Ubenedictus:
Lizzie is already saved, she has repented, she believes and has been baptized,

9inches:


Read.. Read.. Read my friend. Stop exposing your empty brain. You don't know the definition of the terms you throw around.

brocab:
The bad thing about you 9 inches you can throw the insults out there, but you can't handle the come backs-plus It has nothing to do with any Church made of brick and mortar-the Church is the believers, Church buildings were built to keep people together, under one accord, nothing more, no-one is concerned about who's Church building stood up the longest.
The Church was built upon the Word of God-not apostles, Christ built His Church upon the Word's Peter spoke from God-not on Peter himself.
Am I speaking with a child-stay focus on bible scriptures the apostles wrote-instead of relying on tradition, tradition tells us, Christ built the Catholic Church-but the bible tells us:

Members of the Church (Body of Christ) are joined to Christ in salvation {Ephesians 4:15-16}
Members of the Church (Body of Christ) are indwelt by the Holy Spirit of Christ {Romans 8:9}
Members of the Church (Body of Christ) share a common bond with all other Christians, regardless of background, race, or ministry. “There should be no division in the body (One Church only!), but . . . its parts (Church members) should have equal concern for each other” {1 Corinthians 12:25}
Have you notice none of the above concerns any Church building made of brick and mortar..

brocab:
Like I said: you can give out the insults but you can't handle the come backs. Stop exposing your empty brain-is this best you could come back with.. My empty brain-may not be knowledgeable to you, but the Word of God is not knowledgeable to you either-my learning of the Catholic Church had travelled all over the world through this very site. "Not bad, not bad at all."
And like I said: Lizzie the stuff you preach on youtube has no foundation to it, you think the scriptures you are using have any meaning to your maybe's-or Hmmm's, guessing the Word of God-isn't what I call knowledgeable, no-one is learning anything positive by it, You think you have, what it takes, Lizzie you have always believed you were more special, worth something more then the others.
Lizzie it's time for you to pull your head in-you left God for this: Most Catholic's believe bowing down to statues, helps them to believe the spirit in those statue's are watching over them-most believe as long as they have a statue of saints or baby Jesus or Mary, or a crucifix cross, these spirits are looking after them, this is defiantly witchcraft, Catholic's bowing down before demons living in statues..
Lizzie most Catholic's don't even know the bible, nor do you, rebellion against your parents is sinning against God-most Catholic's say the bible is not convincing enough, most Catholic's go to Church because of a family tradition, in your case, your family was cast out, from you.
Most Catholic's believe as long as they believe they had a good life-and they asked a priest to forgive their sins, and rise the dead! They will enter into the kingdom of God: don't you realise one must be born again before he can enter into the kingdom of God.
Many claim they are saved through infant baptism, "not even you-know if you were baptised" so how do you know you are saved?

Uben haven't any faith to say, Lizzie is baptised-So let myself continual-as I read through many sites you have given me, I find this-who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. {Which is the Word of God}
Lizzie your preaching on youtube haven't any backbone to it, there's no foundation and calling yourself 9 inches on Nairaland is like having your house built on sand, your house is Uben's house and it had already fallen Spirituality.

9inches:
How are you addressing Lizzie in the first person like she's here. You amaze me. O boy, go and study your bible and some history of christianity.

9inches:
. Do you understand it now?

And by the way, your mortar and brick is a protestant straw man argument nonsense. It's funny to see you construct a straw man and argue against. That's what happens when you can't argue against my claims because you simply can't counter the truth. So, you formulate a falsehood and counter it. It's human beings that make up the body of the church, a building or your brick and mortar.

brocab:
She is, you speak of her as she is, you can't help yourself, but produce Lizzie as your door mat, you use Lizzie to answer your indoctrinated so called tradition, don't you see, Lizzie is still a young Child-and you are seeking your information from a Child-if not Lizzie you have led me to sites Lizzie also uses.
Your not studying your bible-I believe Liz is your bible-you are a self-righteous Hypocrite!

9inches:
You need to really calm your head because by your comments, you are all over the place. It's not the first time you addressed Lizzy in the first person. Stop distracting yourself with these jargon you are writing, be humble and learn.

brocab:
But she is your door mat-and Lizzie teaches, everything you need to know, what does this mean? "You are both speaking the same religious lingo, the same gospel-you both believe in the same religion-if we were to look into the scriptures, lets see what Jesus meant by the verse below.
{John 17:23} I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—I in them and You in Me — that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.
So you see, "I am talking about us being united as One-Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit are One-Christ prayed that we become one in them, this means we are acting like Christ, preaching through Christ His gospel, and obeying the Word of God.
But you are preaching Catholicism throughout the world-Lizzie also preaches Catholicism-so to speak, you are both preaching Catholicism, this makes you in One accord with Lizzie-father that you are in me, I am in you, and I in them.
Is this why you don't understand the terms of the body. Spirituality you are Lizzie, and Lizzie is you spirituality, speaking the Catholicism lingo under One accord. And still I am not expecting you to understand this simple knowledge..

9inches:
You are looking into the scripture you do not understand. I laugh at you.

brocab:
I have been laughing at you from the beginning, why? Because the terms I am speaking are Spiritual terms.
You can only understand the bible in the flesh, this is why you believe tradition saves.

9inches:
Congratulations spiritual speaker.

brocab:
If you will just allow yourself to allow Christ to come to you, you too will understand-why the Spirit teaches us the Word of God.

9inches:
Mr. spiritual.

brocab:
Allow yourself to open up your heart to Jesus, go unto your room and pray to the Father in secret-pray for your salvation, pray the Lord will call you into His Kingdom.
Pray repent, that your Pope-Priest can not save you, pray repent. for the Catholic Church can not save you-pray repent, that tradition will never save you-pray repent, bowing to images of Mary, the saints they can't save you-pray repent, the rosaries can not save you, pray repent that your Mammon can not save you-pray repent you can not save yourself.
So take on this great opportunity, become One with Christ-allowing Christ to be One with you.
Pray repent-and stand beside me, and allow us to pray for your salvation, and for you to become a Holy Spirit filled born again Christian, as the scriptures tells us to do.
9 inches are you willing to follow Christ 100%, the answer to that is "Never" "And you would rather prefer to harden your heart even deeper and worship the goddess Mary, Dianna or Isis, denying Catholicism was built to only lead you to believe a man made tradition.
Most Catholic's would call this a pot of Gold-in your case-I call it a pot of fools-Good luck with that-you have no hope to be with Christ, and if you are expecting Mary to be waiting for you at the pearly gates-you will be waiting for eternity in hell.
Good bye....

bchi:
Please nlander I need you guys help.
I'm dating a catholic right now n am about to marry him, I'm scared of becoming a catholic member cos of my background ( the church am worshiping with), we believe in gift of the holy spirit and his presence in us.
I dislike their method of worship and their believe.
I don't know, how i will cope with him cos of his church...
...
... please mature advice.

quote author=9inches post=67166487]
Is that all? Can't you back that up with bible verses just like I did? It's your turn to tell me "Who are the church".
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All the questions you are re-asking have already been addressed. And don't just throw around verses as a following sentence after making up unrelated claims or statements. You have to tie the verses directly to your statement or explanation just the way I'm doing.

Also,I found out you only read my replies and say a different thing from what I posted, so you have to stay close to the mark.

Who are the Church
We the Gentiles who are now fellow citizens with the holy ones (Israelites, God's special people [Deut 7:6, Deut 14:2, Rom 9:4])
and members of the household of God (angels [Hebrews 12:22-23])
are the different members of the Body of Christ - the Church [Col 1:24, 1 Cor 12:27-28, Rom 12:4-5];
the Apostles and the prophets are the foundation (Rev 21:14);
Christ is the Head, or Cornerstone (or foundation stone or keystone) [Isaiah 28:16].

Key Points
(Ephesians 23-32) The church is Christ's bride.
(Ephesians 4:15) "Rather, living the truth in love, we should grow in every way into him who is the head (of the church), Christ, from whom the whole body (the church), joined and held together by every supporting ligament (different gifts and functions), with the proper functioning of each part, brings about the body’s (church's) growth and builds itself up in love.

Just so you understand it easier, the church already existed and have been teaching by oral tradition before the New Testament was written, not the other way round. The church through the apostles produced the NT scripture as part of her role in evangelization. The protestant mantra is to take the product of the church (NT) while disregarding and discrediting the church whose product they use. If the church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15), how then can someone or group of people exist outside the church and still claim to teach the truth? How absurd!

I am not arguing the inspiration of the bible. The argument is whether what the apostles wrote (NT scripture) and what they preached orally (oral tradition) carry the same weight. Maybe it hasn't crossed your mind that even the NT scripture was oral tradition (most of which has been taught orally by the apostles) before it was written down to become NT scripture. Therefore, the NT is a product of the oral tradition which protestants think they can do away with and still teach the truth.

Men sat around the table, argued among themselves endlessly and fought, to give you what you call bible today. It's different from the argument of God's inspiration of the scripture. The bible you posses now came from an earthly authority which represents God. Only in islam you can peddle such belief that a text came directly from God.

How can you pick up the bible which the successors of the apostles collected, sorted and canonized; and run with it without considering the successors of the apostles who collected, sorted and canonized it. Tell me, how can you claim a more accurate knowledge of that bible than those successors of the apostles?

Christ himself is the truth, and that Christ being the foundation stone (cornerstone, keystone) of the church (Ephesians 2:20), that makes the church the foundation of truth (1 Tim 1:15). It essentially means you can't find truth outside the church. Now, do you still wonder why there are over 33,000 denominations who are struggling with truth. Can you unabashedly say Christ recognizes these 33,000 churches? Can you say they are all one church, one Body with Christ as the Head? Think!

Again, the foundation of the church is the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone (foundation stone).

The cornerstone (or foundation stone or setting stone) is the first stone set in the construction of a masonry foundation, important since all other stones will be set in reference to this stone, thus determining the position of the entire structure - Wikipedia.

John 6:61 - "Does this shock you": https://www.catholic.com/index.php/magazine/print-edition/the-pillar-of-truth

@ bolded, simple research would have saved you this embarrassment you just caused yourself. Now I have quoted you and it stays here till internet eternity! The Church is considered to be a mother to its members because it is the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:21-33, Revelation 19:7, Galatians 4:26). Apostle Paul sees it for what it is - the Bride of Christ, the Mother from wh ose womb of grace each of us was born to a new life a life of Sonship. "I wanted you to know, how people ought to behave in God's family that is, in the Church of the living God, which holds the truth and keeps it safe" (I Tim. 3:15). So Yes, holy Mother Church proclaims, declares, explains and keeps the truth safe from the reach of the Enemy.
Keep reveling in your naivety and arrogance, attacking the Body of Christ,the pillar and foundation of truth; don't go and read church history from Christ to when you got your bible.

@bolded, "Do [you] just make empty assertions, back it up from the bible."

The Old testament scripture predates the church, while the church predates the New Testament scripture. However, Paul enjoined the Thessalonians to "stand firm and hold fast to the teachings" that were passed on to them, whether by letter (scripture) or by word of mouth (orally transmitted). See what you and your fellow protestants are missing? He emphasized on the oral tradition because that was the modus operandi of preaching the gospel (not OT). The scripture they had was the OT, hence the need to hold on to the oral teachings in combination with the scripture.

Jesus read only the Old Testament scripture; He and His disciples taught the New testament even before the first book of the testament was written by one of the apostles many years of oral teaching after his death.

explanation was very clear

Yale9:
The world christian population is about 2 billion.. there are hundreds of denominations out there.. about 1 billion (50%) of world christians are catholic. So on a global scale, a christian is presumed to be catholic. This thread is baseless unless we all want to agree that 50% of christians are doing it wrongly.. Nigerian Churches have a problem..

solite3:
you didn't back up your claims, you claimed angels and old testament saints are part the church it shows your deficient knowledge in scriptural truth.

The church are simply those that bought by the blood of Christ and are bornagain.

Question: "What is the church?"

Answer: Many people today understand the church as a building. This is not a biblical understanding of the church. The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of “church” is not that of a building, but of people. It is ironic that when you ask people what church they attend, they usually identify a building. Romans 16:5 says “… greet the church that is in their house.” Paul refers to the church in their house—not a church building, but a body of believers.

The church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head. Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” The body of Christ is made up of all believers in Jesus Christ from the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2) until Christ’s return. The body of Christ is comprised of two aspects:

1) The universal church consists of all those who have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Corinthians 12:13). This verse says that anyone who believes is part of the body of Christ and has received the Spirit of Christ as evidence. The universal church of God is all those who have received salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

2) The local church is described in Galatians 1:1-2: “Paul, an apostle … and all the brothers with me, to the churches in Galatia.” Here we see that in the province of Galatia there were many churches—what we call local churches. The universal church is comprised of those who belong to Christ and who have trusted Him for salvation. These members of the universal church should seek fellowship and edification in a local church.

In summary, the church is not a building or a denomination. According to the Bible, the church is the body of Christ—all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation (John 3:16; 1 Corinthians 12:13). Local churches are gatherings of members of the universal church. The local church is where the members of the universal church can fully apply the “body” principles of 1 Corinthians chapter 12: encouraging, teaching, and building one another up in the knowledge and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

you are not paying enough attention

The church was not teaching oral traditions, oral tradition is not a teaching.

Before the church was even established the scripture was already in existence. The church is a product of scripture.

I can see you want to turn it around, I m not talking about the new testament but the old testament which existed before the church and was the highest authority that even the teachings of Paul were scrutinized. Don't pretend only the new testament is scripture. The old testament set the template how the new testament should be viewed. The old testament and new testament has same authority

Who gave you the new testament scripture God or the church?

I get your confusion, you think what the apostles teach are more than what they wrote down,
Nope, how did I know

2 Corinthians 10:11 Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.

What does this mean?
It mean their letter has the same authority as when they are present
Their letters completely describes everything about them.

1 Corinthians 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

The apostle himself warn Christians not to go beyond scripture do you agree with him?

which men represent God? The bible is God's inspired words and will even judge those men you call earthly authority

Those men you rightly called are earthly authority but the scripture is heavenly authority which is higher and which do you thinks we should obey?
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


God is no respecter of persons

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

God has no favourite

consider them as how? Yes I appreciate their effort but God's hand was in it that was why men couldn't corrupt it.
I have the same Spirit Jesus, peter and all the other apostles have so I have their knowledge.

Apostles has no successors, anyone claim that is a liar. Can you claim more accurate knowledge than God's Spirit?

are you Christ to say he doesn't recognise those churches.

You claim your church is the universal body of Christ? Are you serious? This is an unholy joke you need God's mercy.
The church are those that are born again not a denomination like catholism.
Is your church following the teachings of Christ? Christ is not the foundation of catholic church.
Roman catholic church is the devils church.

9inches:
click ^ here

you yourself has said it all old testament predates the church
Whether old or new Scripture is Scripture, they have same authority and the church is under it.

Still you have not proved from scriptures that there is a mother church. Paste verse in ful

2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and[b] hold the traditions which ye have been taught[/b], whether by word, or by epistle
@ coloured, epistle was used in singular meaning Paul was relating what he taught them by words or by that single epistle not all the epistles. Obviously, a single epistle do not contain the whole teaching.

It is easy to twist a single verse
What are those traditions? They are the teachings of the apostles and since
and since the apostle said we shouldn't go beyond scripture it means those tradition are written down.

The bible itself contains these traditions.

brocab:
All in all, I am starting to count my lost'es with Nairaland every time I have written lately I have been refused entry and my post won't even make it on air, if there's been any complaints, then the complaints will be over the Word of God, and I should at least be informed..
I was writing with another Christian site last night, it shows how much Nairaland site makes a difference in Christ, I have changed, I am sceptic when addressing with other Christians, I now put up my defence mode, there's to many religions claiming to be somebody, but never seem to understand the truth.
I am even sceptic about people claiming to be born again believers, many of them were told they are saved, after they said the salvation prayer, and yet it is those many that are still walking around without change, their claims aren't any different to the world-by their fruit we will know them, religion claiming to know Christ and speaking bits and pieces of the bible, doesn't prove they are saved.
I found this behaviour not only with religion, but those that claimed to be Born again-or religion born into any Church, always learning and never coming to knowledge of the truth, and have never been set free-are people without the Spirit of the Lord.
Other religions don't test the Word-but Holy Spirit filled believers, test everything concerning the Word, tradition is tested through the Word, Paul's teaching on tradition is tested, everything is based on the Word of God, prophesies are tested, dreams and visions are tested, everything we believe in Christ is tested.
Yet we are told to run our race with our eyes focused on Christ: and to do that, we need to stay focus in Christ, and to do that, we need to test ourselves in the Word of God.
In our fast-paced, attention-grabbing world, it is easy to get caught up in the daily grind, get distracted, and lose sight of our true purpose in life—the worship and love of God {Matthew 22:37}
At least on this site, even through we don't agree on everything, and we are preaching what we are taught, by either the Holy Spirit teaches us, or you are taught by another spirit, most of us are here to correct all disputes with the Word of God.

brocab:
All in all, I am starting to count my lost'es with Nairaland every time I have written lately I have been refused entry and my post won't even make it on air, if there's been any complaints, then the complaints will be over the Word of God, and I should at least be informed..
I was writing with another Christian site last night, it shows how much Nairaland site makes a difference in Christ, I have changed, I am sceptic when addressing with other Christians, I now put up my defence mode, there's to many religions claiming to be somebody, but never seem to understand the truth.
I am even sceptic about people claiming to be born again believers, many of them were told they are saved, after they said the salvation prayer, and yet it is those many that are still walking around without change, their claims aren't any different to the world-by their fruit we will know them, religion claiming to know Christ and speaking bits and pieces of the bible, doesn't prove they are saved.
I found this behaviour not only with religion, but those that claimed to be Born again-or religion born into any Church, always learning and never coming to knowledge of the truth, and have never been set free-are people without the Spirit of the Lord.
Other religions don't test the Word-but Holy Spirit filled believers, test everything concerning the Word, tradition is tested through the Word, Paul's teaching on tradition is tested, everything is based on the Word of God, prophesies are tested, dreams and visions are tested, everything we believe in Christ is tested.
Yet we are told to run our race with our eyes focused on Christ: and to do that, we need to stay focus in Christ, and to do that, we need to test ourselves in the Word of God.
In our fast-paced, attention-grabbing world, it is easy to get caught up in the daily grind, get distracted, and lose sight of our true purpose in life—the worship and love of God {Matthew 22:37}
At least on this site, even through we don't agree on everything, and we are preaching what we are taught, by either the Holy Spirit teaches us, or you are taught by another spirit, most of us are here to correct all disputes with the Word of God.

solite3:
you have said it all, men do not love or desire the truth

Your efforts are not in vain. You might have touch one or two souls that read your posts

solite3:
you have said it all

Yale9:
If the biggest Christian Church in Nigeria, and every corner of the world (Catholic Church), has a problem, then christianity has a problem.. a church that is thousands of years old?.. and has ushered in everything known to christianity? Nigerians may just be Daft and not just lazy, to believe that the only christians who are getting it right are the young and shallow minorities who think they are protesting against the catholic church, but in reality protesting against Christianity.

Yale9:
Many Nigerians are just too confused cos they've been brainwashed by pastors who want to play in the "small league" and need followers at all cost. The catholic church seems to be the church to beat, both in Nigeria and worldwide. A non-catholic Nigerian lady will ordinarily have a problem marrying a catholic Nigerian man, but the same lady will jump at an opportunity to marry cristiano ronaldo, messi, or iniesta or even alexis sanchez who are all catholic.

brocab:
You love the Catholic Church 'does this qualify you to be a practice Catholic, or someone that declares Catholic?
A Church building that is a 1000 years old, is just a building, bragging about such claims is pointless.