Logical:

According to the Qur'an, hadith means 'story', 'news', 'report' or 'narration' [/b]and it is used in the Qur'an a number of times in these senses. In practice, the word hadith, to most people calling themselves Muslim, means the [b]reported [/b]sayings and practices of the Prophet. The operative word here is[b] 'reported'. The Hadith literature was collected by word of mouth, about 250 years after the death of the Prophet. The Hadiths – as the Hadith literature is commonly called – can be classified roughly in four categories:

1. What the Prophet said.

2. What the Prophet did.

3. What the Prophet silently approved of, in others.

4. Hadiths which give descriptions of what the Prophet was like.

In a more precise way, A historical account of, how it was like, during the prophet's time.

It helps if put in right context with the chain of narrations that support a specific report, in giving us the glimpse of the nature and enviroment, besides how the life of the first muslims was like, and hence sometimes can be used in making decisions based on the contextual refrences.

Much of Islam will remain mere abstract concepts without Hadith. Muslims would never know how to pray, fast, pay zakah, or make pilgrimage without the illustration found in Hadith, for these acts of worship remain as abstract imperatives in the Qur’an. So I think that answers your question.

TayoD:

Logical,

Can you provide us with the source of the information that Muhammad married an 8 year old girl? And why is that source now suspect? What makes these other sources you quoted more acceptable than the one that gave the world the age of 8?
I hope we won't get a new information now telling us Muhammad's first wife was not actually decades older than he was.

davidylan:

@ logical
If that is true then what is the significance of the quran since it is just a collection of "mere abstract texts"?
why would it be appropriate to use the hadith in some situations e.g prayer and fasting and then innapropriate to quote it as a reliable source when it comes to the "deeds" of the prophet e.g his marriage?

@TayoD
Well maybe you might want to direct that question to the person that started the accusation?
All sources of the hadith are suspects, thats where for every hadith there must be a check on its chain of narrations.

TayoD:

As an extension, you owe it to yourself also to discover the Gospels that Muhammad validated in the Qu'ran. The process is very simple. Just find the Bibles and the manuscripts that constituted what was known as the Bible during Muhammad's days. Compare them to the Bible of today and see if any corroborates Muhammad's claims as laid out in the Qu'ran.

davidylan:

thanks logical,

u just helped me make up my mind. If there was ever any doubt at all it is now cleared, i for one do not want to be a part of a religion were "much of it" is mere abstract terms, "all hadith" is questionable and depends on a "chain of narration" for proof of validity and clearly based niot really on what "god" says but on the "rich traditions" and "how it was done by the prophet"!

TayoD:

@Logical,

From my understanding, the Qu'ran wasn't written down by Muhammad because he was an illiterate. If that is so, I assume that his recitations must have been recorded by the very same people around him who wrote down the 'Hadiths".

All I can say is huuuuuuuuuuuuh?

@TayoD , Have you validated the bible? What acceptable human standards did you use to validate it? I for one, have validated many Islamic preachings using the human standard of logic, a gift of God to man.

davidylan:

@ logical
Well you haven't made much sense in most of your disjointed posts.
Sorry, that's where the line is drawn between the bible and the quran. Your quran NEEDS to be validated by using "human standard of logic" which you laughably pass off as a "gift of God to man". Sorry, even traditionalists and hindus can use "human standard of logic" to validate their own practices, it does not make islam any different.

@Davidlyan
The hadith is not the basis of Islamic belief, do you really understand the difference between tradition and doctrine?

When I say much of islam, I was reffering to the tenets of islams, otherwise known as pillars (The profession of faith in Allah , salat, zakat, ramadhan, hajj) maybe that is more explanatory, because its more of practice not necessarily a doctrine, and therefore requires a traditional documentation to guide in achieving that particular practice properly.

davidylan:

@ logical

I perfectly understand the difference between "traditions" and "doctrines". Islam is a religion based on the traditions of men and here is what the bible has to say:

Mark 7:8
For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Logical:

Interesting didn't know that, maybe you might want to quote one of those tradionalists or hindus doctrine that is quiet logical, because I havent come across any, and hence I don't agree. Would really appreciate it.

davidylan:

You can't come across what you have not researched. Any rational human being can rationalise anything on the earth. The power of logic is not the sole preserve of islam. With the numerous contradictions in the quran, it is amazing some still find it "logical" for a 50 yr old marrying a 6 yr old does not in any way connote rational logic.

Logical:

Hmm, the bible says, the bible says. Islam is a religion based on tradition, rather I would say that, Islam is a tradition of itself not a tradition of man.

Misinterpretations can turn into the tradition of man, but untill then , it remains the tradition of itself. So let me guess you are not a catholic?

Logical:

There you go again accusing without a proof? This is more the reason why, I wanted to stop arguing with you, because it is a total waste of time. You keep accusing and accusing, without any proof. And you claim to stand for the truth?

Logical:

I have learnt something by reading all of your posts in the religion section, and that thing is, I am better of not arguing with you . This is because from what I have discovered, you don't reason beyond what you have been taught or fed with. You don't see beyond the circle of quoting and quoting what the bible says, even though you perfectly know, that the bible is only approved by christians as a valid document.

What are you trying to achieve? Let me guess , are you trying to push Christianity down my throat , I hope not

Logical:

You know what, we are just going in a cycle, and honestly I do think I am better off letting you think whatever you want to think, because I have discovered that you don't want to reason beyond what you have made yourself to believe.

Hence I am ending this debate, when you are ready to provide tangible proofs to whatever you accuse Islam of, Do let me know. I would be glad to continue, until then, have a nice day.

davidylan:

As usual, you take the cowards way out because you have exhausted your shallow knowledge.

davidylan:

Go and listen more at friday prayers and come back.

Logical:

Exactly Because from your understanding cowards are those who choose to argue based on facts laid down, if that is so I agree to your definition of cowardice.

Besides you don't need to be provocative at your ending to get your points across.

Logical:

It helps if put in right context with the chain of narrations that support a specific report, in giving us the glimpse of the nature and enviroment, besides how the life of the first muslims was like, and hence sometimes can be used in making  decisions based on the contextual refrences.

Much of Islam will remain mere abstract concepts without Hadith. Muslims would never know how to pray, fast, pay zakah, or make pilgrimage without the illustration found in Hadith, for these acts of worship remain as abstract imperatives in the Qur’an. So I think that answers your question.

4get_me:

What really drives people into such kinds of acts against their own fellows - especially in this age?  It's a bit worrisome that we have more and more of these shootings by some Muslims at other Muslims for harmlessly social activities. One week it was the shooting an Iraqi coach and two tennis players team for wearing shorts; and we've not quite recovered from that before we get to digest another sad story about people being killed for just watching a football match?

Criminal as these spate of shootings are, could there be any possible underlying religious ideology behind it? I was browsing the news online and came across this not-so-smiley report above the harrassments of Muslims by their fellow Muslims in Iraq. As the story goes, it seems that some people just take it upon themselves to do and undo whatever they feel like, in the name of a religious attachment

What you have said here is akin to saying, why did pope urban order the church to kill muslims and other christians in the name of fighting a religious war? Or why would Hitler kill the Jews, or why would Stalin inspite of confessing christianity kill over 30 million Russians who confessed christianity and other persuasions because they opposed his  beliefs? Are all these actions sanctioned by a religious ideology?

If you think the answer to the questions above are obvious, you should be able to apply it to the muslim situation as well

ajia23:

If you think the answer to the questions above are obvious, you should be able to apply it to the muslim situation as well

Logical:

You know what, we are just going in a cycle, and honestly I do think I am better off letting you think whatever you want to think, because I have discovered that you don't want to reason beyond what you have made yourself to believe.

Hence I am ending this debate, when you are ready to provide tangible proofs to whatever you accuse Islam of, Do let me know. I would be glad to continue, until then, have a nice day.

belloti:

I really can't figure why it took you so long to realise this. Anyway, i am happy you finally got fed up with the useless dilly dallying. This is not about providing explanations, its basically crusaders antics vainly trying to portray Islam in bad lights. We are muslims and we don't care how bad you feel about that. Let everyone paddle his own canoe and when we finally die one day we all answer to the Lord Almighty.