cloudstar: The issue of racism is a touchy subject in Muslim history and a well documented one at that. Even amongst the Arabs, there was always a superior tribe:

Sahih Bukhari 9:89:329 = Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard the Prophet saying, "There will be twelve Muslim rulers (who will rule all the Islamic world)." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said, "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish."

but you said muslims are a favored race, now you are saying not all muslims are part of that favoured race, any case u know what is called a prediction? shey? in essence he foretold that 12 rulers would be from the quraysh let compare it to this prediction found in the bible,

. Jesus will be a member of the tribe of Judah. Prophecy: Genesis 49:10. Fulfilled: Luke 3:33.

let's repeat your allegation, who ever said the above placed the tribe of juda over all other tribes of Israel and other race,

Jesus will be from the lineage of King David. Prophecy: Jeremiah 23:5. Fulfilled: Matthew 1:6.

Here we see that David lineage (incidentally in the lineage there are many murderers and incest abominations) placed over every other family and groups in Israel.

That is what your allegation sound like, in the hadith you stated you simply don't what you are talking about, Muhammed predicted 12 rulers who rule muslims, but historically there are over a hundred and then came the Turks, most of the hundreds are arabs who were from quraysh tribe but the prophet specifically mentioned 12, in essence what you claim is exalting the quraysh tribe was simply a prediction about what would happen in the future and guess what it did!

cloudstar:
Here, Mohammad said his tribe will be the ruling class of the Arabs. In other places, Allah or whosoever that is talking in the Quran said some Arabs are inferior in race:

No you are simply wrong here, he predicted that 12 out of the hundreds of rulers that would rule the muslim world would be from Quraysh. nowhere did he say specifically that

Surah 9:97 = The Arabs of the desert are the worst in Unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger: But Allah is All-knowing, All-Wise.[/quote]

But among the bedouins are some who believe in Allah and the Last Day and consider what they spend as means of nearness to Allah and of [obtaining] invocations of the Messenger. Unquestionably, it is a means of nearness for them. Allah will admit them to His mercy. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

poor you, u hurridly jump up when u reach 9:97 that u failed to reach 9:99

so obviously u have no point. let compare it to an statement credited to Jesus;

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly."Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs." Yes it is, Lord," she said. "Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table." matt 15: 22 - 23

only one who is blind would fail to note the racist connotation of the verse

cloudstar:
Even among Arabs themselves, there was racism and Mohammad said his Quraish tribe will rule. There is a lot of evidence confirming certain racist remarks he made about black people:

Sahih Bukhari 9:89:256 = Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin."

isn't ironical a hadith that demands every Muslim to obey their ruler even if his black is what you turn around to claim racism? you deserve everyones' pity and prayers! you have no point, even in the bible, Jesus never told his Jewish brethren to obey any black person, instead he restates the pre eminience of the Jews over non jews,

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly."Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs." Yes it is, Lord," she said. "Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table." matt 15: 22 - 23

cloudstar:
Here, we clearly see that a non black slave was worth two black slaves

Sahih Muslim 10:3901 = J[i]abir (Allah be pleased with him) reported: There came a slave and pledg- ed allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man)[/i]

where is the racism or you want to start your usually tirades of desperation?

cloudstar:
Al-Tabari, Vol. 2, p. 11, p. 11 = Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks.

A lot of tales in Tabari are not considered authentic.

cloudstar:
Sahih Bukhari 9:87:161 = Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "I saw (in a dream) a black woman with unkempt hair going out of Medina and settling at Mahai'a, i.e., Al-Juhfa. I interpreted that as a symbol of epidemic of Medina being transferred to that place (Al-Juhfa)."

please can u point the racism here?

cloudstar:
There are two many Hadiths and Islamic sources to quote. It's hard to claim that Mohammad either didn't respect blacks or was racist.

No there are actually to many dishonest Islamophobes who resort to quoting wikiislam and making allegations that are applies more to the christianity!

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood.

vedaxcool

lol so muslim is now a race?

So, you ignored the Surahs I quoted and decided to cherry pick my words. My mistake, Islam is not a race and muslims are not race. Can you please explain:

Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (Surah 3:110)

Those who disbelieve from among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (Surah 98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (Surah 8:55)

If Allah loves everyone equally, why does describe non-muslims as the worst of creatures and muslims as the best of peoples?

https://www.nairaland.com/1264396/8-telling-signs-suffer-islamophobia

I have been called/termed worst! . I wear it with pride.

poor him indeed, he goes on in his next post to contradict his point, being a Muslim no longer makes you part of a favoured race but means you retain your race and could be discriminated by other races especially the arabs, why? Are u in any way related to Mitt? u know flip flopping?

That is what you are good at, ignoring the questions and running off in another direction .

lanrexlan

Muslims are the best people evolved from mankind only if they enjoined what's right and forbids what's wrong and believe in the oneness of Allah.You can also join the best of mankind

Bros, that is not what the Quran said. The Quran said Muslims are the best of people because they are Muslims & believe in Allah. Stop adding salt and pepper to secularize the Surah. The second part of the Surah confirmed that some Jew & Christians have faith; so this is not an issue about faith or monotheism as Jews & Christians believe in One God.

What should I say about you? Can't reason or comprehend simple thing?? Humans are equal in the sight of Allah if faith is to be taken away,no white is superior to black nor vice versa because we are created equally and descended from Adam.
But when faith is included,some people accepted faith while others rejected faith then,the best of men are those who have faith and keep the commandments of Allah.

So, you know better than Allah that said non-muslims are the worst of creatures abi? The Quran claims to be very clear and anyone can understand it. So, why didn't Allah make himself clear? Why didn't he say Muslims, Christians and Jews are the best of peoples? You are here putting words in Allah's mouth.

A believer is beloved to Allah than a disbeliever.Why? Because of his faith in Allah and keeping his commandments.Is it hard to comprehend?

That makes sense, what doesn't make sense is for Allah to HATE people that don't have faith in him and deliberately mislead them.

Surah 36:7-10 = Certainly the word has proved true of most of them, so they do not believe. Surely We have placed chains on their necks, and these reach up to their chins, so they have their heads raised aloft. And We have made before them a barrier and a barrier behind them, then We have covered them over so that they do not see. And it is alike to them whether you warn them or warn them not: they do not believe.

How can "God" prevent disbelievers from believing in him; isn't "God" supposed to make a way for them to come to him? Na wa for Allah oh!

See this simple analogue,who's more beloved and dearer to an employer? A hard working employee or an employee that plays with his job? Reason yourself if you can.

An employer is NOT GOD for heavens sake bros. You can't compare the character of God to that of an employer.

Animals are better than disbelievers because they praise and glorify Allah.Then if animals glorify Allah and disbelievers don't,are the disbelievers not worst than animals? Verily,the words of Allah are true.
I am very sure you just jumped into conclusion,you didn't read those posts before posting.

WOW!. So animals glorify and praise Allah. So animals are Muslims too . You guys will kill me with laugh?. Again, Allah should be able to better express himself if he meant what you are saying. In so many worlds; you have said the same thing - If one doesn't believe in Allah, he is less than an animal. So, if you neighbor teenager who for the sake of explanation happens to be a Christian was drowning in a pool and a goat was drowning as well - by your explanation, Allah will save the goats life and leave the teenager to perish abi? What a god!

The Quran and prophet Muhammad(pbuh) last sermon never contradicts.The Quran says in Surah Al-Hujurat 49:13 -O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female,and made you into nations and tribes,that you may know one another.Verily,THE MOST HONORABLE OF YOU WITH ALLAH IS THAT (BELIEVER) WHO HAS AT-TAQWA [i.e. PIETY,SELF-CONTROL].Verily,Allah is All-Knowing,All-Aware.
Did prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said anything contradictory? Absolutely NO!
All mankind is from Adam and Eve,an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab;also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white EXCEPT BY PIETY AND GOOD ACTION.
You didn't read this abi? How did a black has superiority over a white? Through piety.How did a white has superiority over a black? Through piety.If a black man has piety and an arab rejects faith,the black is superior to that arab and vice versa.
Dude,next time if you don't have any tangible thing to contribute just keep watching you hear

Why didn't you tackle the verses I mentioned. If we are all equal in Allah's eyes as you want us to believe why can't Allah's character be the same irrespective of one's faith. Should a non-muslim be considered less than a goat or a dog because he doesn't believe in Allah or because he is not a muslim?

If Mohammad treated all men equal, why did he own and sell slaves?

Al-Bukhari Volume 3, Book 34, Number 351:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah:

A man decided that a slave of his would be manumitted after his death and later on he was in need of money, so the Prophet took the slave and said, "Who will buy this slave from me?" Nu'aim bin 'Abdullah bought him for such and such price and the Prophet gave him the slave

Here is Allah transforming Jews in Swines and Pigs

Surah 5:60 = "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"

Can you explain to me, how can Allah who created everyone will decide to turn some of his creations in swines and pigs just because they don't believe in him.

Surah 2:65 = And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

Here, Allah transforms the Jews into apes because they didn't observe the Sabbath. Can you please explain why Allah will do something like this. Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath, does that mean Jesus will be transformed into an ape as well?

(Surah 3:32) Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger": But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith. So, if you don't believe in Allah, he hates you. How can the 'Almighty God' hate me because I don't believe in him? God hates sin, He doesn't hate people.

It's very clear that Allah is picky on who he chooses to love and hate based on their faith. I honestly pity his subjects

vedaxcool

but you said muslims are a favored race, now you are saying not all muslims are part of that favoured race, any case u know what is called a prediction? shey? in essence he foretold that 12 rulers would be from the quraysh let compare it to this prediction found in the bible,

It wasn't me that "said" anything. I quoted the Hadiths and Quran. Muslims are favored and are considered the best of people when it comes to non-muslims. So, whether it be a Shitte or Sunni, Allah consider them greater and better than non-muslims. Again, I didn't say that; it is stated in your Quran.

That the 12 rulers will be from his own tribe is favorism over other tribes in Arabia. He wanted to keep the succession of ruling in his own tribe. Ali wasn't from his tribe. As you are aware, this is one of the reason that caused the deep division between the Sunnis and Shias/Shittes. How many wars have been fought between Muslims for this single fact?

Jesus will be a member of the tribe of Judah. Prophecy: Genesis 49:10. Fulfilled: Luke 3:33.

let's repeat your allegation, who ever said the above placed the tribe of juda over all other tribes of Israel and other race,

Jesus will be from the lineage of King David. Prophecy: Jeremiah 23:5. Fulfilled: Matthew 1:6.

Here we see that David lineage (incidentally in the lineage there are many murderers and incest abominations) placed over every other family and groups in Israel.

You should be reminded that the 1st king Saul was from a different tribe than Judah. So, it's not a matter of tribe. And yes, David committed several sins and God punished him for it but unlike Saul, he repented. Compare that to Allah who deliberately mis-leads believers.

That is what your allegation sound like, in the hadith you stated you simply don't what you are talking about, Muhammed predicted 12 rulers who rule muslims, but historically there are over a hundred and then came the Turks, most of the hundreds are arabs who were from quraysh tribe but the prophet specifically mentioned 12, in essence what you claim is exalting the quraysh tribe was simply a prediction about what would happen in the future and guess what it did!

No kidding, Wasn't Ali more qualified than any other Muslim and on several occassions saved Mohammad's life several times? Why didn't Allah consider Ali?

poor you, u hurridly jump up when u reach 9:97 that u failed to reach 9:99

Really!. The greatest story of Mohammad's discrimination and double standards is reflected in his statement: "Succession after me should be vested only in Quraish". It appears you should read your Hadith more, I will quote the following:

Al-Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 704-705: Narrated Muhammad bin Jubair bin Mut'im:

That while he was with a delegation from Quraish to Muawiya, the latter heard the news that 'Abdullah bin 'Amr bin Al-'As said that there would be a king from the tribe of Qahtan. On that Muawiya became angry, got up and then praised Allah as He deserved, and said, "Now then, I have heard that some men amongst you narrate things which are neither in the Holy Book, nor have been told by Allah's Apostle. Those men are the ignorant amongst you. Beware of such hopes as make the people go astray, for I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'Authority of ruling will remain with Quraish, and whoever bears hostility to them, Allah will destroy him as long as they abide by the laws of the religion.' "

Narrated Ibn Umar:

The Prophet said, "Authority of ruling will remain with Quraish, even if only two of them remained."

It only shows you don't read your Hadiths and display lack of knowledge when it comes to Islam history on this subject.

MOVING FORWARD: Muhammad's confederates, who came from outside Quraish, were his best supporters during his calling. Sa'd Ibn Ubadah was first on the list of Muhammad's successors because he received him at Medina, and called Muhammad's people to accept and support him. Had it not been for Sa'd, Muhammad's calling would have totally failed. Despite that, Muhammad ordered the succession to stay in his Quraish tribe. Although the people of Quraish persecuted him and declared war against him, he gave them, not his allies (the Ansars), the right to succeed him.

Here we read again:

Al-Bukhari Volume 9, Book 89, Number 254: Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "This matter (caliphate) will remain with the Quraish even if only two of them were still existing."

I can quote more hadiths but it's clear that he wanted his tribe to rule only. It pokes a hole in your explanation bros

so obviously u have no point. let compare it to an statement credited to Jesus;

It shows you don't read your Hadith and Quran extensively

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly."Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs." Yes it is, Lord," she said. "Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table." matt 15: 22 - 23

only one who is blind would fail to note the racist connotation of the verse

I guess the "racist" Jesus was "racist" enough to heal her daughter - hmmmmm!. Perhaps Mohammad can learn a thing or two

isn't ironical a hadith that demands every Muslim to obey their ruler even if his black is what you turn around to claim racism? you deserve everyones' pity and prayers! you have no point, even in the bible, Jesus never told his Jewish brethren to obey any black person, instead he restates the pre eminience of the Jews over non jews,

As always, you have to bring in the Bible to clarify the Islamic text, as if they can't exist without the Bible. No one is denying the hadith is talking about obeying your ruler irrespective of his color. The issue is the description of the "black ruler" in the hadith. Why couldn't Mo just say - "Hey guys, you can obey your ruler irrespective of his skin color or even if he is black. Attributing a black's man head to that of a raisin is at best belittling and insulting.

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly."Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs." Yes it is, Lord," she said. "Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table." matt 15: 22 - 23

You forgot to include verses 24 - 27 of Matthew 15. Jesus pointed out that the gospel was to be given first to the Jews. The woman understood Jesus implication and was willing to settle for "crumbs". What did Jesus do next? If we follow your line that he was racist; we wouldn't have what verse 28 says"

Matt 15: 28 = "Then Jesus answered, Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted. And her daughter was healed that very hour".

If it was an issue of race, He would have not healed her daughter.

Here, we clearly see that a non black slave was worth two black slaves

Sahih Muslim 10:3901 = J[i]abir (Allah be pleased with him) reported: There came a slave and pledg- ed allegiance to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) on migration; he (the Holy Prophet) did not know that he was a slave. Then there came his master and demanded him back, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Sell him to me. And he bought him for two black slaves, and he did not afterwards take allegiance from anyone until he had asked him whether he was a slave (or a free man)[/i]

where is the racism or you want to start your usually tirades of desperation?

Where in that statement did I say he was racist - I said to Mohammad, he valued black slaves less as compared to non-black slaves since he traded two black slaves for a non-black slave. The fact is this - He was a slave owner; that alone doesn't speak well for someone who is suppose to be the best and perfect example to mankind.

Al-Tabari, Vol. 2, p. 11, p. 11 = Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks.

A lot of tales in Tabari are not considered authentic.

Ah, the "Not authentic" phrase to your rescue huh? If it was a statement you agreed with; then it will be authentic . I rest my case. The fact that it is a Hadith is enough for me.

Sahih Bukhari 9:87:161 = Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "I saw (in a dream) a black woman with unkempt hair going out of Medina and settling at Mahai'a, i.e., Al-Juhfa. I interpreted that as a symbol of epidemic of Medina being transferred to that place (Al-Juhfa)."

please can u point the racism here?

Where did I say he was racist in this statement? He likened a black woman with unkempt her to future epidemic to Mahai'a. That statement is degrading to say the least. It's like saying, black women with unkempt hair brings bad-luck.

There are two many Hadiths and Islamic sources to quote. It's hard to claim that Mohammad either didn't respect blacks or was racist.

No there are actually to many dishonest Islamophobes who resort to quoting wikiislam and making allegations that are applies more to the christianity!

That is your known strategy, to discredit Christianity and justify Mohammad actions - as if that answers the questions. We quote Muslim sources saying:

1. Mohammad struck his child bride in her chest and it caused her great pain as a result, he was violent: Muslims like you ignore the question and talk about the crusades
2. Mohammad said it is alright for muslims to marry up to 4 wives but he excluded himself from this rule and prevented his son-in-law from marrying another wife because his daughter who was his wife complained about it.

The fact is simple, if you state otherwise - you will betray your religion. So you rather justify whatever actions for religious reasons.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood.

Here is Allah saying otherwise:

Ye (muslims) are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (Surah 3:110)

Here is Allah distinguishing and calling non-muslims the worst of creatures:

Those who disbelieve from among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (Surah 98:6)

You keep shooting yourself in the foot

^^ You're daft as a brush! Your long posts usually spoil the fun.

harbiola1: ^^ You're daft as a brush! Your long posts usually spoil the fun.

More than daft

cloudstar: Bros,that is not what the Quran said.The Quran said Muslims are the best of people because they are Muslims & believe in Allah.Stop adding salt and pepper to secularize the Surah.The second part of the Surah confirmed that some Jew & Christians have faith;so this is not an issue about faith or monotheism as Jews & Christians believe in One God.

A Change of username doesn't signify an increase of IQ.
I hate debating someone with a closed heart.You will never admit you are wrong.You copied things from wikiislam and after giving you the explanations,you can't admit it because those points aren't from your brain so you can't defend them.
Allah says in Surah Al-Imran 3:110 -You [true believers in Islâmic Monotheism,and real followers of Prophet Muhammad SAW and his Sunnah] are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind;You enjoin Al-Ma'rûf (i.e. Islâmic Monotheism and all that Islâm has ordained) and forbid Al- Munkar (polytheism,disbelief and all that Islâm has forbidden) and you believe in Allâh.And had the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) believed,it would have been better for them;among them are some who have faith,but most of them are Al- Fâsiqûn (disobedient to Allâh -and rebellious against Allâh's Command).
What makes muslims the best of peoples ever evolved? They forbid what's wrong and enjoin what's right(Laws of the Quran) and believe in Allah.
Do Jews and Christians enjoin what's right and forbids what's wrong? NO
! Some Jews failed in keeping the obligation of the torah while some christians failed in keeping the obligation of the Injeel.

Some Jews and Christians have faith(keeping the laws),that's correct but can't you read where Allah says if they have believed,it would have been better for them.Believe in what? The prophethood of Muhammad(pbuh).
If Jews and Christians enjoin what's good and forbids what's wrong and believe in the prophethood of Muhammad(pbuh).They will also be among the best of peoples ever evolved.
Is it hard to understand?
If a muslim failed to enjoin what's right and forbid what's wrong,then he isn't among the best of peoples.

cloudstar: So,you know better than Allah that said non-muslims are the worst of creatures abi? The Quran claims to be very clear and anyone can understand it.So,why didn't Allah make himself clear? Why didn't he say Muslims, Christians and Jews are the best of peoples? You are here putting words in Allah's mouth.

Your problem is a conc. one.The same silly thing you always repeat ''You know better than Allah''.Are you this daft?
Muslims are the best of peoples because they enjoin what's good and forbids what's bad,believe in Allah and his Messenger(pbuh).
Jews believe in Musa(pbuh),but they rejected Isa(pbuh)
and failed in obligation of Torah.
Christians believe in Isa(pbuh),but they rejected Muhammad(pbuh) and failed in obligation of the Injeel.
Muslims believe in Musa(pbuh),Isa(pbuh) and Muhammad(pbuh)
and enjoin what's right and forbid what's wrong.
So muslims are best of peoples,
Jews like Abdullah Bin Salam(ra) that kept the laws of the Torah and later believed in prophet Muhammad(pbuh)was among the best of peoples.

People of the Scripture(Jews and christians) that rejected faith are worst of creatures.

cloudstar: That makes sense, what doesn't make sense is for Allah to HATE people that don't have faith in him and deliberately mislead them.
Surah 36:7-10=Certainly the word has proved true of most of them,so they do not believe.Surely We have placed chains on their necks,and these reach up to their chins,so they have their heads raised aloft. And We have made before them a barrier and a barrier behind them, then We have covered them over so that they do not see.And it is alike to them whether you warn them or warn them not:they do not believe.
How can "God" prevent disbelievers from believing in him;isn't "God" supposed to make a way for them to come to him? Na wa for Allah oh!

Allah doesn't prevent disbelievers from believing in him,he gave them a choice to choose between guidance and error.
Allah says in the glorious Quran in
Surah Ash-Shams 91:9-10 -Indeed he succeeds who purifies his ownself.
And indeed he fails who corrupts his ownself.

Surah Yunus 10:44 -Truly! Allah wrongs not mankind in aught;but mankind wrong themselves.
So,Allah has shown people what's good and bad(Surah Ash-Shams 91;8 )
The disbelievers chose the path of error by rejecting faith,Allah's signs and committing great sins on earth.
The more sins you committed,the more astray you are.

But does the bible has anything better?
John 12:40 (KJV) -He hath blinded their eyes,and hardened their heart;that they should not see with their eyes,nor understand with their heart and be converted,and I should heal them.

John 9:31 (KJV) -Now we know that God heareth not sinners:but if any man be a worshipper of God,and doeth his will,him he heareth.Why won't ''God'' hear sinners out?

cloudstar: An employer is NOT GOD for heavens sake bros.You can't compare the character of God to that of an employer.

That's an analogy,if an hardworking employee is beloved to his employer than an idle employee though both have the same certificate.Why won't a believer be beloved to his creator than a disbeliever though both are created equally? Is it hard to comprehend?

cloudstar: WOW!.So animals glorify and praise Allah.So animals are Muslims too .You guys will kill me with laugh?

When the bible can't tell you the purpose of your existence on earth,how will it tells you what animals do?

cloudstar: Again,Allah should be able to better express himself if he meant what you are saying.In so many worlds;you have said the same thing - If one doesn't believe in Allah,he is less than an animal.So,if you neighbor teenager who for the sake of explanation happens to be a Christian was drowning in a pool and a goat was drowning as well - by your explanation,Allah will save the goats life and leave the teenager to perish abi? What a god!

The same silly excuse,animals don't have freewill.A man can still think and repents,so Allah will save the teenager.

cloudstar: Why didn't you tackle the verses I mentioned.If we are all equal in Allah's eyes as you want us to believe why can't Allah's character be the same irrespective of one's faith.Should a non-muslim be considered less than a goat or a dog because he doesn't believe in Allah or because he is not a muslim?

It's obvious you can't comprehend all what's written up there.We are created equally irrespective of the color or race.The verse of Surah Al-Hujurat 49:13 is very clear on that.But some men accepted faith and others rejected it.
So the believers are beloved to Allah than disbelievers.Why? Not because of their race nor color,but because of faith and piety and prophet Muhammad(pbuh)'s last sermon also says the same.I don't have time to waste with someone that can't reason.

cloudstar: If Mohammad treated all men equal,why did he own and sell slaves?

Al-Bukhari Volume 3,Book 34,Number 351:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah:

A man decided that a slave of his would be manumitted after his death and later on he was in need of money,so the Prophet took the slave and said,"Who will buy this slave from me?" Nu'aim bin 'Abdullah bought him for such and such price and the Prophet gave him the slave

If the slave has faith,he will be freed and equal in faith with Muhammad(pbuh).

cloudstar: Here is Allah transforming Jews in Swines and Pigs

Surah 5:60 = "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath,those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine,those who worshipped evil;-these are (many times) worse in rank,and far more astray from the even path!"

That shows the true quality of a Creator.
He creates what he wills,Allah is not anybody's dad or uncle in the village that has a limited power.Allah has power of over all things.
Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah Al-Imran 3:189 -And to Allâh belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth,and Allâh has power over all things.

Surah Ibrahim 14:19 -Do you not see that Allâh has created the heavens and the earth with truth? If He will,He can remove you and bring (in your place) a new creation!If Allah wills,he could remove mankind and bring a new creation.
Allahu Akbar!!!! Allahu Akbar!!!! Allahu Akbar!!!!

cloudstar: Can you explain to me,how can Allah who created everyone will decide to turn some of his creations in swines and pigs just because they don't believe in him.

He's the creator and has power of his creatures.Can you explain to me why ''God'' has to transform Nebuchadnezzar to a beast?
Daniel 4:33 (KJV) -The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar:and he was driven from men,and did eat grass as oxen,and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers,and his nails like birds' claws.

cloudstar: Surah 2:65 = And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath:We said to them:"Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

Here,Allah transforms the Jews into apes because they didn't observe the Sabbath. Can you please explain why Allah will do something like this.Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath,does that mean Jesus will be transformed into an ape as well?

They transgress Allah's boundaries,but you forgot 'Jesus' and his disciples were stealing corns from a farm that doesn't belong to them?[Matthew 12:1-4].If everyone should emulate this biblical 'Jesus' in this,then the world will no know peace for a second.

cloudstar: (Surah 3:32) Say: "Obey Allah and His Messenger":But if they turn back,Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.So,if you don't believe in Allah, he hates you.
How can the 'Almighty God' hate me because I don't believe in him? God hates sin, He doesn't hate people.

It's very clear that Allah is picky on who he chooses to love and hate based on their faith. I honestly pity his subjects

Allah hates the sin in you,he didn't hate you because of your race or color.Allah doesn't love Muhammad(pbuh) because he was an arab,rather he loved him because of his piety and good deeds.
I can't be repeating the same thing again,I will leave you with this.
Imam Ali(ra) said:I have never argued with an ignorant fool and won;nor have I argued with a rational person and lost.
Bye.

cloudstar: vedaxcool



So, you ignored the Surahs I quoted and decided to cherry pick my words. My mistake, [size=18pt]Islam is not a race and muslims are not race. [/size] Can you please explain:

Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (Surah 3:110)

Those who disbelieve from among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (Surah 98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (Surah 8:55)

If Allah loves everyone equally, why does describe non-muslims as the worst of creatures and muslims as the best of peoples?



I have been called/termed worst! . I wear it with pride.



That is what you are good at, ignoring the questions and running off in another direction .

lol, what other mistakes have you made?

suddenly we are no longer talking about races but religion, Allah regards people every races as being equal, as Muhammad pbuh said and I repeat:

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood.

Now either you post according to what the thread is about which is Islam and racism or you keep finding every ignorance to toss against Islam!

Allah does not love muslims who transgress the bounds he has set, even muslims must strive to gain the love of Allah, what we stated is clearly in the sight of Allah all people, black, white, brown, red etc are equal. if you badly need Allah love, you can try the following

http://amuslimsistermaria200327./2010/04/23/17-qualities-that-allah-loves/


unless u remain unable to understand the difference between a race and an adherent of a religion u might end up repeating what you wrote!

the verses you wrote compared to how Jesus interacts with people who in your words he is supposed to love equally, is far sublime:

[b]Jesus judges the nations. 25:31-46

Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41



Mark


Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11

Jesus initially refuses to cast out a devil from a Syrophoenician (non-Jewish) woman's daughter, calling the woman a "dog". After much pleading, he finally agrees to cast out the devil. 7:27

Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16

Luke

Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9

John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17

Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15

"He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me." If you don't like what Pat Robertson says (or any other Christian), then you don't like Jesus, and if you don't like Jesus, you don't like God. 10:16

Jesus says, "He that is not with me is against me." 11:23

Those who "blaspheme against the Holy Ghost" will never be forgiven. 12:10

God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47

According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30

Jesus also believes the story about Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32

In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:12-2[/b]7

cloudstar:



It wasn't me that "said" anything. I quoted the Hadiths and Quran. Muslims are favored and are considered the best of people when it comes to non-muslims. So, whether it be a Shitte or Sunni, Allah consider them greater and better than non-muslims. Again, I didn't say that; it is stated in your Quran.



That the 12 rulers will be from his own tribe is favorism over other tribes in Arabia. He wanted to keep the succession of ruling in his own tribe. Ali wasn't from his tribe. As you are aware, this is one of the reason that caused the deep division between the Sunnis and Shias/Shittes. How many wars have been fought between Muslims for this single fact?

Lol u keep validating your ignorance, u quoted a hadith that speaks into the future about 12 leaders of muslims being from the Quraysh tribe, u turn around a said, he insisted, when he actually was Foretelling the future, even a child born yesterday would tell you it is prediction,

A prediction (Latin præ-, "before," and dicere, "to say" or forecast is a statement about the way things will happen in the future, often but not always based on experience or knowledge.

cloudstar:
You should be reminded that the 1st king Saul was from a different tribe than Judah. So, it's not a matter of tribe. And yes, David committed several sins and God punished him for it but unlike Saul, he repented. Compare that to Allah who deliberately mis-leads believers.

let's read the statement again,

Jesus will be a member of the tribe of Judah. Prophecy: Genesis 49:10. Fulfilled: Luke 3:33.

let's repeat your allegation, who ever said the above placed the tribe of juda over all other tribes of Israel and other race,

Jesus will be from the lineage of King David. Prophecy: Jeremiah 23:5. Fulfilled: Matthew 1:6.

Here we see that David lineage (incidentally in the lineage there are many murderers and Inbreeding abominations) placed over every other family and groups in Israel.

the question remain why was God in the verses above favouring Juda over other tribe? and the lineage of David over other family lineage?
quite simple question that does not need prevarications!

cloudstar:
No kidding, Wasn't Ali more qualified than any other Muslim and on several occassions saved Mohammad's life several times? Why didn't Allah consider Ali?

I can't make sense of your question! Are we talking of succession or racism? this is quite pathetic!

cloudstar:
Really!. The greatest story of Mohammad's discrimination and double standards is reflected in his statement: "Succession after me should be vested only in Quraish". It appears you should read your Hadith more, I will quote the following:

Al-Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 704-705: Narrated Muhammad bin Jubair bin Mut'im:

That while he was with a delegation from Quraish to Muawiya, the latter heard the news that 'Abdullah bin 'Amr bin Al-'As said that there would be a king from the tribe of Qahtan. On that Muawiya became angry, got up and then praised Allah as He deserved, and said, "Now then, I have heard that some men amongst you narrate things which are neither in the Holy Book, nor have been told by Allah's Apostle. Those men are the ignorant amongst you. Beware of such hopes as make the people go astray, for I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'Authority of ruling will remain with Quraish, and whoever bears hostility to them, Allah will destroy him as long as they abide by the laws of the religion.' "

Narrated Ibn Umar:

The Prophet said, "Authority of ruling will remain with Quraish, even if only two of them remained."

It only shows you don't read your Hadiths and display lack of knowledge when it comes to Islam history on this subject.

MOVING FORWARD: Muhammad's confederates, who came from outside Quraish, were his best supporters during his calling. Sa'd Ibn Ubadah was first on the list of Muhammad's successors because he received him at Medina, and called Muhammad's people to accept and support him. Had it not been for Sa'd, Muhammad's calling would have totally failed. Despite that, Muhammad ordered the succession to stay in his Quraish tribe. Although the people of Quraish persecuted him and declared war against him, he gave them, not his allies (the Ansars), the right to succeed him.

Here we read again:

Al-Bukhari Volume 9, Book 89, Number 254: Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "This matter (caliphate) will remain with the Quraish even if only two of them were still existing."

I can quote more hadiths but it's clear that he wanted his tribe to rule only. It pokes a hole in your explanation bros

A prediction (Latin præ-, "before," and dicere, "to say" or forecast is a statement about the way things will happen in the future, ...

which remains similar to these statements,

Jesus will be a member of the tribe of Judah. Prophecy: Genesis 49:10. Fulfilled: Luke 3:33.
Jesus will be from the lineage of King David. Prophecy: Jeremiah 23:5. Fulfilled: Matthew 1:6.

cloudstar:
I guess the "racist" Jesus was "racist" enough to heal her daughter - hmmmmm!. Perhaps Mohammad can learn a thing or two

Atleast he agrees those comments attributed to Jesus are clearly racist!

cloudstar:
As always, you have to bring in the Bible to clarify the Islamic text, as if they can't exist without the Bible. No one is denying the hadith is talking about obeying your ruler irrespective of his color. The issue is the description of the "black ruler" in the hadith. Why couldn't Mo just say - "Hey guys, you can obey your ruler irrespective of his skin color or even if he is black. Attributing a black's man head to that of a raisin is at best belittling and insulting.

As usual you whine and cry when one points to the obvious failings of the bible in which neither Jesus demanded the equality , I state my earlier, a statement which demands every Muslim to respects his leader even if he is black became racist remains baffling indeed!

cloudstar:
A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly."Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "[size=18pt]It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs.[/size]" Yes it is, Lord," she said. "Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table." matt 15: 22 - 23

You forgot to include verses 24 - 27 of Matthew 15. Jesus pointed out that the gospel was to be given first to the Jews. The woman understood Jesus implication and was willing to settle for "crumbs". What did Jesus do next? If we follow your line that he was racist; we wouldn't have what verse 28 says"

Matt 15: 28 = "Then Jesus answered, Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted. And her daughter was healed that very hour".

If it was an issue of race, He would have not healed her daughter.

It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs. if referring to people other than yours as dogs isn't racism then i wonder what is! Even the sheer wickedness in display in the above story is enough to make anybody puke!

cloudstar:
Where in that statement did I say he was racist [s]- I said to Mohammad, he valued black slaves less as compared to non-black slaves since he traded two black slaves for a non-black slave. The fact is this - He was a slave owner; that alone doesn't speak well for someone who is suppose to be the best and perfect example to mankind.[/s]

Since u don't know what u are talking about, we will leave u to have some rest!

cloudstar:
Ah, the "Not authentic" phrase to your rescue huh? If it was a statement you agreed with; then it will be authentic . I rest my case. The fact that it is a Hadith is enough for me.

The fact that Gospel of Barnabas is a gospel is enough for me, I rest my case!

cloudstar:
Where did I say he was racist in this statement? [s]He likened a black woman with unkempt her to future epidemic to Mahai'a. That statement is degrading to say the least. It's like saying, black women with unkempt hair brings bad-luck.
[/s]

Good, Islam does not promote racism, the hadith speaks of a Dream!

cloudstar:
[s]That is your known strategy, to discredit Christianity and justify Mohammad actions - as if that answers the questions. We quote Muslim sources saying:

1. Mohammad struck his child bride in her chest and it caused her great pain as a result, he was violent: Muslims like you ignore the question and talk about the crusades
2. Mohammad said it is alright for muslims to marry up to 4 wives but he excluded himself from this rule and prevented his son-in-law from marrying another wife because his daughter who was his wife complained about it.

The fact is simple, if you state otherwise - you will betray your religion. So you rather justify whatever actions for religious reasons.
[/s]

me a river

cloudstar:
Here is Allah saying otherwise:

Ye (muslims) are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (Surah 3:110)

Here is Allah distinguishing and calling non-muslims the worst of creatures:

Those who disbelieve from among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (Surah 98:6)

You keep shooting yourself in the foot

repeating the same point twice only shows your desperation,

cloudstar: My mistake, [size=18pt]Islam is not a race and muslims are not race. [/size]

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood

quraish were black people so the prophet [pbuh], The following is reported on the authority of the famous Companion of the prophet, Anas ibn Malik:so

The Messenger of Allah… was of medium stature, neither tall nor short, of a goodly build. His hair was neither curly nor completely straight. He had a dark brown (asmar) complexion and when he walked he leant forward [walking briskly].what you think now, do you think anis bin malik is lying ot tellin true?

This report is important for our discussion, not only because Abd al-Mutalib and his ten black sons were pure Arabs, but also because they are also the family of the Prophet, Abd al-Mutalib being his paternal grandfather.

The ten lordly sons of Abd al-Mutalib were deep black (dalham) in colour and big/tall (dukhm).

When Amir b. al-Tufayl saw them circumambulating (the Kaaba) like dark camels, he said, “With such men as these is the custody of the Kaaba preserved.”

Abd Allah ibn Abbas was very black and tall. Those of Abu Talibs’s family, who are the most noble of men, are dark skinned, black and tall (sud).”


The Syrian scholar and historian al-Dhahabī (d. 1348) too reported that Abd Allah ibn Abbas, Prophet Muhammad’s first cousin, and his son, Alī ibn AbdAllah, were “very dark-skinned.”

Alī ibn Abu Talib, first cousin of the Prophet and future fourth caliph, is described by al-Suyuti and others as “husky, bald…pot-bellied, large-bearded…and jet-black (shadīd al-udma).”

Ali’s son, Abu Jaffa , according to Bin Sad’s (d. 845), described Ali thusly: “He was a black-skinned man with big, heavy eyes, pot-bellied, bald, and kind of short.” does this proves a lot were faked after prophet mohamed [pbuh], seek right knowledge read correct books and you will see wonders and a lot of lies too.read more
http://asmariy..com/2011/05/was-prophet-muhammad-black-or-caucasian.html

I heard the same Suyiti came to yorubaland and Bornu in his time, for knowledge,na our story this people spread.

cinjaar:
quraish were black people so the prophet [pbuh], The following is reported on the authority of the famous Companion of the prophet, Anas ibn Malik:so

The Messenger of Allah… was of medium stature, neither tall nor short, of a goodly build. His hair was neither curly nor completely straight. He had a dark brown (asmar) complexion and when he walked he leant forward [walking briskly].what you think now, do you think anis bin malik is lying ot tellin true?

This report is important for our discussion, not only because Abd al-Mutalib and his ten black sons were pure Arabs, but also because they are also the family of the Prophet, Abd al-Mutalib being his paternal grandfather.

The ten lordly sons of Abd al-Mutalib were deep black (dalham) in colour and big/tall (dukhm).

When Amir b. al-Tufayl saw them circumambulating (the Kaaba) like dark camels, he said, “With such men as these is the custody of the Kaaba preserved.”

Abd Allah ibn Abbas was very black and tall. Those of Abu Talibs’s family, who are the most noble of men, are dark skinned, black and tall (sud).”


The Syrian scholar and historian al-Dhahabī (d. 1348) too reported that Abd Allah ibn Abbas, Prophet Muhammad’s first cousin, and his son, Alī ibn AbdAllah, were “very dark-skinned.”

Alī ibn Abu Talib, first cousin of the Prophet and future fourth caliph, is described by al-Suyuti and others as “husky, bald…pot-bellied, large-bearded…and jet-black (shadīd al-udma).”

Ali’s son, Abu Jaffa , according to Bin Sad’s (d. 845), described Ali thusly: “He was a black-skinned man with big, heavy eyes, pot-bellied, bald, and kind of short.” does this proves a lot were faked after prophet mohamed [pbuh], seek right knowledge read correct books and you will see wonders and a lot of lies too.read more
http://asmariy..com/2011/05/was-prophet-muhammad-black-or-caucasian.html

I don talk am b4. D Muslims must always find a reason to defend d racist comment their prophet made but that doesn't change the fact that YR RELIGION SEES U AS INFERIOR N D SPAWN OF THE DEVIL

Go research on who is Bilal R.A. then come back and say this rubbish