macof:
Thank you.

If this is the case, I was right to state that many tribes and sub-tribes are going around referring to themselves as ethnic group

Yea u are kind of right but not absolutely right....because the majority of the tribes are very distinct on their own, though they may have common origins.

Let's take the Idomoid (idoma family) of tribes for example....This family consists of Idoma, Igede and Agatu from Benue state, Alago, Agatu and Eloyi fron Nasarawa state and even Yalla and yache ppl from cross river state and some other few groups in Enugu state. They are jointly the APA ppl. The languages and dialects of this group of ppl are very similar but they have been classified very differenr from time.
The truth is that there are many things that define an ethnic group, the colonial, political and even religious factors.
For instance the Igede and Agatu people in Benue hav been very much together with the idoma ppl despite their slight differences in culture and language partly because of the fact that they have only one overall traditional ruler which is the Ochi'doma. And this Ochi'doma seat is not produced by only the idomas, the igede and Agatu have equal rights to this stoolship and this is what has really made igedes still very united with the idomas, but in the real sense, igede ppl hardly identify themselves as idomas and many of them prefer to be classified seperately.
The Agatu in Benue are even more under the Idoma umbrella and many of them are ok being called idomas or Agatu, they really dont care.
But the situation for the Agatu and Alago in Nasarawa state is very different. Probably because these ones have been seperated from their idoma brothers politically for a very longtime since the old Benue-Plateau state was split a longtime, the bond btw them has reduced. The Agatu and Alago in Nasarawa have their own independent traditional rulers whom i dont think recognise the supremacy of the Ochi'doma. The Alagos themselves being the second largest tribe of Nasarawa state have 3 first class traditional rulers to themselves - The Osukwo of Obi, the Osanna of Keanna and the Andoma of Doma, the Agatu in Nasarawa have no first class ruler, they only have the Oche Agatu and one other ruler which r both second class.
Another factor that is said to have led to the division of this language family is said to be the invasion of fulani jihadists. Although the fulani jihadists cannot be said to have gained victory iver the Apa ppl, but they succeeded in dividing them to a great extent and influencing them heavily.
This is what made Alago and Agatu people to have so many muslims. Although it may be very difficult to tell btw christians and muslims who is more in Alago and Agatu land, but to me i feel the muslims are slightly more in population. And also, because of the multiplicity of ethnic groups in that Nasarawa state, Hausa language as usual became the lingua franca there and thus many Alagos and Agatus are fluent in Hausa whereas their idoma and igede counterparts in Benue state are not. And this has made the Alagos and Agatus in Nasarawa have a greater attachment to Hausas and northern mentality.
The idoma and igedes in Benue are overwhelmingly christians and Roman catholic and infact they feel more attachment to the igbos because many of them do speak igbo as a second language, especially those at the boundary areas with igbo land.
At a time when an alago dominated LGA (Doma LGA) of Nasarawa was said to be merged witg Benue state, many of the Alagos objected, probably because they dont want to come under the idoma umbrella or some other reasons of which am not sure.
So u can see how political and religous influnece went a long way in definning the ethnicity and ethnic consciousness of ppl.
As for the Yalla and Yache ppl of cross river. Since they have been classified under the south south zone and not just a different state from motherland idoma, their political destiny and bond with their motherland has been severed to a large extent, and they now seem to have more bond with their fellow cross river (Niger deltan) minority groups. Although d bond btw dem and their motherland is still very much there.

Nowenuse:
Yea u are kind of right but not absolutely right....because the majority of the tribes are very distinct on their own, though they may have common origins.
Let's take the Idomoid (idoma family) of tribes for example....This family consists of Idoma, Igede and Agatu from Benue state, Alago, Agatu and Eloyi fron Nasarawa state and even Yalla and yache ppl from cross river state and some other few groups in Enugu state. They are jointly the APA ppl. The languages and dialects of this group of ppl are very similar but they have been classified very differenr from time.
The truth is that there are many things that define an ethnic group, the colonial, political and even religious factors.
For instance the Igede and Agatu people in Benue hav been very much together with the idoma ppl despite their slight differences in culture and language partly because of the fact that they have only one overall traditional ruler which is the Ochi'doma. And this Ochi'doma seat is not produced by only the idomas, the igede and Agatu have equal rights to this stoolship and this is what has really made igedes still very united with the idomas, but in the real sense, igede ppl hardly identify themselves as idomas and many of them prefer to be classified seperately.
The Agatu in Benue are even more under the Idoma umbrella and many of them are ok being called idomas or Agatu, they really dont care.
But the situation for the Agatu and Alago in Nasarawa state is very different. Probably because these ones have been seperated from their idoma brothers politically for a very longtime since the old Benue-Plateau state was split a longtime, the bond btw them has reduced. The Agatu and Alago in Nasarawa have their own independent traditional rulers whom i dont think recognise the supremacy of the Ochi'doma. The Alagos themselves being the second largest tribe of Nasarawa state have 3 first class traditional rulers to themselves - The Osukwo of Obi, the Osanna of Keanna and the Andoma of Doma, the Agatu in Nasarawa have no first class ruler, they only have the Oche Agatu and one other ruler which r both second class.
Another factor that is said to have led to the division of this language family is said to be the invasion of fulani jihadists. Although the fulani jihadists cannot be said to have gained victory iver the Apa ppl, but they succeeded in dividing them to a great extent and influencing them heavily.
This is what made Alago and Agatu people to have so many muslims. Although it may be very difficult to tell btw christians and muslims who is more in Alago and Agatu land, but to me i feel the muslims are slightly more in population. And also, because of the multiplicity of ethnic groups in that Nasarawa state, Hausa language as usual became the lingua franca there and thus many Alagos and Agatus are fluent in Hausa whereas their idoma and igede counterparts in Benue state are not. And this has made the Alagos and Agatus in Nasarawa have a greater attachment to Hausas and northern mentality.
The idoma and igedes in Benue are overwhelmingly christians and Roman catholic and infact they feel more attachment to the igbos because many of them do speak igbo as a second language, especially those at the boundary areas with igbo land.
At a time when an alago dominated LGA (Doma LGA) of Nasarawa was said to be merged witg Benue state, many of the Alagos objected, probably because they dont want to come under the idoma umbrella or some other reasons of which am not sure.
So u can see how political and religous influnece went a long way in definning the ethnicity and ethnic consciousness of ppl.
As for the Yalla and Yache ppl of cross river. Since they have been classified under the south south zone and not just a different state from motherland idoma, their political destiny and bond with their motherland has been severed to a large extent, and they now seem to have more bond with their fellow cross river (Niger deltan) minority groups. Although d bond btw dem and their motherland is still very much there.

Thank You for this write-up. Much appreciated.

I think we must open a separate thread to classify all Nigerian Tribes under ethnic groups.

Nowenuse: The traditional ruler of the Largest city of the middlebelt- THE GBON GWOM JOS. - "HRH Da Jacob Buba Gyang".

-Classic names-. Though, they sound alien.

The traditional ruler of the largest tribe of the middlebelt. The Tor Tiv- HRH Alfred Akawe Torkula.

Nupe women from Niger state

Hustle for us pictures of birom ladies

Lalasticlala, This should be on Frontpage. It's very educative.

.

Nowenuse:
The traditional ruler of the largest tribe of the middlebelt. The Tor Tiv- HRH Alfred Akawe Torkula.

Are Tivs larger than the Nupe

macof:



Are Tivs larger than the Nupe

Yes, Tivs are larger than Nupes.
Nupe is a divided ethnic family. Bassa nge, Bassa kumo, kakanda, Dibo, Ganagana e.t.c are all Nupe speaking tribes (nupoid speakers), but they are mostly classified differently. If they were all classified ethnically as NUPE. Then i probably think Nupes would have been able to challenge the Tivs in population.

Another tribe that could have possibly challenged the Tivs in population in the middlebelt are the GBAGYIS, they have a by far larger landmass than the Tivs. They occupy far more LGAs than the Tivs, only that they are also divided somehow too.
Nupes do not occupy areas as the tivs do. Their land is also quite sparsely populated unlike the tivs

Nowenuse:


Yes, Tivs are larger than Nupes.
Nupe is a divided ethnic family. Bassa nge, Bassa kumo, kakanda, Dibo, Ganagana e.t.c are all Nupe speaking tribes (nupoid speakers), but they are mostly classified differently. If they were all classified ethnically as NUPE. Then i probably think Nupes would have been able to challenge the Tivs in population.

Another tribe that could have possibly challenged the Tivs in population in the middlebelt are the GBAGYIS, they have a by far larger landmass than the Tivs. They occupy far more LGAs than the Tivs, only that they are also divided somehow too.
Nupes do not occupy areas as the tivs do. Their land is also quite sparsely populated unlike the tivs

Tivs and Nupes have a similar population

From school days, we were taught the Tiv were the largest minority ethnicity in the Middle Belt. The Nupe probably come in second.

Wulfruna:
From school days, we were taught the Tiv were the largest minority ethnicity in the Middle Belt. The Nupe probably come in second.

Well, according to Nigeria's 2006 population census

For Tiv
Benue state = 4,219,244 (About 65% Tv)
+ about 200K in Taraba
= 2.94 Million


For Nupe
Niger State = 3,950,249 (About 60% Nupe) = 2.37 Million
Kwara State = 2,371,089 (About 15% Nupe) = 0.355 Millio
+ About 150,000 in Kogi (as Kakanda)
= 2.875 Million

Also, there are more Nupe migrant communities in Northern states compared to Tivs.
So, both tribes are roughly the same.

There are also some Tiv in Nasarawa. Don't know how large that population is, however. I hear it is 'significant'.

In the end, it does seem that the Tiv outnumber the Nupe,even if by a small margin.

scholes0:


Well, according to Nigeria's 2006 population census

For Tiv
Benue state = 4,219,244 (About 65% Tv)
+ about 200K in Taraba
= 2.94 Million


For Nupe
Niger State = 3,950,249 (About 60% Nupe) = 2.37 Million
Kwara State = 2,371,089 (About 15% Nupe) = 0.355 Millio
+ About 150,000 in Kogi (as Kakanda)
= 2.875 Million

Also, there are more Nupe migrant communities in Northern states compared to Tivs.
So, both tribes are roughly the same.

Haba my brother! How can Nupes be 60% of Niger state? Do u know Niger state at all? Nupes at most are 40% of Niger state.
Nupes dominate only 8 LGAs out of the 25 LGAs in Niger state (Niger south) and are found substantially in 2 other LGAs outside Niger south.

Niger east is dominated by Gbagyis/Gbari and other tribes like Kamuku, Koro and Kadara.
while Niger north has many tribes.

Also, U cannot authoritatively classify Kakanda as Nupe people. Yes they speak a Nupe language but they sometimes claim a distinct identity just the same way Gbari and Gade sometimes claim a distinct identity from Gbagyis. The same thing with Bassa people(of kogi, fct and Nasarawa state), Kupa people (kogi state) and Dibo people (fct). All these people speak Nupe dialects, but they sometimes claim a distinct identity from Nupe. But Tiv is Tiv anywhere, no divisions.

Tiv cloth weaver

Nowenuse:


Haba my brother! How can Nupes be 60% of Niger state? Do u know Niger state at all? Nupes at most are 40% of Niger state.
Nupes dominate only 8 LGAs out of the 25 LGAs in Niger state (Niger south) and are found substantially in 2 other LGAs outside Niger south.

Niger east is dominated by Gbagyis/Gbari and other tribes like Kamuku, Koro and Kadara.
while Niger north has many tribes.

Also, U cannot authoritatively classify Kakanda as Nupe people. Yes they speak a Nupe language but they sometimes claim a distinct identity just the same way Gbari and Gade sometimes claim a distinct identity from Gbagyis. The same thing with Bassa people(of kogi, fct and Nasarawa state), Kupa people (kogi state) and Dibo people (fct). All these people speak Nupe dialects, but they sometimes claim a distinct identity from Nupe. But Tiv is Tiv anywhere, no divisions.

Nigerians should have grown past this unnecessary divisions. they should learn from the Yoruba, and come together as one ethnic nation.

macof:


Nigerians should have grown past this unnecessary divisions. they should learn from the Yoruba, and come together as one ethnic nation.

Yoruba and Igbo ethnic identities were purely creations of the British colonial masters!
Prior to colonialism, some yoruba sub tribes never adressed themselves as yorubas. Ijebus, Ikales, Ilajes, Akoko, Okuns, Egbas, Awori e.t.c never adressed themselves as yorubas and some of them were never even under Oyo empire.

The same thing with igbo land. Ngwa clans, Ezza-izzi, Nsukka, Arochukwu, Ukwa, Anioma, Onitsha e.t.c never considered themselves as ethnic igbos and even till today some do not agree that they are igbos.

The british failed to unite the tribes of the middlebelt because they wanted to lump all our people under the rule of the caliphate for their administrative convenience of indirect rule.
If the british had united us. The middlebelt would have not been ethnically diverse as it is today. And as it stands, every ethnic nation and subnation hav their prides and no one would be ready to submit to the dominance of the other, hence the reason why ethnic merges can no longer work. Only the colonial masters can arrange that .

Nowenuse:


Yoruba and Igbo ethnic identities were purely creations of the British colonial masters!
Prior to colonialism, some yoruba sub tribes never adressed themselves as yorubas. Ijebus, Ikales, Ilajes, Akoko, Okuns, Egbas, Awori e.t.c never adressed themselves as yorubas and some of them were never even under Oyo empire.

The same thing with igbo land. Ngwa clans, Ezza-izzi, Nsukka, Arochukwu, Ukwa, Anioma, Onitsha e.t.c never considered themselves as ethnic igbos and even till today some do not agree that they are igbos.

The british failed to unite the tribes of the middlebelt because they wanted to lump all our people under the rule of the caliphate for their administrative convenience of indirect rule.
If the british had united us. The middlebelt would have not been ethnically diverse as it is today. And as it stands, every ethnic nation and subnation hav their prides and no one would be ready to submit to the dominance of the other, hence the reason why ethnic merges can no longer work. Only the colonial masters can arrange that .

Can you pls shut up..igbo was not a creation of British. ...before the advent of British there was igbo ukwu,obi igbo and igbuzor where mungo partk died ...igbo had been in existence before the British came
People bear igbo names like igbokwe,igbodi, igbodo, etc

baboons and monkeys at it again! BEFORE the British came,or before Lucifer decide the should came,we bear the name "Nnamdi"=meaning my redemer leaveth .We existed as a people and we acknowledge the existence of GOD contrary to what the tiger face people are telling every body.the even said that they failed from Skype with bag of sand and chicken but today the have put aside that argument realizing how stuupid it is

tonychristopher:


Can you pls shut up..igbo was not a creation of British. ...before the advent of British there was igbo ukwu,obi igbo and igbuzor where mungo partk died ...igbo had been in existence before the British came
People bear igbo names like igbokwe,igbodi, igbodo, etc

Did you say Mungo Park died in Igbouzor?

The things I see on Nairaland eh...!

Wulfruna:


Did you say Mungo Park died in Igbouzor?

The things I see on the Nairaland eh...!

Oh is it petrifying ..pardon my oversight MUNGO PARK DIED AT IBUSA WHICH IS ANGLIZED VERSION OF IGBUZOR.....now why don't you research IBUSA/IBUSA/igbuzor/igbobinuzor

tonychristopher:


Oh is it petrifying ..pardon my oversight MUNGO PARK DIED AT IBUSA WHICH IS ANGLIZED VERSION OF IGBUZOR.....now why don't you research IBUSA/IBUSA/igbuzor/igbobinuzor

Listen, my good man. Mungo Park did not die in Ibusa or Igbuzor. He never came anywhere near Ibusa or even Southern Nigeria for that matter.

Mungo Park died in Bussa which was a town in what is now Niger State in Northern Nigeria.

Try not to confuse yourself.

Wulfruna:


Listen, my good man. Mungo Park did not die in Ibusa or Igbuzor. He never came anywhere near Ibusa or even Southern Nigeria for that matter.

Mungo Park died in Bussa which was a town in what is now Niger State in Northern Nigeria.

Try not to confuse yourself.

Not3d but the issue isn't mungo park Mr man ...the issue is Britain creating igbo tribe which is lie

tonychristopher:


Can you pls shut up..igbo was not a creation of British. ...before the advent of British there was igbo ukwu,obi igbo and igbuzor where mungo partk died ...igbo had been in existence before the British came
People bear igbo names like igbokwe,igbodi, igbodo, etc

I believe u really did not get the point am trying to make.

Igbo existed before the british came, yes i know. But d definition of igbo before the british came did not include all the present day areas that identify themselves as igbo today. Likewise yoruba.
Only parts of Imo, Anambra and probably parts of Abia & Enugu too identified themselves as igbo before the british came. Ngwas, Nsukkas, Ukwuanis, Enuanis (including Onitsha), Ezza-izzis, Afikpos, e t c did not identify themselves as igbo people before the british came.

The same with yoruba. Yoruba was a pure definition of OYO people alone. Ijebus, Aworis, ekitis, egbas, akoko, Okuns, Igbomina, ikales e.t.c never identified themselves as yorubas before the british came and did the lumping up and joining up of similar groups of languages/tribes under the Yoruba or Igbo umbrella.
Only d hausas had their ethnicity clearly defined before the british came because Danfodio had already conquered and united all the hausa states before the british came.

This is d point am trying to make!

Nowenuse:


Yoruba and Igbo ethnic identities were purely creations of the British colonial masters!
Prior to colonialism, some yoruba sub tribes never adressed themselves as yorubas. Ijebus, Ikales, Ilajes, Akoko, Okuns, Egbas, Awori e.t.c never adressed themselves as yorubas and some of them were never even under Oyo empire.

The same thing with igbo land. Ngwa clans, Ezza-izzi, Nsukka, Arochukwu, Ukwa, Anioma, Onitsha e.t.c never considered themselves as ethnic igbos and even till today some do not agree that they are igbos.

The british failed to unite the tribes of the middlebelt because they wanted to lump all our people under the rule of the caliphate for their administrative convenience of indirect rule.
If the british had united us. The middlebelt would have not been ethnically diverse as it is today. And as it stands, every ethnic nation and subnation hav their prides and no one would be ready to submit to the dominance of the other, hence the reason why ethnic merges can no longer work. Only the colonial masters can arrange that .

yoruba was nt the creation of colonial powers please. our unity as a single group came during colonial times but our brotherhood has lasted since the time of Greats like Oranmiyan, Sango, Orangun etc

the middle belt lack this brotherhood. ..what binds the various yoruba subgroups together is smeared all over

However I'm concerned about Groups in the middle belt still claiming distinct Identities when they are obviously related enough to be considered one ethnic nation