It's almost impossible for them to operate without lying

Explain.  Name instances, was it directly with you or something you've heard?  Where are you located?  What kind of attorney's are you talking about as in, what area of law?

Please provide me with an example in which you knew a lawyer was lying and under what circumstances. Also, how was it that you knew this and did not report it to his/her supervisor to have his license to practice yanked.

I don't know where this impression that lawyers lie in order to represent their clients comes from. I am soon to be licensed as an attorney in the U.S., and I can tell you that since the first day I entered law school to the days I worked as an intern at the public defender's office to now that I am an associate at a big law firm, the importance of adhering to an ethical code of conduct has been ingrained in me and now guides my practice.

In order to be licensed in any U.S jurisdiction an attorney has to take a professional ethics exam that is separate from the bar exam. In addition, one of the most tested areas in the bar exam (at least in CA's bar exam) is an professional responsibility. Not only is lying wrong, an attorney can be disbarred, subject to monetary sanctions, and sued for malpractice for telling alie. A lawyer has an absolute professional duty not to knowingly tell a lie to his client, the court, the jury, or to anyone in his or her professional capacity. A lawyer has a duty to not take a case if taking the case means the lawyer has to lie in order to win for the client.

Now this does not mean that an attorney cannot zealosuly represent his/her client. First, there are two sides to every story. An attoreny has a duty to tell his client's story in the best possible light. So an attorney may carefuly select the facts to present about his clients so that his client's story is sympathetic to the court or jury, but cannot change the facts or misrepresent the facts. An attorney cannot profess that his client is innocent or anything along those lines that can be construed as a lie. Rather, the attorney professes that the other side has not met their burden of proof or has not established a case against his client. This is not saying my client did not do it. it is is saying, whether or not my client did it, the court of law requires the other side to prove their case against my client.

Additionally, beleive it or not, there are tons of lawyers that are not litigators (court or trial lawyers) and are thus not always in an aderversarial role. transactional lawyers and the like have no incentive to lie because they must coorporate with the other and be on the same level with them in order to close a deal. And if a lawyer does not close a deal for his client, he does not get return business. So, the deals or transactional lawyer (i.e, corporate lawyer) has a strong incentive to be fair.

forgive the spelling and grammatical errors, i typed this in a hurry. I'm off to my lunch break!

P.S, a very interesting post, will show it to my colleagues at the law firm for their insight!

Vostel,

I thank you for that. Excellent post.

V

thanks vexx. im a lawyer and i can tell you lying is a rarity. of course it exists, but its not the norm and its punished if found

I want to take the gsat and go to law school. I was always under the impression that Lawyers rarely need to lie because they are experts in manipulating language and words.

Can there be any lawyer on earth without lie?

Why of course, all they need to do is withold some truth and exaggerate a few things.

Again, tell me an instance in which this happened. You can't say with-holding truth as much as only asserting relevant information. Also, exaggeration is a form of lying.

kelvin:

Why of course, all they need to do is withold some truth and exaggerate a few things.

totally agree

lawyers practices more of deception than lying

Deception? That's still not quite right. I'm seeing all of these accusations but I'm not getting any type of example.

hey guyz,better watch what u say aba lawyers b/4 u end up wit bruises on ya face
cuz i wanna be 1 maself

THEY LIE MATUREDLY
U KNOW WHAT THEY CALL OFFICIAL OR TECHNICAL LIE

Is any one here familiar with ethics? i dont think lieing has anything to do with lawyering. i am not a lawyer, but i think laywers operate within certain parameters set by the law. i can't imagine a client asking a lawyer for representation, and the lawyer, after hearing his statement says, " sorry i can't defend you because you are a thief or whatever.." it is the respomsibilities of lawyers to try defend their clients and keep their information confidential. that is what the law says.

its like asking which is better, law or morals? perhaps there is an answer to that.

This question becomes an issue as a result of a lay-man's perception of law. Permit to give some elementary instnces. There is a presumption that every one is innocent until proved guilty. To prove a person guilty, you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt. Now in criminal law, you must prove two things to secure a convition; the physical act and the intention.

To a lay man if a driver incidentally knocks down a pedestrian,the conclusion is that he is guilty of murder. However a lawyer will point out that there was no intention to kill. Is that a lie? Put yourself in the postion of the driver. Did you intend to kill when you leave your house?

I will commend to members the following quotation from Oputa JSC; 'Justice is not a one-way traffic. There must be justice for the accused, justice for the society and of course justice for the victim.

Law is a nobel profession. No Lie.Nothing but the truth.

We dont lie. ..we only manipulate our cases to suit the course of justice.

...even when the accused tells u confidentially that he killed the prosecutors daughter?

my dad is a lawyer who does his work honestly(hez dat kinda man who is honest) to prove dat the man wouldnt let me get aphone from some guy cuz its not registered in my own name.
but truth of the matter is MOST LAWYERS LIE, so a guy kills someone right. and hes arrest and charged with first degree murder. he gets a lawyer that helps rich pplz. the lawyer knoz his guilty. the man says hez guilty and cant afford to go to jail. - (first lie, he knowz his guilty n represents him)but therez 45%chancee to prove he is guilty but bein a good lawyer he works his way. uses what the law says n shite n and when they do the verdict thizzle he says not guilty-(second lie) and thru the process of sayin his not guilty and doin all da courtroom tingz hez probably told more lies than i have in my whole life. and datz how it goes for many liars.
HOW DO YOU KNOW A LAWYER IS LYING?
WHEN HE OPENES HIS MOUTH(EXCEPTION OF MA DAD)
HOW DO U SAVE A DROWNIN LAWYER?
YOU DONT, JUZ BRING HIM UP AND TIE A HUGE BRICK TO THE END OF HIS LEG AND PUSH HIM BACK IN (OF COURSE EXCEPTION OF DEAREST DAD)
alrite pplz holla at me to leave your im sure very interestin comments

OH BTW MANIPULATING IS THE FANCY WORD FOR LYING. ITS LYING FOR PPLZ DAT DONT KNO ENUF ENGLISH HENCE DA TOPIC.

haha after of an hr of arguin with lawyer dad we have come to the conclusion that lawyers will will see that they have a chance of makin the case to their favor, but it will be built upon a lie.
HAHA WHAT U THINK I GET THE ARGUIN GENE FROM MY DAD.
I KNOW HE MUST BE BAFFLED

if a lawyer knows his clients is guilty he could be disbarred for putting him on the stand to say otherwise?

Here are some examples:

In the US, there are lawyers called Ambulance chasers.  As an accident victim, they advice you on ways to win big by claiming whiplash, even though the victim came out of the accident without a scratch.  What is the lawyer's motive here?  Well, he gets a cut (sometimes up to 60%).  Is that lying?

A guy commits murder.  Lawyer claims insanity.  Is that lying?

No all cases are this clear-cut.  However, if we consider the fact that a lawyer's primary concern is a win for his obviously guilty client, we can say lawyers are liars, or truth benders.

There is something called attorney client privilege.  Why is this privilege even needed?  Is the lawyer hiding something?  A lie perhaps?  Well, it's needed to prevent investigators from uncovering the truth from lawyers.

A lawyer simply applies the laws to the facts available, to exonerate his client. Remember the lawyer was never a party to the situation that gave rise to the case. A lawyer is not a truth-seeker. That job is for either the judge or the jury. A lawyer who is not comfortable applying the laws to the facts presented, in favour of his clients may excuse himself from the case. However, society will not allow a lawyer to provide information obtained in his capacity as an attorney against his client. This ensures a more reliable justice system. This is law and not religion. A lot of you will agree with me that we should uphold both values but keep them separate.

A lawyer can practise without lying..but the laywer should have something else going on in his or her life just incase..I know cerebrity lawyers due to their straight forwardness and truth....but u gotta have back up finance so that when u fall hmmm

Sometimes lawyers fall under the pressures of their corrupt superiors, and will either choose to go dishonesty or honesty. There are lawyers who are doing things that are unjust; however, it starts with the judge that is overseeing the case and trickles down to the lawyer, and on down to the person being charged.

Ex: Knows of a case where the defendant paid everyone off in order to stay out of jail...........the judge and the lawyers took the bribe and are still in their said positions. Makes you wonder, huh? Have seen the same scenario with a less financially stable person, and that person was convicted.

There are also lawyers who try to feel their clients to see which side of the fence they are on so that they can present their case based on what the client has agreed to in terms of facts or lies.

Ex: Knows of a case where the lawyer basically got the defendant off by reversing the scenario and providing false evidence through unethical witnesses

There are lawyers who do underhanded stuff that will benefit their clients.

Ex: A lawyer made a practice of doing things to benefit his clients that was not ethical. Well, after years of doing this he was finally caught up with. His license was suspended for some years; however, they did allow him to get them back and practice law under very strict guidelines and a warning.

Now, do know that this type of behavior is among a select few.

I applaud those lawyers who take pride in their careers and uphold their ethical standards regardless of what they might be faced with on a daily basis.

Everybody lies....lawyers are just too good at it and well trained for it....living in truthful world is boring. Actually it depends on what we classify as lies? Anything not factual is considered a lie....so there's a little truth in everything and a little lie in everything. Lawyers are there to do all they are EMPOWERED to do and win your case (get u out of jail, win u money etc) The point is how far off the FACTS will a lawyer stray in order to win his/her case? And by the way Prosecutors 'lie' because they too are lawyers representing the government....and we all know how far the govt will go in order to proctect its image... **cough** Bush **cough** The U.S. justice relies on the "reasonable doubt" policy which should really be called "reasonable lie"....as long as my lawyer can prove my innocence within a reasonable lie, then I'm a free man.

Well, take it or leave it, law is a proffession and you dont call them liars for defending their client. afterall law is all about defence. and if you are accused of doing something,you need a defence and thats where the lawyers come in. i no talk say defence is lying ooo, but atleast be a good defender and see where it would lead you.

not every lawyer is a liar,in every profession there are saints and sinners. the legal profession has ethics and if someone does anything contrary to the ethics, you can always report the person to the Bar assosciation for disciplinary action to be taken .
I however believe you are talking about loopholes in the law that lawyers exploit to favour their clients at the expense of the truth.
I In Nigeria you do not gather evidence through scientific means, everything is crude . when a crime occurs the police etc use beatings and torture to extract confessionswhich most times are not true.how does an accused prove that rhe evidence obtained was through extra legal means.the burden of proof lies on the accused.

Why is Lagos so filthy.DOES THE GOVERNMENT FUNCTION?

why is it about lagos alone and is this a mixture of topics or what?!

Dear all,

Well maybe to the rescue. I am a Lawyer and what i would say is that most of the answers are not based on personal experiences but on hearsay. Lawyers when in court cannot tell a lie because it would amount to perjury. Lawyers try to swerve justice on their part. They use statutes, precedents & case law to back up peculiar facts which they stand to prove in court.

There is jurisprudential saying that the Law is what it is and not what it ought to be . A layman would under this notion think that i ought to rescue a baby crawling to the pool, but what is ,is that i can choose not to because i am not under any obligation to do so. Least i forgot, an opinion is that criminal lawyers lie, well the points above mentioned should help debunk that notion.

Please, this forum should help us know in depth some things that are not clear and i hope i have tried. I am open to other comments.

Lets be objective about this. A lawyer or judge can only argue or pass judgement based on the facts available. He is not in the subconscious of his clients or witnesses to know if he is lying or not.

Besides what is a lie, it is stating something diferently from what it was or is. So the question now is how do you know it is a lie? How do you know that what u claim to be the truth is not a lie? Is there ever a complete lie and a complete truth?

What if u are framed and all the evidence points at u but really u are not guilty,then judgement is passed and u are sentenced because the evidence presented is what the court claims is the truth?

The Rotary club says, speak the truth always but before doing so, search in your mind if it is fair to all concerned.

Will it bring war or peace?

Food for thought?