EasternLeopard: Am ashame of you guys who thinks increasing school fees is the solution to our universities/polytechnics

Fellow Nigerians

If you like increase the school fees to. 10 000 000 naira per year it won't achieve much


How educational system is faulty faulty faulty

Teach our kids - undergraduates how things work/ how they are produced, and in 20yrs, we would have people opening small scale production businesses that creates wealth/jobs for employers/employees

Finally

Nigerians think

How many graduates of private higher institutions can compete with graduates of other nations

How many can design / produce useful things

AjanleKoko:



Really?
The differences are so 'glaring'?
I don't think so. Engineering education in Nigeria is actually just four years. The first year is a glorified A-Level. After all, I went through the same university system.

I am not exactly sure what extra value is added by going to university, especially when I look at it from an employer POV. Back then, we could argue about how many additional fourier series classes we took, bla bla bla, but now that I have to hire people, I really cannot see the difference. A uni grad is just as badly-educated, and can't couple two ICs together to save their lives. At least some of the poly grads can do that.

AjanleKoko:



Really?
The differences are so 'glaring'?
I don't think so. Engineering education in Nigeria is actually just four years. The first year is a glorified A-Level. After all, I went through the same university system.

I am not exactly sure what extra value is added by going to university, especially when I look at it from an employer POV. Back then, we could argue about how many additional fourier series classes we took, bla bla bla, but now that I have to hire people, I really cannot see the difference. A uni grad is just as badly-educated, and can't couple two ICs together to save their lives. At least some of the poly grads can do that.

naijababe:

This is one of the big underlying problems, there's no reason why manufacturing companies/banks, small retail firms, telcos cannot absorb many of students who end up with redundant degrees. Having said that, we have to stop treating our skilled labour workers so badly

naijababe:

I'd argue that this is only true in Nigeria

naijababe:

In the UK, yes it is. In naija, I have no idea. There's a reason why some Unis in the UK offer a number of engineering courses at both Diploma and degree levels.

AZeD1:


The bold would be very hard to do. Nigerians worship money while ignoring the dignity of labour so everybody wants to be rich irrespective of how the riches are gotten.

This mentality is part of the reasons why artisans would not be respected afterall in the Nigerian society, who are they?

AjanleKoko:

I don't think the UK offers a 'polytechnic' system on the same scale as Nigeria.
As far as I know, polytechnics in Europe actually offer even PhD programs. Which is what we are saying. No need for prescribing the certificate brand, let each institution offer its own roadmap and strategy, and allow them to seek the commensurate funding to match their prospectus.

Everything is always handed out or handed down in Nigeria according to someone's discretion. This is what has happened with the polytechnics. They have been classified as 'inferior'. Opportunities for academic staff, certificates issued, institutional funding, everything has been streamlined accordingly.

AjanleKoko:


Everything is always handed out or handed down in Nigeria according to Nyesom Wike someone's discretion. This is what has happened with the polytechnics. They have been classified as 'inferior'. Opportunities for academic staff, certificates issued, institutional funding, everything has been streamlined accordingly.

naijababe:

It is not so much of ignoring dignity of labour as much as many of us not wanting to pay fair wages. The average plumber or mechanic in the UK or US has his own business good employment laws ensure they are paid fair wages. I don't even it's occurred to any of our legislooters, never mind doing anything about it.

AjanleKoko:

LOL.
Europe is a re-engineered society (post-colonization),re-engineered to focus on enhancing working-class opportunities and social security for the masses. The US was built on strong working-class ideals.

In contrast, Nigeria is purely a rent-based economy structured along medieval ideals. A powerful, almost absolute hierarchical framework is firmly in place to guarantee a huge portion of available wealth distributed at the top, and almost zero participation at the bottom.
The big boys get the bigger chunk of whatever is available to share, while the weak need to pay someone higher-up on the food chain, in order to even exist.

naijababe:

You are actually making my point for me, do u agree now that HND programs are succinctly different from degree programs even in those polytechnics you mentioned above?

naijababe:

when i told you my hubby once said Nigeria is mirror of medieval Europe, you argued with that fact till thy kingdom come o, abi u don forget?

naijababe:

It is not so much of ignoring dignity of labour as much as many of us not wanting to pay fair wages. The average plumber or mechanic in the UK or US has his own business good employment laws ensure they are paid fair wages. I don't even it's occurred to any of our legislooters, never mind doing anything about it.

AjanleKoko:

You must be mistaking me for someone else o

VolvoS60:
Ijeoma writes persuasively. The problem is that most of her pieces are amoral, pro-free market treatises that are deafeningly silent about tackling the institutional failures which breed (and sustain) the life blighting systemic corruption Nigeria is (in)famous for.

A long time ago she took a position firmly in favour of the removal of the so-called subsidy on fuel, a position she articulated at will in her weekly journal with a mainstream paper. What she and the other subsidy removal proponents failed to answer convincingly is why Nigeria's refineries are not working and we need to import expensive foreign fuel in the first place. Without importation there would be no need for a subsidy! And this country has no business importing refined fuel since she has the raw material under her soil and the technology to refine is also available. Till this moment, Nigerians have not been told the whole truth about how much it costs to produce and refine a litre of fuel locally versus how much it costs to import a litre of refined fuel. And I think we all know the reason why.

In this piece above she has also declared her stand in favour of the removal of the subsidy on university education. She has made some convincing useful points especially about Nigeria's inexplicable institutionalized discrimination against technical education. Other points such as her linking excessive salt consumption in Jos to the crisis in higher education simply do not have merit.

How much does it cost to train and graduate a LASU student in each discipline? Ijeoma talks about investigative journalism possibly revealing uncomfortable truths about the state of UI, Unilag and UNN facilities. Fine. What is revealing is that she did not have anything to say about a probing searchlight being beamed on the finances of the federal government or the LASG. There will also be very uncomfortable and inconvenient truths there, the kind that propelled the LASG governor to say the FOI does not apply to states. The kind that propelled the president to say he doesn't give a 'damn' on national TV.

You can't private the gains and socialize the losses.

bushdoc9919:

Well...the problem is that in 2009 ASUU agreed with FG that FG would give them N3 trillion in extra funding for universities.

Fast foward to 2013...and not only was the money not paid...but Govt told ASUU that they would give them 1 trillion over five years.

Thus.....high fees became inevitable.

Truth is...we cannot subsidize students like we used to in the 70's when the total number of students nationwide was just 90,000. So its fees go up....or taxes go up.

VolvoS60:
Ijeoma writes persuasively. The problem is that most of her pieces are amoral, pro-free market treatises that are deafeningly silent about tackling the institutional failures which breed (and sustain) the life blighting systemic corruption Nigeria is (in)famous for.

A long time ago she took a position firmly in favour of the removal of the so-called subsidy on fuel, a position she articulated at will in her weekly journal with a mainstream paper. What she and the other subsidy removal proponents failed to answer convincingly is why Nigeria's refineries are not working and we need to import expensive foreign fuel in the first place. Without importation there would be no need for a subsidy! And this country has no business importing refined fuel since she has the raw material under her soil and the technology to refine is also available. Till this moment, Nigerians have not been told the whole truth about how much it costs to produce and refine a litre of fuel locally versus how much it costs to import a litre of refined fuel. And I think we all know the reason why.

In this piece above she has also declared her stand in favour of the removal of the subsidy on university education. She has made some convincing useful points especially about Nigeria's inexplicable institutionalized discrimination against technical education. Other points such as her linking excessive salt consumption in Jos to the crisis in higher education simply do not have merit.

How much does it cost to train and graduate a LASU student in each discipline? Ijeoma talks about investigative journalism possibly revealing uncomfortable truths about the state of UI, Unilag and UNN facilities. Fine. What is revealing is that she did not have anything to say about a probing searchlight being beamed on the finances of the federal government or the LASG. There will also be very uncomfortable and inconvenient truths there, the kind that propelled the LASG governor to say the FOI does not apply to states. The kind that propelled the president to say he doesn't give a 'damn' on national TV.

You can't private the gains and socialize the losses.

VolvoS60:
Ijeoma writes persuasively. The problem is that most of her pieces are amoral, pro-free market treatises that are deafeningly silent about tackling the institutional failures which breed (and sustain) the life blighting systemic corruption Nigeria is (in)famous for.

A long time ago she took a position firmly in favour of the removal of the so-called subsidy on fuel, a position she articulated at will in her weekly journal with a mainstream paper. What she and the other subsidy removal proponents failed to answer convincingly is why Nigeria's refineries are not working and we need to import expensive foreign fuel in the first place. Without importation there would be no need for a subsidy! And this country has no business importing refined fuel since she has the raw material under her soil and the technology to refine is also available. Till this moment, Nigerians have not been told the whole truth about how much it costs to produce and refine a litre of fuel locally versus how much it costs to import a litre of refined fuel. And I think we all know the reason why.

In this piece above she has also declared her stand in favour of the removal of the subsidy on university education. She has made some convincing useful points especially about Nigeria's inexplicable institutionalized discrimination against technical education. Other points such as her linking excessive salt consumption in Jos to the crisis in higher education simply do not have merit.

How much does it cost to train and graduate a LASU student in each discipline? Ijeoma talks about investigative journalism possibly revealing uncomfortable truths about the state of UI, Unilag and UNN facilities. Fine. What is revealing is that she did not have anything to say about a probing searchlight being beamed on the finances of the federal government or the LASG. There will also be very uncomfortable and inconvenient truths there, the kind that propelled the LASG governor to say the FOI does not apply to states. The kind that propelled the president to say he doesn't give a 'damn' on national TV.

You can't private the gains and socialize the losses.

EasternLeopard:

You are not seeing the bigger picture

Higher school fees do not translate to effective/efficient education

Look at the graduates of private higher institutions how many of them if given 100 million naira can open a small/medium scale factory that produces state of the art marketable products, creating wealth/jobs

My friend

Have you ever worked in the educational system

When you do, this doctrine of higher school fees you hold unto would be discarded

Nigerians, irrespective of their financial status, believe it is mandatory for the government to make sure that tertiary education is free and of high quality. Yet, a lot of these Nigerians, especially from the middle class upwards pay more in primary and secondary school fees than in university tuition. Like a friend of mine put it, it is only in Nigeria that a parent will willingly pay N150, 000 per term for his child in secondary school; yet he wants to pay just N30, 000 annually in university and expect high quality. According to the Central Bank of Nigeria, an estimated $3billion leaves our shores annually to pay for university tuition abroad. I believe that if our own schools were of quality and tuition-paying, these monies would go to making our schools better. It would also enable the schools extend more opportunities to those who are more indigent.

Will this make less people able to afford tertiary education? Possibly. But the consolation that goes with it is that those who do go to school will be receiving quality education, which they can apply to create opportunities in our economy. The target for education should be more about quality than quantity. As much as it is important that everyone who desires to attend a tertiary education does, it is even more important that those who do presently get the best possible. If we have to make a compromise between the two, we should sacrifice quantity of graduates for the quality of the graduates. But we should also improve the quality of public basic education that one does not have to have tertiary education in order make it in our country. We should make the system so good that we can have our own Richard Bransons, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs who all have gone on to be world-changers despite not having university degrees, but public basic education in their countries.

I believe that reducing the subsidy levels on tertiary education will free up more money for governments to invest in basic education, especially states and local governments. Public basic education systems should be given the highest priority possible. This is because it is the only vehicle that can deliver education en masse. The norm should be that everyone should be comfortable going to public primary and secondary schools, and private schools to be only for the upper class. The federal government should set the overall policy for education but leave it for the states and local governments to implement it. They should provide funding for implementation of specific policies, such as increased science education and so on as the policy states.

States should individually craft policies for better basic education delivery, either through the creation of school districts or making sure, for example, that there is a minimum of one primary school per ward and a secondary school for 3-4 contiguous wards. Also, these schools should have the best infrastructure, from classrooms to laboratories to workshops and so on. There should be upgrading of curricula to attracting the best into the teaching profession. Each state should set targets for measuring improvements and quality, upon which funding should be dependent. These targets should also include the percentage of graduating students that go on to tertiary institutions. Also, local governments should be better strengthened to improve primary education, with the oversight and funding of the state.

Beyond that, we need to change our approach to education, which is solely defined by many as excelling in the classroom. True and proper education goes beyond that. And what about sports, technical skills and the arts? Not every student is the excellent classroom-type, but every student and person on earth is imbued with natural gifts which can be used to add value to his society and himself.

The focus of these things is to improve educational quality from the bottom up, so that those who go through schooling, whether they stop after secondary school or go on to acquire a PhD have received quality education that they can use to their productivity and that of the larger society and economy. This is the only way we can afford the poor kid the opportunity to start at rock bottom and not just go through school, but also receive quality education all the way.

bushdoc9919:


But let's be honest.....facilities are bad....and facilities need money. Which govt does not have. (If they did...then the N3trillion promised universities in 2009 would have been no problem).

mbulela:
cross your heart and tell me that you trust the average Nigerian education administrator with that 3 trillion naira?
Will the money not develop feet?

mbulela:

No wonder it took you so long to reply.
you were preparing a bomb for Ijeoma.
I am not a big fan of Ijeoma as she sees everything through that free market lens.
However, I think she has a point in the sense that we cannot expect tot have free (or almost free) tertiary education. In the face of more pressing needs,it is not possible. There is no long grammar about it. Unfortunately,that FOI issue will remain a log around BRF's neck and strengthen the hands of his detractors.

VolvoS60:


I agree with you that university education cannot be free. (although one part of me bristles that Babatunde Fashola, Ebele Jonathan who are all products of public universities, have decided to pull up the ladder after climbing to the top. I have not been able to get details of Ijeoma's education but I would be surprised if she was not educated in a Nigerian public university). The question is: how come so many of those who say university education is NOT a public good ARE graduates of Nigerian public universities?

I would like it if they could answer me. They cannot plug the leaks and waste in their porous, inefficient bureaucracies but they consider university education to be the exclusive preserve of the wealthy.



"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." - Helder Camara

VolvoS60:

^^^
You bet I was preparing a missile for her. We have to keep those who shape public opinion honest or we are all in trouble.

Pardon me for sounding cynical but I believe there is a long term view agenda behind the push towards the privatization (and that is what it is) of university education in Nigeria. Let me explain.

Many moons ago, when the earth was still flat, I was a secondary school student in form 2 (before it was changed to JSS 2) and civics was part of the school curriculum. I took a few classes and then for reasons which were never fully explained, the subject was removed from the school curriculum. To this day, I am not aware of civics being taught in any of our schools at that level. Correct me if I am wrong. Was it a coincidence that this took place under a military dictatorship in the mid-1980s? I leave you to be the judge.

In the first half of the last century, there were strong demonstrations against the involvement of the US in Vietnam. The epicentre of these demonstrations were public universities (although it must be said there were also strong demonstrations against in the war in private US universities). Nigerian university students have long followed this 'tradition' of taking a position on social issues, both local (SAP, fuel subsidy etc) and international (SA's policy of apartheid). Is any one in any doubt about the outcome for social justice and activism when Nigeria's universities become free market outposts? Again I leave you to be the judge.

I agree with you that university education cannot be free. (although one part of me bristles that Babatunde Fashola, Ebele Jonathan who are all products of public universities, have decided to pull up the ladder after climbing to the top. I have not been able to get details of Ijeoma's education but I would be surprised if she was not educated in a Nigerian public university). The question is: how come so many of those who say university education is NOT a public good ARE graduates of Nigerian public universities?

I would like it if they could answer me. They cannot plug the leaks and waste in their porous, inefficient bureaucracies but they consider university education to be the exclusive preserve of the wealthy.



"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." - Helder Camara

mbulela:

If GEJ is the kind of product you are referring to,please I don't want such education for my enemies.
A phd holder that cannot articulate any view point. A man bereft of ideas, clueless and inept to boot. If we need to increase fees and stop us from producing such graduates, i am all for it.

bushdoc9919:

Sorry to but in....apologies if I seem too persistent.

Well....back when Fashola graduated from Uniben in 1987...there were just slightly over 100,000 Nigerian university students.(When GEJ was a student in the 70's there were 80,000 students nationwide).

Just to show you how numbers have risen...in 2004 at my alma mater...there were 70,000 students.

The problem with subsidizing education in Nigeria is that there are too many students for the subsidies to work.

VolvoS60:

^^^
You bet I was preparing a missile for her. We have to keep those who shape public opinion honest or we are all in trouble.

mbulela:
The more pressing problem is that there are more important issues than tertiary education.
I want primary and secondary school free. When I mean free, I mean completely free. Not this political free education i see around. Kids going to school on empty bellies,paying for ancillary services while tuition is free or paying for external exams.
After secondary school, university should be based on merit, value for money with aid for intelligent but poor kids and most importantly university should not be a compulsory step.