maddock:

@biina
Did i say anything about gift of the spirit in my post? When i say gift i meant stuff like being a good athlete, a good singer, drummer etc. i mean normal stuff of life and not spiritual issues this time,ok. Take for instance guys like Kenny and D-One, alot of folks in Nigeria do not like them but you cant take it away from them that they revolutionalise the music industry. A lot of these haters wished they were in their shoes, but instead of getting close to be tutored they prefer "badbellying" them, and that was the direction i meant by my post.

I apologize, as it seems I took your use of the word 'gift' out of context, as the discussion was centered around the christian faith.
I do still disagree with your choice of the word 'gift' if what you meant is as written above. Gifts are not taught, they are given.

how did this thread manage to get to 12 pages?

paulipopo:

The teaching method and motive behind his teaching style (Part II)


The teaching method of Chris Oyakhilome is a very crafty and effective method. It involves the use of cunning and calculation because he knows when and how to speak to his audience in order to perfect his art of persuading them. The results are outstanding judging by the way his followers fiercely defend him even without justification.


The method involves four steps which are;


1. grabbing the attention of the audience

2. Enticing the audience with suspense

3. Motivating the audience

4. Suggesting an idea or opinion to the audience


To teach with this method you need to understand human thinking, attitudes and interests. His teaching method is designed to persuade people especially those with spiritual and psychological weaknesses (the desperate, fearful, insecure, ignorant, ego centric, deprived, greedy and selfish). This is especially seen by the fact that his messages always provoke an emotional and not a rational response from its listeners (propaganda) which is the ideal situation for implanting new ideas, philosophies or doctrines into a large number of people simultaneously.


The basic fact you should comprehend is that most people form opinions based on what they see and hear (observe) and not after thorough analysis. As a result they generally have limited perceptions of facts or truth which means new insights (which come from thorough analysis or intuition) appear to them as ‘revelation’ which in turn gives the impression that the one with such ‘revelation’ hears or receives new messages divinely.
Oyakhilome’s teaching method starts with an introduction to his intended message in which he explains the relevance and the need of the message to its listeners. For instance if his message is titled ‘how to make your faith work’ he will explain why you need to make your faith work and especially show what you might gain or miss by doing or not doing so. The idea behind doing this is to ‘sell’ the benefits of the message to the intended audience (especially viewers at home).  The so called benefits will naturally keep the viewer or listener glued to his message.


Then comes the main part which is to shield his intention from his audience, he achieves this by delving deep into the heart of the message. It is during this part that he quotes scriptures to justify some ideas he introduces or intends to introduce later in his ‘sermon’. During this part he might motivate his audience with mild praises by saying things like “I will never be broke in my life” which he would naturally ask his audience to chorus. He will equally assert inspirational speeches such as “no one can stop you, this is your season: it is your time”. This stage of his brainwashing covers the eyes of the listeners by inspiring them to the point of not knowing the exact message being taught. The ability to discern truth from fiction is greatly affected when people are distracted. That is exactly what happens when he motivates his audience.


But his real intention for motivating his audience is to encourage them to spend their money on his various merchandise (sow seeds, pay tithes, buy any of his customized products, support different aspects of his business such as partnership programmes among others). Chris oyakhilome knows that people only spend their money either due to necessity or motivation (pride of ownership, fear of loss, security and protection, convenience and comfort, desire for gain, emotional satisfaction) it becomes obvious that by motivating people to believe such things as divine health, prosperity especially financial prosperity, earthly domination, chris is trying to make his listeners ‘invest’ (sow seed, pay tithes and support his ministry –actually himself and his cohorts) in his so called work for God. Therefore money is the real reason behind his preaching style and it is obtained using false and deceptive means (propaganda, heresy) to persuade his listeners. However because brainwashing is used, another added benefit of his preaching method is self promotion and adulation from his followers. His followers will naturally feel refreshed after listening to his sermons and will naturally see him as the source of their refreshment.


The final stage of his teaching style is the implanting or suggestion of an idea or opinion that is anything but selfless. For instance chris would proclaim that a true born again Christian shouldn’t lack, experience sickness or misery because he/she is greater than his problems or the ‘people of the world’. This idea is powerful if it is accepted by the gullible listener because it makes him see him/herself as being superior in virtually every way to his problems (most of which are self inflicted any way) such as financial problems, illnesses, strife etc and to the so called 'people of the world '. Without realising it anyone believing this Joke is living in delusion.

With or without this claim if any proponent of word of faith falls ill or finds himself in hospital, in debt or misery, I hope chris oyakhilome will have some reasonable explanation to give and not blame it on lack of faith, sin or ill fortune. Obviously people of many faiths including unbelievers and atheists suffer and enjoy the same things (poverty or wealth, sickness or health, prosperity etc). Clearly 'faith' has nothing to do with all that.


End of part II


Part III will conclude with[b] my personal opinions on who a false prophet is and how chris oyakhilome fits the bill
[/b]

Though calling you a fool would somewhat well describe your person vis-a-vis the unempirical and empty epistle you wrote above, I resist the temptation of calling u one.

Instead of ranting aimlessly, I had expected you to use scriptures and precision. I had earlier advised you on the ''best'' way to go about your envy-provoked mission at ''exposing the Pastor's heresies''. How would u feel if someone posted on here that he saw your mother infront of a hotel with a guy and inferred that she's a prostitute? Would it be right for us to believe him, just because he saw her infront of the hotel?

That's exactly what you have done here. You want us to believe the Pastor only used some motivational stunts to deceive the church, hence ''he's a phoney'' just because YOU SAID IT?

Hello! the word of God is motivating. Pastor Chris is not just one of those Pastors who blame the devil whenever they preach and church members sleep off. Then ushers will be all over the place waking people up. Why should GOOD NEWS make people sleep off?

Your epistle was based on information fetched from your senses. Terrible! . We dont need your personal opinions and warped philosophy, even if you are a Professor Emeritus on Christian Religious Studies.

The crux of the matter is for you to prove the heresies  with the scriptures! Tell us precisely the scriptures the Pastor misinterpreted, and what the verses actually mean.

So much for a rabblerouser!

Hmmmm

I noticed the likes of Kunle, Sir John, Oga wey him wisdom na for Penny , etc have not contributed on this thread - The Many Lies of Jesus, to either lend support to the poster or otherwise.

Should we take their silence to mean: Yes the poster is one of us- the antagonists?

Mat 11:15 "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Mat 11:16 "But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions,
Mat 11:17 "and saying: ‘We played the flute for you, And you did not dance; We mourned to you, And you did not lament’.
Mat 11:18 "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon’.
Mat 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners’! But wisdom is justified by her children."

These things you are saying against the church and the children of God have also been said against Christ Jesus in many ways. Repent and put your gaze on Jesus. Stop fighting that which is good. Dont judge a man because you did not create him neither did you send him into this world. I plead with you to take up the word of God, spend your time blessing lives and not destroying them for the time is near. The fact that you are alive today is by the grace of God. Lay hold on eternal life and establish your place in God's kingdom. There is still so much to do to bless our world today. I pray your eyes will be opened to the Word of God and to the reality of the truth contained therein. Amen

@paulipopo

Thank God for you. I thought I was the only one that could decipher the false teachings of this man. in one of his teachings i remembered that he was trying to project cunningly that because he was born into a Pastor Home and he had strong Christian upbringing he had less problems in his life that most Christians have.

This is a doctrine from the pit of hell. You are right paulipopo he attracts people to himself instead Of Jesus. Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me. Most of our Church leaders are backsliden and they need to repent like a sinner.

The true calling of the Church is to Help the poor and the widow. The demon infested church rather engages in Show. The big buildings will be destroyed by fire. It is what you do with the Gospel by Changing a man's live from being a thief to a holy man.

@ BACKSLIDER

Your name said it all,End of Discussion.

How to identify a false prophet


I define a false prophet as anyone who proclaims himself a servant of God but whose works clearly betray his vocation in God’s vineyard. He would be someone who takes it upon himself to teach messages that are not from God, preach false doctrines or even deceive many with lying signs and wonders.


2 Peter 2:1-3 explains false prophets to be “people who introduce destructive heresies and deny the Master who has ransomed them (Jesus Christ)”……, “in their greed they will exploit you with fabrications”. Underline the following;

1. Introduce destructive heresies

2. Deny the Master who ransomed them (Jesus Christ)

3. Greedily exploit people with fabrications (lies including lying signs and wonders AKA stage managed miracles).


To start with the work of God in the very least is a vocation (work done for altruistic or humanitarian purposes rather than for income) but is more than that. It is a call to obey the voice of God in all ramifications of one’s life. Anyone can work in the Lord’s vineyard but the peak of serving God is proclaiming his word in our lives through our actions (not stealing, lying, fornicating or being involved in sexual immorality, evil ambitions, drunkenness, sloth, murder and a host of others). However there is the need to instruct, teach and implore the young (Titus 2:1-9) hence the reason we have elders in the faith (priests, pastors, bishops, deacons and others) whose duty is to encourage others in their walk with Christ and service to their fellow man. However not everyone can hold such esteemed positions as there are certain criteria required for such positions (1 Timothy 3: 1-13). These days we find a situation in which some people behave as if the call to serve God is their exclusive preserve and they make the most of this by delegating duties among the faithful in a very self serving way.


The first sign of a false prophet is with his introduction (by way of revelation) of destructive heresies. In Christianity there is a list of so many heresies that have been taught through out history, however in modern times the most influential of these have been word of faith and prosperity theologies. These teachings contradict the word of God in so many ways. For instance Christ asked “what shall it profit a man to gain the world yet lose his soul?” word of faith and prosperity theologies teach that poverty is of the devil and that every true believer (with faith) has no business with poverty. The danger in this is that so called Christians might begin to think that the pursuit of wealth is as important as their salvation which is not true. Christ taught us to store up treasures where neither moth nor thief could break or pilfer into. We are also faced with the problem of Christians being made to believe nonsensical teachings like


The second sign of a false prophet is through his denial of the Master (Jesus Christ). False prophets deny Jesus Christ by understating his importance in the lives of Christians. For instance Chris Oyakhilome has in times past emphasized the fact that Jesus Christ had to become born again by dying spiritually and physically in hell in order to redeem mankind from her sinfulness. This is despite the fact that most people become born again before receiving baptism whereas Jesus had his baptism before his crucifixion (assuming Jesus’ example is a model for all Christians). That notwithstanding the status of the Master is diminished if He is portrayed as one who sinned like all men not stating the fact that John 1 describes him as the Word made flesh. If Christ is the Word who was God and through him all things were made, can he possibly be as sinful as man himself needing redemption (since he had to become born again)?

More over the self proclaimed preacher is equated to Christ although in a subtle way. The preacher’s word is easily substituted with christ’s words. When Christ proclaims that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven even that a camel will easily pass through the eye of a niddle, the preacher implies that no true Christian has any business with poverty, thus making the love for riches a part of the ‘Christian faith’. The preacher states that we are meant to be successful (in material terms), Christ tells us to store up treasures for ourselves in heaven.


The third and final sign of a false prophet is with his use of greed induced fabrications. These are lies told to mislead the gullible or possibly God fearing people to part with their possessions. These lies include using stage managed miracles to create false hope for faithless and gullible people. Other lies that could be told include the use of false testimonies to mislead or deceive people into believing that God is a ‘miracle’ working God. The miracles Jesus Christ and his apostles worked were verifiable, if any so called miracles remain unverifiable especially when it is at the instance of the stage managers, then such miracles are fake and that is exactly what we have with ‘Christ’ Embassy.


Concluded

fyneguy:

Hmmmm

I noticed the likes of Kunle, Sir John, Oga wey him wisdom na for Penny , etc have not contributed on this thread - The Many Lies of Jesus, to either lend support to the poster or otherwise.

Should we take their silence to mean: Yes the poster is one of us- the antagonists?

I do not know the rational for including my name above or comparing me with atheist on this thread but i would strive to correct you in love. Firstly i am a strong new testament believing christian with the love of God in my heart and spirit. The fact that i point out lapses in the "church" does not in anyway suggest that i even remotely antagonize christianity, my grouse is with the several fasle doctrines and fallacies being preached by so called men of God today at the expense of the true gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, i propagate true christianity and i believe most churches have strayed away from the true gospel(this fact is quite glaring if you bother to read your bible at all) doctrines of men now prevade the church and i earnestly seek to reconcile the church to christ. I pray that God would use me as a vessel to bring the church back to him.

KunleOshob:

I do not know the rational for including my name above or comparing me with atheist on this thread but i would strive to correct you in love. Firstly i am a strong new testament believing christian with the love of God in my heart and spirit. The fact that i point out lapses in the "church" does not in anyway suggest that i even remotely antagonize christianity, my grouse is with the several fasle doctrines and fallacies being preached by so called men of God today at the expense of the true gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, i propagate true christianity and i believe most churches have strayed away from the true gospel(this fact is quite glaring if you bother to read your bible at all) doctrines of men now prevade the church and i earnestly seek to reconcile the church to christ. I pray that God would use me as a vessel to bring the church back to him.

what a difference a week makes in the life of brethren.  saint kunle, i am shocked you have the word love in your holier than  thou spirit.

in a world where your lovely god use only saint kunle and your kind only your friend obasanjo and his pdp theives will make your kind of heaven.  we are all going to be very happy.

KunleOshob:

I do not know the rational for including my name above or comparing me with atheist on this thread but[b] i would strive to correct you in love[/b]. Firstly i am a strong new testament believing christian with the love of God in my heart and spirit. The fact that i point out lapses in the "church" does not in anyway suggest that i even remotely antagonize christianity, my grouse is with the several fasle doctrines and fallacies being preached by so called men of God today at the expense of the true gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, i propagate true christianity and i believe most churches have strayed away from the true gospel(this fact is quite glaring if you bother to read your bible at all) doctrines of men now prevade the church and i earnestly seek to reconcile the church to christ. I pray that God would use me as a vessel to bring the church back to him.

Hmmm Kunle. I didn't know you were aware of anything called ''correct you in love'', as your various posts proved otherwise. I also pray that God would use you for propagating the gospel of Jesus Christ (I dont know about you reconciling the church to christ as it's unscriptural), rather than being an accuser of brethren.

fyneguy:

Hmmm Kunle. I didn't know you were aware of anything called ''correct you in love'', as your various posts proved otherwise. I also pray that God would use you for propagating the gospel of Jesus Christ (I dont know about you reconciling the church to christ as it's unscriptural), rather than being an accuser of brethren.

the heavens should rejoice over the repentance of one saint  dont you think?

i can just imagine bishop oyedepo, adeboye, oyakhilome and  tithe payers squating in kunle's and OBJ massion's boys quarter in heaven.  i am beginning to love hatred and lawlessness. i need another bible kunle  can you help a false brother please.  hope that is not a sin?

uhnn, God knows those who are His, and let those who call on God depart from iniquities.

paulipopo:



How to identify a false prophet


I define a false prophet as anyone who proclaims himself a servant of God but whose works clearly betray his vocation in God’s vineyard. He would be someone who takes it upon himself to teach messages that are not from God, preach false doctrines or even deceive many with lying signs and wonders.


2 Peter 2:1-3 explains false prophets to be “people who introduce destructive heresies and deny the Master who has ransomed them (Jesus Christ)”……,  “in their greed they will exploit you with fabrications”. Underline the following;

1. Introduce destructive heresies

2. Deny the Master who ransomed them (Jesus Christ)

3. Greedily exploit people with fabrications (lies including lying signs and wonders AKA stage managed miracles).


To start with the work of God in the very least is a vocation (work done for altruistic or humanitarian purposes rather than for income) but is more than that. It is a call to obey the voice of God in all ramifications of one’s life. Anyone can work in the Lord’s vineyard but the peak of serving God is proclaiming his word in our lives through our actions (not stealing, lying, fornicating or being involved in sexual immorality, evil ambitions, drunkenness, sloth, murder and a host of others). However there is the need to instruct, teach and implore the young (Titus 2:1-9) hence the reason we have elders in the faith (priests, pastors, bishops, deacons and others) whose duty is to encourage others in their walk with Christ and service to their fellow man. However not everyone can hold such esteemed positions as there are certain criteria required for such positions (1 Timothy 3: 1-13). These days we find a situation in which some people behave as if the call to serve God is their exclusive preserve and they make the most of this by delegating duties among the faithful in a very self serving way.


The first sign of a false prophet is with his introduction (by way of revelation) of destructive heresies.

In Christianity there is a list of so many heresies that have been taught through out history, however in modern times the most influential of these have been word of faith and prosperity theologies.  These teachings contradict the word of God in so many ways. For instance Christ asked “what shall it profit a man to gain the world yet lose his soul?” word of faith and prosperity theologies teach that poverty is of the devil and that every true believer (with faith) has no business with poverty. The danger in this is that so called Christians might begin to think that the pursuit of wealth is as important as their salvation which is not true. Christ taught us to store up treasures where neither moth nor thief could break or pilfer into. We are also faced with the problem of Christians being made to believe nonsensical teachings like

The second sign of a false prophet is through his denial of the Master (Jesus Christ). False prophets deny Jesus Christ by understating his importance in the lives of Christians. For instance Chris Oyakhilome has in times past emphasized the fact that Jesus Christ had to become born again by dying spiritually and physically in hell in order to redeem mankind from her sinfulness. This is despite the fact that most people become born again before receiving baptism whereas Jesus had his baptism before his crucifixion (assuming Jesus’ example is a model for all Christians). That notwithstanding the status of the Master is diminished if He is portrayed as one who sinned like all men not stating the fact that John 1 describes him as the Word made flesh. If Christ is the Word who was God and through him all things were made, can he possibly be as sinful as man himself needing redemption (since he had to become born again)?

More over the self proclaimed preacher is equated to Christ although in a subtle way. The preacher’s word is easily substituted with christ’s words. When Christ proclaims that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven even that a camel will easily pass through the eye of a niddle, the preacher implies that no true Christian has any business with poverty, thus making the love for riches a part of the ‘Christian faith’. The preacher states that we are meant to be successful (in material terms), Christ tells us to store up treasures for ourselves in heaven.


The third and final sign of a false prophet is with his use of greed induced fabrications. These are lies told to mislead the gullible or possibly God fearing people to part with their possessions. These lies include using stage managed miracles to create false hope for faithless and gullible people. Other lies that could be told include the use of false testimonies to mislead or deceive people into believing that God is a ‘miracle’ working God. The miracles Jesus Christ and his apostles worked were verifiable, if any so called miracles remain unverifiable especially when it is at the instance of the stage managers, then such miracles are fake and that is exactly what we have with ‘Christ’ Embassy.


Concluded

I did not want to respond to your epistle of human foolishness but so as not to further confuse some babes in christ with your shallow and wrong interpretation of the scriptures, I'll respond seriatim:

First, It's obvious you don't know the meaning of PROSPERITY as it's evident in your misinterpretation of the scripture  ''what shall it profit a man to gain the world yet lose his soul?” Your interpretation seems to mean that the man who gains the whole world shall lose his soul, whereas the scripture here refers to unbelievers with riches. It definitely has nothing to do with prosperous Christians!

Do you really feel poverty is from God? Why would God want his children- whom He purchased with a price- Jesus Christ, want them to be poor? The bible says in 3 John 2 vs 4 - "Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers"
When then did prosperity become alien to Christianity?

It's a figment of your imagination to assume the teaching of prosperity will make Christians go for the pursuit of Wealth, especially with reference to Pastor Chris sermon. Infact, Pastor Chris admonishes the church not to pursue these things but rather go for the word of God! His teaching emphasises the word of God in which everything man needs in life is wrapped! It's highly unfair of you to assume the man of God propagates the pursuit of wealth.

After reading your lines on the second sign of a false prophet, I discovered you are just another Pharisee of our time. You said ''False prophets deny Jesus Christ by understating his importance in the lives of Christians'' which is true but you went on to rubbish this submission by 1. misapplying the example of Pastor Chris message of how Jesus Christ got born again. In your quest to force Pastor Chris into your mould of false prophets, you miscarried the import of his message and as a typical Pharisee or religious hypocrite would say ''That notwithstanding the status of the Master is diminished if He is portrayed as one who sinned like all men not stating the fact that John 1 describes him as the Word made flesh.''

May I remind you (inform you actually) that all Jesus did was not for himself but man! When He died, it was for man. When He went to hell to defeat principalities and powers and collected the keys of death from the devil, it was for us! when He ressurected, It was to make the new life available to man!

The bible says in 2 Cor. 5 v 21 '' God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God''. If your warped logic was right, then the master status was diminished by making him SIN? Are you aware that Musleems argue that Jesus was never crucified as God made it seem so to people? They also use your logic by wondering why God would forsake Jesus, who Christians claim to be God's son, to be crucified, as it would amount to devaluating his status.

Yes Jesus had to be born again (His ressurection) for man to have access to the new life. Jesus became the second Adam after His ressurection. The First Adam was born of flesh and blood but the second, of the spirit! In Romans 8: 29, the bible says '' For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he(Jesus)might be the firstborn among many brethren  So if Jesus Christ was the firstborn among Brethren- Sons of God (who are born again), the He was born again! not for His sake but for man to have access to the new life. No wonder the bible says ''If any man is in Christ, HE IS A NEW CREATURE"

You also made a reference to a usually-misquoted and lifted verse where Jesus said it would be difficult for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Kindly go back to that Chapter of the bible and read the concluding part. Even the disciples were so shocked that they asked Jesus who then could be saved. What was Jesus' response? His response is a proof that christians dont have to be poor!

fyneguy:



You also made a reference to a usually-misquoted and lifted verse where Jesus said it would be difficult for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Kindly go back to that Chapter of the bible and read the concluding part. Even the disciples were so shocked that they asked Jesus who then could be saved. What was Jesus' response? His response is a proof that christians dont have to be poor!

No body as ever said that christians should be poor on this thread, what we are emphasizing is that the christian message as absolutely nothing to with with acquiring worldly wealth which is what oyaks deceives his munguns into believing. Whether you are rich or not as nothing to do with christianity, what Christ is interested in is our salvation and eternal life. not temporary material wealth here on earth. There is no were in the bible that Jesus or any of his disciples promise anybody material wealth as a benefit of being his follower. Prosperity preaching is pure scriptural manipulation and it is from the devil

Matthew 5:3

3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

@fyneguy
I'm still on your post
But would you please stop quoting 3 John 2 to ascertain that God want us rich. It was Paul who was a making a wish or call it a prayer for Gaius whose report of faith and good works were know to all. Such wish or Prayer should be made for men who are full of good works and are firm in the faith just like Gaius. Observe that Paul didn't say that about anybody else in all his epistles. Gauis must have been rich, and he was helpful to the saints but in sharing and in the Faith. It wasn't God who was proclaiming prosperity upon all(irrespective of their deeds). god has pleasure in the well being of His servant(Psalm), so Paul was right. when Tabitta also died in the Bible, many could not watch her remained like that because of her good works. She was eventually brought back to live.
3 John 2 is a wish or a prayer that should go out to men like Gauis, not extortioners and money lovers and those who manipulate others for selfish gain.
If you have any other scripture to back up the prosperity message, SHOOT and lets consider it.

Kunle

I will like to ask you these questions and please answer carefully and with scriptural references :

1. What is Salvation?

2. What is Eternal Life?

3. Why did Jesus come?

4. Is Salvation the purpose or the means to the purpose?

Biblical perspective on worldly riches:

1 John 2:16:
16 For the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure, a craving for everything we see, and pride in our achievements and possessions. These are not from the Father, but are from this world.


But our prosperity preaching crooked pastors would preach otherwise and tell you God provides you with wordly riches despite the fact that the bible states clearly that religion is not a way to become rich in :

1 Timothy 6:5-6:
5And protracted wrangling and wearing discussion and perpetual friction among men who are corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, who imagine that godliness or righteousness is a [a]source of profit [a moneymaking business, a means of livelihood]. From such withdraw.
    6[And it is, indeed, a source of immense profit, for] godliness accompanied with contentment (that contentment which is a sense of [b]inward sufficiency) is great and abundant gain.

fyneguy:

Kunle

I will like to ask you these questions and please answer carefully and with scriptural references :

1. What is Salvation?

2. What is Eternal Life?

3. Why did Jesus come?

4. Is Salvation the purpose or the means to the purpose?

All the above questions are duplicative so i believe one answer should suffice for all of them: basically Jesus came to reconcile man with god and teach us the right path to follow so that we would live a life that peases God. His central messages were "repent for the kingdom of God is at hand" love God with all your heart and soul""the need to believe in him" and "love your neighbour as yourself" this four messages form the central theme of Jesus christ message on earth and it was all about reconcilling man with God.

KunleOshob:

All the above questions are duplicative so i believe one answer should suffice for all of them: basically Jesus came to reconcile man with god and teach us the right path to follow so that we would live a life that peases God. His central messages were "repent for the kingdom of God is at hand" love God with all your heart and soul""the need to believe in him" and "love your neighbour as yourself" this four messages form the central theme of Jesus christ message on earth and it was all about reconcilling man with God.

oga kunle, thanks for answering questions today.  i read something here in    Mark 10 (New Living Translation)  can you kindly try explain verse 29/ 30 to me.   in lay man terms as you would have discovered most of us here are learning illeterates. thanks.

21 Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.

23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the Kingdom of God!” 24 This amazed them. But Jesus said again, “Dear children, it is very hard[f] to enter the Kingdom of God. 25 In fact, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!”

26 The disciples were astounded. “Then who in the world can be saved?” they asked.

27 Jesus looked at them intently and said, “Humanly speaking, it is impossible. But not with God. Everything is possible with God.”

28 Then Peter began to speak up. [size=15pt]“We’ve given up everything to follow you,” he said.

29 “Yes,” Jesus replied, “and I assure you that everyone who has given up house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or property, for my sake and for the Good News, 30 will receive now in return a hundred times as many houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and property—along with persecution. And in the world to come that person will have eternal life.[/size] 31 But many who are the greatest now will be least important then, and those who seem least important now will be the greatest then.[g]”

Jesus was obviously talking in parables in the passage you highlighted, how is it possible you receive a hundred times more sisters, brothers, mothers and children?? Who would even want that anyway. Also note that in verse 21 of the same passage you quoted the emphasis on christian giving directed by christ is giving to the poor and NOT to your pastor/ church or oyakhilome

lol

Kunle, verse 29 is explicit enough on the type of giving Jesus meant '', for my sake and for the sake of the GOOD NEWS, ''

Religious people like you always try to deviate from the exact import of the word.

You said Jesus was talking in parables. Ok He was but the import of the message is that when you give for the cause of the gospel, you shall receive several folds of that which you have given!

CE has a charity programme for the poor, widows and underprivileged called the innercity mission. There are schools where orphans do not pay a dime! Hungry people are being fed, clothing is privided.

Don't worry- God is aware of these things and He that sitteth on the throne shall forgive your ignorance.

solosimple:

@fyneguy
I'm still on your post
But would you please stop quoting 3 John 2 to ascertain that God want us rich. It was Paul who was a making a wish or call it a prayer for Gaius whose report of faith and good works were know to all. Such wish or Prayer should be made for men who are full of good works and are firm in the faith just like Gaius. Observe that Paul didn't say that about anybody else in all his epistles. Gauis must have been rich, and he was helpful to the saints but in sharing and in the Faith. It wasn't God who was proclaiming prosperity upon all(irrespective of their deeds). god has pleasure in the well being of His servant(Psalm), so Paul was right. when Tabitta also died in the Bible, many could not watch her remained like that because of her good works. She was eventually brought back to live.
3 John 2 is a wish or a prayer that should go out to men like Gauis, not  extortioners and money lovers and those who manipulate others for selfish gain.
If you have any other scripture to back up the prosperity message, SHOOT and lets consider it.

Your problem is that you don't know what christianity is all about.

Christianity is about a new kind of life made available by the ressurection of Jesus Christ. Christianity is about a call into partaking in the divine nature. This nature contains the fullness of God. Is God prosperous?

Don't worry, you can stay away from prosperity and leave some of us who claim the prosperity available in this new life.

Giving for the sake of Jesus means giving to the poor as he clearly taught us in matthew 25:35-40

Matthew 25:35-40:
35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. 36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’
  37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’

  40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’


Even though i support 100% giving towards the sake of spreading the gospel, most of what evangelical pentecostal churches are doing today is church planting and poaching of members of other churches to grow their own empire and NOT truely spreading the gospel. If CE is involved in charitable works then congratulations to them, but the question is what percentage of their income goes into this noble venture if they are really pursuing it and not just paying lipservice to it like most churches do.

lol Kunle

How many churches have told you the % of their ''income'' that's spent on charity?

Kunle, let's face the fact. You are just like a typical Pharisee, who's looking for faults in everything.

They were so fault-minded that even when Jesus healed someone on Sabbath day, they rather picked on the inappropriateness of doing it that day.

Have you read 1 Corithians very well to find out the type of Church it was? Go and check the type of things going on in that particular church as written by Paul in chapters 1 to 5, and also find out if they were condemned even inspite of those things happening.

fyneguy:

lol Kunle

How many churches have told you the % of their ''income'' that's spent on charity?

Kunle, let's face the fact. You are just like a typical Pharisee, who's looking for faults in everything.

They were so fault-minded that even when Jesus healed someone on Sabbath day, they rather picked on the inappropriateness of doing it that day.

Have you read 1 Corithians very well to find out the type of Church it was? Go and check the type of things going on in that particular church as written by Paul in chapters 1 to 5, and also find out if they were condemned even inspite of those things happening.

pls chill na. kunle na our brother.

@ kunle, may i ask how old you are kind sir? if u dont feel like disclosing this online you may tell me me the age range as in between 60 - 70.

many thanks

Your problem is that you don't know what christianity is all about.

Christianity is about a new kind of life made available by the ressurection of Jesus Christ. Christianity is about a call into partaking in the divine nature. This nature contains the fullness of God. Is God prosperous?

Don't worry, you can stay away from prosperity and leave some of us who claim the prosperity available in this new life.


AAHHHHH! Mr prosperity, so how much do you have and how many Estate have you, I know what it means to be rich, maybe you don't know, if you do, tell us are you rich or is your god failing you, many of us who talk this way in the defense of the true Gospel are not paupers, some of your can even hire you and pay your monthly salary without stress, but we choose not to elevate prosperity talk above righteousness.
Why did you not quote scriptures to defend yourself if you don't agree with my Biblical explanation of 3John, I know your type, when you are cut in the corner you quickly find a sinking ground to hide. Quote scripture to preach your message you no fit, the one you quoted in 3John you fumbled with it.
So what is Christianity about? PROSPERITY? YOUR CHURCH MESSAGE?
Is God prosperous? Is your answer yes? So who is he contesting with HIM, where does HE spend, does HE also pay tithe and all kind of giving you do?
You are the most deceived! PELE O! Sorry!

lol solosimple

I knew it!

So u elevate the talk of righteousness ba?

Now let's talk about righteousness. How can one become righteous?

The gospel of Christ is towards salvation of the soul and reconciling man with God. This for the most part is independent of worldly riches. The fact that you are a christian does not guarantee you worldly riches. You could be poor or rich, it has less to do with your faith, and it could even be argued that the former makes things difficult (though I don't think the latter is a slouch either). The story of the Rich young man (Matthew 19:17-30) lays credence to the challenges of being rich.

David prayed,

Psalm 30:7-9
"Two things I ask of you, O LORD; do not refuse me before I die:
Keep falsehood and lies far from me; give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread.
Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you, and say, 'Who is the LORD ?' Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God

Same as in the Lord's Prayer "Give us today our daily bread"

@ fyneguy


At least your epistle of human foolishness is far more 'deceptive' and foolish than the one you misrepresented. (Talk of kettle calling pot black. Wonders shall never cease).


You have hypocritically misrepresented my views as one stating that Christians are meant to be poor when I clearly stated in part I that it is God's wish for all men to prosper (in health, wealth and what have you).


Go on with your false teachings (word of faith) and like someone stated, the Lord knows those that are His.

As I said in another thread and again paraphrasing someone else: the prosperity gospel (word of faith movement) is satan's most recent vomit. :spit:

I acknowledge that many people within this prosperity gospel/word of faith movement are genuine believers in Christ and genuine Christians; unfortunately the prosperity gospel/word of faith movement robs them of the freedom that comes with knowing the Truth that sets one free!

lol see these religious folks!

Wisdom says I am prosperity and righteousness (Proverbs 8 v 12-21)

So you guys wanna work out your righteousness by staying away from prosperity?

Hmmm babes in christ. I pray God opens your eyes to discern the true meaning of christianity.

I have been called into a life of glory. I made my way prosperous through the word of God

I dont chase money! I dont chase materials cos they are already there for me.

Money knows it has to come to me! it serves me! I rather focus on the work of the kingdom!

But when ''Pharisees'' see my prosperity, they say I chase money. They say since I'm rich, it'll be difficult to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Hahahahahaha carnal lots!