What's All The Noise About Growing Afro-chinese Economic Relations?

Lately China has been making great economic inroads into Africa. While many Africans see a win-win situation with the Chinese who appear to talk business and DO business, leaving politics alone, others are skeptical. China's "business outside politics policy" is a sharp contrast to the Euro-American model: "let's talk politics, then do business" which has left Africa in the rut for centuries. It is no surprise that many of the nay-sayers are European and American who might very well have reasons to fear China's phenomenal economic expansions. Do you think Africa's shift in focus toward the East is a good thing?

For more on the subject, and views already expressed from around the world, read the BBC piece on the subject: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5094244.stm

So peeps, what do you think?

I think it is a really great thing --economically. China seems ready and willing to help 3rd world countries get on their feet.

I am some what worried because in China -- African students are some what segregated and under threat because of the fear that they are infecting Chinese people with Aids. But since even Libya in Africa restricts Black Africans from entering their country because of the fear of Aids. I am not so sure we can blame the Chinese for doing it there.

Drusilla, I will want 2 question the source of your information, about black Africans infecting Chinese people with HIV, by the way how does that relate to the relationship economic between China and African Countries

Anyways, I think this will be a symbiotic relationship. The world has moved on from the exploitative relationships that was the hallmark of the kind of alliance that Africa had with the West or that the United Stats has with other countries. Remember Iraq? With the emergence of China as the next economic world power, African countries stand to benefit a lot from any such Economic alliance. The problem that we should be worried about is the perennnial recycling of criminals who end up as leaders of African states.

Enigma67,

No. I did not say it was true that the Africans were infecting the Chinese with Aids.

I talked about the fear of Africans infecting Chinese with AIDS.

The Chinese have been attacking African students in China for quite a long time. It is quite famous:

Go here to read about it.

The Nanjing Anti-African protests were mass demonstrations and riots against African students in Nanjing, China, which lasted from December 1988, to the following January.

As well as resentment about the larger stipends given to African students, hostility from Chinese students towards Africans also flared up when there was contact between African men and Chinese women. In an incident in Shanghai in 1979, African students were attacked after playing loud music and consorting with Chinese women. These clashes became more common during the 1980s and sometimes led to arrests and deportations of African students. Cultural differences in dating habits added to the tensions - whereas Chinese students were expected to know each other for some time before dating, African students often asked strangers to date.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Anti-African_protests


Here is a direct story about the connection between the riots and their fear of African students having AIDS

Negative images of foreign sexuality, to a lesser extent, have contributed to the racialization of encounters between African and Chinese students, and have played a role in the spread of collective anxieties about STDs (Dikötter 1997). On popular levels, the myth of 'international syphilis' (guoji meidu) has contrasted the pure blood of Chinese people to the polluted blood of outsiders, said to have become immune to syphilis after centuries of sexual promiscuity. Official discourse and popular culture have also explained AIDS as an evil from abroad, and prostitutes who offered their service to foreigners were singled out for severe punishment in the late 1980s. This official line of thought elicited a law on the mandatory testing of all foreign residents; African students in particular have been singled out for the AIDS test.

http://cio.ceu.hu/courses/CIO/modules/Module08Dikoetter/print.html

The world has moved on from the exploitative relationships that was the hallmark of the kind of alliance that Africa had with the West or that the United Stats has with other countries.

Enigma67,

What disney channel are some Africans watching?

I want to watch that channel. The rest of us live in the real world.

Where exploitation of Africa has never stopped.

By the way, would you now like to see the stories of how Russians are starting to really hate Africans bringing them AIDS (or so they think)?

We might as well get this out of the way now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1524720.stm

Then we can all go back to the Disney Channel and pretend that everything is A-OK for Africans in this world.

Enigma67,

I also have scotland, england, arab countries and many more countries where Africans are sometimes being physically attacked because the people think Africans are bringing them AIDS.

Just let me know, buddy and their all yours.

I know why some Africans might prefer the Disney Channel.

Can we get back to the real topic of this thread please? This is not a racism or segregation thread, we are supposed to be talking about the economic value of Chinese investment in Africa not HIV or the lynching of Africans around the world. Thank you.

Alanrinjo,

Your right just because I think you are walking death, doesn't mean that I can not make money off you.

It was kinda of sad that the machetes used to kill the people in Rwanda were bought for 15 cents each from China but the Chinese just sell the weapons, they did not make the war. Their not at fault for what Africans do with what they sell to them.

As I said earlier, economically, the Chinese are trying to connect with third world countries. So this is their non-political policy with Africa.

My screen name is Alarinjo not alanrinjo thank you.

alarinjo:

My screen name is Alarinjo not alanrinjo thank you.

HEHEHE are you British or Yoruba?

Anywayz back to the topic, When a chinese man offers you something at no cost, you would need to review that thing 1000 times. A chinese man is not really a fan of a win-win situation especially in business

Alarinjo,

Please accept my apology. I did not mean to butcher your name. I apologize.

Kazey,

I think the Chinese indifference to African politics could be a big help to African economies.

True word Kazey! And while I think of myself as Nigerian first, I am ethnically Yoruba   Anywho, what you said resonates with events that happened in Lagos some months ago when local traders at Mushin protested the presence of Chinese traders who were actually beginning to open kiosks in the local markets selling cheap goods which made "market" bad for local traders selling authentic but obviously more expensive goods.

On a semi larger scale, there are now at least two China towns in Lagos, but reactions by Nigerians have been mixed. While some see the extra competition as healthy, others think the Chinese are just flooding the market with cheap goods.

On the larger scale though, what do u think about such massive scale deals as selling the Chinese oil in exchange for massive infrastructural programs like the building of railroads and power stations etc? Zimbabwe is getting a couple new power plants in exchange for the chrome which they are selling to the Chinese? Do you think we could pull it off with smart leaders?

Alarinjo,

Even in America they had to adapt to the cheap Chinese goods. However we consider stuff to be disposable more than to be kept forever. We change every thing all the time. We change even big items like cars, furniture etc, rather frequently.

CA's may not view it as so easy to keep rebuying a cheap item over and over again.

alarinjo:

On the larger scale though, what do u think about such massive scale deals as selling the Chinese oil in exchange for massive infrastructural programs like the building of railroads and power stations etc? Zimbabwe is getting a couple new power plants in exchange for the chrome which they are selling to the Chinese? Do you think we could pull it off with smart leaders?

When you say something like that, I come to think of A Chinese Business man offering to build rail-networks for free and keeping all the natural resources he comes upon during construction. We need to be very careful in analysing Chinese deals.

Kazey, we certainly need to be careful. But I can't help thinking that suggesting that the Chinese will just stumble on raw materials and smuggle them out of the country under our very noses is ermmm, well, maybe a little farfetched

I mean, even the workers who will be doing the manual labor will be Africans so they'd have to be incredibly stealthy to sneak that one past us.

However, I know what you mean about the Asian viscousness in the Field of business. If the Chinese are anything like the Lebanese and Indians, then we really need to keep our noses in their faces!

I guess what I am wondering is, do u think that the Chinese principle of business outside politics is a better or worse option to the European and American style where political involvement is a prerequisite to business? I mean, they won't even let us have access to the global markets, but in the case of the Chinese it  appears, at least, that we are the ones dictating costs and a fair chunk of the terms of trade.

BTW are you British or Nigerian 

alarinjo:

BTW are you British or Nigerian

Chai i be African black kparaku, and a proud naija in fact and factual, with a thick yoruba blood flowing through my veins. Abi o brother I ask you the same question because, na yoruba and british who are so freaky freaky about manners and proper use of wordings and name spellings etc

Abi o brother I ask you the same question because, na yoruba and british who are so freaky freaky about manners and proper use of wordings and name spellings etc

Kazey. LOL, you are too funny. I guess you do have a point there.

So would you rather do business with the Europeans/Americans than the Asians?

alarinjo:

So would you rather do business with the Europeans/Americans than the Asians?

I do business with Asians, btu I would prefer Europeans or Americans.

Guess its like being between a rock and a hard place. The Asians might be vicious business men, but the Euro-Americans are just plain fraudsters! I mean, for example, how can African farmers gain access to the global economy if our European and American "trading partners" continue to put up insurmountable road blocks, e.g. subsidization of American/European farmers such that African farmers cannot cope with their prices?

With the Asians at least it seems to be "money for hand, back for ground"

alarinjo:

how can African farmers gain access to the global economy if our European and American "trading partners" continue to put up insurmountable road blocks, e.g. subsidization of American/European farmers such that African farmers cannot cope with their prices?

Why shouldn't they subsidize it for their own people?

I agree with what Alarinjo and Kazey are saying here.
We really, really need to watch out with our business deals with the Chinese. There is, afterall, no such thing as a free lunch and neither should anyone expect such. China knows what it wants from Nigeria, and due to the political structures in Africa, anyone may come and do as they please.
Drusilla said something about America adjusting to cheap Chinese imports, well the US has a much stronger economic structure than Nigeria and even then, I am sure that very strict quotas are imposed which must not be exceeded. A salient example(though outside the US) was the recent outright rejection of Chinese garments by the EU as the quota had been exceeded.
It is important that local trade is not undermined by the flooding of the clothes market by an uncontrolled influx of cheap goods cos at the end of the day Nigerians would be the ones to loose out.
Both local industry and external trade are essential for economic growth. The former must be safeguarded and nurtured, the latter must be conducted with ingenuity, in order to ensure gain rather than loss.
And one other thing, refering to what Drusilla said about Nigerian students being harassed continually in China and elsewhere, well, I am not surprised.
Outside of Africa, Nigerians and black Africans as a whole are depicted in the worst possible light, the perceptions gained as a result, once mingled with latent xenophobia can only yield the inevitable.
Some actually think that wild animals share the streets with people in Africa.
Which is quite a shame considering that black Africans are quite welcoming to foreigners in our midst.
Well that has always been our undoing in the past and even right now.

@Kazey

Why shouldn't they subsidize it for their own people?

lol, you're just bent on making this difficult for me abi? Ok, why shouldn't the Chinese reap us off too? Or are you saying you prefer to be ripped off by the whites rather than the Asians?

Seriously though, what should we do, how can a struggling Africa surmount all these economic problems? Me, I think there will always be risks in business, Chinese or Euro-American, its a matter of choosing the frog which has eggs (you be Yoruba man abi? translate that adage) so which of the two "frogs" should we go for?

@ Madira: Very nice post. What you said about the textile industry has had so much salience to the Nigerian economy.

A salient example(though outside the US) was the recent outright rejection of Chinese garments by the EU as the quota had been exceeded.
It is important that local trade is not undermined by the flooding of the clothes market by an uncontrolled influx of cheap goods because at the end of the day Nigerians would be the ones to loose out.

Nigeria has already witnessed the regretable effects of unchecked textile imports from Asia and elsewhere. We once had a thriving textile industry boasting several factories, which of course provided jobs to thousands of Nigerians, but all these have been run to the ground by unbridled Asian imports of fabrics such as ankara (wax/print) etc. Before you know it, they will even be producing adire and, heaven forbid, but they might end up spoiling the thriving indigenous adire/kampala industry in places like Abeokuta and Oyo. Sad thing is that the underlying constant with all these Chinese goods is their inferior quality. Unfortunately the poor masses will probably patronize the cheaper but inferior goods to the authentic, more expensive ones. Only the rich and elite few will go for the high quality products no matter how expensive.

N.B. Did you know that you can buy Agege bread in New York? Yes, Agege (spelt Agegge or something) made by the Asians. They are even duplicating our bread o! E gba mi!

I do remember one thing an Italian government official said when the issue of banning Chinese textiles in Italy came up. He said, "we complain that the Chinese are taking over the industry but it is not the Chinese who are at fault. It is we Italians who are at fault for not producing." I think we can take a cue from that.

Well said, Alanrinjo. We Nigerians need to buckle up and support our industries. Nothing can be compared to having your own. We wear these clothes, it is only fitting that our peeps benefit from it.
Which is why I am so proud of our film industry, it is all ours and is coming up rather nicely.
However, the other day, a lady I buy my films from told me that an Asian guy tried to buy some films from her and she told him to bounce as it was his intention to make copies of it and sell it on. I was astounded, and could not believe it.
Can u just imagine? We would not even think of doing such things to their own films (which we do watch) and they would not even buy them from us, and yet they have the nerve to try that with us.
Everyone protects that which is rightfully theirs and we should too. Agege bread eh? Well, what can you do but blame those who decide to buy it from them. Some of them are even trying to cook Nigerian food (I kid u not). Although am sure that no one will send them in that regard.

I hope it is only noise. I am not interested in trading with countries that will flood our market with cheap goods. What Nigeria needs to do is get markets open in developed countries. The goods in developed countries are just too expensive for the average Nigerian consumer to purchase, but our goods will be nice and cheap for them. That is the kind of situation that creates a nice large trade surplus.

Hey ! why we are still tearing our shirts and lining up our punches over Chinese versus Euro-American businessmen in Africa what is wrong with Africans invading Asia,Europe and America to strike mega deals ?

Almost in all our existence as a race we have depended on others to help us out of our quagmire and each time they have always reaped us off.

Where are others getting their wealth to invest in our land ? Can't we also generate our own wealth with our vast human and natural resources ?

I don't want Americans 
I don't want Europeans 
I don't want Chinese or Asians 

I want Africans to rise up for themselves and become independent so that they can also go and conquer other nations economically 

But that will only be possible if we first of all gather  all these criminals called African Leaders together, shoot them and then begin to re-orient ourselves as a people that we can do it, with or without help.Preferrably without help.

But that will only be possible if we first of all gather all these criminals called African Leaders together, shoot them and then begin to re-orient ourselves as a people that we can do it, with or without help.Preferrably without help

I concur. Who will bell the cat?

I hope it is only noise. I am not interested in trading with countries that will flood our market with cheap goods. What Nigeria needs to do is get markets open in developed countries. The goods in developed countries are just too expensive for the average Nigerian consumer to purchase, but our goods will be nice and cheap for them. That is the kind of situation that creates a nice large trade surplus.

I want Africans to rise up for themselves and become independent so that they can also go and conquer other nations economically

I wholeheartedly agree. Well, lets be fair, I think what is going on [at least what the African governments are saying] is that the deals being brokered now with the Chinese border more on infrastructural development and not the importation of finished goods [if I recall well, Nigeria has banned most of those imported products, especially fabric form Asia]. We all agree that we need to start producing, but without constant electricity, water, good roads etc, our industries cannot develop. Hence, bring in the Chinese who are ready to build these infrastructures in exchange for mineral resources e.g oil, chrome etc. which they are desperate for anyway. If this is truly the case we will be able to develop our own industries as well as control those industries. We wont have to import their cheap goods because we will be producing ours. The problem we have had with the Euro-Americans is that, they refuse to help us develop infrastructure because they know it will make us self dependent. They would rather continue to plunder our resources so that they can reward us with pittances in the form of AID etc etc. This is the cycle I think needs to be broken, and the Chinese-African alliances springing up may very well be the beginning of that economic revamping.

alarinjo:

I concur. Who will bell the cat?

who will bell the cat ke !
Gimme a gun a gas chamber and see what happens to criminals.  
I am not a Nazi or Hitler fan but these criminals are wicked,no be small !

Nigeria is a well known and very popular movie so I won't go in that or else the story won't end by tomorrow morning.
The other day I saw Idris Deby of extra poor and suffering Chad Republic riding in a huge Hummer Jeep.
Kai ! You need to take a look at that arid and dry land called Chad and Mr President has such a ride, probably bullet proof.

Let's not derail from the topic. More coments.

But my take is that we should not gloat over the presence of the Chinese in Africa. They may not interfere with our politics but that may be to our undoing.

African Leaders are naturally evil and wicked and it has taken the insistence of Europeans and Americans for them to exercise some restraints in their wicked actions.

The Chinese don't care because they are even accussed of human right abuses and of course, there is no demoncracy in China.

The Chinese will do business in Africa and not care if a man is being killed in their back yard. I don't think that is the best way to do business.

In these days of Health,Safety and Environment in the work place the Chinise no send you.
All they care is you do your work and they do not necessarily pay high wages because wages in China are quite low.That's what enables them to produce good cheaply.

So beware of the arrival of the Sino investor from the Far East

Well, funloving, of course all this anticipation for positive change is based on the sole premise that a new era or good and accountable leadership will begin in Africa. I think Ghana is already well on the track, and South Africa is also making great strides. To be honest, if we succeed in keeping out any of the ex-military leaders in the on-coming Nigerian presidential elections, I think Nigeria will have begun a new journey as well.

While you are right about the need for accountability in business I suggest that we do not give the Europeans and Americans too much credit for restraining our bad leaders. Quite the contrary, they have actually played very active roles in the corruption of our leaders, and any change of heart we might be witnessing from the West today is really ostensible.

I think the pressures put on Western governments by human rights watchers and activists, Nigerians/Africans playing a big role here, is what is finally making them to begin to tone down their open complicity in the corrupting of African leaders. Whatever the case, the West definitely deserves much less credit than you seem to have given them in your last post.

Gimme a gun a gas chamber and see what happens to criminals.
I am not a Nazi or Hitler fan but these criminals are wicked,no be small !

By all means, I would gladly have you exterminate all those bastards, but I'll be frank with you, you might have to purchase your weapons from the Chinese