phantomm: my brother hazard allowance should not be for only doctors. i was only adressing the posters calling us thieves because we are asking for 100k hazard allowance. if you ask me,the lab technologists,radiographers,pathologists, and surgeons should earn the highest hazard allowances in the health system. shikena

We are on a faceless forum so we can agree to disagree and disagree to agree with mutual respect.
During Enablule's time as NMA chair, anytime the FG called both NMA and JOHESU to a roundtable discussion, NMA retorts that it can not stay in the same room/table with unlearned people, calling JOHESU members unlearned people and illiterates. It is documented.

FG then proceeds to negotiate with them separately and not holistically in a bid to address their problems. JOHESU doesn't interfere with NMA's deal with FG, but NMA "breaks into the room" when it eavesdrops from outside and hears the JOHESU striking a good deal with FG for a living wage and professional advancement.

These are the part of the fundamental problems.

TechRev:

You are right in this you function without me. Cause what do you have to do with an engineer??
But you guys are killers!!!!

Who wins?? you guys or Bokoharam?? Doctors are The only group that increase their pay by killing and spilling innocent blood!!!

That is true jare. When oil workers go on strike and we are in scarcity, we have many horses in Lagos which we ride to take our pregnant and sick children to hospital. Oh! I forgot. Your vehicle uses water too which does not come in short supply.

phantomm: Comment from Punch newspaper Anthony Okpunwa • 4 hours ago

DOCTORS MUST USE ACTIONS AND NOT WORDS!!!

If doctors are really the head of the health sector and owners of the hospitals as they claim, they must act now or never. I can see water washing off sand under their feet.

When JOHESU go on strike, they lock up the hospitals and completely ground activities in the clinics. Government responds by granting their demand ASAP.

When NMA go on strike, they most times exclude consultants and house officers to render skeletal services. This usually makes their strike ineffective with eventual poor outcome.

Since this same GEJ's FG has decided to alter the existing hierarchy in the health system, the doctors may have no option than total withdrawal of their services which I think most Nigerians no longer need in the tertiary hospital going by the comments I read here. Let us meet at the private clinic. A welder most not be employed by government. Doctor must not be under government. Let us see who wins.

If teaching hospitals are abolished, most the nurses, lab men, radiographers, etc will run to private hospital to ask for job. I may sound wicked but this is the truth. If other health workers can comfortably work under doctor in private hospitals, health centres, general hospitals cottage hospitals and even some state teaching hospitals, why is it that the same group of workers wants to equal doctors in federal government hospitals? The truth must be told.

Phantomm! Is that what they said @truth must be told... I think you suffer the same fate as I. Is it completely wrong for other health professions(remember, I mean professions, co-noting professional) to which to reach a Director level in his field?(Hospital or not). Or, is it wrong for some of them who has reached a certain consulting level in their specialties to be tagged "CONSULTANT"? Really, I think the relativity you are talking about is being followed, xcept maybe some general or fed hospital where things are abnormal just like my own...and these places are headed by the Doc. I never say that doctors can't head the hospital well...but, I think that poor managements over the years. I believe this is why others lay claim for a right to manage the hospital.
I personally feel that fear of insecurity or the unknown is what is causing all these issues. And as such, it warrants a round table discussion to sort out most grey areas (I mean with openness and willingness for all sides to see each other's views. That way, we will be looking forward to a favourable working envt and better healthcare(with trust amongst the players) delivery to the peeps in whom are our reason to be practicing medicine in the first place. @this response is only for phantom to react and other reasonable peeps. Thanks

phantomm: i have no problem with that at all as long the pharmacists and the lab guys do what their mates do abroad. i do not want to believe that the hospital based pharmacists abroad ONLY dispense drugs like our people her

Outline for Nigerians what they do abroad they don't do in Nigeria. It's is even more difficult to work as a Scientist in the developing world than in abroad where their laboratory system works well.

Scientists in developing world armed with working principles have to largely improvise testing methodologies without tampering with the eventual results/outcome because of infrastructural deficits like lack of power supply and other issues. It's more difficult down here my guy.

sarutobie:
the emotions are justified...why should someone like me give a hoot about a cut throat doctor who was willing to watch a woman die for a price wayyyy beyond what was really needed..why should I care about what such a doctor is fighting for?

You forget India has steady power, they also produce most of the drugs locally there so costs are greatly reduced.

We have to tell ourselves the truth, there has been no light in UNIPORT over 4 months now despite that a bill of about 15 million is paid monthly. If and when school fees is increased students will begin to shake the place.

Thank God some eye Doctors are not among this foolishness

Thank God some eye Doctors are not among this foolishness

Arosam: Thank God some eye Doctors are not among this foolishness

Which eye doctors? Hope you are not refering to the opticians called optometrists.

Ophthalmologists are eye doctors,and they are on strike too,as they are medical doctors.

YourHealthlabs:

We are talking about what is obtainable in countries where you selectively copied Surgeon-general. "International best practices"-no be the grammar una dey always blow?

Let residents start earning lower than Pharmacists, Nurses and Scientists as is obtainable abroad.

Go to the links in my previous posts and verify.

Residents should start earning lower than Nurses,Pharmacists and scientists in the hospital?


Now i know these JOHESU people have lost it. Haha!

vicenzo:

Residents should start earning lower than Nurses,Pharmacists and scientists in the hospital?


Now i know these JOHESU people have lost it. Haha!

He's actually right residents earn less than nurses and pharmacists but when they become consultants they earn way more than nurses and pharmacists. i personally don't mind d idea pay me less than other health workers in fact use me as a slave but give me the necessary training in my specialty such that in 5-8 years i become a consultant then start paying me huge wages way higher than the rest, the problem with this is hypocrites like the guy you quoted will start saying why should a new consultant earn more than other health workers that have been working longer than him/her and the cycle starts all over again

Samakinr:
...i used to respect you...if you can single handedly manage a patient,
then you shouldn't mind telling the government to establish 'doctors
clinic' because as far as i know (and it seems you're the one ignorant
here), i have never seen a Dr doing bed bathe, i have never seen a Dr
disposing the feacal matters of patients, i have never seen a Dr doing
NG tube feeding, perhaps when you turn 90 and you have feacal
inconvenience, you will still have the ego to repeat the statement or
rather bull shit that you wrote up there. Why are you soo arrogant as if
being a Dr is a passports to riches, to heaven or the ultimate
achievements....and you are talking as if i didn't finish from college
of health sciences at OAU, while i still have aspirations to become a
Dr, i still have the integrity enough to respect and reference other
health professionals................................so don't talk as if
you're a know it all, you're just a drop in the ocean of humanity,

please learn how to argue constructively....

house officers in uith do bed bath, feed via NG tube, and pack feces, and they are proud of it, while nurses grow fat due to too much african magic

i love nurses alot, but when they start crossing boundary, my respect for them dissolves like sugar in hot cocoa...

but all the same, i wish you good luck in all your aspirations

sarutobie:
the emotions are justified...why should someone like me give a hoot about a cut throat doctor who was willing to watch a woman die for a price way beyond what was really needed..why should I care about what such a doctor is fighting for?

I sympathize with your story but this goes beyond doctors,In fact you hit the nail on the head. "Why should anyone care a hoot about anyone " That is the ethos of Nigerian society. Whether you are dealing with the police or Super eagles no one cares about anyone is it Aso Rock who said "I don't give a damn or the Police who treat their recruits "like poultry" . We are a very callous society and that is the truth.Doctors have only learnt to be like everyone else.In 1984 or 85 when they went on strike genuinely to protest about standards Buhari gave doctors 24 hours to leave official accommodation and threw them out with their families on to the street. Now any Nigerian who has the chnce will hold his countrymen to ransom.
People always like to blackmail doctors because life is involved but young doctors have seen too many of their colleagues become old and poor because of goodwill and won't repeat that mistake. People will come to hospital to have a baby and would rather spend the money on naming ceremony than pay their bills etc. An evil society cannot produce saints and this applies to doctors too.

Ummuja:
der r hosp policies dt dnt alow it so dt d drs r nt rendered useless evn wen dy r arwnd if nt dier strike wl nt mean anythg,report frm luth says its jst dier presence dt is lackn bt evrythg is mvn smoothly

this luth eh. . . . They no just dy hear word.

Oduduwaboy:

They are not exposed to the same hazards ma.
The surgeon deals with blood, body fluids, needle prick injury etc while the pharmacist or physiotherapist sees none of these!

What of d medical lab scientists? What of nurses? Are they not exposed to body fluids and other work hazards too? Ur greed will not allow u to talk sensibly and objectively. Note: i'm an entomologist before u begin to say i'm one of them, and dat's why i defend them.

vicenzo:

To avoid such costly mistakes by the charlatans called lab scientists and university pathologists with B.sc, doctors with MBBS are now going into pathology and lab science post graduate studies, to displace those charlatans and bring efficiency in correct diagnosis of diseases by combining clinical and theoritical knowledge in arriving at proper results. Doctors are going to save the day, so chillax.


Pharmacy harder than MBBS? Haha! Let me tell you now, at least 50% of the students who ended up studying Pharmacy, Med lab, Radiology, Nursing( especially male Nurses),Physiotherapy,etc. All wanted MBBS,but were not good enough to meet the criteria needed for admission into MBBS programmes.


They all grow up envying Medics, and when they graduate, they end up envying Doctors.

yea, they wanted studying med surg bt, cudnt belns of either jamb nonentical markings, post utme runs and even admission runs. Do u get it?
Moreover, all those knowledge u get from ur o'level which enables u into the systen ends in year 1 and a new thing is met in year 2. For Pharmacy, u are going into no year 2 without passing all the whole year1 course. So, dont that tell u somethg?
.
A 400level pharm student is a badoo. . . Quote me anywhere, to get pass 300level makes u a genius(having pass 12 to 14 courses with huge handout whose pass marks are 50% and some 60%). . . .
.
.
.
.entering is one thing, continuing is anoda.

GogetterMD:
The reason they asked for special plate numbers was as to enable them render emergency services anywhere anytime with minimal hitches, and that was even a suggestion, which was not part of the demands listed above. Get educated before jumping to conclusions

In other civilized societies or western countries, have u ever heard dat med drs are given special number plates? Ur arrogance will be ur downfall, medical drs. In civilized climes, i've heard of consultant biomedical scientist. Why shldn't it be so here? That's how u med drs kicked against Pharm.D (doctor of Pharmacy) as d 1st degree 4 Pharmacy as is obtainable in western countries.

vicenzo:
Which eye doctors? Hope you are not refering to the opticians called optometrists.
Ophthalmologists are eye doctors,and they are on strike too,as they are medical doctors.

Are Dentists on strike too? So much confusion in the health sector.

This is an opportunity for the other health workers to step up to the plate and show they are equal to doctors if it is really true.

Samgreguc:
yea, they wanted studying med surg bt, cudnt belns of either jamb nonentical markings, post utme runs and even admission runs. Do u get it?
Moreover, all those knowledge u get from ur o'level which enables u into the systen ends in year 1 and a new thing is met in year 2. For Pharmacy, u are going into no year 2 without passing all the whole year1 course. So, dont that tell u somethg?
.
A 400level pharm student is a badoo. . . Quote me anywhere, to get pass 300level makes u a genius(having pass 12 to 14 courses with huge handout whose pass marks are 50% and some 60%). . . .
.
.
.
.entering is one thing, continuing is anoda.

Medicine still remains the most sought after course in University. Its the top of the medical courses. Pharmacy may be tedious but its not among the top 3 most sought after medical courses in UNIPORT. Those are hard bare facts from the records. Pharmacy is not near tedious as Medicine, do you guys do clinicals?

My doc colleagues enough of engaging ppl in endless discussion....just let us sit back, relax & enjoy the seasonal film and see who will beg @long last...let them rant now..they will come back begging I promise ya..

phantomm: this is what they fail to realise.after my history taking and examination, I pretty much know where I am headed with my patients. labs and radiology do not MAKE my diagnoses for me BUT complement it. that is why the doctor is head and shoulders above. someone talked about the nurses treating patients these days and I shudder at the thought. is it not like one in my neighborhood who administered a certain IV drug for 5 days to a patient and shut down the dudes kidneys. I did a scan and both kidneys were grossly echogenic. totally fibrotic. that was when the mans wife remembered the doctor at the teaching hospital expecting him to perform a miracle. funny lot.

This is serious.

iwonbaoko:
I sympathize with your story but this goes beyond doctors,In fact you hit the nail on the head. "Why should anyone care a hoot about anyone " That is the ethos of Nigerian society. Whether you are dealing with the police or Super eagles no one cares about anyone is it Aso Rock who said "I don't give a damn or the Police who treat their recruits "like poultry" . We are a very callous society and that is the truth.Doctors have only learnt to be like everyone else.In 1984 or 85 when they went on strike genuinely to protest about standards Buhari gave doctors 24 hours to leave official accommodation and threw them out with their families on to the street. Now any Nigerian who has the chnce will hold his countrymen to ransom.
People always like to blackmail doctors because life is involved but young doctors have seen too many of their colleagues become old and poor because of goodwill and won't repeat that mistake. People will come to hospital to have a baby and would rather spend the money on naming ceremony than pay their bills etc. An evil society cannot produce saints and this applies to doctors too.

I concur..it is a mongrel upon mongrel scenario that is going on in this country. it has eaten deep down to the fabric of our society.

[fo[color=#006600][/color]r][quote author=Stoical]
[b][/b]
You seem to be a bit exposed, so I chose to respond just this one time. The advice you talk about, how often do they accept in good faith or reason with the pharmacist. Instead, the argument of I know better, rather than reasoning (all in the name of superiority) is always the case. I am a living witness (infact it happened just this week monday).
Well, I repeat...whenever ego is always in the forefront, the least is always achieved. I believe Medical/Health sector would have achieved much in moving forward when it involves their packages, if not for antagonism of each other's cravings for better service allowances. Hmmm.... #iwenttoschoolforsixyears ... Now a good album hit!!! Tu face, d'banj, p minus square, cue on... It shall be well someday[/quote

Most pharmacists in teaching hospitals are not knowledgeable in their profession. I m a resident in O$G. One day in the antenatal clinic, I prescribed amoxycillin 500mg 3 times a day to a pregnant woman in early third trimester with urinary tract infection. The pharmacist on duty refused to dispense the medication claiming that the dose was too much for a pregnant woman. He came to the clinic before patients shouting that I want to kill the baby with my prescription. He was very bitter. I decided to engage him in academic discussion to know his level of knowledge. I asked him dose of amoxycillin in an adult patient ,the maximum daily dose of amoxycillin and the FDA class of the drug. He was unable to answer those questions . patients started laughing at him. A patient made a side comment that he is fool by thinking that he can engage a doctor in an academic discussion. He was embarrassed and left with bitterness. At the end, the drug was dispensed and patient came back to thank me. Lesson: most allied health workers are not knowledgeable enough to advice a doctor.

otokx:


Medicine still remains the most sought after course in University. Its the top of the medical courses. Pharmacy may be tedious but its not among the top 3 most sought after medical courses in UNIPORT. Those are hard bare facts from the records. Pharmacy is not near tedious as Medicine, do you guys do clinicals?

Yes they do clinicals

Clinical pharmacy is the branch of Pharmacy where pharmacists provide patient care that optimizes the use of medication and promotes health, wellness , and disease prevention. Clinical pharmacists care for patients in all health care settings but the clinical pharmacy movement initially began inside hospitals and clinics. Clinical pharmacists often collaborate with physicians and other healthcare professionals...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_pharmacy


But of course, "our Almighty, all knowledgeable Nigerian trained and raised docs" would never let these ^ ^ happen in Nigerian hospitals...


When Nigerian docs now feel too knowledgeable to sit with Pharmacists, then know that patients are in serious trouble
lol

Honestly, we need to go back to archaic medicine where dentists remove teeths with 'tractors and go-to-hell"

We are in trouble in this country. The reason for the poor healthcare rating is not far-fetched.

drlawizle: My doc colleagues enough of engaging ppl in endless discussion....just let us sit back, relax & enjoy the seasonal film and see who will beg @long last...let them rant now..they will come back begging I promise ya..

hahahahaha.
so this is all you want, Mr. doctor? to be begged. u need people to come massage your ego. chai. how did these dumbtardss got admitted to med schools? seriously, the lack of intelligence being displayed by Nigerian doctors is appalling.

[/[color=#006600]color]

Acidosis: Clinical pharmacy is the branch of Pharmacy where pharmacists provide patient care that optimizes the use of medication and promotes health, wellness , and disease prevention. Clinical pharmacists care for patients in all health care settings but the clinical pharmacy movement initially began inside hospitals and clinics. Clinical pharmacists often collaborate with physicians and other healthcare professionals...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_pharmacy


But of course, "our Almighty, all knowledgeable Nigerian trained and raised docs" would never let these ^ ^

Most pharmacists in teaching hospitals are not knowledgeable in their profession. I m a resident in O$G. One day in the antenatal clinic, I prescribed amoxycillin 500mg 3 times a day to a pregnant woman in early third trimester with urinary tract infection. The pharmacist on duty refused to dispense the medication claiming that the dose was too much for a pregnant woman. He came to the clinic before patients shouting that I want to kill the baby with my prescription. He was very bitter. I decided to engage him in academic discussion to know his level of knowledge. I asked him dose of amoxycillin in an adult patient ,the maximum daily dose of amoxycillin and the FDA class of the drug. He was unable to answer those questions . patients started laughing at him. A patient made a side comment that he is fool by thinking that he can engage a doctor in an academic discussion. He was embarrassed and left with bitterness. At the end, the drug was dispensed and patient came back to thank me. Lesson: most allied health workers are not knowledgeable enough to advice a doctor.appen in Nigerian hospitals...



When Nigerian docs now feel too knowledgeable to sit with Pharmacists, then know that patients are in serious trouble
lol

Honestly, we need to go back to archaic medicine where dentists remove teeths with 'tractors and go-to-hell"

We are in trouble in this country. The reason for the poor healthcare rating is not far-fetched.

@acidosis

Pharmacy students in Nigeria, do they do clinicals or rural postings? You guys are so quick to quote wikipedia and shout that since US does it Nigeria should do it when the structures differ.

i know the answer by the way but wanted to see what you will say.

Clinical pharmacists have extensive education in the biomedical, pharmaceutical , sociobehavioral and clinical sciences. Most clinical pharmacists have a Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.) degree and many have completed one or more years of post-graduate training (e.g. a general and/or specialty pharmacy residency). Many clinical pharmacists also choose to become Board Certified through the Board of Pharmacy Specialties (BPS) which was organized in 1976 as an independent certification agency of APhA (American Pharmacists Association). A pharmacist may become a Board Certified Pharmacotherapy Specialist (BCPS), a Board Certified Oncology Pharmacist (BCOP), Board Certified Nuclear Pharmacist (BCNP), Board Certified Nutrition Support Pharmacist (BCNSP), a Board Certified Psychiatric Pharmacist (BCPP), or a Board Certified Ambulatory Care Pharmacist (BCACP) through the Board of Pharmacy Specialties (BPS).

There are also subspecialties within the Pharmacotherapy specialty: Cardiology and Infectious Disease. It is denoted as an "Added Qualification" or AQ. In order to obtain one of these specialties you must first be a Board Certified Pharmacotherapy Specialist (BCPS) and then submit a portfolio to the Board of Pharmacy Specialties for review to determine if they will grant you the added qualifications. [2]

An up-to-date explanation of pharmacy education leading to
the Doctor of Pharmacy degree and Specialty Board
Certification can be viewed at: http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=MvPb5peBnAY .


Within the system of health care , clinical pharmacists are experts in the therapeutic use of medications. They routinely provide medication therapy evaluations and recommendations to patients and other health care professionals. Clinical pharmacists are a primary source of scientifically valid information and advice regarding the safe, appropriate, and cost-effective use of medications.

Clinical pharmacists are also making themselves more readily available to the public. In the past, access to a clinical pharmacist was limited to hospitals, clinics, or educational institutions. However, clinical pharmacists are making themselves available through a medication information hotline, and reviewing medication lists, all in an effort to prevent medication errors in the foreseeable future.

In some states, clinical pharmacists are given prescriptive authority under protocol with a medical provider (i.e., MD or DO), and their scope of practice is constantly evolving.

In the United Kingdom clinical pharmacists are given independent prescriptive authority.






While in Nigeria, doctors want to lock up pharmacists in dispensing stores.

lol, what a country

otokx:


Medicine still remains the most sought after course in University. Its the top of the medical courses. Pharmacy may be tedious but its not among the top 3 most sought after medical courses in UNIPORT. Those are hard bare facts from the records. Pharmacy is not near tedious as Medicine, do you guys do clinicals?

yes, I never said it isnt the most sought out bt, I wil stand to tell u that both are difficult(none is diff. Dan d oda). Whether u like it or nt thats d truth.
In pharmacy u are being given a very litle time to cover bulks.
.
Talking of Clinicals, b.pharm isnt clinical oriented so, just little clinicals myt b done. But, what do u have to say abt d practicals which are being written as an exam course of their own. Thank God u are in UNIPORT, take a strow to the pharmas board and see 4 urself.
.
Sir Otokx be truthful to urself by answering the question, "how many medical courses do we even have in UNIPORT?" that u wil say its nt among the top three most sought after med courses.
How many post utme candidate was there in pharmacy as at last yr? I guess, u can ansa that urself.
.
Fear of failure makes people nt to study pharmacy in UNIPORT u knw dat.

bumfem:

AWESOME!!! great post. Kudos man.

Loving this post. 1000000 likes

To give balance to the Pharmacy parable above there is an element of human factor. The pharmacist approach though was malicious.

I once had a dental procedure at UPTH and got the usual painkiller and antibiotic prescription but the doctor was unaware of an unrelated medical condition which was disclosed during clerking. I don't blame him because these guys are overworked instead of seeing maybe 15 cases a day they get to do 50 and then still have to do seminars, lecture students and run departments.

It was a pharmacist friend that drew my attention to that drug and it was left out.

Everyone is important but honour to whom honour is due and that is the doctor. Even as consultants they still have to read and add to knowledge but not so for the others like nurses, etc who apply known procedures.

Really feel for the pharmacists, how did they allow themselves to be lumped with the others who are no where near them.