They both got theirselves killed.

Billyonaire: The Question I keep asking myself is; For how long will America keep raising their Debt Ceiling ? Is there any limit in the horizon ? Why does this whole thing look like a Ponzi to me ?

And other Questions are; Why does any President who has power and resource to push for a replacement of the dollar as OPEC trading currency get killed ? First it was Saddam Hussein, next was Ghaddafi ?

Now, came the BitCoin, that received massive DDOS attack on their servers ? Who is afraid of BitCoin ? To what end ?

Billyonaire: Like You rightly stated, Chinese Yuan is no option because the Chinese Government can deliberately manipulate the value of their currency, the Euro is a no go area. I certainly suggest a Fiat Currency, but if we are to return to the era of money backed by gold deposits and not currency which has become one big ponzi scheme, then your guess is as good as mine. China has been hoarding Gold and stockpiling huge quantities of the precious metal in recent years, I think China saw this coming. The world needs a fiat currency sooner or later.

we should go for Biafran POUND. Its a stable country and currency. nigeria time no dey o US is diminishing

ckkris: Most African nations generally follow what Nigeria does. If Nigeria becomes organised, Congo will follow, with their enormous potentials, as another post hinted above. The same for South Sudan, Angola, etc. Everyone is waiting.

Yes, DRCongo was already hinting about it Last year.

[quote author=manny4life] [size=16pt]U.S. Debt clock..[/size] For real time activity, http://www.usdebtclock.org/ BEIJING –With days to go before the United States debt default deadline, Beijing aired its frustrations with the shutdown Sunday, saying it was time to consider a “de-Americanized” world order. With $1.28 trillion in U.S. Treasuries, China is easily the biggest foreign holder of American debt. China has also funneled billions of dollars into private American investments – to the tune of an estimated $54 billion in 2012 alone. “As U.S. politicians of both political parties are still shuffling back and forth between the White House and the Capitol Hill without striking a viable deal to bring normality to the body politic they brag about, it is perhaps a good time for the befuddled world to start considering building a de-Americanized world,” according to a stinging op-ed article by st

ckkris: Band aid? Should he have spent more?

Meaning he treated the symptoms and provided temporary relief but did not get to the core

Billyonaire: Please Explain the bold paragraph especially stockpiling dollars via one-way trade.

the Chinese currency is not a floating currency, hence They have the authority to determine the value.In order to limit the appreciation of China’s currency, the renminbi (RMB), against the dollar, China must purchase U.S. dollars.
This has led China to amass a huge level of foreign exchange (FX) reserves, which totaled $3.5 trillion at the end of June 2013.Rather than hold dollars (and other foreign currencies), which earn no interest, the Chinese central government has converted some level of its foreign exchange reserve holdings into U.S. financial securities, including U.S. Treasury securities, U.S. agency debt, U.S. corporate debt, and U.S. equities. China’s holdings of U.S. public and private securities were estimated by the Federal government to total nearly $1.6 trillion as of June 2012.
The investing on US financial securities helps to keep US interest rate relatively low and enable the US to consume more than they produce. The American Chinese relationship is a very complex one and it is in the interest of both parties to maintain this relationship.
It is a game of chess.you can only make one move @ a time, and the other party can decode where u are headed,and respond by making their own move.

BEIJING –With days to go before the United States debt default deadline, Beijing aired its frustrations with the shutdown Sunday, saying it was time to consider a “de-Americanized” world order.

With $1.28 trillion in U.S. Treasuries, China is easily the biggest foreign holder of American debt.

China has also funneled billions of dollars into private American investments – to the tune of an estimated $54 billion in 2012 alone.

“As U.S. politicians of both political parties are still shuffling back and forth between the White House and the Capitol Hill without striking a viable deal to bring normality to the body politic they brag about, it is perhaps a good time for the befuddled world to start considering building a de-Americanized world,” according to a stinging op-ed article by state news agency, Xinhua.
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The article, published Sunday, conveyed Beijing’s frustration with the spending and debt impasse that has paralyzed Washington for more than two weeks.

"Days when the destinies of others are in the hands of a hypocritical nation have to be terminated, and a new world order should be put in place, according to which all nations, big or small, poor or rich, can have their key interests respected and protected on an equal footing,” the piece added.

Hummm....now this is:
A.C.T ....reminds me of Revelation

loswhite: the Chinese currency is not a floating currency, hence They have the authority to determine the value.In order to limit the appreciation of China’s currency, the renminbi (RMB), against the dollar, China must purchase U.S. dollars.
This has led China to amass a huge level of foreign exchange (FX) reserves, which totaled $3.5 trillion at the end of June 2013.Rather than hold dollars (and other foreign currencies), which earn no interest, the Chinese central government has converted some level of its foreign exchange reserve holdings into U.S. financial securities, including U.S. Treasury securities, U.S. agency debt, U.S. corporate debt, and U.S. equities. China’s holdings of U.S. public and private securities were estimated by the Federal government to total nearly $1.6 trillion as of June 2012.
The investing on US financial securities helps to keep US interest rate relatively low and enable the US to consume more than they produce. The American Chinese relationship is a very complex one and it is in the interest of both parties to maintain this relationship.
It is a game of chess.you can only make one move @ a time, and the other party can decode where u are headed,and respond by making their own move.

spot on,china has no option for now,rather they maintain the status quo,calling for "deamericanisation"wouldn't help either,they need to keep their product cheap so that people will keep on buying,its not only cheap labour that is responsible for their products being cheaper than other,the value of their currency play a major role.
America has to balance its debts or else it will implode on it and we will all suffer its consequence.

In the light of this, the two idiot managing our economy & finance are not putting us in the right direction but all they could do is busy themselves on how to change the currency & save more in the SWF/FOREIGN RESERVE so it will all expire along this with this dynasty that has lost its potency & place.
The more reason, america couldn't hit syria - would it sound like to incure more debt. 'The days of a NEW DYNASTY' is here, the rain of a new king is here, who can stop it? not even the almighty america & it alie. I have always knew this day will come & here it is.
GOD BLESS NIGERIA - AMEN, all we need is a better government, economy manager & finance administrator, that can forecast, be futuristic also apply the gamblers anthem, unlike the two we currently have misleading the drone president we have.
GOD BLESS NIGERIA.

NairaMinted:

wow Russia an Brazil

Billyonaire:

Like You rightly stated, Chinese Yuan is no option because the Chinese Government can deliberately manipulate the value of their currency, the Euro is a no go area. I certainly suggest a Fiat Currency, but if we are to return to the era of money backed by gold deposits and not currency which has become one big ponzi scheme, then your guess is as good as mine. China has been hoarding Gold and stockpiling huge quantities of the precious metal in recent years, I think China saw this coming. The world needs a fiat currency sooner or later.

Actually the have already dumped the dollar over a year ago
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jackperkowski/2012/06/26/china-busy-signing-currency-deals/

China’s currency deal with Brazil follows a similar deal with Australia that was struck in March and allows for an exchange of local currencies between the Australian and Chinese central banks, worth up to 30 billion Australian dollars ($31 billion) over three years. Again, the motivation behind the deal is to support bilateral trade between the two countries which already exceeds $100 billion, reduce transaction costs and reduce reliance on the greenback.

Also this year, China and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) signed a three-year currency swap agreement worth 35 billion yuan ($5.54 billion) in January, and a $1.6 billion deal with Turkey in February. China’s bilateral trade is approximately $35 billion with the UAE and $24 billion with Turkey.

China began the process of internationalizing its currency in November 2010 when then-Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao announced that Russia and China had decided to use their own national currencies for bilateral trade, instead of the U.S. dollar. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jackperkowski/2012/06/26/china-busy-signing-currency-deals/
This has already been going on for three years between the real super powers.

0monnakoda:
You are clearly young and don't know what you are talking about. Much of that debt is owed to American businesses and pension funds.That debt is traded on exchanges around the world anonymously and besides it is DOLLAR denominated so America has no reason to not pay,nothing to gain and everything to lose. What does "Paying" mean ? It means servicing the debt by paying the monthly interest and that is supposed to reflect credit worthiness. If it does not pay it cannot borrow and IT NEEDS TO BORROW>
Really if you don't understand the issues just listen and watch QUIETLY

[b]I will not argue with you. So you believe the debt is secured because it is traded on exchanges worldwide? They make the rules and know the leeways to break them. Everything that was thought impossible in financial engineering has happened in recent times.
Do you remember what happened in Greece? How the government jacked some percentages of peoples deposits in the banks.

Remember that when USA cooks some of the financial instruments they sell around the world, some of the principal actors do not even comprehend what they are selling. That was exactly what happened in 2008 about collateralized debt obligations (CDOs). Many countries bought into the hype and got nailed. The fact that it is traded in the exchanges is even the more reason to be cautious. Perhaps you have heard of risk aversion---Buy the rumour, sell the news. Even the best of the best usually get annihilated in this scenario.

If your assertion is right.then why is China calling for de-Americanized world? They see the pattern developing and are taking preemptive and precautionary measures. America's solution to problems they created in the world is usually anchored on semantics. Mark my word---they are trying to wiggle out of the debts. Remember the issue here is increasing the debt limit and not even about honoring the "promissory notes".

[/b]

InvertedHammer:

[b]I will not argue with you. So you believe the debt is secured because it is traded on exchanges worldwide? They make the rules and know the leeways to break them. Everything that was thought impossible in financial engineering has happened in recent times.
Do you remember what happened in Greece? How the government jacked some percentages of peoples deposits in the banks.

Remember that when USA cooks some of the financial instruments they sell around the world, some of the principal actors do not even comprehend what they are selling. That was exactly what happened in 2008 about collateralized debt obligations (CDOs). Many countries bought into the hype and got nailed. The fact that it is traded in the exchanges is even the more reason to be cautious. Perhaps you have heard of risk aversion---Buy the rumour, sell the news. Even the best of the best usually get annihilated in this scenario.

If your assertion is right.then why is China calling for de-Americanized world? They see the pattern developing and are taking preemptive and precautionary measures. America's solution to problems they created in the world is usually anchored on semantics. Mark my word---they are trying to wiggle out of the debts. Remember the issue here is increasing the debt limit and not even about honoring the "promissory notes".

[/b]

Don't bother yourself. Some people just argue blindly and stubbornly. It's what this disaster of a forum is known for.

biafranqueen: China’s currency deal with Brazil follows a similar deal with Australia that was struck in March and allows for an exchange of local currencies between the Australian and Chinese central banks, worth up to 30 billion Australian dollars ($31 billion) over three years. Again, the motivation behind the deal is to support bilateral trade between the two countries which already exceeds $100 billion, reduce transaction costs and reduce reliance on the greenback.

Also this year, China and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) signed a three-year currency swap agreement worth 35 billion yuan ($5.54 billion) in January, and a $1.6 billion deal with Turkey in February. China’s bilateral trade is approximately $35 billion with the UAE and $24 billion with Turkey.

China began the process of internationalizing its currency in November 2010 when then-Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao announced that Russia and China had decided to use their own national currencies for bilateral trade, instead of the U.S. dollar. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jackperkowski/2012/06/26/china-busy-signing-currency-deals/
This has already been going on for three years between the real super powers.

"China took one more step last week towards internationalizing the yuan, ultimately leading to the day when the Chinese currency will be a substitute for the U.S. dollar in all of China’s trade with other countries".why did u skip this part?

InvertedHammer:

[b]I will not argue with you. So you believe the debt is secured because it is traded on exchanges worldwide? They make the rules and know the leeways to break them. Everything that was thought impossible in financial engineering has happened in recent times.
Do you remember what happened in Greece? How the government jacked some percentages of peoples deposits in the banks.

Remember that when USA cooks some of the financial instruments they sell around the world, some of the principal actors do not even comprehend what they are selling. That was exactly what happened in 2008 about collateralized debt obligations (CDOs). Many countries bought into the hype and got nailed. The fact that it is traded in the exchanges is even the more reason to be cautious. Perhaps you have heard of risk aversion---Buy the rumour, sell the news. Even the best of the best usually get annihilated in this scenario.

If your assertion is right.then why is China calling for de-Americanized world? They see the pattern developing and are taking preemptive and precautionary measures. America's solution to problems they created in the world is usually anchored on semantics. Mark my word---they are trying to wiggle out of the debts. Remember the issue here is increasing the debt limit and not even about honoring the "promissory notes".

[/b]

The columnist who wrote that in the first place, is not the president of china, and as such does not speak 4 the whole of china. Some conservative,called 4 the impeachment of Obama,in the US last week.does that mean they speak 4 Americans? the answer is no. When I hear the president of china call 4 dat then dats a different matter.
There are ppl who share that views in china,and it shouldn't come as a surprise,cos they have their own ambition.finally don't buy into that crap of equal footing,cos it is not happening. The Chinese, Americans and Russians,whoever emerges will not do equal footing with other countries.

~Bluetooth:

On a lighter mood, how does this got to do with Nigeria's inability to pay the state governments their statutory monthly allocation despite the SWF and external reserves ?

American economy is in trouble and America is Nigeria's biggest oil patron, I'm sure they are owing Nigeria too....so it is simple, if American collapses Nigeria will collapse or almost collapse because our financial fate to a degree is tied to America. Guess Naija should learn a lesson here....the world's about to be turned into a jungle. #sigh...God help us all.

Morgan567:

American economy is in trouble and America is Nigeria's biggest oil patron, I'm sure they are owing Nigeria too....so it is simple, if American collapses Nigeria will collapse or almost collapse because our financial fate to a degree is tied to America. Guess Naija should learn a lesson here....the world's about to be turned into a jungle. #sigh...God help us all.

get information,b4 commenting on this kind of topics.

Donmams: The fact is any individual or country that oppresses muslims will eventually be destroyed by the Almighty Himself. America is on its way to extinction. So is GEJ.

lame reasoning

Morgan567:

American economy is in trouble and America is Nigeria's biggest oil patron, I'm sure they are owing Nigeria too....so it is simple, if American collapses Nigeria will collapse or almost collapse because our financial fate to a degree is tied to America. Guess Naija should learn a lesson here....the world's about to be turned into a jungle. #sigh...God help us all.

Great good news, if you ask me. End of the nonsense called Nigeria.

Don Magic Juan:

The system is to be blamed. And the system is being managed or as in this case mismanaged by policy makers. If you have a man made problem as in the case of the decline of the American economy which arose from wasteful government spending who should you blame, God?

Obama's solution to the recession was to spend his way out of a depression. That's like opting to borrow to pay your debts. His policy was heavily criticized and the current situation was predicted by those who opposed his handling of the recession.

Now stop being a Nigga and stop trying to dominate the debate.

You are not that smart either

what would u have done if u were Obama? B4 u give answers ,pls tell us ur area of specialization,and tell us if u have been faced with a crisis situation b4.

loswhite: what would u have done if u were Obama? B4 u give answers ,pls tell us ur area of specialization,and tell us if u have been faced with a crisis situation b4.

you an id1ot to state the above.

manny4life:

Right now, there aren't any viable options on the table at the moment, I'm not saying Nigeria shouldn't hold U.S. currency as reserve, what I'm saying is they should reduce it DRASTICALLY. We need to develop our markets both internal and external and build other smaller countries around us where there currency isn't manipulated. For instance, as much as we bicker on NL, Ghana has stability in her currency for a few years now., it's time to support Africa amongst ourselves.

Oh I forgot to add, I commend SLS for initiating the discussion and taking the willing action to begin diversification. I'm an SLS critic, but on this one he got it right. I heard SLS was looking to hold a decent portion of rising African nations.

did I hear u say Ghana has a stable currency? Saying that alone is dumb.

Magic Bishop:

you an id1ot to state the above.

freedom of speech

Wallie: Glad to see the thread finally coming to a sane conclusion!

Funny how people are quick to point out how much US treasury China holds but fail to realize the extent of the symbiotic relationship!

US trade deficit with China is $315 billion (US bought $425 billion worth of goods from China but only sold $110 billion worth of goods to them). This is important because it means that more US cash is following to Chinese companies and workers. http://www.forbes.com/sites/russellflannery/2013/08/03/what-can-be-done-about-the-big-u-s-trade-deficit-with-china/

Also, what is China to do with all the dollars it gets from goods sold to the US? Save it or invest it? If they were to save it, under which currency? If they were to invest it, where and what should they buy? Gold, perhaps? Last year alone, the price of gold has fallen 26.66%!
http://goldprice.org/
http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/gold/all/

China pumps more cash into US because they want to keep fueling the spending spree! The relationship is similar to oil importers in Nigeria extending credit to Nigeria to import oil and getting paid at a later date. The importers know fully well that if they do not extend the credit to Nigeria they will not make a sale.

If US crashes or close its boarders, who will buy the Chinese goods meant for the US market? There will be internal strife and unrest in China because manufacturers will close up shop since they cannot sell their goods.

Take a look at the major trading partners with China and tell if any has the capacity with absorb China’s goods meant for the US –

1. EU (27 countries) 13.3%
2. US 11.7%
3. Hong Kong 8.3%
4. Japan 8%
5. South Korea 6.2%
…
15. South Africa 1.5%
…
19. Angola 0.9%
…
44. Algeria 0.2%

Only 3 African countries made the top 50 list, Nigeria did not even make the list, so I guess they can always expand into Africa except Africa is largely poor and the countries will probably close their boarders if they get swamped with Chinese goods because it will kill off whatever local manufacturing capability they have.

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2006/september/tradoc_113366.pdf

Also, to those suggesting a single currency, do you mean like currently done in the European Union that is being held together by Germany? Do you realize that the Union is not currently working and some countries might be kicked off? See Eurozone crisis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurozone_crisis

on point

loswhite: freedom of speech

You don't even know what that means

Billyonaire: China's worries are legitimate but it is a matter of time before the US gives way for Economy based on money, NOT currency. It is also time we deliberate on the next fiat currency. Nothing lasts forever. This is just the beginning of the end of the empire.

I'm a little worried by ur signature line that says if Satan should vanish, God would be useless. A time certainly is coming after Satan would have been judged; when there would be no evil, a kingdom where there's no night. Where ppl never grow old. Where men would see God in His glory & worship Him forever. A perpetual regime of perfect peace; what makes U say "God will be useless" at that time?