The Honorable Elijah Muhammad teaches us that of all the things that the black man, or any man for that matter, can study history is the best qualified to reward all research. You have to have a knowledge of history no matter what you are going to do; anything that you undertake you have to have a knowledge of history in order to be successful in it. The thing that has made the so-called Negro in America fail, more than any other thing, is your, my, lack of knowledge concerning history. We know less about history than anything else. There are black people in America who have mastered the mathematical sciences, have become professors and experts in physics, are able to toss sputniks out there in the atmosphere, out in space. They are masters in that field. We have black men who have mastered the field of medicine, we have black men who have mastered other fields, but very seldom do we have black men in America who have mastered the knowledge of the history of the black man himself. we have among our people those who are experts in every field, but seldom can you find one among us who is an expert on the history of the black man. And because of his lack of knowledge concerning the history of the black man, no matter how much he excels in the other sciences, he's always confined, he's always relegated to the same low rung of the ladder that the dumbest of our people are relegated to. And all of this stems form his lack of knowledge concerning history. What made Dr. George Washington Carver a Negro scientist instead of a scientist? What made Paul Robeson a Negro actor instead of an actor? What made, or makes, Ralph Bunche a Negro statesman instead of a statesman? The only difference between Bunche and Carver and these others I just mentioned is they don't know the history of the black man. Bunche is an expert, an international politician, but he doesn't know himself, he doesn't know the history of the black people. He can be sent all over the world by America to solve problems for America, or to solve problems for other nations, but he can't solve problems for his own people in this country. Why? What is it that ties our people up in this way? The Honorable Elijah Muhammad says that it boils down to just one word -- history.

http://www.malcolm-x.org/speeches/spc_12__62.htm

http://pervmuhammad.proboards51.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=73


What if a Muslim was born gay, bi, or lesbain?
I mean you are BORN gay. You just can't change your sexuality. For example, I was born deaf and can't change who I am. So do gay people. It is haram to be gay but there were born like that and couldn't change themselves.

Why is it haram for people to be gay when there were BORN gay? They can't change who they are.

I am not Musl!m but I can tell you this much - One is not born gay anymore than one is born to be a Corporate CEO. The influences of our surroundings, the way we are raised in addition to the CHOICES we make in life determine what we will be, bottom line. Just like college courses, one may enter going for a certain "major" but after being in it for a while, opt for a different "major".

islamway:

http://pervmuhammad.proboards51.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=73


What if a Muslim was born gay, bi, or lesbain?
I mean you are BORN gay. You just can't change your sexuality. For example, I was born deaf and can't change who I am. So do gay people. It is haram to be gay but there were born like that and couldn't change themselves.

Why is it haram for people to be gay when there were BORN gay? They can't change who they are.

Some can also claim to be born rapists. This your argument is lame!

imhotep:

Some can also claim to be born rapists.

@Islamway:

What if a Muslim was born gay, bi, or lesbain?
I mean you are BORN gay. You just can't change your sexuality. For example, I was born deaf and can't change who I am. So do gay people. It is haram to be gay but there were born like that and couldn't change themselves.

Why is it haram for people to be gay when there were BORN gay? They can't change who they are.

Brother, no one is born gay, or bi or lesbian. Each is a lifestyle of choice. Just because a man is afeminate does not mean that he must be guy. So are the women who are tomboyish will not translate to being lesbian, etc. To be deaf is a desease caused by nature in a degeneration of some sort. I am sure that you wish that you are not deaf. And those who are not deaf will not wish to be deaf.

The case of gender sexual inconformity is different. If you suffer from it, it does not mean that you should not correct the condition. It is not a must that a gay guy or lesbian gal or bi person must have sex with the gender that is morally forbidden them. I am aman who loves party and extreme socializing. Islam preach against both. So I do not indulge in any of them, even though I have great appetite for them.

If I were to have a gay tendency, I will repress that part of me. Just like even as i repress that huge appetite in me for all the time fun. There is are things that you forgo for the pleasure of God. Sexual anomaly is one of them. Excessive sexual interest that will lead to illicitness of it is one of them. Extravegancy is one of them. All kinda of evils are in this category.

Every action is permitted except what is forbidden. Homosexuality and its varied forms are forbidden. Whoever have homosexual tendency should be conscious of it and never to act upon it.

olabowale:

@Islamway:
Brother, no one is born gay, or bi or lesbian. Each is a lifestyle of choice. Just because a man is afeminate does not mean that he must be guy. So are the women who are tomboyish will not translate to being lesbian, etc. To be deaf is a desease caused by nature in a degeneration of some sort. I am sure that you wish that you are not deaf. And those who are not deaf will not wish to be deaf.

The case of gender sexual inconformity is different. If you suffer from it, it does not mean that you should not correct the condition. It is not a must that a gay guy or lesbian girl or bi person must have sex with the gender that is morally forbidden them. I am aman who loves party and extreme socializing. Islam preach against both. So I do not indulge in any of them, even though I have great appetite for them.

If I were to have a gay tendency, I will repress that part of me. Just like even as i repress that huge appetite in me for all the time fun. There is are things that you forgo for the pleasure of God. Sexual anomaly is one of them. Excessive sexual interest that will lead to illicitness of it is one of them. Extravegancy is one of them. All kind of of evils are in this category.

Every action is permitted except what is forbidden. Homosexuality and its varied forms are forbidden. Whoever have homosexual tendency should be conscious of it and never to act upon it.

Gbam !

@Islamway

Are you interested in a sincere and honest debate in order to enlighten you on what you are ignorant of with regards to my noble prophet and his marriage to Aisha?

I agree with the poster who said no one is born gay. This has always been my stand on it, I think one of the most ridiculous things I have heard is someone comparing being gay to being black. Sadly, here in the US, some try to use it in their fight for Gay rights. God save whoever comes at me with such a statement.

Again, it is a choice that you make, If society permits it, then it becomes more widespread simply because it is acceptable. It is something that is disliked by our Creator and that is our stand on it.

If we begin to term stealing, Kleptomaniac, (as we already do) a diagnosis can be made as well as an argument for it which will increase the number of petty thieves in the society.
@islamway
No need for your post and language, seriously, Totally uncalled for.

@Islamway:

Remember Muhammad was 53
aisha was 9

It seems to me that Islamway is strong enough to discuss this topic. I will like to ask you, Sir, Islamway, if you could tell us when Aisha was born. This very answer will help believe that you know when she was 9 years old. Please use the Islamic calender. This will bring the whole issue of pre Madina era of islam to be the years before Hijra. When was she married to the prophet?

Now then, how old was Aisha before her father, vis a vis herself and the whole household of her father became Muslims? Was she born before the very first revelation of AlQur'an, which was the marking of when Muhammad (AS) became a prophet? If she was born, how old was she before the beginning of prophethood? If she was not born, when was she born in the years that Islam had began? If you do not know, then how do you come about your conclusion about the age 9 at marriage? Do you know what year in Islam she was 9 years old? What city, Makka or Madina could have been the city where she turned 9? What calender are you using to calculate her age: The gregorian or the mon calender of 12 moon months?

Considering that she was engaged to be married to somebody else before her father and her household became muslims, was she born and alive at this time of engagement? How old was she when this engagement was broken off? Could she have been engaged to be married, unless she was already born, the only way to determine that she was a female, considering that there was no was to determine the sex of an unborn, up to that time? Please help me in our mutual quest to get to the bottom. the truth of it all. Her engagement and marriage to the prophet were post this engagement of hers to somebody else, and the death of Khadijah, the only wife of the prophet while she was alive.

Very interestingly, is it the age differences between a man and his wife that makes him a "pedophile or what exactly?" Could it be the age of the wife? Take for example of the first case. If a woman is 18, and she is married to a 68 years old man. Could this be considered a case of pedophilia? What if she is 9 and the husband is 8, or 9, or 10? Will the case of pedophilia still occur? Who is the pedophile between the husband and wife, when the husband is 8 or 9? By the way what is the age of maturity among mankind? Considering the Jews consider 13 to be that age, the age of Bermitva. What is the age of maturity with the pigmise of Congo, or the bushman of south african region or the Aborigine of Australia? What is the age of maturity of the native south americans or the indigenous of Brazil/other native people?

What about the African modern people; Say Enugu people versus village people of igboland? The Lagos people versus village people in yorubaland? Kano city elites versus the village people of Arewaland? Duala city people in cameroon versus village people of that country?

Now you will really have to be strong enough to carry the water for your group in this case. I will hope that you will not become a jellyfish, without a backbone. I wish you well. I summit to you that Aisha (RA) was not less than 17 years before the Hijra to Madina. And there was no consumation of marriage 2 years after that. She could not be less than 19! Even in America, a woman can get married with the consent of the parents prior to being 18! And yet there is not uniform age for maturity in America. It goes even as low as 15 or less in some states!

A pedophile is a psychologically ill person who is sexually attracted to prepubescent children. Is homosexuality really a choice? If you're heterosexual, can you actually imagine choosing to have any form of sexual contact (touching or otherwise) with one of the same sex?

Babs

Are you  interested in a sincere and honest debate in order to enlighten you on what you are ignorant of with regards to my noble prophet and his marriage to Aisha?

Well with regard to Muhammad and Aisha, there is really nothing to debate.

Muhammad was 53 and Aisha was 9. Now most of the civilized world will agree that that info makes Muhammad a perverted child predator who should be

1) donating a sample of DNA to the Perv Bank

2) Doing about 20 years of hard labor or even better get the death penalty.

Instead about 1.1 billion people have been brainwashed into thinking that he was something special. You should be ashamed to propogate such a religion.

woman is 18, and she is married to a 68 years old man.

At 18 a woman is most certainly an ADULT. Now if she then choses a man of 68 then obviously other factors are at play.

1) She is stupid/deperate/ugly/or just simply looking for a Daddy figure.

2) He is sexually as good as when he was 20 (unlikely)/takes overdoses of Viagra/or just plain rich and looking for Nicole Smith

3) Any combination of the above.

@Islamway:
I asked you many questions in my entry above, for your response. All you have done is to simply ignore all of them and came up with a lazy, rather uninformed man's response!

If I say you are a 20 year old man, then, I must have been able to use some land mark events to come to that conclusion. In the case of Aisha, (RA), I asked you if you know he was engaged to be married to a man before his father and therefore, her, became a muslim? Whats your answer, Islamway?

I aslso ask you how old was she when her father became a muslim?

I finally asked you as a lead up question to my probable true age of this mother of believers, that if you know how old is islam which started in Makka, when her father became Muslm?

Islamway, all you have done is do what a person who is uninformed does. I will not let you down easy. If you are bold enough to make a blanket statement, then you should be able to be bold enough to defend it by providing answers to questions that are important to the issue under observation.

Are you just playing the Christian game of talking off cuffs without truly weighing the statement through, whether it is correct or not?

I will wait for your reply. There are no need for interpretation of her age. Its not a Bible information. Its very clear; Tell me when was she born? If she was engaged to be married before her father became a muslim, then she must have been alive, for the arabs would not have known that she was a girl, while still unborn. Hence she must have been delivered before she became engaged to a man, prior to her father reverting to Islam. This revertion to Islam, is the only and very reason the marriage proposal was broken off.

he ball is in your court, Islamway! You can ask your conpatriots, in Christianity to help you, in establishing the facts here.

@Islamway

Like I told you, be bold for a discusion and not ferreting lies without being able to prove it. If you are ready for a sincere debate, please signify.