. This man asked me, ‘My son, do you normally read the Bible especially the Book of Matthew?’ I answered ‘Yes’.
The man continued, ‘Do you remember the story of Lazarus and
the Rich Man? Would you believe if I tell you that I am that rich man?’. I said ‘No’ because I have always thought the story is a mere parable. The man told me that it is not a parable and that he has been in hell for close to four thousand years and the hope of coming out is gone. He even surprisingly quoted the
Bible passage ‘What shall it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul’.
He explained that the reason he quoted that passage is because he gained all the riches on earth, but now he is helpless and doomed forever, but for me, I still have the
opportunity and that I should tell the whole world. He then explained further that nobody has any excuse to miss heaven, because on judgment day if any poor person ascribes his missing heaven to poverty, Lazarus who was a poor man would stand up and condemn the person and say, ‘Look at me, I was poor, yet I made heaven’. For those that are rich too, Abraham
would be waiting for them to disprove whatever excuse they may
have by saying,’ Look at me, I was rich, yet I was able to make it to heaven.’ So there is no excuse for anybody. The fire rose and brought the rich man down into eternal damnation."

You 'agree' that their experience is not new. Isn't this rather a double standard? Why do you have to agree in the first place? As for them speaking more of hell, instead of heaven according to you, how I wished Jesus Christ never spoke about hell Himself Matthew 18:9, Mark 9:43; 45; 47, Matthew 5:29-30, Luke 16:23, Luke 12:5, Matthew 10:28.
Outer darkness also referred to hell fire Matthew 8:12; 22:13; 25:30.


Yes, the same way John was asked to seal up some of the revelations he was shown but at the same time, he was asked to write some Revelation 10:4; 1:11; 19; 14:13; 19:9; 21:5. It was the same case with Daniel too in Daniel 8:26 and 10:14. However, have you forgotten the bible says the Holy Spirit reveal things to you? 1 Corinthians 2:10.

That is very correct but you failed to realise that, the secret things belongs to God but revelations belongs to us Deuteronomy 29:29 and that, whosoever Jesus chooses to reveal things or manifest Himself to, He does without seeking your approval, acceptance or beliefs Matthew 11: 27, John 14:21.

Is this man (Timothy Adigun) a Christian at all? If he does not believe that there's hell, is he now saying there's purgatory which the Catholic church are using to deceive their members? Isn't this a direct contractions to the bible? Luke 16:19-31.

Oh my God! Is this man (Timothy Adigun) faulting the bible here or what? Psalms 119: 89. Does he mean to say he knows more than the people the Holy Spirit inspired to write the bible? 2 Peter 1:20-21, 2 Timothy 3:16.
May the Almighty God deliver His children from the deception of the devil in the churches in Jesus name, amen.

otijah: My God, am scared!!!!

Ayatullah:

@ INFONUBIA, your write up is that of a confused soul........if you do not believe in Heaven or Hell , that means you do not believe in Reward for Good and Punishment for Bad Deeds. Why can't you use common sense to look at what obtains in this world where you have the principle of Reward and Punishment in every society?

free2ryhme: heaven and hell is real ...

in my opinion i totally disagree with everything you have analyze up there abt heaven and hell not existing


I stand on this verse of REV 20:15

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

luluosas: @Timothy Adigun, unfortunately the story of heaven and hell according to the bible and these revelations you are trying to discredit are TRUE.
Whether you believed the bible and disapproved human testimony about heaven and hell is immaterial because humans that hell was not originally created for are there right now.
Therefore, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, so that you will not end up there. God bless you.

infonubia:
Come of it man! Did u read the post all? I get angry when people say "if u want to hide anything from a black man, put it inside a book" because I know a lot of intelligent black people who take time to read. Unfortunately comments such as this makes me wonder if whoever came up with that quote was right after all. You just saw the title and you ran with it. SMH

Kslib: See them as usual!
Very very lazy set of people who prefer to rather swallow any garbage someone throws at them packaged with a religious label rather than sit down and reason like the humans with brains God created them to be...
Look at how the op beautifully brought out his points with valid explanations,but the best most of the religious drunk lost souls could do was to start warning him on how not to incure the wrath of God... ..........
Rather than bring out their own valid points to counter-attack that of the op's,they resorted to the cheap way of putting "fear" in his head just like they're known for..
..
Deluded bunch who think sitting down,analysing,thinking hard and asking questions about things in religion/xtianity which aint clear to you automatically means 'you're incuring the wrath of God/provoking him' ...
...
All izz well!

Ayatullah:


There is nothing to sit down and start analysing and thinking about in the 'mumbo-jumbo' of a write-up you are praising. This is the way of those who want to misinform and misguide people, they write in arrogance this is why a lot of Pastors have turned the Bible upside down with different interpretations, hence qualified to be called Lawyers and not Pastors. So you are the one that is deluded and is flowing with a confused soul.

Kslib:
See this one!! Anyway,i don blame you cos i was quite expecting to get this kind of reply from 'the association of deluded religious drunk lost souls who are mentally lazy to reason and look for cheap lame excuses to justify their old beliefs cos they are scared of knowing the truth, hence,gulp down any grabage thrown at them with a religious label cos it re-affirms their already old beliefs and gives solace that they're on the right track'..
..
Did you even read the op's article atall? Maybe you just read the 'title' of the thread and jumped into conclusion just like most of your fellow gang members have done so far...
The title of the thread needs to be modified BUT i urge you to read and know what the op was talking about before spewing the garbage your kind have been known for since 1960...
..
All izz well!

infonubia: [ It's a long read.. Please, I promise it wouldn't take more than 10 minutes ]

If I ask whose report would you believe? Without knowing what am talking about, your religious mind will simply say "I believe the report of the LORD".

Unfortunately, that is not true on several matters. And one of such matters is that of life after death.

Yes Death!!! I know many of us are afraid to mention it. Yet we sing of "going to see the Lord...soon and very soon," forgetting that we have NOT only pass from death to life, but that death has been destroyed .. "... Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel..." - 2 Timothy 1.10. That is a topic for another day.

My concern this morning is whose report would you believe on the matter of Life after death?

I read from someone this morning asking about some people who died and came back to life and their testimonies. And I heard someone said a while ago that, some of these people even mention names of pastors (who are renown) they saw in hell.

Well, I choose to believe the report of the Lord as recorded in his word (the Bible). Not the testimonies of men which at best will only put fear in men. And engineer them only to please GOD within their own strength.

Why I don't believe these testimonies?

1. No one ever dies and come back except the LORD Jesus Christ himself. At best these people's testimonies are "NEAR" death experience. If they really died, then it is all over. It is appointed for man to die ONCE and after that judgement! So, I would take God's word over man's experience.

2. What else can someone's testimonies or experience tell that can be more accurate than the word of God? Read the very words from the very lips of Jesus himself on the account of life after death [..The Rich Man and Lazarus..] in Luke 16:19-31 --
...He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 'No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'
Verses 27- 31 is the conversation between the Rich man and father Abraham. It is very clear that if we don't believe God's word now and here even if someone rises from the dead, we would NOT believe or be convinced.

3. These people's experience is not NEW, but I only wonder why they speak more of hell and not heaven. They tell more of how people didn't make it.

But listen to another man or a man that knows another man in scripture with such experience and his own testimony ...
..I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.
And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—
was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that NO ONE is permitted to tell... (2 Cor. 12:2-4)
Please, did you hear Paul? Things that NO ONE is PERMITTED to TELL!! So, why are these ones not, only telling theirs but are making money of such testimony? Some sell tapes, CDs and DVDs!

At best, Paul called that experience "visions and revelations from the Lord." When that actually happened we don't know, though Paul said 14 yrs ago, from the time he was writing the letter. But we know he was once stoned (to death -- that was the thought of those who stoned him) in Lystra [ Acts 14:19 ].

Obviously he was talking about himself. However, what surprised me is that he didn't start telling stories of who and who. He should have, since he was testifying of his Apostleship ( read from chapter 11 to get the whole gist ).

My point: All the details we need is already given in God's word. The original purpose of hell was for the devil and his angels.

4. Who is in HELL (lake of fire) and those not there wouldn't help you any further.

Moreover, no one is in hell [ That is what is called "the Second Death" ] NOW until after what the theologians called THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT! recorded in Rev. 20. Please compare Luke 16:23 with Revelation 20:15. Reading from verse 1 or 2 will definitely help.

Yes I'm aware that KJV translated v. 23 to say "in hell" instead of "in Hades (the realm of the dead)". Revelation 20, will clear the air, that the devil goes in there first, AFTER the beast and false prophet then death and Hades and then others whose names were not found written in the book of life. Please read Revelation Chapter 20 - 22 to get more clarity on this.

5. It surprises me that some Christians, now need somewhat testimonies to know who goes where, and themselves are not even sure of their own destination.

Maybe this could be of help this morning:

a. No one is condemned or judged because they are SINNERS. Every man is condemned because primarily he/she REJECT God's provision for SIN. These are not my words, that is God's word:
16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. - John 3.
Please did you see verses 18? "...but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, [ WHY ] because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.."

What then is the CONDEMNATION? verses 19 "..And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.."

But someone might say, Revelation 21:8 says
..But as for the cowards and the ignoble and the contemptible and the cravenly lacking in courage and the cowardly submissive, and as for the unbelieving and faithless, and as for the depraved and defiled with abominations, and as for murderers and the lewd and adulterous and the practicers of magic arts and the idolaters (those who give supreme devotion to anyone or anything other than God) and all liars (those who knowingly convey untruth by word or deed)—[all of these shall have] their part in the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone. This is the second death....
Yes, you are right, but do you start talking by using the word "BUT"? So, read verse 7
..He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son..
Link that with
..Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: ...and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? - 1 John 5:1,4-5 (KJV)
What saves us is the faith in Jesus Christ and his finished work. No more, no less!!!
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." -- John 17:3
These are things that gives me assurance that if I close my eyes in death today, I will open them with the Lord! Not somewhat testimonies.

Then someone may then ask me, "are these people telling a LIE?" Well, I don't know.

What I know is "let God be found true, though every man be found a liar..." I would rather believe God's word than man's testimonies that can change tomorrow. What if they wake up tomorrow to change the testimonies? What happened to those whose faith is anchored on such?

If all these testimonies have no correlation with God's word, I can't believe them.
..And when the people [instead of putting their trust in God] shall say to you, Consult for direction mediums and wizards who chirp and mutter, should not a people seek and consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living? [Direct such people] to the teaching and to the testimony! If their teachings are not in accord with this word, it is surely because there is no dawn and no morning for them." -- Isaiah 8:19-20

.....Stories And Testimonies. -- Join this with the title of this write up. I got you...

Happy New Month!

Timothy Adigun

http://www.infonubia.com/2013/08/why-i-dont-believe-in-heaven-and-hell.html

zadok_the_pt:
What the title of the POST is, is not the issue if you have read it to the end! The OP said ".....Stories And Testimonies. -- Join this with the title of this write up. I got you..." Obviously, if you have read without a coloured "google" you would have seen that. The writer never said he didn't believe in Heaven and Hell. He said he didn't need a man's testimonies to believe what God's word teaches clearly. Moreover, the scripture ask you to test every spirit to known which is of God! Not to just TEST! Am sure, like Peter whose religious mind would not allow to see what God was doing, when he knew it was the Lord asking him to raise, kill and eat. That is what you have just demonstrated here. The topic or title was not mis-leading in anyway if you have humbly read with an open mind first.
How is that?
Please, check my response to [juiceysly] which goes thus:
lol... Yes, Lazarus, the widow's son from Nain - Luke 7:11-17, Daughter of Jairus - Mark 5:21–43, Matthew 9:18–26, Luke 8:40–56, Dorcas - Acts 9:36-42, Paul - Acts 14:19.
1. All of these mentioned in scriptures were RAISED back to life. They didn't come back by themselves. Some-people or someone raised them back ( of course by the power of God ). Nobody prayed Jesus back.
2. All of these still died afterwards. Only Jesus came back and is still alive forever more.
3. All of these people mentioned in scripture had no glorified bodies when they came back. Only Jesus did.
4. None of them brought back a message from God ... There is no need for IT! God's word is enough!

The resurrection of the dead hasn't happened! And God is not selective about it! The Dead in Christ will raise again but not on individual bases. Though in relation with the death of Christ the scripture stated it so clearly that "IT IS APPOINTED for man to die ONCE.." Heb. 9:27. Not twice or three times.. So, in that light, I think the "revised 9ja version" of the OP is a lot better than those ones you carry about but you will not read!
To add to that Ezekiel 37:1-10 is not a real event, it was a VISION!!! Please go read it again. Verses 1 and 11 made it so clear... that is the mistake of the Proud, they don't read well ... labeling others as speaking ERROR!

Please, can you show me in scriptures where anyone who rose from the dead brought "messages" for others from GOD?!

I don't think the (Timothy Adigun) believes their testimonies at all. And I agree with him, because If the word of God is NOT enough, then NO MAN's word would be enough!!! Please, let me mock your believe of message from the DEAD! Did you read about SAUL and the consultation of the witch of Endor in I Samuel 28:3–25? Who did the witch saw? If you say Samuel, then I know you don't read your bible at all! Am waiting for your answer please!
Let me ask you again, what other revelation is greater than that of God's word? Your dreams and revelations?! I see...

Christian pele ooo! Who called you Christian? Is that the name you are called by the one who redeemed you? Will you rather answer the name given to you by your antagonist or the one given by your parents? Christian was a nickname first given to the believers in Antioch and it was mentioned about 4 times in scriptures when persecution is in context, go back and read it. So, (Timothy Adigun) doesn't need to be a christian. But if he knows the Lord, he might chose to go by any "name"!
The OP never said he doesn't believe in Heaven and Hell, stop reading your religious mind into what was not said, he said he would believe God's word than men's word. So, that is his crime now?! Shea? to believe God's word above men's word. I see.... Believe what you want lobatan!!!

iyimide:

Mr man, do you understand English at all? Did he say heaven or earth is not real? He only says these testimonies from mere men which do not conform with the bible can not be anchored upon! Open ya eyes!

Ayatullah:


If you believe the title needed modification, then that shows 'All is not well' with you and your beloved OP...........When you cannot give proper title to your write-up, then you have failed right from the beginning...........you do not lure people to read your meaningless write-up, with a FALSE title, It only shows you are mentally lazy, it could have even been worth it if the writing is meaningful.

Kslib:
Stop twisting the whole thing! Its the content we're dealing with here. I marvel at how you comfortably called someone who could write that long "lazy", and at thesame time, spare those who couldnt read, but drew conclusion from the title.
Who is mantally lazy btw the two?
The writer,or the reader/s who couldnt read but jumped into conclusion?
..
The title needs to be modified cos its so glaring that what most peeps were doing was just to draw conclusion from the title without reading the content,or reading,and then attacking based on title cos thats the only ish they got and the only loop-hole they can use since they got none from the write-up..
Well,it too late cos the thread has already stretched her limbs to its elastic limit,and as usual,the damage has already been done.. We are on the 5th page and i doubt if the thread can stretch past this page..
..
Lastly,from your reply,its safe to say 'you agreed with the write-up, be it consciously or subconsciously but found the title a little-bit uncomfortable'..
..
All izz well!