Right. So when this occurred to me I was surprised i'd never thought of it before. There is a distinction between not knowing how to speak your language, and not having a language. So I want to know if this is a big deal to Black Americans and also if an average black American sees English as his language, or if black Americans have evolved a language they hold in esteem that most people don't know about?


Can anyone indulge my interest. It's racist I know, but races exist and I don't pretend otherwise

It's called Ebonics

what language do you want them to have?

....add to that the lack of 'culture' and maybe that will explain their identity crisis.
To all who may argue otherwise, hiphop is NOT a culture,!.

dBard:
....add to that the lack of 'culture' and maybe that will explain their identity crisis.
To all who may argue otherwise, hiphop is NOT a culture,!.

they have a culture. Hip pop is part of the culture.African Americans are the most influential and richest blacks in the world. Why is it that most Africans try to immate African American?

this is one of those topics that seem like a good idea on the surface but falls apart after more thought. sorta like the no culture comment above all people have a "culture"

When people say things like this topic I think they mean something more specific but can't quite find the words to articulate it clearly.

Here to read comments

Raiders:
they have a culture. Hip pop is part of the culture.African Americans are the most influential and richest blacks in the world. Why is it that most Africans try to immate African American?

Bin imitated has nothing to do with culture.
Miriam Webster defines culture as;
5a :the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generationsb :the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group;also :the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time <popular culture> <southern culture>

If, going by ur statement, hiphop is part of that culture, wat den are d oda elements??

dBard:


Bin imitated has nothing to do with culture.
Miriam Webster defines culture as;
5a :the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon the capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generationsb :the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group;also :the characteristic features of everyday existence (as diversions or a way of life) shared by people in a place or time <popular culture> <southern culture>
If, going by ur statement, hiphop is part of that culture, wat den are d oda elements??

blacks in America have their own culture that is different from us. I agree they don't have their own language but have ebonics which is a form of pidgin English spoken by the black slaves during slavery. black America have their own foods, names; traditions, form of music and way of life that can be classified as a culture.

Hip hop or Hip-Hop is the form of music expression and artistic culture that originated in African-American communities during the 1970s in New York City. DJ Afrika Bambaataa outlined the four pillars of Hip-hop culture: MCing, DJing, breaking and graffiti writing. Other elements include beatboxing.

Hip hop culture
https://www.princeton.edu/.../Hip_hop_culture.html

9 elements of hip hop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tUaGFI2m5Y

When you say 'don't have their own language', what exactly does that mean? The largest white group in America (by census figures) are Americans of German origin. Is it correct to say they don't have their own language if the only language they speak is English? Black Americans have been part of an English-speaking land since 1619. English is their language. They have owned it.

As for Black Americans not having a culture:

There is a distinctly African-American cuisine
Distinctly African-American forms of musical expression and dance (not just hip-hop, soul, etc)
Distinctly African-American customs concerned with marriage, childbirth, child grooming etc (especially in the South)
'Black Churches' have even developed an air about them that is distinctly African-American.
etc, etc.....


If these aren't traits of a culture, what is?

Radoillo:
When you say 'don't have their own language', what exactly does that mean? The largest white group in America (by census figures) are Americans of German origin. Is it correct to say they don't have their own language if the only language they speak is English? Black Americans have been part of an English-speaking land since 1619. English is their language. They have owned it.

It seems RandomAfricanAm was right. I dont just mean they dont have a language, obviously English is their language. What i mean is.......well lets put it this way.. a German American who is fully American seems to me like he/she would know the people he/she came from and what language they spoke. in this case, German and German. A black American though seems to me like he/she would not. i know its not the fault of the black community but it seems true.

right, so i simply want to know if this is true. and how easily a typical American, black or white can trace their history, past the point of immigration into America, up to their ancestral race. (this sounds so weird, but yeah, i think that what i want to know)

As for Black Americans not having a culture:

There is a distinctly African-American cuisine
Distinctly African-American forms of musical expression and dance (not just hip-hop, soul, etc)
Distinctly African-American customs concerned with marriage, childbirth, child grooming etc (especially in the South)
'Black Churches' have even developed an air about them that is distinctly African-American.
etc, etc.....


If these aren't traits of a culture, what is?

Its very easy to see that black Americans have their own culture, I dont have any disagreements with this.

RandomAfricanAm:
this is one of those topics that seem like a good idea on the surface but falls apart after more thought. sorta like the no culture comment above all people have a "culture"

When people say things like this topic I think they mean something more specific but can't quite find the words to articulate it clearly.

MOBJECTIVE:

It seems RandomAfricanAm was right. I dont just mean they dont have a language, obviously English is their language. ...

...i simply want to know if this is true. and how easily a typical American, black or white can trace their history, past the point of immigration into America, up to their ancestral race. (this sounds so weird, but yeah, i think that what i want to know)

Its very easy to see that black Americans have their own culture, I dont have any disagreements with this.

Now you have narrowed it down to a more concise question.

MOBJECTIVE:
Right. So when this occurred to me I was surprised i'd never thought of it before. There is a distinction between not knowing how to speak your language, and not having a language. So I want to know if this is a big deal to Black Americans and also if an average black American sees English as his language, or if black Americans have evolved a language they hold in esteem that most people don't know about?


Can anyone indulge my interest. It's racist I know, but races exist and I don't pretend otherwise

True but the distinction lies more so in the implications of the means by which you do not know how to speak your language then simply not knowing how to speak it, in which case the outcome is the same either way. So the point should be to assess those implications and figure out how to account for them.

MOBJECTIVE:

...how easily a typical American, black or white can trace their history, past the point of immigration into America, up to their ancestral race. (this sounds so weird, but yeah, i think that what i want to know)

^
^
^
This is the real question to be asked. Everything else is just mental fumbling around to get to this question. The answer is DNA(African Americans) versus word of mouth from family(European Americans).

RandomAfricanAm:



The answer is DNA(African Americans) versus word of mouth from family(European Americans).

^^^^^^^^^^ thank you! this is i think is what i really wanted to know. So black africans can trace their ancestral language but until they go through a dna test they more or less don't know what it is, and so they cant say which "people" they belong to. this is different from the non black americans, who probably learn of their ancestral roots right from childhood simply by asking their parents . if im right, then the question is, does this affect community building based on shared values among the black community?

Radoillo:
When you say 'don't have their own language', what exactly does that mean? The largest white group in America (by census figures) are Americans of German origin. Is it correct to say they don't have their own language if the only language they speak is English? Black Americans have been part of an English-speaking land since 1619. English is their language. They have owned it.

As for Black Americans not having a culture:

There is a distinctly African-American cuisine
Distinctly African-American forms of musical expression and dance (not just hip-hop, soul, etc)
Distinctly African-American customs concerned with marriage, childbirth, child grooming etc (especially in the South)
'Black Churches' have even developed an air about them that is distinctly African-American.
etc, etc.....


If these aren't traits of a culture, what is?

The (op's) confusion arises from defining them as wholly african and nothing else.

Raiders:
they have a culture. Hip pop is part of the culture. African Americans are the most influential and richest blacks in the world.

Richest? How did you arrive at that conclusion? There are millions of Nigerians as rich as or richer than the average black American. Combine that with the rest of the African middle/upper class and it far exceeds the black American population, never mind the actual limited elite within that population.

ROSSIKE:

Richest? How did you arrive at that conclusion? There are millions of Nigerians as rich as or richer than the average black American. Combine that with the rest of the African middle/upper class and it far exceeds the black American population, never mind the actual limited elite within that population.

African-American's total GDP is $2.2 trillion, if African Americans were a country, they'd be the 10th largest country in the world. African-American's are about 15% of the US population, with a estimated population of 42 million people.Africa's total GDP across all 54 countries is $2.3 trillion spread across a approximate population of 900 - 1 billion people. African-American's total GDP is $2.2 trillion with a approximate population of 42 million people, which is a fraction of 3% - 4% of Africa's population.The State of the African-American Consumer Report found that African American GDP is projected to reach $2.9 trillion, with a buying power projected to reach $1.1 trillion by 2015, The Louisiana Weekly reports.The study, which focuses on black spending, media habits and consumer trends, reported an increase in the amount of blacks attending college or earning a degree to 44 percent for men and 53 percent for women. It also found an increase in the number of African American households earning $75,000 or higher by almost 64 percent.

ROSSIKE:

Richest? How did you arrive at that conclusion? There are millions of Nigerians as rich as or richer than the average black American. Combine that with the rest of the African middle/upper class and it far exceeds the black American population, never mind the actual limited elite within that population.

actually, he's right.

@ bolded.

Um the language is English... I don't see what the big deal is? Or how language has to do with self-esteem?

But since the OP does not count English as an "AA language". AA subgroups speak creole and Gullah.

dBard:
....add to that the lack of 'culture' and maybe that will explain their identity crisis.
To all who may argue otherwise, hiphop is NOT a culture,!.

Ignorant posts like this is why I hardly frequent this site like I use to.

Hip Hop IS a culture, though it is a SUB-CULTURE. BUT... Hip Hop is one SMALL PART of African American culture. Saying African Americans don't have a culture is the most retarded thing ever. Black America is large and diverse with different regions; south, northeast, west and midwest having their own culture. Jazz is really big with New Orleans blacks and they like a lot of shrimp in their cuisine(I could be wrong). While blues is big with Mississippi blacks. Blacks on the west coast have their own style separate from other USA blacks.

Black Americans DON't have a identity crisis. We have our own influential culture that is diverse and far wide. So far wide that it is basically the ROOT of all popular music in the West i.e the Blues...

@KidStranglehold

It kinda reminds me of when people say "Americans have no culture" then turn around and complain about cultural imperialism(rightly so!).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyPMyWoDwj0

I think when people say things like this they mean something different then the dry anthropological/academic notion of culture which is quite broad. I think they mean "traditions" & "customs" that are held close to a society which also distinguishes them from other societies thereby branding them as unique. So If they don't see something that those people do that others don't do also they assume they have no culture.

Now If you follow marimba ani she'll tell you that Europeans hide their culture aggression behind the practice of universalism & proselytization. Put another way, the reason much doesn't stick out as unique is because they push their "distinct cultural products" on the rest of the world. (gotta love that "civilizing mission"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl3SbQgjjFk

Coupled with that push is certain aspects of African American culture.... which is why you have Asians b-boys running around

It amazes me how some Africans feel like we as black Americans don't have culture. We are arguably the most imitated group of people in the world. To deny this, would be a big stretch. We have our own music, food, and so on.. As far as economical, one just has to look at the numbers. We are the richest blacks in the world by far. A combination of hard work, ingenuity and being in a country that is full of money for anyone with a brain..

@RandomAfricanAm

Agreed 100%. Not only that but I believe you and a good poster named Supper said a while back that people tend to think that African American culture especially the music is "Europeanized" specifically because our music is not heavy Polyrhythm like other African diasporan music, but it comes from upper West African music which uses strings like Mali. I plan on making a thread on this topic on another site.

Since you're more versed than me on early AA culture, can you mind educating some folks on here how AA music comes from a different part of Africa? I.e the Sahel?

Again the reason why people say "AA's don't have a culture", is because they think our culture/music has no traits from Africa.

KidStranglehold I wanted to find out how easily black Americans (not African Americans) can identify what cultural subgroup they originate from by the language they speak. Obviously they cant do this using English, and if i remember correctly, at the time the logic in my head was that if they cannot identify their roots by the language they currently speak, and/or by their name , then their original language has been lost (i.e so lost, they do not even know what it is, and so can not begin to look for it) . And if the lost languages are never regained or have never been regained, then black Americans currently do not have a language they can call their own. ....that was what i thought, and the assumptions were that the subgroup still exists and their language has been unchanged.

.

^^^ truly idealistic :-)

Ahh you reminded me of the scene from the movie airplane (Sorry, but I have to do it... to funny)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdCjbJ6NEfc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUw2fIa0dSI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fkZdz4Vz10

MOBJECTIVE:
KidStranglehold I wanted to find out how easily black Americans (not African Americans) can identify what cultural subgroup they originate from by the language they speak. Obviously they cant do this using English, and if i remember correctly, at the time the logic in my head was that if they cannot identify their roots by the language they currently speak, and/or by their name , then their original language has been lost (i.e so lost, they do not even know what it is, and so can not begin to look for it) . And if the lost languages are never regained or have never been regained, then black Americans currently do not have a language they can call their own. ....that was what i thought, and the assumptions were that the subgroup still exists and their language has been unchanged.

1. Why are you separating "Black American" and "African American?" The two are really interchangeable.
2. Again why can't English be the language black American language? I mean most Bahamians and Barbadians speak English and not a language "of their own." Does that mean their original language has been lost, especially Bahamians?
3. And like I said many Black American subgroups like the Creoles, Gullahs and many others languages still have strong connection to Africa. Look up the Gullahs. Not only have their culture been preserved, but their language.

Yeah I'm still reluctant to go into the language talk because it's obvious that there are some serious assumptions made in his statement that must be dealt with before anything else can be mentioned.

Understand the component parts of a language (grammar, lexicon(vocabulary, definitions),etc)....

Random Example: Just because two languages share vocabulary words doesn't mean their grammar or definitions are the same.
("Obama" in Luo doesn't share the same definition as "Obama" in Japanese & "edo" in benin doesn't share the same definition as "edo" in Japan)


If things like this aren't known we can't even fully start a meaningful conversation.

@KidStranglehold

By the way I have something you are goin to looooove man!

What if I told you I have two different news paper clippings out of the library of congress showing that African Americans captured and occupied the capital of the confederacy ending the the civil war?

I've collected the documents for African Americans fighting in the civil war and freeing themselves. At this point I'm just compiling everything together. I already have most of the documents, everything from the C.I.A. & library of congress down to laws passed by congress and the obligatory youtube docu summery I like to attach to my serious post.

I'll see if I can PM send you the raw docs before I compile it all because I don't know how long it'll take. I saw you put the other info on "coli dot com"

RandomAfricanAm:
@KidStranglehold

By the way I have something you are goin to looooove man!

What if I told you I have two different news paper clippings out of the library of congress showing that African Americans captured and occupied the capital of the confederacy ending the the civil war?

I've collected the documents for African Americans fighting in the civil war and freeing themselves. At this point I'm just compiling everything together. I already have most of the documents, everything from the C.I.A. & library of congress down to laws passed by congress and the obligatory youtube docu summery I like to attach to my serious post.

I'll see if I can PM send you the raw docs before I compile it all because I don't know how long it'll take. I saw you put the other info on "coli dot com"

[img]http://media0./media/WoYwgrfZP4yw8/giphy.gif[/img]
[img]http://media./media/13k1e8OMVO2a3K/giphy.gif[/img]



This is why you're one of my favorite posters on here...

Please send me it. This type of info NEEDS to be well-known. And RAA I been studying a lot on the Gullah Wars/Seminole Wars ever since you got me hooked on it. This is just finally finding the treasure!