SirJohn:

"Touch Not the Lord's Anointed," The familiar recourse of the deceiver and the deceived whenever falsehood and deceit is being exposed. Perhaps we should take a moment to trash this issue once and for all.
Let’s take a look at the scripture for a moment:

"And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant, saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance; When they were but a few men in number; yea, very few, and strangers in it. When they went from one nation to another, and from one kingdom to another people; He suffered no man to do them wrong; yea, he reproved kings for their sakes; Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm." (Psalm 105:10-15.)

Many preachers today teach that if anyone criticizes them, or finds fault with them in any way, or goes against their wishes, then that miserable fellow has "Touched the Lord's anointed." Many eloquent sermons have been preached to warn those who would dare commit such a sin that they face the unmitigated wrath of Almighty God. But is it what that verse really talks about?

The immediate context of the verse is a reference to the patriarch Jacob, who was not an ordained preacher, at least not as we would understand that concept today. Just what kind of hazard was Jacob in fear of as he wandered from one nation to another people? Did he live in mortal dread that someone, somewhere, would criticize him? No, his concern was that the heathen would use physical violence against him. Read his complaint in

Genesis 34:30: "And Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, Ye have troubled me to make me to stink among the inhabitants of the land, among the Canaanites and the Perizzites: and I being few in number, they shall gather themselves against me, and slay me; and I shall be destroyed, I and my house."

It is clear that to touch the Lord's anointed is to commit an act of physical violence against the one anointed by God. It does not refer to those who verbally attack and criticize a preacher and his doctrine. Such verbal attacks may be quite wrong and sinful, and in some cases they may be commendable and necessary

(see Jesus criticizing the Pharisees in Matthew 23, Paul criticizing Peter in Galatians 2:14-21, Paul versus the Judaizers in Galatians 5:12, Philippians 3:2, etc.) but they are not covered by the idea "Touch not the Lord's anointed."

You made reference to I Samuel 24:6-7, where David had an opportunity to have King Saul killed, but refused to take advantage of it: "And he said unto his men, The Lord forbid that I should do this thing unto my master, the Lord's anointed, to stretch forth mine hand against him, seeing he is the anointed of the Lord. So David stayed his servants with these words, and suffered them not to rise against Saul. But Saul rose up out of the cave, and went on his way." Immediately afterward, David publicly criticized Saul in front of 3000 of Saul's troops, as well as his own 600 men, saying "The Lord judge between me and thee, and the Lord avenge me of thee: but mine hand shall not be upon thee. As sayeth the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked, but mine hand shall not be upon thee." (1 Samuel 24:12-13.) No one seemed to feel that David was touching the Lord's anointed by this open rebuke of Saul. It is clear that to touch the Lord's anointed involved violence against his person, not criticism, rebuke or reproof.

Why, then, do we hear so much whining from preachers today who warn their followers, and their critics, not to touch the Lord's anointed? Just what do these preachers have to hide, and what are they so anxious to cover up?

To rebuke a preacher who has committed errors of false doctrine or practice cannot be the sin of touching the Lord's anointed, because it does not involve the use or threat of physical violence. Such rebuke is appropriate and even commanded in certain instances. "But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed." (Galatians 2:11.) "Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." (Titus 1:13.) "Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear," (1 Timothy 5:19-20.) The office of elder here is the same as the scriptural office of bishop or pastor and they could not be higher in rank than the Apostle Peter, who Paul rebuked publicly before the congregation of Antioch.

WHO THEN IS THE LORDS ANOINTED?
Since we are instructed so many times that we must not touch the Lord's anointed, it might help to check out the New Testament and find out just who are the Lord's anointed today. In 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 we read;
"Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; who also hath sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts." The Apostle John tells us, "But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things,  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." (1 John 2:20,27.)

There we have it - all Christians are the Lord's anointed. How could it be otherwise? In Old Testament times, only some believers were priests, but in this age of grace, we are all priests: "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ ,  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light." (1 Peter 2:5,9.)

So my dear Prizeless, in the light of this glorious truth,  you are just as guilty because I am also the Lords Anointed.

nannymcphee:
1. Who was God referring to in this verse

nannymcphee:
2.Does this verse cover all Christians who are anointed or its strictly for MEN OF GOD

nannymcphee:
3. If its not exclusive to MEN OF GOD alone, how come its not used when a Christian who isn't a leader is being slandered

nannymcphee:
4a.As a Christian police officer, If I catch a MAN OF GOD committing a crime, should I arrest him or turn the other way becos of this verse??

nannymcphee:
4b. As a Christian police officer, if the use of excessive force is required to restrain a violent MAN OF GOD, should I use such force or let him continue his attack
(For Q4a & b, i ask becos the verse says do the prophet no harm)

nannymcphee:
5a. As a Christian judge, should I recuse myself from a case involving a MAN OF GOD

nannymcphee:
5b.As a Christian judge, should I free a guilty MAN OF GOD

1. Who was God referring to in this verse

2.Does this verse cover all Christians who are anointed or its strictly for MEN OF GOD

3. If its not exclusive to MEN OF GOD alone, how come its not used when a Christian who isn't a leader is being slandered

4a.As a Christian police officer, If I catch a MAN OF GOD committing a crime, should I arrest him or turn the other way becos of this verse??

4b. As a Christian police officer, if the use of excessive force is required to restrain a violent MAN OF GOD, should I use such force or let him continue his attack

(For Q4a & b, i ask becos the verse says do the prophet no harm)

5a. As a Christian judge, should I recuse myself from a case involving a MAN OF GOD

5b.As a Christian judge, should I free a guilty MAN OF GOD

(For Q5a & b, I ask becos proponents of this verse, usually say leave judgement for God who called them)

PS:pls don't tell me a MAN OF GOD can't be violent or does no wrong, because we have had case where some did

pls don't also tell me that no genuine MAN OF GOD Will do those things, that is not the objective of my questions

Kindly provide answers based on the scenarios presented.

Thanks

mbaemeka: 2 Peter 1:21 KJV

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

None of the prophecies or scriptures came from men. They came from the Holy Spirit who moved them to speak or write it down. Will the Holy Spirit move a Christian to act contrary to the scriptures?

Paul didn't rebuke Peter because he was "just" wrong. He rebuked him because Peter was within Paul's jurisdiction which was Galatia- a region Paul had established a church. The same Paul when he met with James and the other elders in Jerusalem didn't rebuke them even though they admonished Gentiles to imbibe some Jewish customs as part of their salvation "duties". He simply obeyed them there and kept mum but when he wrote to his churches he taught otherwise.

There is a due process in God's house for the Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion or a proponent of dissension and rank-breaking. But if any MOG fails in the law of the land then let him be punished by the law of the land and if he fails in the law of God then let God himself punish him amicably.

Going by what Image123 had already said when David had the opportunity to kill Saul he refused to and when one of his soldiers offered to do it David called Saul "the Lord's annointed". Remember that David too was the Lord's anointed (and even more anointed than Saul if I may add) but when he learned about Saul's death he exclaimed "How are the mighty fallen?" before he instructed his men not to tell the story amongst the Heathens (Garth in the context). He didn't call Saul a demon-possessed Charlatan or fraud that God had punished. Instead with tears he queried why such a mighty man had fallen so ignominiously.

I am not a proponent of anything except I declare unequivocally that I am. Just thought to add that.

Gombs:

All... we are to judge none, touch none, not by mouth, pen or however

Define the word 'crime' ...because, they said Chris Oyakhilome commited a crime too.... but if you find him breaking traffic rules or give bribes etc...Arrest him, you are doing your job! Make sure you don't do the arresting in the church!

nannymcphee:

Q1.Kindly explain what Paul was addressing in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13


12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

Q2.where do you get this notion of by pen or by mouth? All the verses preceding the "touch not my....." talks about assault or physical harm

pls don't bring in names so that the thread won't be derailed.

Why can't I arrest a pastor in church when he has broken the law?

A friend of mine worked for a Pastor of a well known church(name withheld) . him & his crew were owed for 6months, no pay

The pastor gave instructions to the security guys not to allow them into the office complex, they did the job offsite, they tried all they could to get his attention to no avail

So one Sunday, they all decided to go to his church, the pastor didn't notice them, unfortunately for the pastor he was the first to speak during testimony time, my friend took the mic & narrated everything & that the congregation should pls join him in begging the pastor to pay.

long story short, the pastor paid them the next day.

question: Did my friend do wrong by going to the church to do this?

Gombs:

Now, I don't have full details, maybe your friend didn't do as they agreed, but if all conditions are met, and the pastor refuses pay (highly unlikely), then cops gotta get him, that's nafter all means has been exhausted.

That is soooooo wrong and God would not be pleased at such. There are order in God’s house, your friend could have met an elder in the church quietly, he disregarded the church and the office of the Pastor, not the man, but the office.

What was his gain now? Proving the pastor is 'wicked' or 'evil'? to what end? Folks sha. Don’t forget, maybe you didn't have the full details, the pastor might ot be aware of the debt, if he were, maybe there was a breach of contract, if there wasn't, you can’t conveniently tell me someone worked for you, and you deliberately withheld pay for no reason at all

He should go beg God...you need understand something, the church of God DOES not practice democracy, you don't always have freedom of expression and 'rights'... what happened to humility? Patience? Endurance? Love? Etc even if the pastor was wrong, what happened to his Christian morals? Who was he like in the Bible?

nannymcphee:

This story is not nollywood or "them say", the job was offshore & the company was owned by the pastor, find out from folks who work offshore, the moment u hit town, ur alert come in,

my friend held his part of the bargain

If my friend disregarded the church & office of the pastor, what about the pastor that went against Gods word that talks about paying workers their wages & being truthful & honest?? Didn't the pastor dishonor God, the church & his office? (I hope touch not will not apply here)

The long story I skipped was that, there was a visiting senior pastor from headquarters that Sunday, he told them they should see him after service

The pastor claimed that the client had not paid, hence the delay in payments

My friend called someone from the clients firm who worked with the account dept, the call was placed on speaker & he confirmed that they weren't owing the pastors firm

I'm shocked at ur responses, u left the pastor & focused on my friend, who is in a better position to walk in the light of the questions u asked above? The pastor or the lay member

Let me borrow ur words, what happened to the pastors love?

What happened to the pastors Christian moral?

Who has the pastor acted like in the bible?

Why did the pastor order the guards not to let them into the office complex?

why did the pastor lie that he was being owed?

At the end of the day, who brought shame to the body of Christ? The pastor or my friend?

I'm earnestly waiting for the answers to this questions

I hope u won't feed the me the "touch not"

My friend did not cause commotion in church, he simply stated the facts, that he had worked without pay & they should join him in begging the pastor to pay up

I hope u earn a living, how will be like for u to work 6months without pay, with a wife & kids?

I don't know where u live, in Nigeria here, some companies owe staffs salaries for months & still threaten them with sack should they decide not to come to work

So why should a Christian business owner practice this? Not to talk of a pastor!

so what exactly should my friend beg God for?

Twisting the Word of God
Touch not my anointed and do my prophets no harm!(Psalms 105:15 KJV)

Some discipleship groups interpret this verse to mean that we shouldn't question or say anything negative against our leaders. This interpretation squelches legitimate questions or complaints that might stop errors. Leaders who adopt this slant on scripture become almost immune from accountability to their people. This is only one example of the ways in which abusive discipleship groups may use Bible verses. Passages are often taken out of context and their true meanings distorted; but these groups also correctly interpret many verses. That is why it is so difficult to see what they are doing.

Gilbert Trusty, a former pastor who used this passage to control his flock now explains...

This particular concept is so twisted, so groundless that it would be funny if it was not so sad. In context, in those verses (Psalms 105:9.15) (KJV) God is talking about the patriarchs, about how He protected them, about how He kept Abraham's life. The main thing the scripture was dealing with is when Abemelech took Sarah into his harem. God wanted Abraham to keep his wife. God was protecting Abraham because from him was going to come a nation and from that nation was going to come the Messiah. Also John tells us that in the body of Christ we each have the anointing of God. (1 John 2:20-27) This anointing does not apply only to the man behind the pulpit; we each have the anointing of God. The Holy Spirit is available to every one of us. We can be filled as we open ourselves and yield to God. It's not just one man, or some church leaders on earth who God has set apart anointed. "Touch not my anointed" refers to all of us who are in the body of Christ.

Many times people forget that this scripture could never be used to mean that sheep should not question their leaders. A good leader should be honored and respected; but we are instructed (1 Thes. 5:21). to prove all things. First Tim 3:10 says that deacons must be proved. According to Revelations 2:2, even those who call themselves apostles should be tried. Jesus commends them because they tried those who called themselves apostles and found they were false. In abusive discipleship the mere fact that someone is a leader means that I should never say anything critical about that leader.

What a nice position! To be a leader when your flock feels that they can't be critical of you without going against God! But this is very dangerous for the flock.

The foundation of the discipleship movement is the authority of the discipler. What distinguishes discipleship relationships from the typical relationship between a pastor and the flock is that the discipler is granted a significantly greater authority to guide the directions and decisions of the disciple. Could this possibly be Biblical, that a young Christian lay person is granted power to oversee souls? This heightened authority may be communicated directly to disciples through teaching, combined with an insistence that disciples be submissive, obedient, trusting and broken. Another way in which the excessive authority is indirectly communicated is by the way in which a leader exercises authority over the disciple. The church has always held that both the content of a leader's doctrine and the leader's behavior are important. (1 Tim. 3:1.13; Tit. 1:5.11; 1 Pet. 5:2,3)

Gombs:

Let God judge the man, not you or your friend. Does two wrongs make a right?

but your friend thought testimony time was far better, no?

aha, at least now there was an explanation..the first post you had earlier suggested the pastor did not even want to see them.

see na! Someone..was that someone a senior staff? if yes, does he or she work with finance department? why didn't he call the Boss of that firm? My point here is that there is obvious communication glitch... a whole lot

You see it so, because you wanted me to see it from your friend's perspective, remember, everyone is right in their own eye. you didnt hear the Pastor's side of the story, did you?

you claiming he lied based on what your friend told you, for Pete's sake he may have called a cleaner or security man he knew working there, for it is against company standard t give information to "strangers" especially went money payments are involved.

your friend... No matter how you see it, taking a microphone in church to complain about a debt and asking the congregants to join him beg their pastor to pay him is not justifiable in any way.

i'd be frustrated especially if i know the monies were held for no cogent reasons..but should that make me go to the church and announce that their pastor refuse paying me? of all sensible ways of getting the debt paid? aren't their elders in that church he could first complain to? aren't there christian bodies in that state hew could write to? did he pray about it? He should have gone to the press na! He did the job with the Pastor's company, NOT the church!

Did he threaten to sack your friend? this is a new detail o

for disregarding the presence of God in the gathering of brethren. If the governor was sitting there in the congregation, would he have gone to the front with a microphone to announce the said debt? He can't... He'd not dare.

LambanoPeace: WinsomeX, rather than answer the OP, you went an the usual essays, finally attempting the OP... when would you understand that long gists in a forum like this is not sellable?

LambanoPeace: WinsomeX, rather than answer the OP, you went an the usual essays, finally attempting the OP...

LambanoPeace: WinsomeX... when would you understand that long gists in a forum like this is not sellable?

I'm amazed at your response! My friend tried all avenue to get across to the pastor but could not, they were bared from entering the office complex, that's why he chose that extreme step

There is no glitch, the company is a small company owned by the pastor

What's his own story, he is the owner of the company, the client has paid him & he had refused to pay his workers

My friend called his friend who is an accountant in the clients firm, who confirmed the pastors company had been paid

He didn't complain, it was testimony time & simply stated the facts, no commotion was caused, it was at that point, the visiting senior pastor told them(my friend & his crew) to see him after service

Excuse me, why did the pastor Barr them from entering the office complex.

A pastor that could lie to a senior pastor?

What then can the elder do who is under the pastor?

Excuse me, i have worked for 6momths & you refuse to pay me, you want me to write to Christian bodies & pray? Wow

He didn't, I only used that to buttress what's happening in other circles

Yes he would have!! Gods presence was not disregarded, it was the pastor that disregarded the house of God.

Image123:

Yet i think i recall his alter ego drumb, telling Gombs that he had outgrown that style of writing, whatever that means.

nannymcphee: 1peter 2:23

Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously

the verse above is talking about Jesus

Luke23:33-34

33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Acts7:59-60

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Luke9:54-56

54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.And they went to another village.


The verses above shows the New Testament practice, where then do we get the present day practice of calling fire & brimestone on those that criticize ministers ?

those that use the story of Miriam or the prophet who command wild beast to devour those kids or even Ananias & sapphira seems to forget that we are in a dispensation of grace & mercy.

If peter had informed sapphira about her husbands demise, before he spoke, she would have told the truth & her life would have been spared. Christians today do worse than what Ananias did & nothing happens to them.

maybe I'm getting it wrong, but seeing the pattern Jesus laid & with verses I listed above, I ask again why do Christians lay curses on folks who criticizes ministers or even insult them?

nannymcphee:


Still waiting for answers to this

Gombs:

I didn't bother ma'am... in all those, Jesus was reported not firing back or threatening or such. How many times have you seen T. B. Joshua, Oyedepo, Oyakhilome, Hinn, Copeland, etc... how many times have they threatened their accusers or rained brimstones on them?

Furnish me with examples if you have any.

I'm anticipating someone asking 'so Jesus and Those you mentioned are now same' or 'so, they are your Jesus now?'

nannymcphee:

I told you before, no mentioning of names!!

Are you telling me present day Christians don't lay curses on those who speak ill of christain ministers?

Gombs:

Sorry Ma'am


That's their level of knowledge, mature sons don't. Meanwhile if you insult minsters of the gospel for whatever reason, you walk in a curse, not that God cursed you, you walk out of blessings with/by your words and/or actions.

Gombs:

Sorry Ma'am


That's their level of knowledge, mature sons don't. Meanwhile if you insult minsters of the gospel for whatever reason, you walk in a curse, not that God cursed you, you walk out of blessings with/by your words and/or actions.

Gombs: Point for me in the OP where he said she is no longer a woman of God...if not, and if u can't, I curse you!

Candour:

This means you're very immature because see you purporting to 'curse' somebody on another thread



https://www.nairaland.com/1892171/pastor-chris-oyakhilome-addresses-whole/22#26156679

And you persisted in the immaturity even after numerous corrections from well meaning individuals.

This is without prejudice to the fact that your curse or any so called mog's curse on any christian is a futile exercise of the vocal cavity and empty rambling from the pit of self delusion. If you're an Eze nmuo or your mog is, let us know for that is another discussion.