dein77:



This madly flawed administrative method is also going to be one of the reasons I'm considering leaving the RCCG. It's all hurtful and backward.

Come and see the financial struggle we're experiencing in my parish!

We almost singlehandedly bought the land we are on, we're still building after more than 4 years, bought all the musical instruments, etc.

The most painful part is, even when we got almost nothing from the Province, we still remit about 85 % of our monthly income to the Province. This is callous. The men in my parish are already asking the right questions.

We keep building KM 46 while our local members and pastors are hungry, poor and sad. They barely live decent lives.

I wish to talk more....It's really depressing.

But for the personal revelations given to me by Christ, I would have stopped attending any Church.

I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with the whole arrangements. ...

You folks ought to ask those questions
Why is the headquarters not demanding only 10% why 85%
Is that not a different formula altogether

babyosisi:
I challenge anyone reading to do this,I wrote it earlier
Seek out some very poor families you know in your church and divide that your tithe money into 4 ,give 3 parts to each of that family and the 4th part to your church.
The fulfillment of helping those families is unequaled
That your money may be what they have been praying for to enable them eat that whole week
You don't have to pray to know the poor people in your midst,you can see them with your eyes.
The Church is not giving them a dime from what they collect
It is you and I that are supposed to support them

Pure religion undefiled the Bible says,is to visit the widows and orphans in their affliction and to keep our garments spotless
It is not enriching an already rich pastor

Thanks, my dear.
You're not alone.
A tiny group of us have already started towing that part.
God doesn't need my money; the poor do.
Remember what Jesus said?

As long as ye have done it to one of these, ye have done it to Me.

StarBoard:

babyosisi,
I wish there were more Christians like you.

Really your brains are functioning.

My wife used to go every Saturday to clean the church. RCCg sees us as "workers" and as such they issue instructions based on that ideal.
So if my wife fails for any reason to go clean the church that Saturday, she is liable to querry from her head whivh if not satisfactorily answered could lead to suspension.
Musicians?the last Parish pastor suspended the choir and musicians because he felt they were not "committed".
I rest my case.

I was at a Christian gathering when this issue of cleaning the church came up and a man stood up and said he will never answer that call and will make sure his wife won't be there either ,that they ought to hire cleaners ,the church has reached that level he says and I applauded him
There is a limit to what we should allow these people do
In that church there are jobless men and women who will gladly take $100 per Saturday to clean that whole place
But no
They want you and I to go and sweep and weed the place for free
I understand when a church is growing,I have provided food for functions in a growing church and will do it again and again
But you can't be collecting good money and ask me to cook for a church love feast
Go and hire a caterer,you can afford it and make sure the food is enough
Stop taking the people of God for granted
Of all the money they pay in tithes and offerings feeding them every once in a while won't kill you
Show them you appreciate them

babyosisi:
I challenge anyone reading to do this,I wrote it earlier
Seek out some very poor families you know in your church and divide that your tithe money into 4 ,give 3 parts to each of that family and the 4th part to your church.
The fulfillment of helping those families is unequaled
That your money may be what they have been praying for to enable them eat that whole week
You don't have to pray to know the poor people in your midst,you can see them with your eyes.
The Church is not giving them a dime from what they collect
It is you and I that are supposed to support them

Pure religion undefiled the Bible says,is to visit the widows and orphans in their affliction and to keep our garments spotless
It is not enriching an already rich pastor

I endorse this 100%

dein77:



This madly flawed administrative method is also going to be one of the reasons I'm considering leaving the RCCG. It's all hurtful and backward.

Come and see the financial struggle we're experiencing in my parish!

We almost singlehandedly bought the land we are on, we're still building after more than 4 years, bought all the musical instruments, etc.

The most painful part is, even when we got almost nothing from the Province, we still remit about 85 % of our monthly income to the Province. This is callous. The men in my parish are already asking the right questions.

We keep building KM 46 while our local members and pastors are hungry, poor and sad. They barely live decent lives.

I wish to talk more....It's really depressing.

But for the personal revelations given to me by Christ, I would have stopped attending any Church.

I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with the whole arrangements. ...

Let us do a little reasoning.

Shebi dem say we should give tithe as cash?
How come the parish pastors are largely struggling given that considerable tithe gets into the parish?
At least their flawed version of tithing should reflect in a way that would make you want to say they have a base for their money-tithe argument.
But no, mammon induced greed would suggest that their "pastors" would starve despite all the cash in the house and seek out alternative means to eke a living including all kinds of jamboree doctrines.
Ultimately damaging the body of Christ.

Maybe God didn't want cash as tithe because he knew its effect on the soul of the Levite.

But these liars including the OP would not be bothered to examine their outlandish claims and olace it side by side with what we see.

For me, I would wish that more people who are shackled by these mostly charlatans called pastors.

babyosisi:


I was at a Christian gathering when this issue of cleaning the church came up and a man stood up and said he will never answer that call and will make sure his wife won't be there either ,that they ought to hire cleaners ,the church has reached that level he says and I applauded him
There is a limit to what we should allow these people do
In that church there are jobless men and women who will gladly take $100 per Saturday to clean that whole place
But no
They want you and I to go and sweep and weed the place for free
I understand when a church is growing,I have provided food for functions in a growing church and will do it again and again
But you can't be collecting good money and ask me to cook for a church love feast
Go and hire a caterer,you can afford it and make sure the food is enough
Stop taking the people of God for granted
Of all the money they pay in tithes and offerings feeding them every once in a while won't kill you
Show them you appreciate them

Not sure if majority of those cleaners would even see it that way.
Plus the church is too greedy to pay for anything. As long as the pews are full, no shaking.

In many churches here in the USA including the ones I have been to,every lady receives a gift on Mother's Day
I am talking churches with membership in the hundreds
My former church gave us wallets,beautiful pens and notebooks,tote bags,books etc
Every year was a new gift
Every woman member or not,in church that day got one
That is how to show appreciation
They will provide good dinners for thanksgiving,Easter and sometime in the summer
They will do fun stuff,get floats and kids will jump and musicians will be playing
In place of Halloween we had fall festivals with free hamburgers and hotdogs and desserts and lots of candy and games
That is how to show people they matter
Not beating them upside the head with one project or another
In almost 10 years I was there not a single preaching on tithing as a topic,I never heard a single one
The pastor always thanked the congregation for their faithfulness in giving and in tithes and offerings and that was the extent of it
We had missionaries all over the world and once a year there was a missions Sunday and some of them came home and we saw videos and heard testimonies of the work they do and saw where our money was going.
Our pastor drove a TOyota Camry and was on a fixed income even though he founded the church over 30 years ago
He was just like everyone else
He would stay around and shake hands after church and chat with the congregation
He didn't have servants carrying his Bible and bodyguards heralding his arrival
He was a regular guy with a clear vision of what Church is about

babyosisi:
I challenge anyone reading to do this,I wrote it earlier
Seek out some very poor families you know in your church and divide that your tithe money into 4 ,give 3 parts to each of that family and the 4th part to your church.
The fulfillment of helping those families is unequaled
That your money may be what they have been praying for to enable them eat that whole week
You don't have to pray to know the poor people in your midst,you can see them with your eyes.
The Church is not giving them a dime from what they collect
It is you and I that are supposed to support them

Pure religion undefiled the Bible says,is to visit the widows and orphans in their affliction and to keep our garments spotless
It is not enriching an already rich pastor

I dont limit this to my church and I pay no regard to what my tithe is.
I just give to the needy if I have.

True religion:do these over rich pastors know this?

The way they keep yammering about tithe and offering, who knows.

babyosisi:
In many churches here in the USA including the ones I have been to,every lady receives a gift on Mother's Day
I am talking churches with membership in the hundreds
My former church gave us wallets,beautiful pens and notebooks,tote bags,books etc
Every year was a new gift
Every woman member or not,in church that day got one
That is how to show appreciation
They will provide good dinners for thanksgiving,Easter and sometime in the summer
They will do fun stuff,get floats and kids will jump and musicians will be playing
In place of Halloween we had fall festivals with free hamburgers and hotdogs and desserts and lots of candy and games
That is how to show people they matter
Not beating them upside the head with one project or another
In almost 10 years I was there not a single preaching on tithing as a topic,I never heard a single one
The pastor always thanked the congregation for their faithfulness in giving and in tithes and offerings and that was the extent of it
We had missionaries all over the world and once a year there was a missions Sunday and some of them came home and we saw videos and heard testimonies of the work they do and saw where our money was going.
Our pastor drove a TOyota Camry and was on a fixed income even though he founded the church over 30 years ago
He was just like everyone else
He would stay around and shake hands after church and chat with the congregation
He didn't have servants carrying his Bible and bodyguards heralding his arrival
He was a regular guy with a clear vision of what Church is about

I know it from my church here in europa that the church make something for their followers like you write it but not so much.

Off sided arguments as usual.
How d tithe is managed isnt ur business. There's a judgemnt day, where God will judge His people.
You dont judge . That's God's work. To begin with most of your judgemnts are incorrect because you dont hav perfect knowledge of the situation.

That churches in d u.s are more loving instead just proves tht they practice d word more. That's y theyre d biggest influences in chritendom,it has nothng to do with tithing.

asalimpo:
Off sided arguments as usual.
How d tithe is managed isnt ur business. There's a judgemnt day, where God will judge His people.
You dont judge . That's God's work. To begin with most of your judgemnts are incorrect because you dont hav perfect knowledge of the situation.

That churches in d u.s are more loving instead just proves tht they practice d word more. That's y theyre d biggest influences in chritendom,it has nothng to do with tithing.

Even Christ didn't consider tithe as something weight. ...

No one will ever go to Heaven or Hell because they tithed or didn't. ...

Get it.

asalimpo:
Off sided arguments as usual.
How d tithe is managed isnt ur business. There's a judgemnt day, where God will judge His people.
You dont judge . That's God's work. To begin with most of your judgemnts are incorrect because you dont hav perfect knowledge of the situation.

That churches in d u.s are more loving instead just proves tht they practice d word more. That's y theyre d biggest influences in chritendom,it has nothng to do with tithing.

Even Christ didn't consider tithe as something weighty.

No one will ever go to Heaven or Hell because they tithed or didn't. ...

Get it.

Lilimax:
Tithing is a spiritual exercise and does not require any consultations before performing. I pay my tithe always and the devourers are being rebuked for me.

I stopped tithing many years back and didn't allow myself to think my blessings are tied to tithing or not but to christ. I have been more blessed than ever. ..you don't want me boast of my blessings in Christ that even some tithers don't have, do you?

Goshen360:


I stopped tithing many years back and didn't allow myself to think my blessings are tied to tithing or not but to christ. I have been more blessed than ever. ..you don't want me boast of my blessings in Christ that even some tithers don't have, do you?

Good for you but follow your mind.
As for me, I've decided to be tithing and I'm pleased with it

Lilimax:
Good for you but follow your mind.
As for me, I've decided to be tithing and I'm pleased with it

It doesn't matter. What we're trying to establish is what you just said above ^ tithe or not, doesn't make any better or more blessed or richer etc. Even for devourer, tithe doesn't rebuke it or not for those who tithe or doesn't tithe. So, why are YOU attributing devourer to YOUR TITHING?

My take on tithe things is this. There is nothing bad about Tithing even if we all agree to it being scriptural or not, since it is part of giving.
The law of seed and harvest is universal. The bible promised that believers will lend to nation but today we see pple who are giving to nations. Bill Ghates, Mark of facebook etc.
The real issue is the way we develop rich christian empire in a poor and retrogressing country. If the church want to earn enough respect we need to go back to the vision of missionary that brought faith to us. Men of God need to show modesty in fragrance display of their wealth in the public by being conscious that there is so much poverty around them. Apostle Paul stressed this point 1Corinth.10:23-24
Church need to focus on societal wealth instead individual wealth.
Infact church should take over the social work from this disaster we call government. This is the way our righteousness can be more than that of pharisees.
We should be conscious that unbelivers are building better country than ours, this should be our challenge in Nigeria if we as church want to remain relevant.

waldigit:
My take on tithe things is this. There is nothing bad about Tithing even if we all agree to it being scriptural or not, since it is part of giving.
The law of seed and harvest is universal. The bible promised that believers will lend to nation but today we see pple who are giving to nations. Bill Ghates, Mark of facebook etc.
The real issue is the way we develop rich christian empire in a poor and retrogressing country. If the church want to earn enough respect we need to go back to the vision of missionary that brought faith to us. Men of God need to show modesty in fragrance display of their wealth in the public by being conscious that there is so much poverty around them. Apostle Paul stressed this point 1Corinth.10:23-24
Church need to focus on societal wealth instead individual wealth.
Infact church should take over the social work from this disaster we call government. This is the way our righteousness can be more than that of pharisees.
We should be conscious that unbelivers are building better country than ours, this should be our challenge in Nigeria if we as church want to remain relevant.

Thanks for the above post. Infact I need to see you in person and give you a warm handshake.

You've said it all. The Church needs to do more. Enough of all these public show of stupendous wealth and pomp; none is following us to the grave.

We need to create something close to the Heaven we all are heading in the hereafter.

waldigit:
My take on tithe things is this. There is nothing bad about Tithing even if we all agree to it being scriptural or not, since it is part of giving.
The law of seed and harvest is universal. The bible promised that believers will lend to nation but today we see pple who are giving to nations. Bill Ghates, Mark of facebook etc.
The real issue is the way we develop rich christian empire in a poor and retrogressing country. If the church want to earn enough respect we need to go back to the vision of missionary that brought faith to us. Men of God need to show modesty in fragrance display of their wealth in the public by being conscious that there is so much poverty around them. Apostle Paul stressed this point 1Corinth.10:23-24
Church need to focus on societal wealth instead individual wealth.
Infact church should take over the social work from this disaster we call government. This is the way our righteousness can be more than that of pharisees.
We should be conscious that unbelivers are building better country than ours, this should be our challenge in Nigeria if we as church want to remain relevant.

i agree with you. But the bible is always many steps ahead. The bible says because iniquity shall abound the love of many will wax cold. How true!
The missionaries impact africa for good and their impact turned the continent from a totally dark continent to a less primitive one. How? because some group of people were willing to forsake their own comfort,i.e they didnt love their lives.. But took on d burden of bringing christ to a heathen world.
They established schools, not for profit,
they taught freely, they learnt d language they gave their lives.
Many died in native africa from wild animals,malaria etc.
Look at africa today,
mega churches going into business. Opening and running schools but so expensive only d rich can afford it.
A church can make money but a church can also b charitable. As poor as Jesus was on earth, He still gave to d poor! Think of it?
If you read the oT you find the economy was a charitable one, the farmer wasnt to harvest all his crops so tht the poor cud glean his field.
There were so many parties and feasts were people wud celebrate and share.
God instituted laws governing how employees were to b treated even including work animals.
Wat of the year of jubilee where every 7 years all debts were forgiven?
In Nigerian church its all "pray pray" . No help. No wonder many are fed up with God church religion and so on. Many are just hanging on, so as not to go to hell.
What if the church decided to do something to better the society overall?
The church cant b d financial mother for every1 but with a heart of love it succour most the members in it. Its called bearing one anoda's burden and fulfilling d law of Christ.
Afterall, in the early church, members sold all for the benefit of their brethren.

u read bible different bible verses with contradicting meaning and someone will tell me i need the holy spirit to interprete to me...

asalimpo:
Off sided arguments as usual.
How d tithe is managed isnt ur business. There's a judgemnt day, where God will judge His people.
You dont judge . That's God's work. To begin with most of your judgemnts are incorrect because you dont hav perfect knowledge of the situation.

That churches in d u.s are more loving instead just proves tht they practice d word more. That's y theyre d biggest influences in chritendom,it has nothng to do with tithing.

That is foolish argument
How my contributions to my church are managed is my business
I didn't place my dollars in Christ's hands,my pastor has it
Some churches here in the USA have business meetings and the account is laid bare for every member to see and that is wise
They have a board and carry out audits of the account
It is my money and I have a right to stop putting my funds in there and channel it elsewhere if it is not being used appropriately
No intelligent person would fall for that nonsensical argument anymore,people are no fools
You don't tell me my reward is in heaven or God will judge when you are here collecting yours and also waiting on heaven
God will also judge my stewpity for enabling filthy lucre
If I don't see the practical things you are doing with my money,I would be foolish to keep giving it when there are others that could use it well.
I won't wait to get to heaven to find out when my pastor is here on earth with me demanding tithes

People need to begin to hold their pastors accountable
If it doesn't look right,you must demand transparency in the use of the funds or you go elsewhere or keep your money for other uses
That is the only way they will stop taking advantage of folks and hiding under the cover of ," you are giving to God"
It is a charitable organization where individuals give money to,they should be held accountable for every cent of that money that gets into their hands.

babyosisi:


That is foolish argument
How my contributions to my church are managed is my business
I didn't place in Christ's hands,my pastor has it
Some churches here in the USA have business meetings and the account is laid bare for every member to see and that is wise
They have a board and carry out audits of the account
It is my money and I have a right to stop putting my funds in there and channel it elsewhere if it is not being used appropriately
No intelligent person would fall for that nonsensical argument anymore,people are no fools
You don't tell me my reward is in heaven when you are here collecting yours and also waiting on heaven
If I don't see the practical things you are doing with my money,I would be foolish to keep giving it when there are others that could use it well.
I won't wait to get to heaven to find out when my pastor is here on earth with me demanding tithes

People need to begin to hold their pastors accountable
If it doesn't look right,you must demand transparency in the use of the funds or you go elsewhere or keep your money for other uses
That is the only way they will stop taking advantage of folks

That was indeed a very foolish comment. How on earth can someone in his right senses say it'snot my bbusiness what's done with my money?

Our version of Christianity is indeed very strange and disturbing. Exactly the same way we have shown indifference to the political thieves, hence the backwardness and corruption we are mired in; we are also bearing the sad consequences of that political indifference.

I have every right to know what happens to my money. I don't swallow that nonsense anymore; that was done. Long then.

So much of the cash we gave foolishly weren't used for the purpose they were meant.

I no longer serve God in foolishness. The Bible is clear.

dein77:



That was indeed a very foolish comment. How on earth can someone in his right senses say it'snot my bbusiness what's done with my money?

Our version of Christianity is indeed very strange and disturbing. Exactly the same way we have shown indifference to the political thieves, hence the backwardness and corruption we are mired in; we are also bearing the sad consequences of that political indifference.

I have every right to know what happens to my money. I don't swallow that nonsense anymore; that was done. Long then.

So much of the cash we gave foolishly weren't used for the purpose they were meant.

I no longer serve God in foolishness. The Bible is clear.

its only shallow-bred dimwits produced by charlatan tithe collectors that will try to persuade you with inanities like that.
It's all part of a grand scheme. This is the kind of brainwashing these greedy folks indulge in.

Like madam osisi says God will judge you for everything including how you use your money. The pastor or whatever he or she is can never be equated with God.


When you think that the same political thieves go to these our so called churches and mske donations to our "pastors" and give forged testimonies it begs the question why mr. adeboye (I have lost my respect for him upon closer introspection) can never come out and speak against the ills these politicians are enabling and propagating. He would rather prefer to be in favor with those inbthe corridors of power and accept their filthy offerings.

One thing.
If Christ told Peter to look after the rest ofvthe disciples then it means someone has to take responsibility over the state of believers.
I don't know if tithe collectors like mr. adeboye realizes that when he goes a fishing creating unnecessary parishes that he subjects to turture by making them remit the "tithe" to km 46 without them meeting their immediate needs.
The amount of dodgy sermons I used to hear in some of those parishes makes you ask whether anybody is supervising them.

babyosisi:


That is foolish argument
How my contributions to my church are managed is my business
I didn't place my dollars in Christ's hands,my pastor has it
Some churches here in the USA have business meetings and the account is laid bare for every member to see and that is wise
They have a board and carry out audits of the account
It is my money and I have a right to stop putting my funds in there and channel it elsewhere if it is not being used appropriately
No intelligent person would fall for that nonsensical argument anymore,people are no fools
You don't tell me my reward is in heaven or God will judge when you are here collecting yours and also waiting on heaven
God will also judge my stewpity for enabling filthy lucre
If I don't see the practical things you are doing with my money,I would be foolish to keep giving it when there are others that could use it well.
I won't wait to get to heaven to find out when my pastor is here on earth with me demanding tithes

People need to begin to hold their pastors accountable
If it doesn't look right,you must demand transparency in the use of the funds or you go elsewhere or keep your money for other uses
That is the only way they will stop taking advantage of folks and hiding under the cover of ," you are giving to God"
It is a charitable organization where individuals give money to,they should be held accountable for every cent of that money that gets into their hands.

I agree tht u shd , be watchful and inspectful, but in some orgainsations, gettg tht information is herculean.
The church u described is by nature open and transparent to its members, not so with many others. For many others inspection is done by the church governg members and they dont report to d lay members, not necessarily outta spite, but out of necessity to conserve time.
The church has a vision which every member shud know and b intimitated about its progress,
but there's no way mismanagemnt and misappropriation can b curtailed in a church/ministry except every church member becomes a governg member with powers to vote on how d church funds is used. It would easily degenerate into a political setup with time,
with factions.
It's simply easier to pay ur tithes trustng tht God has received it and rest on tht.

A church/ministry reaps what it sows.

asalimpo:

...
I doubt tht most proponents of no tithing are sincere. Their motive is about wat they can keep back. It's not about really wanting to know and walk in the truth.
Even if it was explicitly spelled out ,tht christians shud tithe most will still not tithe.
God sees ur hearts just come out straight and state ur true stance. You don't wanna tithe cuz you love your money more than God.

In old testament, you could hate ur enemy (law) it was legal and easier.
In the NT, you are to love youe enemies (really harder).

In d OT you cud divorce your wife at a whim, in the NT the only grounds for divorce is adultery (harder)
the list goes on.
So if in the OT it was 10% how much wud it be in d NT?
Anti-tithers imply that it shud be less and optional.

Fact, anti tithers dont wanna tithe cuz they LOVE THEIR MONEY MORE!!

Jesus asked Peter "Loveth these more than these (material things. Fish) "

if you really believe the tithe is of d OT, and done away with, then consistently outgive to God more thn those under the old covent did because u're operating under a higher more powerful covenant.

Just think, would God lead those under an inferior covenant to give 10% but in d better covenant lead you to give less and infrequently?

Good analysis of the motives of the anti-tithers.

OLAADEGBU:


Good analysis of the motives of the anti-tithers.

I weep for you for believing that crap. Christians are brainwashed.

Show me Where Jesus and his Apostles collect " TITHES" ??

CANTICLES:
Show me Where Jesus and his Apostles collect " TITHES" ??

show me where Jesus and his apostles collected offering.

To fight tithing is to fight God's blessing on ur finances.
Tithe honours the One who gave u d provision in d first place.
Proverbs 3v9- says "Honour God with your substance and the first fruit of all your increase " .
Your offering alone isnt enuff, honour of God is required for certain category of blessings.

asalimpo:

show me where Jesus and his apostles collected offering.

INTERESTING !!! You expose another fraud scheme used today like dat of the apostate isrealites :
Whose "priests instruct for a price" Micah 3: 9, 11 .... Exactly whats done today !

Its Clear BOTH Jesus and his Apostles doesnt collect Tithes and Offering !!

This thread was an exciting one back then. Before daddy freeze I was

asalimpo:
To fight tithing is to fight God's blessing on ur finances.
Tithe honours the One who gave u d provision in d first place.
Proverbs 3v9- says "Honour God with your substance and the first fruit of all your increase " .
Your offering alone isnt enuff, honour of God is required for certain category of blessings.

You can honor God with your substance or valuable thing, without having to pay any tithe. That law is gone with animal sacrifices. You can give God much more than tenth of your income. God loves a cheerful giver. The law on tithing has served its purpose for the levites.