Am building an enterprise application just like Peachtree that will work on company's LAN, but the problem I have was some of my colleagues say it must be browse based(Web based), having looked what I need to do which ordinarily I mighty not do that within the time given and necessarily may not go well with me;
What can I say to justify my claims that I should develop it as an server-client application not as web application(browser based)?

Browser based / web based? You can sync your already existing windows application to work with web. That depends on
what you are tryin to achieve. You did not tell us the lang / langs u are using, so i dont know wat to say.

But lemme assume windows, if windows, then you want to learn stuffs like winsock (windows socket control), INET, web browser control and similar stuffs so you can exchange data remotely using internet - i am talkin about how to connect an already made windows application to use data from somewhere on the web.

If you want to base your project on a website - i mean run your database and all that from a central server/domain online, something like asp.net will work just fine.

We are talking about 2 things here - a window-based app that can pull data from internet or have a central point where it stores data online (can still handle some transactions when the internet is down) and the second scenario is a web based app made entirely with asp.net (that is completely dependent on internet).

Based on whatever task you are tryin to achieve and on your level of knowlege, you may decide which model you want to achieve.
Stuffs like microsoft encarter can connect to web to pull some info from you if u have internet,

My final advice is - if you have already built the app to run on local intranet, you may learn how to use those controls and some other similar ones to be able to integrate it to work with a web server.

I may not be the best person to advice you on this (i have technically dropped out of windows programming to web-based programming) - just tryin to pull out some things from my past windows app development experience.

Don't listen to your colleagues. Listen to your customers. If they would pay more for a browser based version, then do it. if not, save yourself the aggravation of working with unfamiliar tools.

@LuckyCo, think SOA. In the case that you need to develop applications that communicate over LAN or any other network, best thing Service Oriented Architecture of some kind and then you can build a client in either Windows or Web Or both. That way you do not have to go back and change whole structure should you find out that the client wants one and not the other.

Look into WCF ( Windows Communication Foundation). It is Windows but it offers you the benefit of interoperability, as well as ability to use any security protocol you choose to use. Also Search for info on Service Factory, it will make your work in WCF a whole lot easier and straight forward.

For the sort of application you are looking to write there, SOA makes the most sense to me. Client can be anything from Windows/Web Or even Mobile. The good thing about WCF is that you can self-host ( host it directly in your end application eg. ASP.NET or exe or Windows service) , host in IIS or WAS as you choose.

@Lucky CO,
i will also advise that you make your application web based for the following reasons.

i.  No installation is needed on any client machine that will connect to your centralized database (All the machine needs is a web browser which is available on most machines by default)
ii. Web based applications are lighter and causes less server overheads compared to their windows counterpart.
iii. Web based applications are appreciably faster than their windows counter part.
iv. Web applications can easily be migrated from the intranet to the internet, in case the clients decide to av it on the internet. (as a matter of fact, all u need to do is 2 optimize ur code for the internet , u dont have to rebuild the application as a whole).
v. For a web application, the only headache u'l have as a developer on system requirement is the server. as for the clients, any system dt can check yahoo mail will do.
vi. User Experience is better on the web especially with the use of Ajax (check dhtml's site, u will appreciate ajax better.)

just to mention a few,


   Although u can continue ur project using windows based approach so as to meet up with delivery time but be ready to migrate them 2 web in the nearest future otherwise, the application will be abandoned for a better web version very soon.
(A New Generation Bank just migrated their banking application from the old windows based application to web based and blif me u, their service is much better and faster.)

I dont know your language of choice but i recommend asp.net because when properly achitectured (Check N Tier Architectural design in Dot Net), u can use the same code for ur windows and web application.

I will say it again: listen to the customer. If the customer is agnostic, go for what you know best. The kind of program you're trying to build is not rocket science: even Visual Basic 6 will do the job. Marketing considerations and your personal comfort are more important than being cool.

Seun:

     I will say it again: listen to the customer.   If the customer is agnostic, go for what you know best.  The kind of program you're trying to build is not rocket science: even Visual Basic 6 will do the job.  Marketing considerations and your personal comfort are more important than being cool.

I like that. you want to use customers are always right methodology abi ?

Felt to comment here

dammytosh:

@Lucky CO,
i will also advise that you make your application web based for the following reasons.

No installation is needed on any client machine that will connect to your centralized database (All the machine needs is a web browser which is available on most machines by default)

Remote install make it seriously easy for clients to have applications installed on their machines from remote locations. Also, if this is a peach tree-like application, I see no reason why installation would be a big deal.

A good windows app built on SOA can connect remotely to any db as needed. When network is not available, you can have data stored locally and synched with remote db when connection becomes available.

dammytosh:


Web based applications are lighter and causes less server overheads compared to their windows counterpart.

Not necessarily the case. There are server overheads with web applications if the architectural design is not done well. The Client-Server model implies that the server will definitely be seriously tasked as well.

dammytosh:

iii. Web based applications are appreciably faster than their windows counter part.

With good concurrency practices, you get the same sort of response you would with web and sometimes better. @Poster, look into concurrency best practices. Windows applications can be just as scalable as web applications. You just need to apply design practices that best suit your need.

dammytosh:

iv. Web applications can easily be migrated from the intranet to the internet, in case the clients decide to av it on the internet. (as a matter of fact, all u need to do is 2 optimize ur code for the internet , u dont have to rebuild the application as a whole).

hhhmm . . .

dammytosh:
v. For a web application, the only headache u'l have as a developer on system requirement is the server. as for the clients, any system dt can check yahoo mail will do.
vi. User Experience is better on the web especially with the use of Ajax (check dhtml's site, u will appreciate ajax better.)

just to mention a few,

You have Ajax for web, just as you have a fully developed concurrency library for Windows development. User experience is not necessarily better with web than it is with windows. Ajax is simply async processing which already exists with the System.Threading library among others. You also have the flexibility of using flash like features in your application with use of Silverlight and WWF.

Kobojunkie:

  Remote install make it seriously easy for clients to have applications installed on their machines from remote locations. Also, if this is a peach tree-like application, I see no reason why installation would be a big deal.

it could be a big deal especially in situation where your setup is dependent on other installations. e.g d need to install dot net frame work etc b4 ur application could run properly and besides, to set up an application could be hell for some basic computer users. (Imagine the yahoo web mail application,face book with remote install abah !)
Connecting to ur server to do remote install self is an over head.

Kobojunkie:

A good windows app built on SOA can connect remotely to any db as needed. When network is not available, you can have data stored locally and synched with remote db when connection becomes available.

i cant remember saying that a windows app can not connect to a remote db . 

Kobojunkie:

Not necessarily the case. There are server overheads with web applications if the architectural design is not done well. The Client-Server model implies that the server will definitely be seriously tasked as well.

You cant in any way compare server overheads in windows application to that of web application.

Kobojunkie:

With good concurrency practices, you get the same sort of response you would with web and sometimes better. @Poster, look into concurrency best practices.

@Poster no concurrency practice will bring response time of a windows application and web application any close.  Av u not seen windows application ui controls freezing in an attempt to connect to distant server db b4 ? (Well thanks to multi threading sha)

Kobojunkie:

You have Ajax for web, just as you have a fully developed concurrency library for Windows development. User experience is not necessarily better with web than it is with windows.

May be u can explain what the concurrency library u mentioned has to do with the issue here.

I think reading my initial post with an open mind will make u understand each point better. (Windows and Web Apps have their strengths and weaknesses) but In my opinion, for MOST client- server data centric application that both windows and web will do perfectly, it is advisable to go for web if not because of today, for future expansion. Wat if the clients business expands frm d Local Area Network to Wide Area Network ? 

Ask ur banker friends, they will tell u that almost all banks in Nigeria have abandoned their old windows based client- server system for Web based applications.
Dont look at the cost, just upgrade ur skill to meet up with future challenges.

dammytosh:

it could be a big deal especially in situation where your setup is dependent on other installations. e.g d need to install dot net frame work etc b4 ur application could run properly and besides, to set up an application could be hell for some basic computer users. (Imagine the yahoo web mail application,face book with remote install abah !)
Connecting to ur server to do remote install self is an over head.

agreed but it is about the same if you consider that clients are able, today to use applications such as peach tree, office word, explorer, firefox etc. All these applications required some form sort of installation. So whether you are installing .NET or JVM, there are some things that are to be expected and so not to be considered overhead in that sense.

dammytosh:

i cant remember saying that a windows app can not connect to a remote db .

Not saying that you said that either !

dammytosh:

You cant in any way compare server overheads in windows application to that of web application.

Considering that Web applications require accessing of information on the server, with each page refresh, I am not exactly sure what you mean by the above. Now, windows applications do not require as much of the server overhead as you claim. They can be made to run using memory on the local machine and only access the server when data is needed from the server.

I have to ask so I be sure we are on the same page here. What do you mean when you say Server Overhead?

dammytosh:

@Poster no concurrency practice will bring response time of a windows application and web application any close. Av u not seen windows application ui controls freezing in an attempt to connect to distant server db b4 ? (Well thanks to multi threading sha)

Actually, the above is not true. Unless you have T3 or something higher on your network, you are bound to experience much the same issues with both web and windows. I use the word issues lightly here. Concurrency allows you have other threads deal with processing in the background, therefore allowing you continuing other tasks without your application freezing up. Sort of like Ajax for windows.

Here are some articles that might interest you

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc159269.aspx

dammytosh:

May be u can explain what the concurrency library u mentioned has to do with the issue here.

You suggested Ajax for web and I explained that you have the same sort of Async functionality and background processing in windows programming.

dammytosh:

I think reading my initial post with an open mind will make u understand each point better. (Windows and Web Apps have their strengths and weaknesses) but In my opinion, for MOST client- server data centric application that both windows and web will do perfectly, it is advisable to go for web if not because of today, for future expansion. Wat if the clients business expands frm d Local Area Network to Wide Area Network ?

I Work on both web and windows applications is why I felt to respond to your post that seems to push for web somehow being better than windows apps. I have never found this to be the case. I would in fact say that the choice needs to be left to the business need. Be it web or windows, you are in good corner. None is better than the other. They both scale well and can be easily modified as business needs shift.


For the what if case you present, there in is the reason to think more Service-Oriented Architecture. So no matter how the business evolves, the application does not have to undergo drastic changes. Saving the client money and you a lot of time.

dammytosh:

Ask ur banker friends, they will tell u that almost all banks in Nigeria have abandoned their old windows based client- server system for Web based applications.
Dont look at the cost, just upgrade ur skill to meet up with future challenges.

I currently work in a bank and believe upgrading skills is essential. Just because banks in Nigeria are going web does not mean that web is the way to go for your own bank or business. It certainly does not mean web is better. Making a decision to move one way just because others are doing it, is not wise at all. Windows applications are now as responsive and as effective in communication as web is. You can do most anything you can in web in windows. It just takes one stepping out to learn something new. Before you know it, you are developing up to date and portable applications.

I did not say that web application is better than windows application in all cases. We are talking about a particular distributed application in this case.
  I write both windows and web applications too and as a former die hard vb 6 developer, i av a passion for windows app too, but the realities and project demands and fore sight most times call for web apps. Infact, with the way i build my apps, all i need to do is to change the UI Layer if i decide 2 go windows or go web, the same BLL and DAL will do for both .
   

@Kobojunkie
I write windows applications that speaks to serial ports and will never say that it makes sense to speak to a local computer serial port using web application ,  i said it that they av their strengths and weaknesess.
    I was just analyzing based on my experiences over the years. I av regretted having some of my client - server applications in windows instead of web. so i know what i am saying and it will soon be obvious to other developers too. My bank application example was just cited 2 create a question on WHY THEY ARE DOING SO ? (and i guess u must av confirmed that as a banker too)

" Ok, What if ur clients wake up one day and say that they want their partners abroad to be able to access the application and perform the same functionalities they can perform here. ? ". We have had at least two clients who decided 2 push their intranet application to the internet. if we had used windows in the first place, we would av gone for another system analysis and design.  if things were not properly done in anticipation of such development.

dammytosh:

I did not say that web application is better than windows application in all cases. We are talking about a particular distributed application in this case.
  I write both windows and web applications too and as a former die hard vb 6 developer, i av a passion for windows app too, but the realities and project demands and fore sight most times call for web apps. Infact, with the way i build my apps, all i need to do is to change the UI Layer if i decide 2 go windows or go web, the same BLL and DAL will do for both .

Ok.  If you are working off of the same BLL and exactly the same DAL, why in the world do you think performance will differ then? Why? That to me sounds more like a design issue, rather than a technology issue.


I like to avoid these sort of debates on here because I just figure that most of the developers on here may not have been exposed to many of the new ways of doing things and technologies available today. These debates are usually null because the many reasons people push on here are invalid in todays tech world.
   

dammytosh:

@Kobojunkie
I write windows applications that speaks to serial ports and will never say that it makes sense to speak to a local computer serial port using web application ,  i said it that they av their strengths and weaknesess.

    I was just analyzing based on my experiences over the years. I av regretted having some of my client - server applications in windows instead of web. so i know what i am saying and it will soon be obvious to other developers too. My bank application example was just cited 2 create a question on WHY THEY ARE DOING SO ? (and i guess u must av confirmed that as a banker too)

I am not a banker, I am more a consultant. I have worked in many different industries and applications of all sizes, and I can tell you that Web and Windows are almost merged these days. The reasons you continue to state for why you think web over windows are no longer valid. Not at all. That is what I am trying to tell you. I cannot convince you but I can urge that you please take a look at some of the new applications out there to see what I mean.

Here is a link to a very cool windows application you might find interesting. It is built using WPF and you can modify the same application to download data over your personal server or move it to web and not loose much performance wise.

Please take a look at it.

http://www.codeplex.com/familyshow

dammytosh:

" Ok, What if ur clients wake up one day and say that they want their partners abroad to be able to access the application and perform the same functionalities they can perform here. ? ". We have had at least two clients who decided 2 push their intranet application to the internet.

Simple, you create web forms that consume the same BLLs, same DLL, control libraries, and Services that  were used to create your Windows app. Even better, you can create an installer for them to install the windows version of the application via clickOnce on their local machine; upload it to your server, and they have ability to use the application both offline and on.

dammytosh:

if we had used windows in the first place, we would av gone for another system analysis and design.  if things were not properly done in anticipation of such development.

The same architectural design you use for windows, you can use for web, so it is not a problem at all. Analysis and design does not have to differ by much whether you are working on a windows app or a web app. If your requirements gathering is focused more on providing needed functionality and not necessarily web or windows, you are better off.

Kobojunkie:

Here is a link to a very cool windows application you might find interesting. It is built using WPF and you can modify the same application to download data over your personal server or move it to web and not loose much performance wise.

Please take a look at it.

http://www.codeplex.com/familyshow

i av watched several videos from Billy Hollis  . (The first person who demoed WPF with a reasonable application apart from flipping applications on a task bar nd some other chidish stuffs that WPF can be used for as reffered 2 by Carl Franklin). WPF is no substitute for web application at all. it is just much better than pure windows application. WPF is simply trying to marry the performance and use of CSS on a web application and the flexibility and rich user interface of a windows application. Shikena

Kobojunkie:

  Ok.  If you are working off of the same BLL and exactly the same DAL, why in the world do you think performance will differ then? Why? That to me sounds more like a design issue, rather than a technology issue.

  Not a design issue at all. i am afraid performance differs, it is what has been tried before. You can try it out yourself using the same layer, compare the different times it takes for your Gridview to display data from a remote server on the webpage compared to a corresponding Data Grid on a windows form.
data retrieval times can not be compared in both windows and web pages. (No argument about that).

Kobojunkie:

Simple, you create web forms that consume the same BLLs, same DLL, control libraries, and Services that  were used to create your Windows app. Even better, you can create an installer for them to install the windows version of the application via clickOnce on their local machine; upload it to your server, and they have ability to use the application both offline and on

I tot i mentioned that as my default style of development. But come to think of it, au many developers use proper architectural design. In a situation where we av most developers still writing VB 6 and still claiming that it is the bomb, where do u expect all this Windows and Web using the same BLL and DAL of a thing 2 come from. And what do use as the interface to deploy click once, is it not a web page ?.

Kobojunkie:

The same architectural design you use for windows, you can use for web, so it is not a problem at all. Analysis and design does not have to differ by much whether you are working on a windows app or a web app. If your requirements gathering is focused more on providing needed functionality and not necessarily web or windows, you are better off.

dammytosh:

  , Infact, with the way i build my apps, all i need to do is to change the UI Layer if i decide 2 go windows or go web, the same BLL and DAL will do for both .
   
,      We have had at least two clients who decided 2 push their intranet application to the internet. if we had used windows in the first place, we would av gone for another system analysis and design.  if things were not properly done in anticipation of such development.

i mentioned dt before i was just assuming the last condition in bold font. 

dammytosh:

i av watched several videos from Billy Hollis . (The first person who demoed WPF with a reasonable application apart from flipping applications on a task bar nd some other chidish stuffs that WPF can be used for as reffered 2 by Carl Franklin). WPF is no substitute for web application at all. it is just much better than pure windows application. WPF is simply trying to marry the performance and use of CSS on a web application and the flexibility and rich user interface of a windows application. Shikena

dammytosh:

And what do use as the interface to deploy click once, is it not a web page ?.
i mentioned dt before i was just assuming the last condition in bold font.

dammytosh:

You can try it out yourself using the same layer, compare the different times it takes for your Gridview to display data from a remote server on the webpage compared to a corresponding Data Grid on a windows form.

dammytosh:

data retrieval times can not be compared in both windows and web pages. (No argument about that).

The above statements from you PROVES to me that you have no clue what you are talking about and that this is yet another of those useless JAVA vs C# Or my program is better than yours debates on here. I don’t know who you are but may I suggest that you get out and learn, instead of sitting back pretending you can tell it all from where you sit. Developers all over the world know that there is a serious blurring of the line between web and windows these days that it is so easy to develop applications that scale equally and perform just as well regardless of platform or space.

dammytosh:

Not a design issue at all. i am afraid performance differs, it is what has been tried before. You can try it out yourself using the same layer, compare the different times it takes for your Gridview to display data from a remote server on the webpage compared to a corresponding Data Grid on a windows form.
data retrieval times can not be compared in both windows and web pages. (No argument about that).
I tot i mentioned that as my default style of development. But come to think of it, au many developers use proper architectural design. In a situation where we av most developers still writing VB 6 and still claiming that it is the bomb, where do u expect all this Windows and Web using the same BLL and DAL of a thing 2 come from. And what do use as the interface to deploy click once, is it not a web page ?.
i mentioned dt before i was just assuming the last condition in bold font.

Here are some links to a sites where you have other people arguing that the reverse is the case. Are you going to tell me that these people are all wrong, and you are right? Or are you going to maybe consider that you may have some work to do to get your applications working and performing better? Your choice

http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t372763-web-vs-windows-application.html

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/Blogs/BlogDetail.aspx?BlogId=416

http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t116542-application-architecture-question-web-apps-vs-smart-clients-vs-windows-applications-vs-.html

Please enough of the useless debates that lead no where but to more mis-information for Nigerians developers who seem way behind their peers all over the world already. I don’t know any developers who still talks of developing in VB6. Most of the projects I have worked on for years now have been converting from VB6 to VB.NET. And please do not offer me the excuse that you have been working with VB.NET for years but somehow cannot get the name right. Seriously, do not take me for an idiot by thinking I will bite. Roflmao!!
Please, enough of the mis-information. If you have questions about the new technologies, please visit the msdn forum. Millions of developers from around the world use that forum. You get 100’s of people on the Microsoft team online ready to help you understand new technologies and how to apply them to your business need.

http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-us/categories/

Kobojunkie:

The above statements from you PROVES to me that you have no clue what you are talking about and that this is yet another of those useless JAVA vs C# Or my program is better than yours debates on here. I don’t know who you are but may I suggest that you get out and learn, instead of sitting back pretending you can tell it all from where you sit.

Bros,  Dont take things personal, a forum is meant 2 express your mind freely. That i don't shout about all the TECHNOLOGIES i have heard about before does not "make me sitting back pretending as if i can tell it all from where i sit".
I listen to audios every day, watch videos everyday, my default browser opens msdn by default. so as a matter of fact there is nothing new about Microsoft Dot Net Technology as at January 16th u know about that i av not heard and know wat it does. (i can echo that statement several times cos i get to the source almost everyday)
i av listened and watched dot net icons (likes of Venkat, Carl, Billy Hollis, Juval Lowly,Simmons,Dollard, Miguel Castro just to mention a few) discuss issues so i am not a novice even if i am not a consultant.

Kobojunkie:

Here are some links to a sites where you have other people arguing that the reverse is the case. Are you going to tell me that these people are all wrong, and you are right? Or are you going to maybe consider that you may have some work to do to get your applications working and performing better? Your choice

http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t372763-web-vs-windows-application.html

http://www.c-sharpcorner.com/Blogs/BlogDetail.aspx?BlogId=416

http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t116542-application-architecture-question-web-apps-vs-smart-clients-vs-windows-applications-vs-.html

No complex argument about the veracity of their argument, but wat authority do they have in dot net. I av an account with velocity reviews, it is their forum just like nairaland but we have more white guys. So au are they suppose to have the final say on what we both do everyday.

Kobojunkie:

Please enough of the useless debates that lead no where but to more mis-information for Nigerians developers who seem way behind their peers all over the world already.

What is the misinformation in  my posts ? "That a web application could be better when building some distributed datacentric apps where both will work PERFECTLY ?" common man,

Kobojunkie:

I don’t know any developers who still talks of developing in VB6.

There are many. (if not because of anything, at least they maintain wat they had in VB 6)

Kobojunkie:

If you have questions about the new technologies, please visit the msdn forum. Millions of developers from around the world use that forum. You get 100’s of people on the Microsoft team online ready to help you understand new technologies and how to apply them to your business need.

No comment 

I have been working on a windows PABX console since last night. So the question of been afraid of windows application does not arise here . so how come the topic looks like "Java Vs C#" or "my method is better than yours" as insinuated by u.
please read my posts without prejudice or assuming that the poster is a nobody, we are all here to share our opinions.
  The summary of my post is that it is advisable to use WEB APPLICATION nd not WINDOWS application for some [/b]type of[b] Distributed data centric application. and that i guess dt tells u why most banks runs on web based application and not WPF or what else av u for their major banking operation 4 now.

enjoy