guy1234:
Please guys, where and how can someone lay hands on a very comprehensive and detailed literature on Yoruba history?

kidnap Yotiki and Naptu2...

Then force them to write you one

Mynd44:

The title "Eleko,of Lagos" was changed to "Oba of Lagos" when the capital was moved to Abuja. That does not mean the person wearing the crown changes but his duties grew and he became the Traditional ruler of the state

Okay

guy1234:
Please guys, where and how can someone lay hands on a very comprehensive and detailed literature on Yoruba history?

Check out Samuel Johnson's Histroy of the Yoruba, you can get it at CMS Bookshop in Lagos or the one at Jericho road, Ibadan. Albeit, Johnson's book is a bit 'Oyocentric' being that Samuel Johnson himself was an Oyo man.

You can also get(online) Robert Smith's Kingdom of the Yoruba's and Late Prof J.S Atanda's The New Oyo Empire: indirect rule in western Nigeria 1894 - 1934

seunmsg:


Traditional rulers play more than ceremonial roles in different states based on various laws establishing the traditional councils. They perform advisory roles to the government in most states. Their funding is also not illegal as you termed it because their is an existing federal law that provides that traditional institutions should be funded by at least 5% of the Local government monthly allocation.

Such roles do not belong in our current democratic dispensation. Recent actions by the Oba of Lagos speaks for itself.

What laws established the said traditional councils and under what constitutional provision?

SirShymexx:


What is difference between Eleko of Eko and Oba of Lagos?

Asipa was not called Oba, he was titled Eleko.

Why?

When Oranmiyan left Ife to become King in Bini he was called Omo Oba, which became Omo n'Oba. Subsequently the Bini monarch adopted Oba for their title.

In Yoruba custom, it is sacrilege to have the father and son wear royal crown and Oba title at the same time. So the father retain Oba and the son is given a new title.

When Asipa left Bini he could not be called Oba, so he became El'eko.

Sons after Asipa, beginning with Gabaro bear Oba.

Just like in Bini where Omo n'Oba and Oba are interchanged and used at convenience, Lagos Royal House use both El'Eko and Oba as it pleases their fancy.

our culture is so rich.....in history n culture......maybe this is why the SE r d way they r...no known history...or culture...

seunmsg:


Traditional rulers play more than ceremonial roles in different states based on various laws establishing the traditional councils. They perform advisory roles to the government in most states. Their funding is also not illegal as you termed it because their is an existing federal law that provides that traditional institutions should be funded by at least 5% of the Local government monthly allocation.

Oga, it is not enough to make outlandish pronouncements without providing any evidence. Please site the federal laws which established the traditional council, if you'd like us to take your post seriously. Our constitution does not support your pronouncements either. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The Obas and their likes should not have more than ceremonial roles as glaringly displayed by recent acts of the Oba of Lagos.

Katsumoto, Terracotta, MayorofLagos, i think your inputs is needed here

Mynd44:

Yeah yeah yeah

Tell the royal family in Britain to go get jobs first

Although I support your argument

I'm OK with supporting the Obas with funds approved by their subjects through local council ordinances or their various state laws.

What currently obtains is a system of corruption where the Governors illegally give Obas and Emirs money not budgetted for, and it turn use the Obas and Emirs for political gains. Some Governors have even dethroned Emirs who do not side with them politically.

Arch1:
Check out Samuel Johnson's Histroy of the Yoruba, you can get it at CMS Bookshop in Lagos or the one at Jericho road, Ibadan. Albeit, Johnson's book is a bit 'Oyocentric' being that Samuel Johnson himself was an Oyo man.

You can also get(online) Robert Smith's Kingdom of the Yoruba's and Late Prof J.S Atanda's The New Oyo Empire: indirect rule in western Nigeria 1894 - 1934

Thanks a lot. I'll try and look out for them. Almost all present day Yoruba people, cannot say anything about yorubaland and its history and this is just a big shame.

I'll love to learn all I can about the history of my people.

nduchucks:


I'm OK with supporting the Obas with funds approved by their subjects through local council ordinances or their various state laws.

What currently obtains is a system of corruption where the Governors illegally give Obas and Emirs money not budgetted for, and it turn use the Obas and Emirs for political gains. Some Governors have even dethroned Emirs who do not side with them politically.

This is not limited to the traditional rulers na. Almost every sector on Nigeria is like that.

It should be stopped but cancelling funding to them completely won't work. Corruptly taking money out of the money allocated is criminal

nduchucks:


I'm OK with supporting the Obas with funds approved by their subjects through local council ordinances or their various state laws.

What currently obtains is a system of corruption where the Governors illegally give Obas and Emirs money not budgetted for, and it turn use the Obas and Emirs for political gains. Some Governors have even dethroned Emirs who do not side with them politically.

Nduchucks, why are your arguments always so throretical without any basis in reality? I have always benchmarked any theoretical or idealistic assumptions and premises against what obtains in reality. The constitution its self does not always apply in practice. Racial equality is a constitutional requirement in many of the countries we look up to but the reality is so so different. Just like Nigeria's constitution says you can live anywhere and vote and be voted for but I wouldnt go to a rural area of Sokoto and drag that with them. I wont even go to Bayelsa to drag any issues with the local.

We are happy for the budgetary provisions for our Obas in Yorubaland and i am sure the Northerners feel the same about their Emirs. As I am sure you know there is nothing royal about the "Eze" title, it has no historical basis and it is nothing but a "hush-hush" creation to give the Igbos some semblance of antiquity or some kind of "follow join".

nduchucks:


Oga, it is not enough to make outlandish pronouncements without providing any evidence. Please site the federal laws which established the traditional council, if you'd like us to take your post seriously. Our constitution does not support your pronouncements either. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The Obas and their likes should not have more than ceremonial roles as glaringly displayed by recent acts of the Oba of Lagos.

Their is no federal law that establishes traditional council as at today. Issues concerning traditional institutions are legislated upon by the state government. So, it is for the various state governments to make laws creating the traditional councils in there states. The laws varies from state to state so I can't start siting all of them.

Mynd44:




http://www.lagosstate.gov.ng/pagelinks.php?p=8

Oh the title changed to Oba when the Capital of Nigeria was moved to Abuja

please don't turn history upside down,the link you provided said nothing like the title was changed to Oba when the capital was moved,eleko of eko simply means the Oba of lagos,Eko is Lagos in yoruba language, the Oba of Lagos is not the Oba of Lagos state,Badagry is in Lagos state he has no influence there,same has Ikorodu and Epe.

masseratti:
please don't turn history upside down,the link you provided said nothing like the title was changed to Oba when the capital was moved,eleko of eko simply means the Oba of lagos,Eko is Lagos in yoruba language, the Oba of Lagos is not the Oba of Lagos state,Badagry is in Lagos state he has no influence there,same has Ikorodu and Epe.

I guess you missed where it said the Oba of Lagos if the Head of all the Obas in Lagos state.

You know what, never mind sef

This picture is Prince Ladega Adele, not Oba Adele.

Please correct!

seunmsg:


Traditional rulers play more than ceremonial roles in different states based on various laws establishing the traditional councils. They perform advisory roles to the government in most states. Their funding is also not illegal as you termed it because their is an existing federal law that provides that traditional institutions should be funded by at least 5% of the Local government monthly allocation.

You need to ignore some folks. They are just out to derail the thread. Even the Queen isn't ceremonial regardless of all the PC nonsense over saturated everywhere. Before any law is passed in the UK - you need a Royal Assent from the Queen. Heck, the House of Lords was always more powerful than the House of Commons until Tony Blair's "coup" against the British royalty and nobility that changed everything.

I drove past Buckingham palace last Saturday on my way to Kensington. Just decided to go through there cos I haven't been to the proper palace gate for almost a decade now. Brev, you need to see the crowd of foreign tourists outside. That is what Yoruba kings should be like. Once you go past the gate, you will see all the countries the British empire conquered, including Nigeria on the gate loool. And she is still the head of the commonwealth.

It is Yoruba culture/tradition - and it isn't going anywhere. Just ignore the trolls.

seunfly:

Oboy!!!!! That name go fear you ooooo, you will know he is real traditional man. Esugbayi = Adoration to Satan or Satan has respect.

Boy, go and understand yoruba deities before you talk. esu is not and was never synonymous with satan. its just another deity like sango, ogun etc. its like saying loki is satan and thor is jesus in asgardian myth.

nduchucks:


Oga, it is not enough to make outlandish pronouncements without providing any evidence. Please site the federal laws which established the traditional council, if you'd like us to take your post seriously. Our constitution does not support your pronouncements either. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The Obas and their likes should not have more than ceremonial roles as glaringly displayed by recent acts of the Oba of Lagos.

The Native laws preceeded the Constitution. The Native laws were formally adopted in the Constitutiin and called Customary. The Constitution recognizes Customary laws and their courts.

Customary laws in Yotubaland are under custody of Ogboni, who report to traditional rulers. So by removing Oba you disturb a balance and therefore go against statutory mandates extended by the Constitution in recognition of Oba's power.

seunfly:

Oboy!!!!! That name go fear you ooooo, you will know he is real traditional man. Esugbayi = Adoration to Satan or Satan has respect.

Lol
Bro, Esu is not Satan.
Satan/Devil in Yoruba is 'sataani'.

Esu is a god messenger between Olodumare and humans, he is also a major prankster/trickster. Esu is a god that must be appeased before any ritual/propitiation/scarifices are done all of which he must be offered a certain quantity first before any other god or awon iya.

Every babalawo/onisegun/awo who has a shrine deducated to any god must have Esu erected close to the deity as well as Ogun who paved way.

seunfly:


First class in which aspect?

Is it in state or in a standard Yoruba concept.

At state level, we may have many first class king depending on the size and importance of their community in the state.

In a standard Yoruba concept, we don't have many first class king and I don't think oba of Lagos is among.



The traditional first class Yoruba kings are Orogun of Ila, Alafin of Oyo, Oni of Ife, Alake of egba and oba of bennin.

The next in hierachy are: Olubadan of Ibadan, awojale of Ijebu, Timi of Ede, owa obokun Of Ijesha, onokoyi, oniondo of ondo etc

The third level are Soun of ogbomosho, olofa of offa, akinrun of ikinrun etc.

Some of our popular kings are made popular because of the mordern development which favour their community and they become more popular.

For instance Deji of Akure in not bigger than oniondo of ondo but since akure in the capital and Deji is the king of Akure, his throne overshadow the king of ondo town.

Osemawe of Ondo not Oniondo of Ondo lol

Mynd44:

I guess you missed where it said the Oba of Lagos if the Head of all the Obas in Lagos state.

You know what, never mind sef

no I didn't miss that,he is the chairman of the traditional ruler's council, that doesn't make him the head of all the Obas in Lagos,just like the AU chairman is not the head of all the Presidents in Africa.am a Lagosian, are you?

Mynd44:

What do you call a "First class king"? There are only 5 or so first class kings in Yorubaland and the Oba of Lagos is not even one

This is wrong. There are several 1st class Obas in Lagos, see their list here

www.lagosstate.gov.ng/pagemenus.php?p=64&k=32

demmie1:


Boy, go and understand yoruba deities before you talk. esu is not and was never synonymous with satan. its just another deity like sango, ogun etc. its like saying loki is satan and thor is jesus in asgardian myth.

I know but today's meaning of esu is Satan.

9jacrip:



Lol
Bro, Esu is not Satan.
Satan/Devil in Yoruba is 'sataani'.

Esu is a god messenger between Olodumare and humans, he is also a major prankster/trickster. Esu is a god that must be appeased before any ritual/propitiation/scarifices are done all of which he must be offered a certain quantity first before any other god or awon iya.

Every babalawo/onisegun/awo who has a shrine deducated to any god must have Esu erected close to the deity as well as Ogun who paved way.




Osemawe of Ondo not Oniondo of Ondo lol

Thanks, i tried to remember, i guess it is very long time since primary school days.


osemawe.

Mynd44:

I did not say there are only 5 but the last I heard was there are 5..there might be more though

I know the Alaafin, Olubadan, Ooni are among.

Perhaps the Deji of Akure and Soun of Ogbomosho (not sure of the Soun though)

How can Olubadan be a first class king. Haba!

seunfly:

I know but today's meaning of esu is Satan.

Not 'todays' meaning of Esu but rather Christianity (especially) and Islam meaning of Esu.

I often imagine these group of people fasting and praying hard against 'esu', a deity that does not embody evil in whatever form, yet they pray hard, speak in tongues and all with the believe they can, will or have conquer(ed) him LOL.

Religion is really a thing of the mind.

masseratti:
please don't turn history upside down,the link you provided said nothing like the title was changed to Oba when the capital was moved,eleko of eko simply means the Oba of lagos,Eko is Lagos in yoruba language, the Oba of Lagos is not the Oba of Lagos state,Badagry is in Lagos state he has no influence there,same has Ikorodu and Epe.

#Mynd44 has a funny grasp of this topic.

The Oba of Lagos is the paramount ruler in Lagos by designation. However, he doesn't control what happens in the different divisions outside of Lagos Island. He will simply direct issues to the paramount ruler in that division if brought to him.

Go and meet the Olu of Ikeja for example if you bring Ikeja matter to him.

LAGrejectIBO:


Asipa was not called Oba, he was titled Eleko.

Why?

When Oranmiyan left Ife to become King in Bini he was called Omo Oba, which became Omo n'Oba. Subsequently the Bini monarch adopted Oba for their title.

In Yoruba custom, it is sacrilege to have the father and son wear royal crown and Oba title at the same time. So the father retain Oba and the son is given a new title.

When Asipa left Bini he could not be called Oba, so he became El'eko.

Sons after Asipa, beginning with Gabaro bear Oba.

Just like in Bini where Omo n'Oba and Oba are interchanged and used at convenience, Lagos Royal House use both El'Eko and Oba as it pleases their fancy.

Nice.

I don't even need to do to much analysis to know who this is. It is the big Chief - the NL custodian of Eko history. Alie? Loool. Not snitching, Sir. Educative as usual - nice.

Anyway, who was the last king with Bini lineage?

And I remember you said Oba Akiolu is half-Igbo one time. However, someone said he is isn't and that his mum is Ogun Ijebu. How true is that?

Babatundetinubu:
our culture is so rich.....in history n culture......maybe this is why the SE r d way they r...no known history...or culture...

Why do you want to destroy this educative discussion? What concerns the people of SE in this topic?

Please be guided.

The issue of classing king to me makes no sense and mostly 'political'.

There is no official classing of kings in Yoruba land, every king knows his level/rating without being told.

Although, it basically begins with the 8 original crowns after Oduduwa.

Rilwayne001:
Yoruba Monarchy

Eleko of Eko, Oba Adeniji Adele at a function in London,England circa, 1950s.

He reigned between 1949 - 1964 when he died. His predecessor was Oba Falolu who reigned between 1932 and 1949 and successor was Oba Adeyinka Oyekan who reigned between 1965 and 2003.

Nice pic is that ,His Majesty the Obi of Onitsha next to him?