Its just a simple question:

[size=18pt]what is FAITH according to the quran?[/size]

It doesnt require so much plagiarism of off-topic, unrelated material.

Good and Evil

There is one interesting verse which, I felt, spoke directly to me from right off the page. It mentions two words in Arabic, al-khabeeth (the evil), and al-taib (the good). The verse reads:

"Say, the evil and the good are not comparable, even though the abundance of evil will surprise you. So be mindful of your duty to Allah, O Man of understanding, that you may succeed." (5:100)

When I had a look at those two words in Arabic, the evil and the good, and found it in the Qur'an that they both occur seven times. Yet the verse here is saying that they are not comparable. I should NOT expect to find that they occur the same number of times. BUT what does the rest of this verse say?

"The evil and the good are not comparable. The abundance of the evil will surprise you" - and it did for there were too many of them. But it continues,

"So be mindful of your duty to Allah, O Man of understanding, that you may succeed." - So press on. Use your understanding and you will succeed. This is what the verse said to me. Well, I found the answer on one verse further on,

"Allah separates the evil from the good. The evil He piles one on top of the other, heaping them all together." (8:37)

Here is the solution to the difficulty. While we have seven occurrences of al-khabeeth (the evil) which matches up with the occurrences of al-taib (the good), according to the principle of the verse, evil is separated from good and is piled one on top of the other and heaped altogether as one. Hence, we do not count them as 7 separate instances.


                                                         
                                                           Occurrence of Words

A favourite difficulty, or supposed difficulty, which critics like to cite concerning the Qur'an is that - the author of this book was ignorant because he advised Muslims to follow the lunar new year instead of the solar year.

The critics say the author was unaware of the differences in the length of years, that if one follows the twelve lunar months, one loses eleven days every year. However, the author was well aware of the distinction between the length of the solar year and lunar year.

In Chapter 18, Verse 9:

It mentions 300 years and gives their equivalent as 309 years. As it happens, 300 SOLAR years is equal to 309 LUNAR years.

The arabic word for 'month', shahar will be found 12 times in the Qur'an. There are 12 months in a year. If we find twelve months, how many days should we expect to find? The word in arabic is yaum, and as it happens you will find that the word occurs 365 in the Qur'an.

The original issue which had me interested in looking up the occurrence of months and days was this distinction between solar year and the lunar year. Well, for 25 centuries, it has been known that the relative positions of the sun, moon and earth coincide every 19 years. This was discovered by a Greek by the name of Meton, and it is called the 'Metonic' cycle.

Knowing this, I looked again in the index of the word 'year', sanah and found, sure enough, that is occurs in the Qur'an 19 times.

Its just a simple question:

[size=18pt]what is FAITH according to the quran?[/size]

It doesnt require so much plagiarism of off-topic, unrelated material.

Perfect balance of Words

Now, what is the point of this perfect balance of words? For myself, it shows the author was well aware of the distinction between using words and mentioning words, a fine logical point. But more than that, it indicates the preservation of this book.

After giving a lecture on the subject of the Qur'an , I touched on some of these subjects and a questionnaire from the audience afterwards said: "How do we know we still have the original Qur'an. Maybe pieces of it have been lost or extra parts been added?" I pointed out to him that we had pretty well covered that point because since these items, the perfect balance of words in the Qur'an, have come to light only in this generation, anybody who would have lost the portion of this book, hidden some of it, or added some of their own would have been unaware of this carefully hidden code in the book. They would have destroyed this perfect balance.

It is interesting to note too that, well, such a thing might be possible to organize today by the use of a computer to coordinate all words so that whatever thought you might have as to a meaning of a sentence or however you might construe an equation out of a sentence, you could check for yourself and the book will always have the balance of words.

If that were possible today, if it were possible fourteen centuries ago, why would it be done and then left hidden and never drawn to the attention of those who first saw this book? Why it would be left with the hope of the author who contrived this, that maybe in many centuries someone will discover it and have a nice surprise? It is a scheme that does not make sense.



                                                                       Best Explanation

We are told in the Qur'an that no questionnaire will come to the Muslims with the question for which a good answer has not been provided, and the best explanation for whatever his question. This verse says:

"For everything they say we are given something to go back to them and reply." (25:33)

We looked again to the index of the Qur'an and we found the word, qalu (they say), is found three hundred and thirty-two times. Now, what would be the natural counterpart? The Arabic word, qul, which is the command 'say' and you will find at the index it also occurs three hundred and thirty-two times.

Origin of the Qur'an

An interesting feature of the Qur'an is that it replies to critics as to its origin. That is, no one has yet come up with suggestion as to where this book came from which is not commented on within the book itself.

In fact, the new Catholic Encyclopedia, under the heading Qur'an, mentions that over the centuries there has been many theories as to where this book came from. There conclusion: today, no sensible person believes any of these theories. This leaves the Christians in some difficulty. You see, all the theories suggested so far , according to this encyclopedia, are not really acceptable to anyone sensible today. They are too fantastic.

Where did the book come from? Those who have not really examined the Qur'an usually dismissed it as being, they say, a collection of proverbs or aphorisms, saying that one man used to announce from time to time. They imagined that there was a man who, from time to time during the day, will think of some witty little saying and spit it out and those around him will quickly write it down and eventually these were all collected and became the Qur'an.

Those who read the Qur'an will find that it is not anything like that at all. The collection of things said by the Prophet is the subject and the content of the Hadith. But the subjects and contents of the Qur'an are all in a form of a composition and explanation. I site as an example the chapter, Yusuf, which is an entire story in great detail about on e particular episode of one portion of the life of one man. It is a composition.

It is for this reason that virtually all those who have actually examined the Qur'an usually refer to it as being the product of the authorship as attributed to Muhammad and his 'co-adjudicators'. These were supposed to be people who would sit with him and composed the Qur'an. You see they imagined that the Qur'an was composed by a committee.

They acknowledged that there was too much information and it was too well composed for one man to have assembled. So, they imagined that a committee of men used to meet regularly, brought their various sources of information, composed something and then handed to this man and told him, "Go to the people tomorrow, this is your revelation." In other words, it was a fraud concocted by a group of people. But what do we know about fraud? The Qur'an reminds us as it says:

"Saw, now the truth has come, and falsehood neither invents anything nor restores anything." (34:49).

It is hard to translate it into English precisely, but what this verse is telling us is that falsehood is not the source of a new thing. A new and truthful thing cannot come from falsehood and falsehood does not restore, to our minds, the facts. Truth is in agreement with facts. Falsehood is something else. So falsehood is empty. If something is born fraud, it will never bring us new information. It will never endure; it will only collapse over a period of time.

Its just a simple question:

[size=18pt]what is FAITH according to the quran?[/size]

It doesnt require so much plagiarism of off-topic, unrelated material.
You can say you dont know . . . its more honorable than to decieve urself hoping i'll get tired and stop asking.

Challenge

Another interesting verse is a challenge which is addressed to those non-believers. It reads:

"Have they not considered the Qur'an, if it came, other than Allah, surely they will find in it many inconsistencies." (4:82)

Here is a challenge to the reader. If you think you have an explanation where this book came from, have another look at the book. Surely you will be able to uncover some inconsistencies to support your case.

Imagine a student submitting a term paper or a final exam and then writing at the bottom of the page a not to his teacher: "You will find no mistakes in this paper. There are no mistakes on this exam." Can you imagine the teacher letting that rest? The teacher would probably not sleep until uncovering some inconsistency after a challenge like that. It is not the way human beings speak. They do not offer challenges like that. But here we have it in the Qur'an, a direct challenge saying: "If you have a better idea as to where this book came from, here's all you need to do. Find some inconsistencies."

There are critics who make the attempt, critics who try to say the Qur'an contains inconsistencies. A publication that came to my attention recently suggested that the Qur'an was contradictory on the subject of marriage, because in one place, it says: "don't marry more than one wife unless you can provide for them all," and in another place it says: "Don't marry more than four." They see this as a contradiction. What they have is a counter-distinction. In one case, the qualification for marrying more than one has been given. In the other case a limitation on how many may be married is given. There is no contradiction.

Critics are too quick to grab hold of something, give it an interpretation, and then offer it as an excuse to escape the reality of this document.

For critics who would attack the Qur'an and insist it contains mistakes, we can use the same method as in our reply to Christians who claim that Jesus is on record as claiming to be equal to God. Remember the three categories of evidence offered. The evidence offered was insufficient, ambiguous or impossible.

You see, if someone cites a verse from the Qur'an, trying to show that it is a mistake, we only need to show that the verse cited is insufficient to establish that there is a mistake or we need to show that the verse cited cannot possible have the interpretation which the critic is giving it. It will always fall into one of these three categories.

Attributing it to the Devil

I had experience, on one occasion, describing some of the contents in the Qur'an to a man who did not know the book I was talking about. He sat next to me with the cover turned over. I just told him about the book, what it contained and told him it was not the Bible. His conclusion was, the book was miraculous. This man was a minister in a Christian Church. He said, "Yes, that book could not possible have originated with the man and therefore it must come from the devil, because it's not the Bible."

The Qur'an comments on this suggestion in chapter twenty-six, verse two-hundred and eleven, as to those who would suggest that the book came from the devil. It points out that it does not quite suit him, does it? Is this how the devil misleads people? He tells them, worship none but God, he insists that they fast, that they practice charity. Is this how the devil misleads people?

Compare the attitude of someone like this, to the attitude of the Jews who knew Jesus and opposed him until the very end. There is an episode reported in the Bible where Jesus raised a man from the dead, one Lazarus, who had been dead for four days. When Lazarus came out of the tomb, alive again those Jews who were watching, what did they do? Did they suddenly say that this man is a true prophet and become believers? No, the Bible says they immediately discussed among themselves that "since this man is working on his signs soon everyone will believe in him. We've got to find a way to kill him," and they attributed his miraculous powers to the devil. He raised that man by the power of the devil.

Now, the Christians who read that episode will feel very sorry for those Jews who had clear evidence right before their very eyes and attribute the miracles to the devil. Does it not appear that they may be doing the same thing when we illustrate what we have in the Qur'an and their final excuse is only: "It originated with the devil."

A Different Story

There are those who insist that the Qur'an was copied, that it originated in Christian and Jewish sources. As a matter of fact, a book published in recent years called Worshipping the Wrong God has stated, as though it were a fact, that after the first revelation of the Qur'an came to Muhammad, peace be upon him, that his wife died and so he quickly married a Jew and a Christian, and this is where he drew the rest of his sources for his book.

Well, they have the facts partly right. It was ten years after the first revelation of the Qur'an that his wife died, and it was another ten years after that when the Qur'an was virtually completed that he married a Jew and a Christian.

Did he copy from Jewish and Christian sources? In the Qur'an, the ruler of Egypt who opposed Moses is known as Fir'aun, not Pharaoh. The Jews and Christians have always said 'Pharaoh'. It is easy for an Arab to say 'Pharaoh'. But in the Qur'an, it is Fir'aun, with an 'n'. Why? Surely the Jews must have teased them about that and said: "You've got the word wrong. It's 'Pharaoh' and not Fir'aun." But they insisted on it and it continues that way in the Qur'an, Fir'aun.

As it happens, this historical writings of Herodotus, the Greek historian, exist to this day, and Herodotus comments on the ruler of Egypt, being in his day and in the centuries before him, one man who went by the title of Fir'aun.

Did the book copy from the Christians sources? The Qur'an insists that Jesus was not crucified, that this was only an illusion, but that the Jews who thought they crucified Jesus were mistaken because it was not really so. Christians would have no part of that. As it happens, the idea that Jesus was not really crucified is really very ancient and can be traced back to the first century. But Christians who believed that were eliminated as heretics within the first two-hundred years after the time of Jesus and they were not teaching this doctrine anywhere around the Arabian Peninsula fourteen centuries ago.

Could the author of the Qur'an have been copying from Christian sources when he says that Jesus spoke to man as a babe (3:46) and in later life? The Arabic word used indicates that he was still speaking to man and teaching to them in the forties. The Christians have always maintained that Jesus was gone by the time he was thirty-three. It indicates that there could have been no copying. In fact, a man would have to be stubborn and insists on the points as explained in the Qur'an in the face of Christian opposition who would have said: "No! No! I wasn't like that. We tell the story differently."

Its just a simple question:

[size=18pt]what is FAITH according to the quran?[/size]

It doesnt require so much plagiarism of off-topic, unrelated material.
You can say you don't know . . . its more honorable than to decieve yourself hoping i'll get tired and stop asking.

I too can copy and paste.

House Cleaning

Now we go to the words of the prophets themselves, which represent another path that leads to Islam. In the Persian scriptures, which have been around for thousands of years, we read:

"When the Persians should sink so low in mortality, a man will be born in Arabia whose followers will upset their throne, religion and everything. The mighty stiff-necked ones will be overpowered. The house which was built and in which many idols have been placed will purged of idols and people will say their prayers facing towards it. His followers will capture the towns of the Farsi, Entaus and Balkh, and other big places round about. People will embroil with one another. The wise men of Persia and others will join his followers." (Desature no.14)

The Muslims recognize this very quickly because the Ka'bah, the building which all Muslims face in prayers everyday, was at one time filled with idols and it was part of the mission of Muhammad , peace be upon him, to purge the house of idols till today. It was in the next generation, after the time of the Prophet that the wise men of Persia and others did join his followers.



                                                                A Prophet Like Moses

In the Bible, in Deuteronomy chapter eighteen, we have the words of Moses who reports that God told him that H would raise up a prophet, from among the brothers of the Israelites, like Moses.

Christians wish to apply this to Jesus, to say he was the prophet like Moses. It is uncomfortable for them to recognize, however that Jesus was not very much like Moses and Jesus had no father, no wife, no children; he did not die of old age, and he did not lead a nation; all these things Moses had or did. But they say, well, Jesus will return; he will return as a victorious person, and so he will be more like Moses. Do they really expect he will return to also acquire a father and a wife and children and then die of old age? Not usually. Moreover, Jesus was an Israelite. The passage of scripture says that this prophet that was foretold would be raised up among the brothers of the Israelites, not from the Israelites.

In the third chapter of Acts, the disciple Peter speaks to a crowd of people and explains that Jesus has been take up and he is in heaven. He will remain in Heaven and he cannot return until all the things that were promised but God come to pass. So what are we still waiting for, does he tell the crowd? He quotes this very saying of Moses saying:

"For God will raise up a prophet from among the brothers of the Israelites like Moses, "

The point is very clear. Christians like to see this prophet as being Jesus. But read carefully Acts chapter three, what it says is that Jesus awaits a return. He cannot return until the fulfillment of this prophecy, that another prophet has to come. Jesus spoke of it himself and the words survived, just barely, but they survived in the bible. Jesus spoke of God sending another 'Paraclete'.

Paraclete

There is a lot of argument over the meaning of this word 'Paraclete'. For now we can leave that aside. What is a 'Paraclete'? It does not matter. The first letter of John shows that Jesus was a 'Paraclete'. He is called a 'Paraclete' and we have Jesus promising another 'Paraclete' is going to be sent. We lose a lot by this word 'another' in English because it is ambiguous. If someone's car breaks down, and it is a Toyota, and I say, '" I'll go get you another car," maybe I mean, "I'll go and get you another Toyota because this one you have is broken," or maybe I mean, "Forget Toyota, they're no good; I'll go and get you a Datsun." It is an ambiguous word. But the Greeks had a word for it. When they meant 'another' of the same kind, they said aloes. When they meant another of a different kind, they said heteroes. The important thing there is that when Jesus, who was himself a Paraclete, said "God will send you another Paraclete" he used the word aloes, not heteroes.

Christians want to say that this other 'Paraclete' that has been sent was different from Jesus. It was not a man, it was a spirit. What Jesus said was: God will send you another one like me, another man." Muslims believe that Muhammad is the fulfillment of this prophecy by Jesus. The Qur'an says that this man is mentioned in the scriptures of the Jews and the Christians (see7:157).

Christians came to expect that the return of Jesus because of a Jewish misunderstanding. 'Messiah' and 'Son of Man' have been given special significance by the Jews, even though may people were called by this same name as in the Bible. The Jews came to expect a victorious leader. When Jesus did not turn out to be quite what many expected, they hatched the idea that he would return some day and fulfill all these prophecies.

Its just a simple question:

[size=18pt]what is FAITH according to the quran?[/size]

It doesnt require so much plagiarism of off-topic, unrelated material.
You can say you don't know . . . its more honorable than to decieve yourself hoping i'll get tired and stop asking.

House cleaning and faith? Someone is having a mare.  

Follower of Jesus

Suppose that someone observed Jesus two-thousand years ago, and he left this planet, or he went to sleep for two-thousand years an returned today to look for the followers of Jesus, who would he find? Who would he recognize? Christians? I conclude with just this food for thought: the Bible says very clearly that Jesus used to fast. Do Christians fast? Muslims fast; it is obligatory on month every year. The Bible says that Jesus prayed by touching his forehead to the ground. Do Christians pray in this manner? Muslims do. It is characteristic of their prayer and no one on earth is probably ignorant of that fact.

According to Jesus, he told his disciples to greet one another with the expression, "Peace be with you." Do the Christians do that? Muslims do, universally, whether they speak Arabic of not. The greeting for one to another is Assalamu' alaikum (peace be with you).

The brother of Jesus in the Book of James, stated that no man should suggest what he is about to do of highlight his plans for the next few days in anyway without adding the phrase "if God wills." Do not say "I will go here and there do this and that" without adding the phrase "if God wills." Do Christians do that? Muslims do, whether they speak Arabic or not. If they so much as suggest they are going downtown to pick up some groceries, they will add Insha-Allah, which in Arabic means, "If God wills."

These conclude my thoughts on this subject. May Allah guide us always closer to the truth.


@Davidylan:

Posted by: davidylan
Insert Quote
Its just a simple question:

what is FAITH according to the quran?

It doesnt require so much plagiarism of off-topic, unrelated material.
You can say you don't know . . . its more honorable than to decieve yourself hoping i'll get tired and stop asking.

House cleaning and faith? Someone is having a mare.

Calm down man. Stop hyperventilating. I am with you, brother. I know that in Christianity Faith and Belief are not the same thing, because of your hypocracy. You have clearly pointed that out before. cardinal Arienze of nigeria stated it yesterday on a local Catholic channel that i was watching. He said somebody may receive Jesus and do not receive grace. I mused at that statement. What i came out with is not different from you are saying. The Nigerian cardinal was bold enough, in a way insinuating that receiving Jesus was not enough. But receiving Grace without receive jesus seemed to be enough.

You on the other hand that a believer may not have faith in Jesus Christ in Christianity. Those people, if they were Muslims will be called Munafiqun or Hypocrites. It seems thats what has plagued the whole of christianity. Reason is that they have the wrong belief in Jesus. Hence their faith is the wrong one.

Now to answer your question. The second verse of Surah baqarah answered your concern, by saying this is a Book, certainly with clearness and no crookedness, a guidance for those who have faith. That is fate in direct and completely as in true guidance, believing in the total Unseen; God almighty, His Angels, Paradise and Hellfire, the future and of course the Prophets who are already passed. I did not see Adam, Idris, Noah, Ibrahim, Ismail, Isiaq, Yaqub, Yusuf, Musa, haruun, Dauda, Sulaiman, Ezra, Yunusa, Salih, Lut, Idris, Elyas, Hud, Shuib, Sulaiman, Zakaria, yahya, Isa and Muhammad (AS Jamia). Yet I believe in every one of them and all the others i did not mention here. In as long as they are true Messenger and,or prophet of Allah.

Disclaimer: None of your Post Muhammad (AS) Christian prophets! Lol.

@Davidylan:

I too can copy and paste.

It shows. No wonder your biblical knowledge is very poor. Even poorer than mine. I do even have a Bible. There is no obligation for me to have it though.

Its just a simple question:

[size=18pt]what is FAITH according to the quran?[/size]

It doesnt require so much plagiarism of off-topic, unrelated material.
You can say you don't know . . . its more honorable than to decieve yourself hoping i'll get tired and stop asking.

Answer the question alhaji and stop making noise. Just copying and pasting irrelevant nonsense to fill up space.

Yowzah! My head just exploded!!!

Thanks guys, I didn't need it anyway. 

On a serious note, I've read and reread and rereread and I sill have no clue what the debate is about. Now the sensible thing would be for me to shrug and say asta but sometimes I'm not what you'd call . . .sensible.  Apart from that, I genuinely want to understand, one sentence is all I need and I'll work the rest out.

@davidylan
I don't know why you are bothering reapeating yourself to to Alhaji, he obviously has no answer to your questions instead he is spamming the the whole thread with hallucinations of obviously misguided writers.
@alhaji
You obviously don't know the bible at all, from your posts i can see you use to highlight manipultation of biblical scripture and outright falsehoods.

Our so called mega churches, have money for universities and private jets, and it seems not enough money for hospitals.The schools they own and run are way out of the league of the people who really need them.Thank God the early missionaries who brought the gospel to us were'nt like our modern day fathers of faith,with their private jets and convoys, According to their articles of association these churches should be charity organizations,I'd like to ask what percentage of church income goes to charity? It's a shame that the church in Nigeria focuses more on meaningless revivals ,which mostly serve to increase the number of worshipers, and pay lip service to providing an altrnative to the moral decadence which is currently raviging Nigeria. Revivals are good but not an alternative to speaking out for truth in the larger society. Jesus did it and they killed him,our men of God fraternize openly with know fellons and pray for them. May'be I should'nt judge but this is my opinion,you won't find me in their churches,it's all political.

@olabowale
Even though you have demonstrated a strong passion for christianity (despite your religious leanings) your posts have betrayed your weak knowledge and understanding of the true word of God as it is written in the bible, i can't blame you though because most people that profess chriatianity don't even have a very vague idea of what christianity is all about.
Now to your argument with david, it was not the ten commandents that paul was refering to when he was writting about the law. In case you don't know, there were 613 laws which were handed down to the people of israel by moses the ten commandments were only a part of them. some of these laws were not religious they had more to do with customs and tradition of the israelites of that time. That apart Jesus himself was the first to do away with the law ( and not paul as you claimed) when jesus was asked which of the laws (613 of them) was the most important, he did not mention a single law what the said was that you should Love God and you should love your neighbour as your self. finito. In other we should let our conscience guide us as to what i right and what is wrong. If you read the bible at all you would see that Jesus was constantly at logger heads with the pharisees over the issue of the law and that is why he said he came to fufil the law and not abolish it. What was being said here is that Jesus came to fufil the spirit / purpose of the law and not the letters of it. there is a clear difference which you need to understand. The law had a purpose which was to Love God and to love your fellow man. Jesus made it clear that this two points were the whlole purpose of the law and what is more important is keeping this ideal rather than the letters of the law. Jesus also said the "law was made for man and not man for the law" The were several examples of cases were jesus went against the letters of the law in the bible examples of which are, the law of the sabbath and attempted stoning of the woman caught in adultery. This questions about th law and the position of christ on it was thoroughly dealt with by paul and i woud post a few scriptures to back it up.

6 He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life.  
  7 The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. 8 Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life? 9 If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God! 10 In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. 11 So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever!

  12 Since this new way gives us such confidence, we can be very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away. 14[b] But the people’s minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ[/b]. 15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.

  16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17[b] For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom[/b]. 18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.

The are also several passages in the book of Galatians that deal with this issue of the law, i would share some of them with you in subsequent posts

KunleOshob . . . dont mind me, i just had to show alhaji he would no longer get away with dodging serious questions with outright plagiarised spam. Its easu for him to ask questions of the bible, the minute you ask on the quran he runs away.

Good post on the laws and its place in christianity today, however i am afraid alhaji is not likely to understand it at all. He has been programmed (and like every other muslim) to accuse brother Paul of distorting the scriptures - it is their only way of explaining away the huge discrepancies between Paul's message and the fraudulent words of a 12th century "prophet".

Galatians 3
  1 Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross.

2 Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ.

3 How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?

  5 I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ.

    10 But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”[d]

11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”[e]

12 This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”[f]

  13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”[g]

14 Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised[h] Holy Spirit through faith.  

  15 Dear brothers and sisters,[i] here’s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case.
16 God gave the promises to Abraham and his child.[j] And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,[k]” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his child”—and that, of course, means Christ.
17 This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise.
18 For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise.

  19 Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. .

  21 Is there a conflict, then, between God’s law and God’s promises?[l] Absolutely not! If the law could give us new life, we could be made right with God by obeying it.
22 But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God’s promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ.

  23 Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed.

  24 Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. 25 And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian.  
26 For you are all children[m] of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes.[n]
28 There is no longer Jew or Gentile,[o] slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children[p] of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.

I only hope ~Lady~ is reading KunleOshob's write-up.

@Davidylan:

KunleOshob . . . don't mind me, i just had to show alhaji he would no longer get away with dodging serious questions with outright plagiarised spam. Its easu for him to ask questions of the bible, the minute you ask on the quran he runs away.

Haba, David. Aburo. Sebi mo ni ishe ti mo nshe. Ara ti ndara agab die die. I got to sleep sometimes, I am not as strong as I used to me. You have you as an advantage of Strength over me. But I will not take advantage of your inexperience because of your age. I see though, that you want me to go just as much as you push me. You are really not fair, there. Ma ti pa mi. There is some live in me yet. So I just have to pace myself, like the old bull, when the young bull is eager to get to the yams across the fence. You ae that young bull. Pele pele o. lol. On your accusation, tell me again what was your question? I answered the question about what faith is, from Islam. A sincere/true faith is the same as sincere/true belief. Iman is Faith. Only hypocrites will say that they believe but lacks faith.

Good post on the laws and its place in christianity today, however i am afraid alhaji is not likely to understand it at all. He has been programmed (and like every other muslim) to accuse brother Paul of distorting the scriptures - it is their only way of explaining away the huge discrepancies between Paul's message and the fraudulent words of a 12th century "prophet".

Suddenly, Qur'an is now 12th century work. I thought Muhammad lived is the 6th and 7th centuries. How can these be transformed to 12th century? David, you are like Hoodinni. Or David Coppersfield. Iro ni won npe gbogbo yen. Your brother Paul, is the originator of magic in christianity and no surprise that you follow him, step by step, falling for his okeydoke, hook, line and sinker.

Just as i davidylan said Olabowale would change topic when confronted with facts. The central theme of Paul's message was love, which was the exact Gospel Jesus Christ brought to man kind. Very unlike another relgion which preached hatred and war (jihad) and uptill today is still amputating petty thieves while the big crooks amongst them roam around freely perpetuating their illicit activities.
@Olabowale
i suggest you read and digest Galatians 3 very well, it would help you understand the true message of Jesus christ to us and his Love which was demonstrated by setting us free from oppressive laws after his death. This are the same oppressive laws Islam tried to return people to.

@KunleOshob:

when jesus was asked which of the laws (613 of them) was the most important, he did not mention a single law what the said was that you should Love God and you should love your neighbour as your self. finito.

Are you saying that Jesus therefore considered all the laws of circumcision, what to eat and whta not to eat, especially the consumption of Swine and the 10 commandmends, irrelevant and therefore he discarded them? Why then did he warned that whosoever discard and or encourage anyone to discard, even the least of the laws, that person will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven? Tell me, are you confortable to be called the least in the Kingdom of heaven, by the master himself, Jesus Christ son of Mary? What is the different between a person Jesus calls the great in the Kingdom of heaven, being in the highest of honors, compared to whom he calls the least, being without honor at all, or insignificantly honored, if any? Are you shooting for least in the kingdom of heaven? If you go against Jesus saying then you may just as well count yourself among the least!

Just as i davidylan said Olabowale would change topic when confronted with facts. The central theme of Paul's message was love, which was the exact Gospel Jesus Christ brought to man kind. Very unlike another relgion which preached hatred and war (jihad) and uptill today is still amputating petty thieves while the big crooks amongst them roam around freely perpetuating their illicit activities.
@Olabowale
i suggest you read and digest Galatians 3 very well, it would help you understand the true message of Jesus christ to us and his Love which was demonstrated by setting us free from oppressive laws after his death. This are the same oppressive laws Islam tried to return people to.

My post is lost on you. David was shouting about faith. I had answered him. Read again. faith in Islam is sincer belief. What is faith in Christianity? About the big crooks who were allowed to roam about freely, is so because you have hypocracy in Islam. Last week I read from the PM News paper of Nigeria, about President Yar'Adua's removal of Nuhu Ribadu and his immediate successors because of their intended indictments proceeding against Sola Saraki and his son, Bukola. Although, I do not live in Nigeria, if I were, I would not be less vocal about it.

My disappointment is simply that these three are "muslims,' and none of the muslim schollars or people of influence have raised any opinion that the president should allow them to have the chance to defend themselves, since they are accused for sinking Societe Generale Bank! To me, the president action amounts to discouraging the citizenry from practicing honesty. WE see from his action that only the powerful and the influencials are going to be protected. Who protects the poor, the less powerful who were accused with less offences, but the full weight of the law in brought to bear on them? The same hypocracy tha Jesus defended the woman accused of adultery from the hands of the hypocrite and influencial Pharisees.

Why do I need to read galathians? Is the word of Jesus in the gospels not enough? Now tell me who is God Lord that Jesus is referring to in Mark 12 Verse 29, himself or a greater Lord God Who is One and not manifested in multiple? Read the verse again, because it is direct and very clear that he was not talking about himself. How then can you develop Trinity in the face of this very verse? Which is a lie here, Mark 12 Verse 29 or Trinity?
Is the least in the Kingdom of heaven that Christians are shooting for, or the highest?

In other we should let our conscience guide us as to what i right and what is wrong.

I see your point. Then, its okay that everyone therefore decide by his own conscience, what is moral or not. I see unmarried people shacking up and having continuous sex with each other, as long as they don't do it every day, or having a multiple partnership, or doing what was practiced in the bath houses of New York city, before the HIV/AIDS epidemic breakout. Or they may just do that. They are the ones who make up their own standard of morality by the guide of their conscience. You see how silly your presentation above is, as long as Jesus disregarded the 613 laws? You are a terrible thinker. I wonder what is good moral compass for people like you?

If you read the bible at all you would see that Jesus was constantly at logger heads with the pharisees over the issue of the law and that is why he said he came to fufil the law and not abolish it. What was being said here is that Jesus came to fufil the spirit / purpose of the law and not the letters of it. there is a clear difference which you need to understand.

Jesus at logger heads with the Pharisees because they were not sincere in obedience of all the laws. They were just lip serving the laws without conscience. These people were hypocrites, like their fathers of old, who made up a Golden Calf to worship, instead of the One Lord God who made them victorious over Fir'aun, without them engaged in any fight! How did Jesus fulfil the law of not stealing, Circumcision, not eating pork, etc? Can these laws listed here be fulfilled by spirit alone, without actually fulfilling it in its letter? How do you obey not eating pork law, in spirit alone, when you go to the butcher shop and buy Pork chop, for your sunday afternoon/evening barbecue? Yookkie!

How dishonest can you be when you are asked to remove your foreskin and you said water Bermitva is enough? Yet you still have the foreskin attached to your genital, and you claim, boldfacely that you are circumcised? Was Jesus not circumcised before his cousin John Bermitva (Baptized) him? Could you do less than Jesus, if you wanna be Christ like, unless you are saying you are paul like instead? How do you cancel out though shall not steal, though shall not covet your neighbors properties, eg his very attractive wife, who is always home alone, while the husband is away on business journey?

The woman, who is not with any baby yet, nor is she pregnant, while she unfortunately not getting enough love from the busy husband. You are now on summer vacation from school. She is next door to you. Always engaging you in conversation and has invited you to hang out many times with her? How do you avoid her advances, when both of you are now thinking with your little brains, instead of the ones in your heads? You see, as a muslim, we have the law that guides us against it. You have the Law of Allah in the Living Qur'an to remind you of your morality. You don't make it up by yourself. We have a standardized moral code, and you Christians don't. Remember everything is compressed to 2 only. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

Loving your neighbor as youself could be helping your neighbor to keep his wife sexually satisfied, so she is not jumping into  every otherneighbors' bed, but your own alone. Interestingly, there are men, you get off by seeing some other man sleep with their wives. These people are called swingers. Or those who will recrd everything from hiding place, for future viewing. THese people will assume that what they are doing is okay by their own conscience. See your problem?

The law had a purpose which was to Love God and to love your fellow man. Jesus made it clear that this two points were the whlole purpose of the law and what is more important is keeping this ideal rather than the letters of the law.

Like I said above, it will therefore not be difficult to love the neighbor by mounting for him, his always home alone young newly wedded attractive wife. Thats loving your neighbor. No doubt about that. His wife is satisfied. He is happy and you are happy. End of story. Christianity, the easy religion. Anything goes. As long as you have attachment to Jesus.

Jesus also said the "law was made for man and not man for the law"

I agree. Therefore mold the law, the way that best fit your own moral compass. You know if I didn't know better, I would just have became a Christian since the early 70s. I could not have been stiffened with the moral codes of Fornication in the Qur'an. Remember that the law about sex outside marriage is thrown out the window, by Jesus 2 laws which replaced the 613 former laws and the 10 Commandments.

The were several examples of cases were jesus went against the letters of the law in the bible examples of which are, the law of the sabbath and attempted stoning of the woman caught in adultery. This questions about th law and the position of christ on it was thoroughly dealt with by paul and i woud post a few scriptures to back it up.

Again, it will be interesting to know, if after Jesus wisely stopped the attempt to stone the woman accused of adultery, did adultery remain as a sin or not? Did anyone ever was stoned for it, during the lifetime of Jesus, in the whole of the Israelite territories of 12 Nations? Was anyone ever was accused of it there after? If so, did they used to give the example of Jesus about the woman to save their own skin, from stoning?

I as a muslim boldly submit to you that Jesus saved that woman in question, for two reasons, pointing out the hypocracy of the would be executioners and showing that there is also mercy in dealing in even an almost a slam dunk situation. In Islam, you see where Allah said that not killing a killer and not taking the blood money for the life taken, but depending on Him alone is the best reward. Yet it is prescribed that the life of the killer, after judgement can be taken, if revenge is sort. But true forgiveness is allowing him to go and not even take any compensation from him.

Alhaji, no matter how much i write you would never undersrtand, firstly you brought up some arguments which i did not state, i think you are confusing me with David, but i would comment on the issue of the trinity and Jesus being God. Firstly the issue of trinity is a church doctrine and it's basis is not in the bible, however it is not wrong. what it tries to depict is that God is one with his son and the hoy spirit. Another way of looking at it is this Chief Aremu Lagbgaja, Master ade Lagabja and Mister akin Lagbaja are all Lagbaja  because they bear the same surname. I am not one of those who claim Jesus is God, the bible makes it clear that Jesus is the son of God and Jesus always refered to God as his father so the bible is very clear on that. But we also know that Jesus is one with God and God gave him authurity over the heavens and the earth (he has Godly powers) hence the reason some people refer to him as God. 

As christians we have the bible to guide us and the holy spirit to lead us, if you are genuinely a chritian and the spirit is is in you, your conscience would guide you aright and not lead you to "help" your neigbhours wife. When Jesus said you should love your neighbour he added "as you love your self", so if you are ok with your neighbour helping you with your wife, i guess you can go ahead and help him with his(lol) that was on the lighter note, but it takes alot more to understand christianity. The law is wriiten in our hearts and not on paper. But even then Paul warned belivers not to continue in sin because of the grace they enjoy.

@KunleOshaob:

Alhaji, no matter how much i write you would never undersrtand, firstly you brought up some arguments which i did not state, i think you are confusing me with David,

Aren't you are david bowing to the same gods? There is no confusion here.

but i would comment on the issue of the trinity and Jesus being God. Firstly the issue of trinity is a church doctrine and it's basis is not in the bible, however it is not wrong. what it tries to depict is that God is one with his son and the hoy spirit.

Who is the wife of God? We know who bore Jesus, Mary? Ae you saying Mary is God's wife? Are you saying that God had sex with Mary? How does anyone become a true son of a father, except the father god their mother pregnant, by depositing his semen? In the case of Jesus and mary, please explain how God Almighty becomes the father, when He is not Mary's husband? Would it be impossible to create Jesus by just a mere command of the process? Afterall, He God was always a Creator, having that capacity, before He even created anything.

Another way of looking at it is this Chief Aremu Lagbgaja, Master ade Lagabja and Mister akin Lagbaja are all Lagbaja  because they bear the same surname.

And when Chief Aremu Lagbaja dies, you will therefore assume that Master Ade Lagbaja and Mister Akin Lagbaja also die with him? Or when Mr Ade Lagbaja is sleeping with his wife Yemi, Chief Aremu Lagbaja and Mister Akin Lagbaja also were in bed with them? Finally, when Mister Akin Lagbaja goes to school, the Chief Aremu Lagbaja and Master Ade Lagbaja were all there in on his lectures and his studying sessions in the library and resting in the dormatory. Abi bee ko? How best can you explain it to fit Trinity that you are trying to explain?

I am not one of those who claim Jesus is God, the bible makes it clear that Jesus is the son of God and Jesus always refered to God as his father so the bible is very clear on that.

How does jesus becomes son of God, if his mother was not sexually or artificially inseminated, with the semen of God? Who is Gods wife or surrogate mother for His son? In either case there must be sperm coming from God to do this, getting the woman pregnant before the child from it can be called child of god! What happens to Jesus situation in this case? Or you guys are just saying it without even a minimum thought about its truthfulness or its impossibility?

But we also know that Jesus is one with God and God gave him authurity over the heavens and the earth (he has Godly powers) hence the reason some people refer to him as God.

Godly power minus being able to not allow the devil to run him wild into the wilderness, or tempted him three times after that, or being able to dissern that no tree will fruit in its off season, or his not nowing the time of the hour, or begging another God in heaven to take the cup off his head, or crying out to another God as to why he, Jesus was forsakened? Should i continue to poke holes on your terrible statement above?
 

As christians we have the bible to guide us and the holy spirit to lead us,

Okay, tell me how is the bible guiding you and the holy spirit leading you on Mark 12 Verse 29? I need an answer!

if you are genuinely a chritian and the spirit is is in you, your conscience would guide you aright and not lead you to "help" your neigbhours wife. When Jesus said you should love your neighbour he added "as you love your self", so if you are ok with your neighbour helping you with your wife, i guess you can go ahead and help him with his(lol)

You actually miss the point. If a man does not mind somebody helping himself to his wife, so he goes to have a helping of some other person's wife, is this man a man of moral standing conscience? Though, he obeyed Jesus's "Loves of neighbor as oneself?" There are people we call sadists among men. They enjoy pain. It will not be surprising that thy can give pain to some other person, who does not like it. They will be thinking that everyone is like them or at least they are within the confine of jesus' love neighbor as oneself. Is there no moral compass that guide people in Christianity but this flimsy 2 parter laws of God and neighbor? No wonder everything is god to the christians. And almost every goes, too. Poor morality.

that was on the lighter note, but it takes alot more to understand christianity. The law is wriiten in our hearts and not on paper. But even then Paul warned belivers not to continue in sin because of the grace they enjoy.

Try me for size in presenting Christianity. But of course, since hearts are different based on many factors, it is no surprise that we see that most people in lude industries, are christians. And are never ashamed to wear their cross, the symbol of their Christianity during these dispeakable times. Like i said, you are no even ashamed to mention the name of Paul, while you ignored the name of Jesus to provide the warning. Didn't Jesus warned people not to abolish the laws? Was his warning not about being relegated to the least position in the kingdom of heaven, for does who did not heed his warning?

I realise just now that you failed to even approach my question about what your hope is on the matter of kingdom of heaven. Are you working towards being the least in there or are you hoping to be in the highest of level, withhis shurdy faith and work that you ae putting forward? You can be among the greatest, if you do not follow the commandment of jesus as to heed his warning not to abolish any of thelaws, even the least of it! What did Paul do as to circumcision and dietary as to eating pork? Who bore false witness against Jesus and calls him God in the face of Mark 12 Verse 29?

@Olabowale
I really don't have the energy to be replying all this your long epsitles, as i am employed and i have work to do. That asides your posts are always to a premeditated answer not really a quest for true knowledge but more essentially to find faults that don't exist becos of your lack of understanding and more essentially to propagate your false and confused doctrines. As david suggested to you earlier i suggest you restrict yourself to your terrorist section and don't intrude on christian threads again. This thread is meant to be a wake up call to christians who genuinely want to serve God and the church to live a more christ like life and not to engage any mooooslim/jihadist/terrorist on why the christian gospel of true love is superior toany other religious propagander.

I came across this link which explains exactly how and why the christian church changed from the practise of the early christian church established by the apsotles, read, enjoy and be enlightened http://www.thelostbooks.com/intro.htm

@KunleOshob:

@Olabowale
I really don't have the energy to be replying all this your long epsitles, as i am employed and i have work to do.

MashaAllah. E ma ya see o. Alhamdulillah. Maybe I should be talking to your boss or the head of your church. Maybe I can have some honest answer. Remember that you were the one who came to me, calling me terrorist, because i am a muslim. If America can't scare me, how do you think you in Abuja or whereever you may reside will be my concern? I depend, 100% on Allah my Creator. I have survived by His protection alone, with any other protection needed. Orishi ri shi e. Next time I will know not to respond to you.

That asides your posts are always to a premeditated answer not really a quest for true knowledge but more essentially to find faults that don't exist because of your lack of understanding and more essentially to propagate your false and confused doctrines.

I propagate nothing, except what all the Messengers and Prophets brought to mankind; Worship God alone and shun all forms of idols. I wo lo se se ma ko ni bi won nse nronu ni? If you were a smart man, you would have known that I was never a christian. So to have assumed so spoke volume about your true knowledge. If I were the person who employed you, I would have no choice to terminate you from my organization for assuming that Olabowale was a Christian.

As david suggested to you earlier i suggest you restrict yourself to your terrorist section and don't intrude on christian threads again. This thread is meant to be a wake up call to christians who genuinely want to serve God and the church to live a more christ like life and not to engage any mooooslim/jihadist/terrorist on why the christian gospel of true love is superior toany other religious propagander.

You and david have no right to make any suggestion to me, especially how I thread. So your suggestion is rejected. You are not the owner of nairaland. Get it? Ni ile yoruba, a ma npa owe kon: A fe gba omo ediye lowo asha, o ni won je ki owun lo si akiton lo yele je! WE in Islam are true to th duties of the Messengera nd the prophets (AS to all of them), as we are warning your disbelieving persons to turn to your Lord God Almight. That you worship Him alone without any partnership. We are telling you that the failure to do so will lead you into hellfire where you will be punished.

However, if you accept guidance, you will be rewarded with a station in paradise where there will not be any inconvenience and worries. The choice is clear, but have to make it on your own. This is my advice to you, Mr. Worker.

olabowale pls kindly do us a favor and stop posting here again. any further spamming of our beloved threads will prompt us to report you for spam and unsolicited plagiarism.

If you cant honestly answer a direct question without long meaningless epistles then pls stay out.