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The Truth About Homos.exuality And Christianity - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Re: The Truth About Homos.exuality And Christianity by kimco(m): 8:14am On Sep 18, 2013
rhetorics, rhetorics, everywhere.
Re: The Truth About Homos.exuality And Christianity by Nobody: 9:44am On Sep 18, 2013
okeyxyz:

My point is that hom.ose.xuality is an effect of flaws in our nature(sin-nature). These effects can be active from birth or they develop over time during our growth and development. By flaws, I mean our normal, natural characteristics are suppressed/interrupted by opposing(and abnormal) forces/mechanisms so that our natural characteristics (in this case: se.xual interpretations/characteristics) are either totally or partially defeated and the opposing characteristics are domineering and influencing our interpretations, so that we respond se.xually to people of the same sex instead of the natural response to the opposite sex.

By suppression, our organic systems can be interrupted and malfunction during development in the womb so that we are born with a disposition to interpret (se.xual) stimulus in a contrary(to the natural..) manner like hom.ose.xuality. Likewise, even when we are born normal, social interactions also enforce values and interpretations that are contrary to our natural dispositions, forcing our developments to take alternative paths because the natural paths are suppressed, condemned and shamed. This is a sub-conscious formation and by the time we realize it, we are already fully formed into these alternative se.xualities.

Now my point is that all these biological and social forces that interrupt/suppress our natural paths to development emanate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which was actually the law of Moses before it was documented and religiously/legally enforced on Israel, but It's effect has been active as part of human nature since it's adoption by Adam.
Now I understand.
But I don't agree with you. I don't think homosexuality can be interpreted by any organic phenomenon. I've never heard of or seen it myself. Not really strictly because of this, the reasons weigh far too enormous.
From the biological-organic level, we would as an indication of a homosexual new-borns, observe conspicous variations in form with those we may classify as heterosexuals. But in such life, we are yet to observe any variation with those of the heterosexuals.
We cannot explain homosexuality as a biological anomaly if we cannot isolate the said anomaly in every potential homosexual. A check on the anatomy and functional anatomy, physiology, of these humans show a set of beings with similar structure and function to the heterosexual beings. They don't come with different physical characteristics.
I think even as a social change, a common factor driving the ones not affected by any social change also affects the ones affected socially. A good example, the male prisoners we have in different prisons. But I have a problem with it being a manifestation of the sin-nature. That we all have this nature is unarguably true. But for our sin nature to have control over whatever, there must be a motivation behind it. An example of what happens in Abraham Maslow's theory of Motivation. If the sin nature cannot manifest where there is no motivation, and the motivation comes from the benifit of the sin itself, one cannot fall prey to this form of socialization. Most I think social change fails here. Another problem is that, naturally our hormones will never yearn for the same sex. I think there is something great behind the motivation. Not just the painful pleasure derived from it. Something must have possessed every homosexual.
What I think is that homosexuality is purely a supernatural problem. Finding its origin from nature will be a herculian task. I believe for we to find its cause from nature there has to some natural signs spearheaded by an anatomical nay pathological change. And this is not evident.
Re: The Truth About Homos.exuality And Christianity by Kay17: 1:13pm On Sep 18, 2013
wiegraf:

These are the same people who will whine about evolution implying some races are superior (a patently false claim) therefore it is bad, yet here they are using nature as an excuse. Okay then, if they insist on nature, then well, some would say black man is inferior naturally, as we tend to live in conditions less 'ideal' than those of caucasians the last few hundred years or so. So, shouldn't we be 'cured' of our blackness as well, isn't it abnormal as well? Isn't nature about bettering our lot, and black man doesn't seem to be good at that, therefore aren't we unnatural as well? This all assumes homosexuality is intrinsically 'bad' mind you, another false axiom.

It's more complicated than that, but meh

Being intellectually deraved or stupid is not an immoral-ity. Same as a predator attacking a prey. Morals have nothing to do with Nature.
Re: The Truth About Homos.exuality And Christianity by Yooguyz: 6:13pm On Sep 18, 2013
okeyxyz: So bottom line, homos.exuality is not the sin itself, but is a fruit of the sin-nature/mindset.
LIES.
Re: The Truth About Homos.exuality And Christianity by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:29pm On Sep 18, 2013
You know you have created God in your own image, when you find that your God hates the same people that you do."— Lois Wilson.

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Re: The Truth About Homos.exuality And Christianity by okeyxyz(m): 4:21pm On Sep 19, 2013
wiegraf:

Obviously, very false. Do you happen to know, say, birds with foot fetishes? You're welcome to point them out. Perhaps maybe fish that prefers big booties? Or goats that like to whip and tie themselves before they engage in some action?

There are gay birds (exclusively/primarily gay as well), gay goats (10% of all male goats are primarily ghey), and ghey fish.

As for not natural, lol. That's nature bleeping up badly it would seem, no? Let's indulge you, anything other than missionary is not 'natural', as everything else is superfluous. So get rid of all of it, rather then focus on the acts that you do not fancy, bigot. And if you need a 'natural' explanation, look at bonobos for instance, they use it as a means of bonding, a social tool. They aren't the only ones, dolphins, elephants, the other apes, basically any species with mental capabilities similar to ours, do so. This is even ignoring the fact that humans are ridiculously atypical due to our mental capabilities, or do you see any other species browsing the internet consciously? So why you apply their standards to us bewilders me.

Your questions don't seem to have any bearings on my postings and judgments here, perhaps you mistake me for somebody else?? so you are not addressing(or you misunderstand) them. Your argument was that homosexuality is "ubiquitous" amongst other species and I agree(though it's still debated in the scientific community, but let's suppose it's true..), but your flaw is in justifying the correctness of homosexuality based on it's ubiquitousness, this is bad reasoning, borne more out of political appeal rather than a scientific one(being that you guys --atheists-- purport to be the defenders of science). I have already stated(and of which anybody whether a scientist or not can observe) nature is very flawed both in a spiritual and scientific context and that these arising mental and biological diseases/disorders/deviations and in this case--homosexuality, are the result of these flaws.

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Re: The Truth About Homos.exuality And Christianity by okeyxyz(m): 4:36pm On Sep 19, 2013
Kay 17: Upon reading the OP, Freewill jumped into my mind.
Freewill is the total self autonomy of control. Man equipped by freewill is in a position of power/authority. He can do and undo. Man can actively choose whether or not to follow the laws. The authority of all laws rests on their acceptance by the recipients.

NOTE: man through his freewill is sinless, because he can make and break moral laws, create and destroy such. Before man becomes a sinner, he must choose whether or not he wears the shame, must accept willingly the idea of sin. Hence sin is meaningless without acknowledgement.

The way you guys sing "free will", I can't help but laugh. "Free will" does not mean correct/right will. We know what correctness is by observation, questioning and efforts towards improvement. Yeah, we know you have free will, you can jump off a sky scraper if you want, but how is that a good idea? How does it benefit you?


2. It is lame for both (theists and atheists) to seek out moral basis from Nature! For atheists, it is implicitly accepting some form of external overarching purpose in Nature which governs man. It is a bad idea to behave as a plant.

No it is not lame. We are part of nature, No?? Nature is a principal means to observe and determine what purpose is, hence make we can tell when something goes wrong.
Re: The Truth About Homos.exuality And Christianity by Kay17: 8:41pm On Sep 19, 2013
There lies the strangeness of free will, moralities and "truths" are coloured by it since free will is neither restrained by any of moralities or "truths".

Same as God freely willed what is good and evil. God decided the moral characters of all actions, and treated them in that regard.

Man can likewise, with the strength of his free will reverse/upturn that morality/truth as he wishes.

2. Nature ought to reveal who we are not how we should act. If we were part of Nature, there wouldn't be the need to act a particular way, if the influence of Nature is unavoidable, inevitable.

I doubt if you'd support the vicious cannibalism that exists in the wild.
Re: The Truth About Homos.exuality And Christianity by wiegraf: 3:42am On Sep 20, 2013
okeyxyz:

Your questions don't seem to have any bearings on my postings and judgments here, perhaps you mistake me for somebody else?? so you are not addressing(or you misunderstand) them. Your argument was that homosexuality is "ubiquitous" amongst other species and I agree(though it's still debated in the scientific community, but let's suppose it's true..), but your flaw is in justifying the correctness of homosexuality based on it's ubiquitousness, this is bad reasoning, borne more out of political appeal rather than a scientific one(being that you guys --atheists-- purport to be the defenders of science). I have already stated(and of which anybody whether a scientist or not can observe) nature is very flawed both in a spiritual and scientific context and that these arising mental and biological diseases/disorders/deviations and in this case--homosexuality, are the result of these flaws.

No, those questions are for you. The bolded is not what I was doing

Localamos:
Natural inter.course is between a man and a woman. Any variance from that is paraphalia.

me:
Let's ignore that homosexual activity, including full intercourse, is ubiquitous in nature. We'll also ignore that primary/exclusive homosexuality has also been observed, for now..


The aim being to differentiate between paraphillia (fetishes, lekpa or big, feet, whips etc) and orientation (homo, hetero, bi, asexual). My argument was homosexuality is ubiquitous in nature, fetishes (or parahillia if you will) are not.


As for using nature the way you do to justify terming homosexuality as an aberration, it's folly. I only mention it when people bring it up, to point out they would still be wrong if they called it unnatural, despite it's inherent sillyness. Adding to what's in that post already;

why stop there? Like I've said elsewhere, black man has proven himself fairly useless at living in this world, why don't we go ahead and get rid of this aberration as well? Consider, we're a minority, there are more oyinbo and chinese around, and they evolved after us (implicitly better some would say, no?).

Also, I don't think we were meant to use computers, or do you see any other animals in nature using those?

On the xtian front, why do you go about labeling some of your god's creations aberrations anyways? Especially when they are perfectly happy with themselves and not bothering anyone, hmm?

etc etc

And again, other animals in nature use homosexuality as a social tool, all the other animals with fairly complex social structures and mental capabilities approaching ours use it, most prominent example being bonobos. But like I said, using nature as a template is pure folly else, again, toss out your pc.
Re: The Truth About Homos.exuality And Christianity by wiegraf: 3:43am On Sep 20, 2013
Finally, @localomos, it was freed. Here

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