Former Minister of Internal Affairs and ex-member of the defunct Armed Forces Ruling Council (AFRC), General Abdullahi Bagudu Mamman, has beaten his chest that he actually saved former military President, General Ibrahim Babangida from disgrace by prevailing on him to drop out of the 2007 presidential race.

In an exclusive interview with Saturday Sun in Abuja, General Mamman, a member of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and Chairman of the Federal Capital Territory Muslim Pilgrims Directorate, also expressed confidence in President Umar Musa Yar’Adua’s ability to take Nigeria to greater height.

He, however, said that Yar’Adua “may have good intentions, but he is surrounded by masquerades pursuing goals parallel to anything good for the generality of our citizens.”

The retired general, who said he had to leave the military prematurely because Babangida imposed his junior as Chief of Army Staff, also disclosed that although he loved his career he never liked the military men governing the affairs of Nigeria.

He spoke on these and other things.

Satisfied with Nigeria ’s current position politically and economically?
Speaking as General Abdullahi Mamman, a Nigerian who has a stake in this country, if you asked me whether I am satisfied with the situation in Nigeria as it is today, I dare say boldly no. Things, to my mind, are not going to the expectation of most of us. One would have expected that at age 48, Nigeria would have gone beyond where it is today. If it is the wish of Allah that we remain where we are, so be it, but I don’t think that Allah, being so loving to human beings, would like us to stagnate so badly.

What is responsible for this?
I don’t know. I can only assume that may be we have not been patriotic enough. We‘ve not been honest enough, and we’ve done too much of lip-service towards most of the things we have been asked to do. I also want to believe that the political era is yet to settle down. Having said that, I believe that those playing the game of politics we have imported from America into this country should have known that in America you play politics not because of the benefits that would accrue to you financially. You would have made money outside before getting into politics.

They play politics to make name as well as to impact on the lives of their citizens. However, the reverse is the case in Nigeria and, therefore, it will take a long time for things to straighten up here. We buy positions in Nigeria. Again, we are paying too much premium, too much emphasis on political patronage in the appointment of people into sensitive areas and by doing that some of the targets you wish to achieve will again take much longer time, because anybody who is conversant with the Nigerian system of politics knows that you spend a lot of money to get a political position, either elective or appointive. So, the first thing that occupies the mind of such a person is how to recoup what he had spent or ‘invested’ in the process. This is exactly what is happening in Nigeria and how do you record quick and good results in this manner?

Yar’Adua is chained by masquerades. The president may mean well, but he is just one individual; the people who surround him are something else; they are masquerades. Mr. President may have positive programmes, but how many of those who are surrounding him wound carry out his order to the letter? He is alone.

Did you advise him?
I made an attempt to see him when he was first elected into office, but I can assure you I became convinced that it is much more difficult for the elephant to pass through the eye of a needle than seeing him. So, I gave up.

You could have gone through Minna Hilltop or Ota Farm?
Oh yes, I knew all that, but there are certain things you can pass through a third party to Mr. President and there are things that need no third party at all. There are things you need to tell him personally. Those things that I could do through a third party, I did by writing here and there, to say things that should be done this way or that way, but the rest I keep to myself.

Babangida and I
I make friends to keep, not friends to kick. Good or bad, friends to keep are needed when the need arises. And I do advise him in truth and no matter how bitter that truth is, I tell it to him. He either takes it or leaves it.

Babangida’s quest for the Presidency
I told him there was no need for him to go back. Ask him anytime and he would tell you I am one of those who told him the bitter truth, because that is what friends are made for. I asked him what was in the leadership of this country that he hadn’t seen. And I also told him that if it was a matter of do or die, on what platform was he thinking of contesting the Presidency? He said PDP and I said, with due respect to you, don’t do it; they would only disgrace you, because they would send you out there to go and conduct primaries with people who should be answering your ‘boys.’ people he made; because he was going to contest with Ali Gusau, the present President (Yar’Adua) and several state governors then who had indicated interest.

And as if to back what I said, the chairman of PDP at that time said they would want, if it were possible, to get their candidates among the serving governors at that time. Then I think he took that advice and withdrew honourably. So, I saved him from the disgrace that would have come with the denial of the PDP ticket.

Does this mean you will never contest in politics?
In fact, I am even surprised that I attempted playing politics, because I grew up as a military man, and the military is an organization that is surrounded and guided by discipline, and to come into politics where anything goes, I saw myself as a misfit. But friends said look, if you all run away from politics, who would then sanitize the political arena? That was why we ventured into it in the first place.

Were you in PDP?
Yes, I still am, one leg in one leg out… (Laughter)

What do you want to become in PDP?
Nothing. Just let politics be played the way it should be played. I am 67. What do I want?

People over 70 want to vie for…?
Good luck to them. I am I; they are they.

What of political appointment, won’t you accept?
Yes, but with a condition. If the appointment were made with the intention that I could contribute something towards making the nation better and they think that I have something to offer, I think it would be morally wrong to refuse. But if it just for political patronage, I would say no thank you.

Being from the FCT, if by coincidence, you are appointed FCT Minister, what will be your priority assignment?
Well, I know what the founding fathers of the new Federal Capital Territory had in mind. I think we should go back to that original intention for the FCT, where travelling from any part of the country will be an equal distance, where justice and equity shall prevail and by that I mean people should be allowed to know that it is wrong for anybody to say Abuja is a virgin land; when it was given, nobody had lived there, that is not true. If it is a mistaken assumption then, that has to be corrected. If the exigencies of our time have made certain people to be resettled, to give way for proper planning, then they must be duly compensated, otherwise what is happening in Niger Delta may be a child’s play when our people are forced to accept injustice.

When they decide to react, I am afraid…because, you see, there are claims in certain quarters that everybody who was an indigene of FCT was resettled and compensated. But I am a typical example of those who were unjustly treated; nobody gave me a kobo, and I am still where I am.

But you are believed to be one of those given the responsibility of compensation?
Well, I am telling you now that being one of those who were supposed to be beneficiaries, who never benefited, that no money was given to resettle. The only two places that an attempt was made was Wuse and Garki village. There was a partial attempt at Karshi, and that is why today there are two Karshis, two Wuses and two Karus because the compensation was not fully implemented.
Sections of those areas compensated are the Wuse, which relocated to Kaduna road, now in Niger State; the same thing applied to the Karshi, along Keffi road in Nasarawa State and of course, Garki II. This is a long story that I can’t finish in hours to come. In fact, in 1976, the amount of money involved in resettlement was so colossal that if government had that kind of money it would have ploughed into the development of the capital. The money was melted into the development of the Federal Capital, at least, that is what they said.

How did A.B. Mamman grow up?
Alhamdu Lillah (thanks to God), whichever type of growth I went through, I remain grateful to the Almighty Creator. However, I got the rough type. In anything that happens to a human life, there is something to gain. I am not one of those who had emerged from a well-to-do family. My father never owned a donkey, which was the easiest form of transportation, not to talk of the tyre of a bicycle. In fact, I lost my father at an early age, when I was just 10 years in 1951.

And from that point on, my education was almost truncated because we couldn’t pay my school fees then right from primary. It was an uncle of my mother who took over the responsibility, and he too failed half way in my secondary school education; the fees of about three shillings per annum and later it became three pounds per annum was to big to pay. Finally, I was charged ten pounds, which he could not pay. So, what I did, through God’s wisdom, was to write to the native authority telling them that I was not doing badly at school, and narrating my problems.

I stated that my education was almost terminating because of reasons x, y, z. I asked for a kind of scholarship even if there was a condition.

My mother was not in any meaningful trade at that time to handle the problem; so the native authority agreed with the condition that I would come and work for them. After finishing my education, I went back to the native authority and told them I was ready for them, but they asked me to wait, that they would call me. I left and then joined the army in 1963, reason being that the army was a government of its own, having branches of several professions. The idea was go there and then further my education. So, I specialized in Artillery. That was because they did special mathematics that I loved and I was good with figures. So, I decided to go and read surveying.

Sojourn in government
I was in government by accident, not by design. I had virtually held every military post commensurate with my rank. I was a member of the Armed Forces Ruling Council (AFRC), the highest decision-making body of the military government then. I didn’t want to have anything to do with military government. But in 1987, under General Babangida, by virtue of my military posting as the Corps Commander Artillery, I was an automatic member of the AFRC. Otherwise, whenever I heard there was a take-over, I prayed to Almighty Allah they should not remember my name for any appointment in that government.

And then came 1990 when we were shown ‘the stick’ in a sublime way. General Babangida, as President, instead of taking somebody from our course or a course ahead of us, he went and took somebody from below us to be the Chief of Army Staff. And, apart from the military consideration I have personal pride and ethical responsibility to observe. I may make things difficult for this man chosen as the Chief of Army Staff, because he could not operate comfortably seeing that there were seniors around; so I chose to quit. Babangida said he still wanted my service, and I said I would give him that outside the uniform. I was thereafter appointed Minister of Internal Affairs and later Minister of Industry and Technology.

Life in the military
I think that’s a misconception people have, that one goes into the army and become something else. No! I think it’s wrong. Like every career, the military was also a career, just we cannot all be permanent secretaries, doctors, lawyers and engineers; so also we cannot all be military men, only some of us would be, and that is the way I saw it. So, I did not believe that in the army you must be a rascal, enjoying only in the company of free women, alcohol and smoking. I think it’s a misconception; otherwise, I would have been a drunk now.

hmmm these abokis and malams! u think say nigeria was given to u or something by god ehuh? make una go join chad ooo!! we don de tired for that side