Ubenedictus:


it seems vooks really bullied you.

I have no "junk yard dog's aspersions" for you dear, if you have a good memory you'll remember we had a discussion some time ago, i was highly critical of the way you were throwing passages away because they aren't pauline, and you considered them 2nd class. I still have a very critical view of your theory and i'm sure you've gathered that much. I'm been critical, i am not casting aspersions.

bully!!! ok, if that is the way you see it, well and good. It isn't about me here so I see all he says as one acting based on ignorance. Moreover, I never used none of those lines for you, they were all for my good friend, vooks.

You are yet to find holes in all we have said so far, save for silly excuses from vooks that the message is not as old as he would have liked it to be.

You are blind.
You just accused God of confusion.

A Grace-Age Jewish Christian in first century is bombarded with Grace-less dispensation messages for the Jews, and he is supposed to IGNORE it and look to Pauline epistles for the correct salvation formula. This is the kind of theory you can cook if only you are blessed with the IQ of a marine invertebrate


Cc ayoku826, BabaGnoni

shdemidemi:


bully!!! ok, if that is the way you see it, well and good. It isn't about me here so I see all he says as one acting based on ignorance. Moreover, I never used none of those lines for you, they were all for my good friend, vooks.

You are yet to find holes in all we have said so far, save for silly excuses from vooks that the message is not as old as he would have liked it to be.

Yes sir

5solas:


Seriously? Are you cautious of Arminianism then?

vooks:
You are blind.
You just accused God of confusion.

A Grace-Age Jewish Christian in first century is bombarded with Grace-less dispensation messages for the Jews, and he is supposed to IGNORE it and look to Pauline epistles for the correct salvation formula. This is the kind of theory you can cook if only you are blessed with the IQ of a marine invertebrate


Cc ayoku826, BabaGnoni

Carnality par excellence... I hope at some point you will revert to scriptures to put your point across.

Am actually praying that you will for once appeal to Holy Spirit for doctrine and not man made garbage. Are Spirit filled?

shdemidemi:


Carnality par excellence... I hope at some point you will revert to scriptures to put your point across.

vooks:

Am actually praying that you will for once appeal to Holy Spirit for doctrine and not man made garbage. Are Spirit filled?

Can we appeal to the Holy Spirit when we keep the Holy bible closed and resort to unfounded logical arguments? Open your bible to prove right or wrong based on what the book says and not what you wish it says.

I do not really need to tell you if I am spirit filled or not as the Spirit isn't some energy felt by our senses. But one thing is certain, a spirit filled person sees from the perspective of scriptures and he remains profoundly loyal to the content within it while the carnal mind scamper for secular logic and ego aggrandising methods to address issues.

Are you Spirit filled,negro?

shdemidemi:


Can we appeal to the Holy Spirit when we keep the Holy bible closed and resort to unfounded logical arguments? Open your bible to prove right or wrong based on what the book says and not what you wish it says.

I do not really need to tell you if I am spirit filled or not as the Spirit isn't some energy felt by our senses. But one thing is certain, a spirit filled person sees from the perspective of scriptures and he remains profoundly loyal to the content within it while the carnal mind scamper for secular logic and ego aggrandising methods to address issues.

vooks:
Are you Spirit filled,negro?

I will rather have you address me by my moniker and not by the derogatory 'negro'. Can you do that?

I responded to your question already, touch if you ain't satisfied with my answer.

Happy Lord's Day
You called vooks a thug Negro

shdemidemi:


I will rather have you address me by my moniker and not by the derogatory 'negro'. Can you do that?

I responded to your question already, touch if you ain't satisfied with my answer.

shdemidemi:
There is no attribute of God which self-righteousness does not impugn.
Self-righteousness arises partly from pride, but mainly from ignorance of God’s Word.
Ever since man became a sinner he has been self-righteous.
When he had a righteousness of his own he never gloried of it,
but ever since he has lost it, he has pretended to be the possessor of it
– Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

^^^
Apostasy has been around a long time.
It is a spiritual tragedy with a first occurrence in Eden

In Eden, before the fall, Adam had a bona fide righteousness of his own and a glorified body void of degeneration
but just as it happened to Adam in Eden, departure(s) from the faith (i.e. apostasy), does occur too, among the righteous (i.e. saints)

The apostasy referred to in Matt 24:9-10, however, is hardcore apostasy (i.e. it's apostasy stemmed out of fear, fear which is on steroids)
This kind of apostasy will be associated with turning away from the faith, arising out of persecution and from fear of been put to death for ones faith

As to whether a believer can lose salvation, the Arminians got it wrong from the onset , by their thoughts on freewill. They thought, think and teach that a man's salvation was up to them, a cursory look at scripture and you find that this notion is false and so their whole house crumble. To succeed in their scheme they must get through a whole lot of scripture. For starters:

25 ¶ At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Mt 11.

If man is the author of salvation, then of course salvation can be lost but if God is the author of salvation, then it definitely can't be lost.

Justification, salvation is a covenant made by God ALONE to mankind, no party is involved, it is a done and sealed deal.....through the blood of the everlasting covenant" (Heb. 13:20).

Bidam:
Justification, salvation is a covenant made by God ALONE to mankind, no party is involved, it is a done and sealed deal.....through the blood of the everlasting covenant" (Heb. 13:20).

Amen.

24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.


25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Hebrews 7.

Bidam:
Justification, salvation is a covenant made by God ALONE to mankind, no party is involved, it is a done and sealed deal.....through the blood of the everlasting covenant" (Heb. 13:20).

Simple and strieght forward.
Amen!

Bidam, ichuka, 5solas and others...

Who are those Gentiles Paul says will be cut off if they dont continue in kindness in Romans 11?

Are they Christians or unbelievers?

Shdemidemi challenged me to put up a thread on Dispensationalism and he has opted to ignore it.

This was an opportunity for him to defend his own doctrines outside this thread and he won't show up.
Very interesting
https://www.nairaland.com/2101258/dispensationalists-there-literal-animal-sacrifices

italo:
Bidam, ichuka, 5solas and others...

Who are those Gentiles Paul says will be cut off if they dont continue in kindness in Romans 11?

Are they Christians or unbelievers?

Question: Is it those folks that supports the roots? The truth is when you consistently walk in sin, it is not God that runs away.It is actually you that leaves God. e.g Cain and the prodigal son. The sin mentioned there is unbelief. Until you get to that point when you openly declare you don't need God anymore that's when the cut off comes not the other way round.

We are saved by the grace of God.

We stand in the grace of God.

We grow in the grace of God.

We can't outgrow the grace of God.

The moment you start coming to God by a self righteous effort of works as a right standing before God italo, then you are missing it.

Bidam:
Question: Is it those folks that supports the roots? The truth is when you consistently walk in sin, it is not God that runs away.It is actually you that leaves God. e.g Cain and the prodigal son. The sin mentioned there is unbelief. Until you get to that point when you openly declare you don't need God anymore that's when the cut off comes not the other way round.

We are saved by the grace of God.

We stand in the grace of God.

We grow in the grace of God.

We can't outgrow the grace of God.

The moment you start coming to God by a self righteous effort of works as a right standing before God italo, then you are missing it.

I dont understand.

My question was "are they believers or unbelievers?"

italo:


I dont understand.

My question was "are they believers or unbelievers?"

Like i said the sin is unbelief. So who are they?

Bidam:
Like i said the sin is unbelief. So who are they?

Where does the Bible mention unbelief?

Insightful contribution from everyone. Thank you. Lord fortress bless you all

vooks:
Shdemidemi challenged me to put up a thread on Dispensationalism and he has opted to ignore it.

This was an opportunity for him to defend his own doctrines outside this thread and he won't show up.
Very interesting
https://www.nairaland.com/2101258/dispensationalists-there-literal-animal-sacrifices

When you learn to respect other people's opinions and also refrain from employing derogatory remarks, you can be rest assured I will oblige you.

I have NEVER used derogatory remarks on nobody least of all you.
The thread is still open and if you really think you have ANY BASIS of subscribing to Dispensationalism, this is your moment to shine and more importantly educate us on what the Spirit has been revealing to you. Am sure you would hate to see us wallow in deception and ignorance

shdemidemi:


When you learn to respect other people's opinions and also refrain from employing derogatory remarks, you can be rest assured I will oblige you.

vooks:
I have NEVER used derogatory remarks on nobody least of all you.
The thread is still open and if you really think you have ANY BASIS of subscribing to Dispensationalism, this is your moment to shine and educate us on what the Spirit has been revealing to you. Am sure you would hate to see us wallow in deception and ignorance

I really don't know what motivates your interest in all of this, it does not seem to me like it is the love for God and His Word. This isn't a polical thread that requires all form of underhand methods to win a debate. We are discussing scriptures here, one would not expect lies and gimmicks by people who claim submission to God, rather it should be a sincere opinion based on the wholesome guide, which is the Word of God.

Nor do I know what motivates you to frequent the Religion section of NL my broda.
While am free to speculate on your motives, that's waste of time. You asked for a thread on Dispensationalism and I did just that after you resisted sharing your wisdom on the same.

I have not lied nor engaged gimmicks anywhere and you are free to point them out and I will duly apologize if that is the case

When discussing scriptures, one would imagine that digressing and stalling, sideshows and running away from the same is a sign of fickle faith not to mention subscription to things you can't defend. That is the hallmark of BLIND FAITH. Faith is rational. Faith is logical. Stephen by the Holy Spirit spoke with wisdom that could not be withstood. Christians who can't contend for their faith are a disgrace to the name of Jesus. How would you articulate your faith if you barely understand it?

It takes a sincerely honest and mature mind to ask yourself WHY you believe WHAT you believe. What is the point of clinging to things you can't defend?

shdemidemi:


I really don't know what motivates your interest in all of this, it does not seem to me like it is the love for God and His Word. This isn't a polical thread that requires all form of underhand methods to win a debate. We are discussing scriptures here, one would not expect lies and gimmicks by people who claim submission to God, rather it should be a sincere opinion based on the wholesome guide, which is the Word of God.

vooks:
Nor do I know what motivates you to frequent the Religion section of NL my broda.
While am free to speculate on your motives, that's waste of time. You asked for a thread on Dispensationalism and I did just that after you resisted sharing your wisdom on the same.

I have not lied nor engaged gimmicks anywhere and you are free to point them out and I will duly apologize if that is the case

When discussing scriptures, one would imagine that digressing and stalling, sideshows and running away from the same is a sign of fickle faith not to mention subscription to things you can't defend. That is the hallmark of BLIND FAITH. Faith is rational. Faith is logical. Stephen by the Holy Spirit spoke with wisdom that could not be withstood. Christians who can't contend for their faith are a disgrace to the name of Jesus

It takes a sincerely honest and mature mind to ask yourself WHY you believe WHAT you believe. What is the point of clinging to things you can't defend?

I do not need any apologies as I am not offended by the remarks, when or if I am I will ask for one. When insults are traded It only makes it impossible to have a serene discourse as expected of a religious thread.

The logic and rationality of scriptures isn't measured by our senses but by what God says. If it does not make secular sense does not in any way mean it does not make scriptural sense.

I will take absence of evidence to be evidence of absence of 'gimmicks and lies' as you put it

LOGIC means consistent my broda. Faith and scriptures are extremely consistent. This is why we have 66 books mostly by different writers and spanning hundreds if not thousands of years TOGETHER.

The 'logic and rationality of scriptures' is all am looking for my broda on this thread. 'Secular' vs 'scriptural' sense is your own dichotomy. Sense is sense. Bring Scriptures alone and hang your senses outside. Am waiting.... https://www.nairaland.com/2101258/dispensationalists-there-literal-animal-sacrifices

I wish to remind you that 'logic and rationality of scriptures' as well as 'scriptural sense' is not for the stars or whales but MEN. It comes through man. Do you want to have a go at it or not?

shdemidemi:


I do not need any apologies as I am not offended by the remarks, when or if I am I will ask for one. When insults are traded It only makes it impossible to have a serene discourse as expected of a religious thread.

The logic and rationality of scriptures isn't measured by our senses but by what God says. If it does not make secular sense does not in any way mean it does not make scriptural sense.

vooks:
I will take absence of evidence to be evidence of absence of 'gimmicks and lies' as you put it

LOGIC means consistent my broda. Faith and scriptures are extremely consistent. This is why we have 66 books mostly by different writers and spanning hundreds if not thousands of years TOGETHER.

The 'logic and rationality of scriptures' is all am looking for my broda on this thread. 'Secular' vs 'scriptural' sense is your own dichotomy. Sense is sense. Bring Scriptures alone and hang your senses outside. Am waiting.... https://www.nairaland.com/2101258/dispensationalists-there-literal-animal-sacrifices

I wish to remind you that 'logic and rationality of scriptures' as well as 'scriptural sense' is not for the stars or whales but MEN. It comes through man. Do you want to have a go at it or not?

Well, secular sense to determine 'what is good' and 'what is not' was what Adam got for obeying the sneaky serpent. Adam and Eve never had this sense until the fall, we also have the secular sense as a result of the fall. The bible refer to us(Christians) as 'sheep' because it demands that we drop that debased, man made, evil secular sense while we conform to scriptural sense.

I will meet you on the thread to contribute my bit.

I think I understand you better on the dichotomy.

mighty glad you took up the challenge

shdemidemi:


Well, secular sense to determine 'what is good' and 'what is not' was what Adam got for obeying the sneaky serpent. Adam and Eve never had this sense until the fall, we also have the secular sense as a result of the fall. The bible refer to us(Christians) as 'sheep' because it demands that we drop that debased, man made, evil secular sense while we conform to scriptural sense.

I will meet you on the thread to contribute my bit.

5solas:
As to whether a believer can lose salvation, the Arminians got it wrong from the onset , by their thoughts on freewill. They thought, think and teach that a man's salvation was up to them, a cursory look at scripture and you find that this notion is false and so their whole house crumble. To succeed in their scheme they must get through a whole lot of scripture. For starters:
Mt 11.

If man is the author of salvation, then of course salvation can be lost but if God is the author of salvation, then it definitely can't be lost.

hehehe, i have a feeling you are misrepresenting the arminians.
First, their testimony on freewill is much more consistent with the witness of Christians from biblical times to the time of the reformation, their testimonity seem more consistent with scripture and christian thought of over 1500 pre-reformation year.

God has always presented choices to his people, tree of life and tree of death at eden was the first, life or death, darkness or light, blessing or curse, he has always asked that we choose, right from the old testament God has alway given choices. In the news it is the same, preach the gospel, he who believes choses life, who who rejects choses death. Even after sin God has alway presented those choices and by his grace he enables us to chose rightly. In this the arminians were correct, so far as we guide against the pelegian heresy.

Secondly, the arminian didn't say man salvation is man's work, they taught that God calls man to salvation and grant it as a freegift to all who answer his call.

On both point the arminians were correct over and against Calvin and Luther. God does not save us without us.

shdemidemi:


bully!!! ok, if that is the way you see it, well and good. It isn't about me here so I see all he says as one acting based on ignorance. Moreover, I never used none of those lines for you, they were all for my good friend, vooks.

You are yet to find holes in all we have said so far, save for silly excuses from vooks that the message is not as old as he would have liked it to be.

i didn't call you a bully, read my post again. Your 7 despensation has no place in scripture, so also your division of the new testament into first class and second class.
The holes in your theory is there but you have continued to try to patch by dismissing none pauline text and interpreting the pauline text based on preconcieved ideas. I didn't even bother with a long arguement after reading the series of scripture you dismissed.

And vook point is actually a good one not an excuse, a doctrine that seem totally absent in the early church and only appeared in the 1500s is a novel teaching.