KA24DETT:

no matter how you cut it, Toyota sienna 4cylinder loaded to the brim with passenger and goods is definitely underpowered. I don't think they make 4cylinder sienna or even if they do, it dosent sell much.
What u mean by tropicalized? Las Vegas is hotter than Nigeria , Phoenix is hotter than Nigeria. Toyota and every manufacturer tests their cars to withstand the extremes of temperature . Your tropicalized and non toropicalized argument is a mute point. I remenber watching Mercedes video on their CLA class and the extreme temperature they put their cars through . Every automaker does that. You have to sell your car in Yukon Canada and also in Death Valley California.

erico2k2:
ALl these you just wrote where true only 15 years ago, |tropicalisation where terms used by local people to establishe thier assumed know how of imported vehicles back in teh days we mainly import cars from Germany Belguim etc, just to jug your memory, mention one car that is built for the tropics if not the SWAMP BUGGIE,you are making refrences to the isue of removing thermostats in cars which we have earlier discused on car talks as very silly.Its cost effective for car manufacturers to design and build cars to a specific standar to ensure cost effectivenes, ie cars could be used in whatever region you take them to.If you claim regions and tapography differs and are major factors in car production as you claim, explan why if I live in New york I can drive my car to frisco ,texas or florida? one is a desert and others are tropical just like west africa, no summer or winter.Cars are built to specification by Law and for all weather.

adejide2: Research says mercury villager 2000 model is very rugged but I need nija owners and expert mechanic who have worked on it to comment about their fuel consumption and reliability.

Trac:

The design considerations specified integrally for a 4-cylinder arrangement intended for van application is not relative to the application of a compact or alternative. If design considerations are side-stepped for van application - in this case - such a manufacturer is practicing out of scope. It is not as noticeable to you but try engineering one and executing the field-analysis-test (F.A.T) at prototype phase. For example: the '93 S Class had the 280 motor as the tamest engine. It powers the 4 tonne vehicle and performance thereof is adequate. The same 280 powered the Baby Benz of that era (C Class). From your logic, would it make sense to transplant a C-Class-designated-280 into an S Class and expect the same results??! There are 4-cylinder trucks as well designed to haul payload heavier than 7 adults. Fundamentally, they don't share the same approach to an economy compact but it is a 4-cylinder arrangement. Considerations are made to attain objectives. If my point wasn't sunk, I'll refer to the ultimate standard: the dictionary. I will use this as an approach to knock two "birds" with this single stone.

Specifications [ENG] An organized listing of basic requirements for materials of construction, product compositions, dimensions, or test conditions; a number of organizations publish standards (for example, American Society of Mechanical Engineers, American Petroleum Institute, and American Society for Testing and Materials), and many companies have their own specifications.

Also known as specs. [IND ENG] A quantitative description of the required characteristics of a device, machine, structure, product, or process.

S.E. Dictionary of Engineering, page 518

Rightly apply the above dictionary disclosure to tropicalised and non-tropicalised standards. If your justification of Nigeria and Las Vegas is the temperature variable, then no explanation will do. There is a lot more to manufacturing [background-wise] than you have conveyed. A point of notion to address: MB's designed for the United States is inherently not the same as MB designed for Africa. The term is called "identical." The engineering explanation to this is called "designation." Why would manufacturers invest billions of Euros to properly ( "unitarily" ) attain standards? Why don't they take your approach and save cost? The answer is simple: your logic doesn't work because it lacks a fundamentally vital attribute: "understanding." Rightly appropriating design considerations in the planning and conceptual phase [all through] to production will ultimately yield a product built to "standard." Nothing is done anyhow; you have precepts/laws and rules are placed to help adhere to precepts.

Trac:

This is incorrect. In 2008, there was - to some level - a unitary move. It was cost efficient for the auto-companies. It was and has never been comprehensive. Unitarily, certain variable were considered and not every automotive manufacturer adopted this move. In engineering creativity, you will always have trade-offs.

To satisfy your question: you [very well] know Texas, New York and Florida is not Africa. What differentiates both zones? Definitely, it is not temperature. Temperature is a scaler quantity. That body of science is called "climate" which is a summation of diverse factors; hence a branch called "Environmental Science." If it's pointless to you, why don't you have apples and strawberries growing in Lagos?! Why is the complexion of your skin the colour it is? Why is your hair texture and structure the way it is? No creation has the texture of the sub-Saharan race. For your own race, why was extra precautions to heat-transfer (or thermodynamics for layman's sake) on your head taken? Why does your hair grow upwards - as oppose to every other race? Sincerely, the answer is not on the surface.

Permit me on this: in design-engineering, there are two fundamental pillars that can never be overlooked in the "planning" phase. These factors are regional and socio-economical. These are considerations. The next step cannot be birthed until these criteria has been resolved (along with the others). It is complex in the automotive sector. This is also why certain cars are not sold to neighbouring or distant market under the same name; though they look identical. The adaption for specific purposes are not the same.

It is true that it is cost-efficient to unify parts for all market but getting the best of both "worlds" is not possible in many designs. In addition, legislative and international laws will forbid certain possibilities. It is easier said to unify standards than done (especially when the numbers are high, high cost and the variables are dynamically complex).

This is furthest I can discuss to avoid being irrelevant to the topic.

KA24DETT: Listen, What you are saying does not make sense in the business world. It is not and will not be cost effective to design a car that for tropical and other conditions. Pick up your map, look at continental USA ( Canada and Mexico ), Every automaker MOST design their car to go the extreme of temperature. Very cold weather in Yukon and Death valley in California. There are 4 seasons in new England and 2 seasons in California. The temperature variation is crazy over here. Admit it when u are wrong. Gosh. All these engineering terms u are yapping does not make sense. MB will not design a car for Africa because it is not economically feasible. They will never recoup the investment. You talking about billions of dollars in design. Same thing over here, MB will not design for tropical and cold regions of US.Its an absurd idea.

KA24DETT: The example you are giving is far from car design. We talking about business sense here and am telling you its cost effective to design a car that would suit all climate in the US. Electric car has not taken off in the US because people are worried about charging stations. People want to drive from NY to LA without thinking about being stranded in the middle of the road. Same analogy can be brought over in Cars, MB will not design a car for different temperatures of US. No one will take you serious. The government will not allow that to happen. You test your cars in different climates and you design parts to withstand stress from different climatic conditions. That's the job of an engineer.
I can't imagine ford designing F-150 (Best selling car in US) for work rigs in Alberta and hot regions of phoenix. Lol

Trac:

It doesn't make sense to you because you don't have the required tuition. What I presented to you is "product-design" in design-engineering perspective. Just as fashion-designing is not mainstream (even if you think you know it). You do not know where I am coming from nor the depth of the scope. There are legislative laws, international laws and codes that manufacturers must adhere to. There is no "one" standard; just as the world is not one. Furthermore, reaction-kinetics is different around the world. This is another engineering consideration that cannot be easily unified comprehensively due to trade-offs. You do not know MB very well neither do you know automotive as a broad, lest you would have understood in clear terms all I have expressed.



With all due respect: constructively criticise! Use facts for facts! I find it offensive when mud is given in response to analytical/detailed points. I gave you product-engineering (as a summary) and I expect to be responded-to in like terms; lest you shouldn't have discredited in the first place. I don't want your opinion; it's wrong and you are entitled to that. The CLA [or whatever] video you have watched is journalism or general entertainment. All you watched was an "activity" with commentary. If it were core in details, you will not be able to understand anything because it is subsidiary-tier information. It is unacceptable to base facts off a T.V. segment without fundamental references. There is more to product-design that you currently think.

As stated earlier, it requires tuition. You don't know (or cannot descry) what I'm putting to details; that's why it appears nonsense to you. There is nothing wrong with that perception; it is perfectly understood.

Disclaimer: It may appear as a rant but it isn't neither am I belittling. We are wasting the time of others in this thread if we continue and I'll rather not - plus it is not profitable to you. Let's not make this deviate the thread.

KA24DETT:

Negro please, u cannot belittle me.
FACT- When u are designing a car for the NA market, u have to make sure that it is relaible and durable to withstand all the climatic conditions that can be experienced in North america. These condition include Very hot summer in Arizona and las vegas, very cold winters in Canada. No automaker in NA designs cars for different tropical condition here. It will not make economic sense and moreover what if the customer decides to move from Canada to California? What happens?
Dude, you are just yabbing and this is not about having the required "tuition".
You keep on jumping from one intellectual argument to another. Now, u talking about international code. U might know automotive but u don't know nothing about NA market, North america Weather or the business when it comes to designing cars.
I used MB as an experience since you are quite familiar with the brand. Am a Nissan guy not an MB guy.
In an argument, you have to present facts in a way an 8 yr old kid will understand.
Am bringing it down to ECONOMICS.
No automaker would tropicalize a car for Africa. No business sense in that. It cost billions in dollars and years to push a car out and any automaker would want his return on investment. Because of the astronomical cost in pushing a car out, most automakers are moving towards alliance to save cost. e.g "Nissan -renault alliance.
Africa auto industry has not matured in a way to dictate standards so we use European and american standards and the buyers decide what to choose.
Now, i never said there is a world standard. European has their standard from bumper heights to automatic leveling headlamps required in all new cars. Canada requires DRL (Daytime running lights) on all cars but US don't require it. Every Jurisdiction has their own requirement and so most automakers adhere to that.
In Canada, we are more aligned to the US because it is a bigger market and having the same standards in cars would be easier for trade. Most GM, FORD and Chrysler cars are made in Canada
YOU ARE WRONG. Yes, its okay to be wrong once in a while. The maturity is knowing when you are wrong and moving on.

instinctg: All dis yabs no need na, OP which car u come choose abi all their oyinbo don add to ur confusion?

Trac:

People believe that behind the mask of a keyboard they can be anything and talk anyhow. No insults came from me; I just "straightened-him-out." His posts had insults in them. He had no reason in the first place to single me out and tell me what I have said was mute when he lacked the understanding roundabout. Thus rendering the content written as void of reasoning. I was serious when I put it together; I wasn't asleep. I am still wondering who he thought he was impressing.

I can call anybody on earth by their first name. When it comes to Nigerians (or neighbours with like-culture), it is conditionally true. Hierarchy is fundamental in Nigerian culture. Those within your peer and below, are addressed by name or pseudonyms. Those older are addressed via salutation (at least general salutation as a form of honour). I am not expecting salutations (I don't like them). There is no room to address any Nairalander as "negro." The word in that context has a lot of history behind it. Furthermore, he is trying to educate me on that slur as though I was born yesterday. It might be okay in def-comedy-jam, it is not in the real world. That is besides the fact that he violated rule#1, 2 & 3 of NL's posting rules. For every action, there will always be a negative reaction. There is only so much people will take.

KA24DETT:

You are something else . You are here giving wrong advices and claiming its the right thing. Because of your massive ego, you can't admit you are wrong but instead deflect the conversation towards Negro. You insulted me by saying that its "below my tuition ". You are a pathetic fool.

My point..
There is nothing like TROPICALIZING A CAR. No automaker in North america does that. We have different types of climates in Northamaerica and it is the job of the automaker to make sure her car can work in all the climates. This is the condition the engineers need to take into consideration when designing the parts for a car. I don't think you know thats since u are a textbook man.

YOUR POINT
You have no point. You are running off topic and trying to turn this into what its not and that shows the level of your maturity and thinking. How did you straighten me out? By deceiving Nairalannders with wrong facts? Stop posting about what u know nothing of.


Nairalanders.
Am currently in Calgary Alberta . This morning, it is -25 ( 25 degrees below zero ), i will start my car and drive it to work no problem. 3 months ago, temperature was 28 degrees like lagos. I still started my car and drove to work. The car behaved like it was DESIGNED to.
What am trying to say is that automakers here have to make sure their car works in all extremes of weather . ITS THE LAW.
Up north in Fort mcmurray. it gets to -45 degrees . Your urine will instantly freeze immediately it hits the ground. People still drive their car to work and it works fine. There is nothing like tropicalizing your car. The Northamerica Car industry is so integrated that its crazy to imagine doing what this guy is insinuating. Ford F-150 trucks are the main work trucks in the cold oil rigs of alberta and the extreme weather of texas and california. Ford has to make sure their truck works in both temperatures. Same as Nissan , Mercedes, Toyota. US NHTSA ( National Highway traffic safety ACT ) , US DOT ( Department of transport) will not allow any automaker to sell car for specific region.

Am using this scenario to explain the extreme of temperatures in Northamerica and how automakers need to take that into consideration when designing parts for their car. Simple and straight to the point.

Trac:

Quote me where I stated it was "below your tuition"?

If you can't quote me on that, then there was no basis for insult. You just ensured you reinforced your utopian view with an insult. I wondered how you thought it would be of advantage to you or add credibility to your text. That's another clause you did not understand; got it twisted - hence your response. A tenth-of-a-minute of critical thinking (that is if you heard yourself) would have left you with a conclusion of compliment. That too was omitted! You can't hold a conversation - a logical conclusion for that matter.

Trac: I made it clear that it requires tuition and you don't have it. Not even the fundamentals to sustain the tuition in question. There is no appropriate expression in the context used as "below your tuition" Tuition means: training: cognitive-discipline: tutelage! Once again, you are seeking attention and it's not helping. The mere reason you do not know what I am talking about does not evade the fact that it exist. The fact google or your t.v. show(s) does not tell you doesn't mean there is no existence to it. I will reiterate it: you lack the tuition. You can't and will not understand what I'm saying. It requires 4 - 6 years of enrollment: fundamentally not to end up with your conclusions. It's what mainstream terms "boring and needless." If you think you got educated by watching an automotive show, then you are joking. There is more to discuss on this but this is not what the thread is about. You are trying to deviate the thread and you have resorted to name-calling; besides the fact that you've said nothing. That is outside of the fact that I challenged you to debunk me and you've made no logical/cognitive attempt so far. For your information, I haven't said anything [yet]: yet the issue isn't comprehended.

Trac: I wonder what occurs when I begin in context; with contextual narrative google will not be able to assist you with. Find another person to argue with.

Trac: Interesting! You must think people are gullible by the pragmatic (emotional) explanation given and you offer no scientific references. I made a simple example (of the many given - including rhetorical biomechanical references) relative to environmental science. Apples: why it grows at one end of the world and doesn't. You may not figure the mockery (at the moment) but regions experience the same temperature value(s). Yet, one is sustainable and the other isn't. Once again, the fundamentals and tuition aren't there and the context will mean nothing to you. Temperature is not the [principal] constraint. Nature also proves you wrong. There is more to this concept than meets the surface. There are legislative laws and standards to adhere to. There are consequences when you design void of standards. I've explained it all. The discussion is closed.

No further comments will do. Expect no response from me. It's getting nowhere. It's adding nothing to the thread and you are making obvious your utopian view to design and manufacturing. In a week or two, the thread will be dormant. Sheer vanity! Vanity!


Enjoy!

KA24DETT:

Thats a Moronic Statement you made up there. You saying it 'requires tuition which you don't have'. Its an insult with a smily face. Don't try to pull a smart one on me



I gave you reasons why cars are not tropicalized and you did not bring up ONE reason how cars are tropicalized. You are ranting up and down without supporting your agreement with the appropriate facts to back it up.


If you have information to support your argument, bring it up.



Make your point, lay out your facts how cars are tropicalized. You are being very stupid with this childish display you are pulling.
I know you wish you hadn't made that comment about tropicalization. You are bringing education into this. With your 6-10 years of schooling, you can not say how cars are tropicalized. Beating your chest about how educated you are make you sound unclannish and ignorant. Put your point across and if it makes sense, i will acknowledge.
I have given examples and scenarios to back up my argument. I expect you to do otherwise or ask for a tuition refund from the school you claimed you went to.
I will leave you with Albert Einstein Quote : "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction". A simple thing as tropicalizing you turned into something bigger.
A wise man will lay their points out to support their argument . A slowpoke reply will go the way of chest- beating, no points to support their argument and will go out of topic. I know which side you will lean on. I really lost the respect i have for you. I thought u are smarter than this.

KA24DETT: If you have information to support your argument, bring it up.

Trac:

Try harder! You've written but "said" nothing. Details and facts is what I am expecting not what you are giving. Fortunately, all the answers you need are in my initial response to you. Do some thinking and apply the information. You can quote all you want and resort to name-calling and school-yard bullying. Debunk all I have stated with facts and details. Counter all from my initial post and explain with facts where I did not make sense. I'm not swayed and you wouldn't last a minute with me with your crowd-mentality. You are wasting your time. Don't expect that I disclose further than I have explained. You did not understand; nothing will do! I'm not processing further for you to understand and be convinced. It is evident and clear that it is coherent; at the same time, it is NOT meant for everyone. Everything published post made by me on this thread is BIASED information but simple enough to convey. It is also dead-on with some rhetorical questions that reinforces the body of response and requires "reading-comprehension." If you are serious about the answer, you would leave your keyboard and interact with people.

Addressing your quote: I am puzzled to what inspired you to inappropriately make such references. It's misplaced. Apply things appropriately. I have exhibited absolutely NO violence but taken time to explain two concepts to you that requires deep thinking to be able to absorb it. It's also the simplest I can convey to you. It gets [far] complicated but will be out of scope (thread). Alternatively, the same cannot be spoken of you.

You cannot solve a problem with the same mentality that created it. Learn to see the world a-new.

Albert Einstein

"Wisdom-of-the-Crowd" is not true and tangible information. It's only survivable on the internet. It's intangible and unaccepted in the real-world. Hence, the emotional roller-coaster when confronted with facts based on core precepts. This is where the root of your problem is. Here is a quote from a book.

"In the Web 2.0 world, the crowd has become the authority on what is true and what is not. Search engines like Google, which run on algorithms that rank results according to the number of previous searches, answer our search queries not with what is most true or most reliable, but merely what is most popular. As a result, our knowledge—about everything from politics, to current affairs, to literature, to science—is being shaped by nothing but the aggregation of responses. The search engine is a quantitative historical record of previous requests. So all the search engine offers is a ranking system that feeds back to us the wisdom of the crowd. In terms of links clicked on and sites visited, Google is an electronic mirror of ourselves. But the problem is that the Web 2.0 generation is taking search-engine results as gospel."

----- Wisdom of the Crowd - How Today's Internet is Killing Our Culture - Page 92-93

Don't feel entitled! If you are interested (beyond what I have stated), "Detroit" offers international professional seminars and trainings during it's annual conferences. Pick your concerned-module. When you are done paying the thousands of dollars for a three-day seminar, you will understand why information is not free.

As previously mentioned, ALL has been stated. No further simplification is needed. It is [to] my discretion on how my post will be conveyed and the associated narrative. Deal with it; you did not understand what I've stated so far and you started-off wrongly and you are too proud for a recourse. If it is unimportant, you wouldn't attack the content. You are just not the right "audience" to confront it. Stop seeking regurgitated information. Don't expect any more information than what I've given (that is core with conceptual references). There is a reason reading-comprehension is tested in standardised placement tests.

There is a 16 page pamphlet titled "Is Google Making Us Stupid" for less than $3.

http://www.amazon.com/Is-Google-Making-Us-Stupid-ebook/dp/B005BRENVE

You will do yourself a lot of good by considering this "second-opinion." No matter how much you spend online, you will NEVER equate to one that got tutored or trained or has paid some price or the other.

Frankly, I don't have time for your "perspective." Neither do I have time to beat on trivial matters; especially when all variables have been disclosed and the recipient fails to play his/her part in deductive-reasoning and critical-thinking. If you can't give facts and details that are intellectual-based, then bury it. You've gotten tangible responses plus a "depth" for you to view your "perception"; it's at least fair you respond in like-manner. If you have nothing, then forget it because you are wasting everybody's time and you are being a gate-keeper. That is besides the fact that the original post published was not addressed to or intended for you. I'm yet to figure what you are gaining. Nigerians will still make the intended modification if/when-need-be because they aren't driven by consumerism.

If you throw "mud" or have no fundamental reference(s) to base your facts upon, I will NOT honour but ignore it. Enough time has been spent and I've disclosed all and my objective accomplished (to create awareness). My original post still stands (that is https://www.nairaland.com/1489847/most-durable-reliable-family-car#19138453) and I appreciate your efforts detailing how displeased you are about it.

Ivoo: If u want a family car that ll meet your conditions above (durable, easy to maintain, fuel economy, etc.) Pls do not hesitate going for "TOYOTA PICNIC". It the best. Most Sienna are Six cylinders (V6) which consume more fuel and difficult to maintain. In fact specialist on 6 cylinders are few and charge high fees. But Picnics are Four cylinders (most) just like regular camry, corrolla. I would also advise "TOYOTA Avensis" if u get the 2-back seater like Picnic. Its few sha. I dont advice anything MAZDA, NISSAN, VW, HONDA for family use. Challenges ranging from Oil linking, electrical problems, gear box damage to wheels inbalances/ aligment, upper arms, shocks, etc are persistant.

begwong:
Go for Opel zafira.I do admire that car for family usage. car gurus in the house can give u its pros/cons.

Trac:


People believe that behind the mask of a keyboard they can be anything and talk anyhow. No insults came from me; I just "straightened-him-out." His posts had insults in them. He had no reason in the first place to single me out and tell me what I have said was mute when he lacked the understanding roundabout. Thus rendering the content written as void of reasoning. I was serious when I put it together; I wasn't asleep. I am still wondering who he thought he was impressing.

I can call anybody on earth by their first name. When it comes to Nigerians (or neighbours with like-culture), it is conditionally true. Hierarchy is fundamental in Nigerian culture. Those within your peer and below, are addressed by name or pseudonyms. Those older are addressed via salutation (at least general salutation as a form of honour). I am not expecting salutations (I don't like them). There is no room to address any Nairalander as "negro." The word in that context has a lot of history behind it. Furthermore, he is trying to educate me on that slur as though I was born yesterday. It might be okay in def-comedy-jam, it is not in the real world. That is besides the fact that he violated rule#1, 2 & 3 of NL's posting rules. For every action, there will always be a negative reaction. There is only so much people will take.