@Davidylan: Olorun ku suru. If God have not set an appointed term for everyone, David, how many of us, will remain on the surface of the earth? Fear God and restrain yourself, from this type blatant disregard of the awesomeness of God. You think Allah, is powerless like His creations? Jesus (AS), obeyed his Lord and a proof of it, as an example of his reverence, is that he said the Will of God will be done. You, David, you have no power and you are this arrogant toward your Creator! Wow!

Hi @olabowale,

I've been quite busy with a lot and glad to see that you guys have progressed the discussions way ahead of what I anticipated. I'll settle down and read through and then see what I could help you guys come to understand.

For the meantime, what I have glanced through would only lead me to ask you guys to be honest and stop embarrassing your scholarship any further. There are so many dishonest assertions that I've seen from Muslims who have visited this thread - and I only chose to respond as a follow-up to your "Islamic Invasion".

Anyhow, enjoy for now.

olabowale:

Jesus (AS), obeyed his Lord and a proof of it, as an example of his reverence, is that he said the Will of God will be done. You, David, you have no power and you are this arrogant toward your Creator! Wow!

@olabowale,

I think it would have served you a great help if you Muslims learn to not try to discredit Christianity based on the statements of the Qur'an. For one, not many Muslims are intelligent enough to sanely discuss issues - and it has become stale news now to notice that duplicity is the hallmark of Muslim apologetics. If you learn to understand that Muhammad's statements do not serve as the yardstick for Biblical truths, the better it would be for you.

Cheers.

@ifyalways,

ifyalways:

this forum is supposed to be for christaians alone.it was meant to be a place where christians discuss what they have learnt in their varoius churches and for the edification of us all.ofcoures a non christain can still come in and have a peep if he or she wishes.

it has never been intended to be an avenue for debate.we should perharps get another forum for our debates.

In view of the present Islamic Invasion, your post is a sensible one; and although they did so deliberately, we'll see how best to manage the situation.

Cheers and many blessings.

@olabowale and babs787,

I decided that it would be grand to take our discussions to another thread so we could all dialogue neatly. You could click on this link to take you there.

Cheers.

olabowale:

@Davidylan: Olorun ku suru. If God have not set an appointed term for everyone, David, how many of us, will remain on the surface of the earth? Fear God and restrain yourself, from this type blatant disregard of the awesomeness of God. You think Allah, is powerless like His creations?

It is not just a thought but a fact. Allah has NO powers over me. The bible says I shall tread upon scorpions and adders and they shall not harm me. The bible says that He will bruise the head of the serpent (allah's master) under my feet!
If allah was powerful why does he need his "creations" foaming in the mouth and chanting days of rage anytime cartoons of his "prophet" are made?

olabowale:

Jesus (AS), obeyed his Lord and a proof of it, as an example of his reverence, is that he said the Will of God will be done. You, David, you have no power and you are this arrogant toward your Creator! Wow!

lol you expect me to take the mere and unreliable words of mohammed as gospel truth? Jesus Christ is GOD ALMIGHTY! HE shows NO reverence to that idol illah!
I am not arrogant to my CREATOR . . . for I know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His suffering.
Illah did NOT create anything! Not even you.

somze:

Pilgrim.1
You are blessed!

Praise the Lord!

Praise the Lord from the heavens!
Praise him from the skies!
2 Praise him, all his angels!
Praise him, all the armies of heaven!
3 Praise him, sun and moon!
Praise him, all you twinkling stars!
4 Praise him, skies above!
Praise him, vapors high above the clouds!
5 Let every created thing give praise to the Lord,
for he issued his command, and they came into being.
6 He set them in place forever and ever.
His decree will never be revoked.

7 Praise the Lord from the earth,
you creatures of the ocean depths,
8 fire and hail, snow and clouds,[a]
wind and weather that obey him,
9 mountains and all hills,
fruit trees and all cedars,
10 wild animals and all livestock,
small scurrying animals and birds,
11 kings of the earth and all people,
rulers and judges of the earth,
12 young men and young women,
old men and children.

13 Let them all praise the name of the Lord.
For his name is very great;
his glory towers over the earth and heaven!
14 He has made his people strong,
honoring his faithful ones—
the people of Israel who are close to him.

Praise the Lord!

@topic
God created everything for His glory and praise

@somze,

Thank you so dearly. That Psalm was timely and a blessing to me the very day you posted it. God bless you mightily and enrich your experiences of His grace this new month November!

John 14 verse 15: (Jesus promise of the Holy spirit); If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 14 verse 26; But the counselor, The Holy spirit, whom the father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everyrhing I have said to you.

These two verses above are from the New International version of the Holy Bible: My questions to the learned people of christianity are many but I will pose just a few regarding the above:

1) What command of Jesus were/are the lovers of Jesus supposed to obey?
2) What has the Holy spirit, also known as the counselor who the Father (I assume God Almighty is meant here), will send, taught any in all the over 2000 years of christendom?
We must take into account that the Holy spirit is to teach and will remind everything that Jesus have said to his desciples to carry on to the future generations to come. If the holy spirit has not came, I understand the conditions of the christians as to the matter of adultery and fornication and other ills which may include alcoholism, usury, etc. However if the holy spirit had come, what did the holy spirit say about adultery, fornication, usury, and others?

We must never forget that to teach is an addition to the remind, which Jesus mentioned in the verse. It seems to me, unless it can be explained otherwise that the teach part of the function of this Holy spirit, will be addition to what Jesus had already informed his community, in his mission.

Maybe we need to ask our pastors and leaders of the church about the teach and the remind of the Holy spirit.

pilgrim.1:

@topic
God created everything for His glory and praise

@somze,

Thank you so dearly. That Psalm was timely and a blessing to me the very day you posted it. God bless you mightily and enrich your experiences of His grace this new month November!

Have a beautiful month, your discourse on issues are always a blessing

@pilgrim

Oya questions for you please

babs787:

@pilgrim

Oya questions for you please

Sorry, Babs - time up! I don't play games with you guys. I ahve entertained both of you patiently; but until you address the two simple questions I left you in the new thread, you don't interest me in the least with your duplicity.

If you care to be gentlemen, I'll oblige you answers - I have always done so.

Shallom.

@olabowale,

This is the reason why I stated that your attitude simple put you far below my respects. I had offered that you guys come over to the new thread so we don't distract the purpose of this one - but you keep up the same attitude that only confirms how mentally low you could be.

I left you both just two questions - and you have searched in vain for answers and could not be gentlemen enough to admit that you honestly could not find any. Instead you chase your Arabian wind up here to keep up the same no-brainer attitude you've always put up, and then hope to distract me away from the standing issues presented to you! Your journey far - such Islamic games have never worked on me, sorry!

Cheers.

@pilgrim

Sorry, Babs - time up! I don't play games with you guys. I ahve entertained both of you patiently; but until you address the two simple questions I left you in the new thread, you don't interest me in the least with your duplicity.

It seems that your shakara don dey reduce since you were offered questions that seemed too much for and you resorted to beating about rthe bush looking for lame excuse.

This is a link to where I provided answers to your questions and I noticed that you have replied and I will be there after this time out but in the mean time, you may religiously answer those questions, I think say dem no dey too hard

If you care to be gentlemen, I'll oblige you answers - I have always done so.

What else do you expect from someone that has nothing to offer

Shallom.

This is the reason why I stated that your attitude simple put you far below my respects. I had offered that you guys come over to the new thread so we don't distract the purpose of this one - but you keep up the same attitude that only confirms how mentally low you could be.

Hey dont bring that one here, you should be asking yourself for the person that has been littering threads with same issue. You can still attend the questions if you are so sure of yourself and that you havent be pretending.

I left you both just two questions - and you have searched in vain for answers and could not be gentlemen enough to admit that you honestly could not find any. Instead you chase your Arabian wind up here to keep up the same no-brainer attitude you've always put up, and then hope to distract me away from the standing issues presented to you! Your journey far - such Islamic games have never worked on me, sorry!

Have you been to the threads you asked those questions? If you havent,. kindly go there and read my response to your questions but at the same do justice to the questions asked you. No maradona game here please



Salam

babs quit all this your gimmicks

WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?
Has Muhammad been in existence since the creation of heaven and earth?

@somze

babs quit all this your gimmicks

WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?
Has Muhammad been in existence since the creation of heaven and earth?

If you have been following the thread, you would have read where your sister tried putting holy spirit in place of another comforter and I told her that the holy spirit cannot be another comforter that the holy spirit has been in existence but I learnt that you dont read posts before making your own contribution. You may go to the posts and read for yourself. The verses cannot be for holy spirit because 'another' can never be holy spirit. HGoly spirit can never replaces human spirit and please does it speak or inspire and when you provide answer, I will give you greek meaning of the words

I have been following the topic clearly and she rightly said it referred to the Holy Spirit as through out John you find him called by the words - comforter or counsellor - among others.

Now please quote through your koran and hadith where
[list]
[li]WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?[/li]
[li]Has Muhammad been in existence since the creation of heaven and earth?[/li]
[/list]

@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrim


It seems that your shakara don dey reduce since you were offered questions that seemed too much for and you resorted to beating about rthe bush looking for lame excuse.

This is a link to where I provided answers to your questions and I noticed that you have replied and I will be there after this time out but in the mean time, you may religiously answer those questions, I think say them no dey too hard

What else do you expect from someone that has nothing to offer


Hey don't bring that one here, you should be asking yourself for the person that has been littering threads with same issue. You can still attend the questions if you are so sure of yourself and that you havent be pretending.

Have you been to the threads you asked those questions? If you havent,. kindly go there and read my response to your questions but at the same do justice to the questions asked you. No maradona game here please

Salam

Go and see your FRAUD exposed in the new thread. Quick access by clicking on the following:

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642155)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642174)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642188)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642263)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642295)

@olabowale,

olabowale:

John 14 verse 15: (Jesus promise of the Holy spirit); If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 14 verse 26; But the counselor, The Holy spirit, whom the father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everyrhing I have said to you.

These two verses above are from the New International version of the Holy Bible: My questions to the learned people of christianity are many but I will pose just a few regarding the above:

1) What command of Jesus were/are the lovers of Jesus supposed to obey?
2) What has the Holy spirit, also known as the counselor who the Father (I assume God Almighty is meant here), will send, taught any in all the over 2000 years of christendom?
We must take into account that the Holy spirit is to teach and will remind everything that Jesus have said to his desciples to carry on to the future generations to come. If the holy spirit has not came, I understand the conditions of the christians as to the matter of adultery and fornication and other ills which may include alcoholism, usury, etc. However if the holy spirit had come, what did the holy spirit say about adultery, fornication, usury, and others?

We must never forget that to teach is an addition to the remind, which Jesus mentioned in the verse. It seems to me, unless it can be explained otherwise that the teach part of the function of this Holy spirit, will be addition to what Jesus had already informed his community, in his mission.

Maybe we need to ask our pastors and leaders of the church about the teach and the remind of the Holy spirit.

I was simply not going to reply to this post. But the joke is OVER, and you can YIM babs787 and celebrate the FRAUD. Quick access by clicking the following:

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642155)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642174)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642188)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642263)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642295)

@somze,

Lol. . .

somze:

I have been following the topic clearly and she rightly said it referred to the Holy Spirit as through out John you find him called by the words - comforter or counsellor - among others.

Now please quote through your koran and hadith where
[list]
[li]WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?[/li]
[li]Has Muhammad been in existence since the creation of heaven and earth?[/li]
[/list]

When you ask simple questions and Muslims never reply them, it is simply telling you ONLY one thing: Islam is a huge FRAUD that seeks to justify Muhammad's career by pretending he is in the Bible. That is why you see all the illiterate questions and daft repostes from their so-called apologists.

I warned him (babs787) and reminded the other (olabowale) - I can be very patient and will always seek to answer questions: which I have done many times. But the moment they repeatedly splurge their duplicity near pilgrim.1, they will be sorry!

Shallom.

Blessing my sister, I was shocked to see Babs argue the Holy Spirit is now Mohammed.

What a fraud!

Peace dear

@Somze: From your Bible you will find in 1 John 4 verse 1, that Spirit is another word for Prophet. In 2 Peter 2 verse 1,Teacher is also used for Prophet. The function of a prophet, which is a spirit (Spiritual leader), therefore is to teach. This qualifies Muhammad as a spirit, the same as every Prophet before him, eg, Jesus son of Mary, Moses, to Just name a few.

We should examine the existence of Jesus and the existence of God, prior to the creation of heavens and earth. Before the creation of these two, the heavens and the earth, were Jesus and God in existence and independently at that? If you say that Jesus also existed and was independent of God at this stage, prior to the creations of heaven and earth, we then need to examine which one of them, was in existence first; God or Jesus?

If you say it is God, then it means that at one time, Jesus was not in existence and God was. At this time, was God powerless and unable to do all things, therefore He needed Jesus? Did God create Jesus then, a feat that would be more difficult, according to your supposition, since you said that God needed Jesus to have complete power, then God could not do the less difficult task of creating the rest of creation! You will find that your mind and soul will agree with God being in existence first and had and continues to have complete power and control over all things. That includes power over Jesus, before Jesus came into spiritual existence, before he came to physical existence and after Jesus was lifted up. The present condition of Jesus is only known to his Creator God Almighty, Who has power all things.

In the contrary, if you say that Jesus was in existence before God Almighty, what you are saying therefore is that Jesus created God! That will be a big lie! Since God can not die, and not subjected to anything that man is subjected to, a few of which Jesus was subjected to, like hunger, thirst, tiredness, sleep, temptation of any kind and the worst kind is that of satan, then you will have to agree that God is the Master of Jesus.

So in conclusion, since God created Adam and took the souls of all his children from his body, we all existed in the spiritual world, before father Abraham existed on earth, in Ur, Iraq's Mesopotania civilization, in body and soul Please note that the souls of all mankind, were once in the spiritual form before it is manifested into the body and soul combination on this earth. You will notice that in the Bible, there was never a time Jesus said that he existed physically before father Abraham, and definately not before granddaddy Adam!

The word of God was and still complete, regardless of jesus or even the Angels of God. We all remember that God's angel said to mary, the mother of Jesus regarding the birth of jesus that when God decrees a matter He God but 'say' (His word as in command that is audible that puts the mission to a motion towards accomplishment), BE and it IS!

olabowale:

@Somze: From your Bible you will find in 1 John 4 verse 1, that Spirit is another word for Prophet. In 2 Peter 2 verse 1,Teacher is also used for Prophet. The function of a prophet, which is a spirit (Spiritual leader), therefore is to teach. This qualifies Muhammad as a spirit, the same as every Prophet before him, eg, Jesus son of Mary, Moses, to Just name a few.

@olabowale,

Please desist from this mindless FRAUD! You're not going to deceive any Christian with that fabricated lie; and instead you will continue to lose souls from Islam to Christianity - just as you confirmed early!!

I have dealt with the issue of 1 John 4:1, and you can apply the same to whatever you tried to dribble for 2 peter 2:1 - Muhammad is not there, will never be there, has not been there, and will never be in any verse of the Bible!

You're trying to invade this thread surreptiously while avoiding the thread where you and babs787 have been put on spotlight for your FRAUD. Go back there, take a peep - and then call each other long-distance (the Masjid will foot the phone bill). . . and weep over the duplicity of your cowardise!

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642155)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642174)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642188)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642263)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1642295)

Olabowale
As pilgrim.1 has pointed out, you are in error there. In the John 14:16 every sincere person will know clearly the Holy Spirit was being referred to, check in the 26th verse you quoted that was in turn highlighted by pilgrim.1

Meanwhile
[list]
[li]WHERE did ALLAH ever refer to Muhammad as "THE SPIRIT"?[/li]
[li]Has Muhammad been in existence since the creation of heaven and earth?[/li]
[/list]

It's a pity that 'they' interpret the Bible just as they do to their quran! what a Pity. . . Not knowing that it takes a Spiritual man to understand the things of God. For the Spirit that dwells within us is not the same as theirs, so . . the contradiction remains. They've chosen not to go through the Door- JESUS CHRIST hence, they remain blind as ever before. Pity such a one!

OlowoTee:

It's a pity that 'they' interpret the Bible just as they do to their quran! what a Pity. . . Not knowing that it takes a Spiritual man to understand the things of God.

This is HOW it works with them:

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-84252.256.html#msg1642932)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-84252.256.html#msg1642936)

Shallom.

@pilgrims, somze and Olwotee


Please go the link which she has been crying about and read my response

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.32.html

went to bible study last night.
read from matt 5 from 1 to 13.
WE prayed and asked God for the following things:
pure and contrite heart.
to forgive and be always forgiven.
grace for humilty.
patience for all trials and temptations.
Gods grace to run the race and Get the crown of everlasting life.

@ Somze: If you said it was referring to a spirit, which has no body, verse 26 of John 14, that is, please tell me when did this holy spirit came to fulfill Jesus' promise of it? Is that promise limited to a particular time and place? Is that holy spirit fulfilment still current in this generation of christendom? If all your answers are affirmatives, then I ask you, as I have asked, what new thing that jesus, the master himself, did not teach before he was raised up, and the Holy spirit has taught? Please know know that just this part, the 'teach' function of the holy spirit, is very essential along with the reminder part of what Jesus have left behind for the Christians.

So has the holy spirit spoken about Alcoholism/drinking and things of intostication, adultery/fornication, ususry, oppression, how to deal with family matters, (relationship between spouses, parents and children, siblings and extended family and naighbors, etc)? What about social and private lives? Business dealings, eg contracts and protections of the weak in the societies against oppressors and the powerfuls, who may be unjust? Foods and drinks, cleaningness and purifications of body and soul?

Please Somze, know that if the holy spirit has not curbed the unfettered behaviours of the people who call themselves born again, and am being generous because, this group thinks that they have the holy spirit in them, then you will know that the holy spirit is supoosed to be body and soul, so that he can teach (a teacher) and remind (a reminder). Nothing less.

babs787:

@pilgrims, somze and Olwotee


Please go the link which she has been crying about and read my response

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.32.html

Yep - I've already been there to bleach you once again!!

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1643198)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1643234)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1643296)

olabowale:

@ Somze: If you said it was referring to a spirit, which has no body, verse 26 of John 14, that is, please tell me when did this holy spirit came to fulfill Jesus' promise of it?

(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1643198)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1643234)
(https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-90174.64.html#msg1643296)

olabowale:

Please Somze, know that if the holy spirit has not curbed the unfettered behaviours of the people who call themselves born again, and am being generous because, this group thinks that they have the holy spirit in them, then you will know that the holy spirit is supoosed to be body and soul, so that he can teach (a teacher) and remind (a reminder). Nothing less.

Muhammad's teaching did not "curb" anything you mentioned there. Period.

@pilgrims


You may deny from now till tomorrow, you yourself know the truth but you are supressing same because of pride and arrogance.

Let us first go into what led to Muhammad being the Holy spirit.

I never said Muhammad is the holy spirit but you have been the one trying to interprete the verse to be referring to Holy spirit. If you are that confused because of the 'spirit' used there, please if the verse is referring to same

1. Has the holy spirit not been in existence? If it has been, expecting another spirit would be a blatant lie and how many spirits would we be having altogether?

2. What new things has it been telling regarding prostitution, fornication etc

3. What is the position of 'another' in that context.

4. Is jesus a comforter or not?